0:00  
Are you being spiritually attacked, or is it something in your head? We're gonna talk about that today on the Why to Christians podcast. The

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answer is yes. Don't wait another minute. Call the professionals, Ghostbusters. We're ready to believe you.

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Hey, welcome to the show. My name is Mark Dickey. I host the afternoon show on the Bridge Radio station, my co-hosts are Pastor Burt and Pastor Josh. How you guys doing today?

0:24  
Doing great.

0:25  
Yeah, doing great. Yeah, all right, guys. We got a question from a listener, and you can always suggest future episodes by emailing podcast at We Are The bridge.org And want to say, number one, hey Charlie. Charlie, thank you so much for writing in. Charlie asks, what is a spiritual attack, and how can we tell the difference between spiritual attacks and ourselves? I believe oftentimes people stamp spiritual attack when really it's us, not the enemy.

1:00  
Okay,

1:00  
that's a pretty good question. It's a

1:01  
very good question.

1:02  
It's a very.. there's definitely.. this is like, where it goes into superstitious Christian category. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, if something bad is happening in my life, it's got to be the enemy, it's got to be Satan doing something. He's up to something.

1:20  
Yeah,

1:21  
yeah. I

1:23  
think it's tough, right, because typically what we tend to do is either over spiritualize or under spiritualize,

1:32  
right,

1:32  
right, so what I mean by that is, like, there's no denying biblically that there is such thing as a devil and demons, and that there is a kingdom of darkness, or what have you, that's just too explicit in the text, the Gospels, all kinds of places, and so that's a reality, but the Bible also talks about personal responsibility choices, and so what tends to happen is people tend to pivot to one of two sides, where either nothing is a demon, nothing is spiritual, it's all me, it's all you, or everything is a demon, everything is spiritual, right? So I couldn't get a parking spot closer to the front of the grocery store, Dad gone devil, I knew I knew he was going to get me today, right? And so there is this weird tension, if I'm hearing right, that's the question that Charlie is asking, like, "Hey, how do we know when it is? What is.. am I understanding that right?

2:26  
Yeah, yeah, when.. when is it? When is it a spiritual attack? When is it just me kind of, kind of making that up in my head?

2:36  
Yeah, I don't.. and it's funny that we use that, that clear dichotomy line, like they're like almost as if there is like a clear line, like this is when we switch over to demon attack. This is, yeah, we switch out, but we don't. I don't think we see that picture in the scripture at all. I think we see in the scripture that there are two kingdoms who are at war and who are, who are, who are who are constantly through what we experience through what we through what happens in life using those experiences sometimes to either encourage us towards the Lord or discourage us in the Lord, and I think you find that just in a few bunch of places, Ephesians, I could think of

3:19  
chapter two is explicit on that.

3:20  
Yeah, go ahead. Oh, no, no, yeah, no.

3:24  
Like, that's you've got this moment in Ephesians two, where Paul is talking to his audience, who are Christians, about their life before they were in the Lord. He says it's starting in verse 20 says, and you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which He once walked, following the course of this world, and listen to this, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience, among whom we all want to live in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the flesh and the mind, and we're by nature children of wrath like the rest of mankind. So what's presented in this passage is that essentially there's this - I've heard people call it an unholy trinity, that's not right, but there's basically three factors working against God in creation right now. There's the world, the flesh, and the devil. Right, so the world, and not the world in the sense of like God so loved the world like mankind, but the world in the sense of humanity united in rebellion against God. There's the flesh where there are sarks, it doesn't mean that the body is inherently bad. This is a term that's used to describe how we all have a sinful nature. We're all born with what's called original sin, and we are born inclined to rebel against God, that would be the flesh, and then the devil, to which Paul says he was at work in everybody who is against God. So you see these three things working in tandem, and I like to just point that out as well, because with this idea of everything is spiritual or nothing is spiritual, I would maybe make the case based on the passages like this: everything is spiritual, but maybe not in the way that you think, so like there, there can be a spiritual component to every kind of human choice. It, but it doesn't absolve us of human responsibility. Does that make sense?

5:04  
Okay. Yeah,

5:06  
yeah. I think I can think of a few ways that that kind of like shows up in our lives, and a few ways that we're shown that in scripture. Some of them are in this, in temptation to sin, to which shows up in a very practical, I have a choice to make. Am I going to steal or not? And that seems such a simple, like, real earthly. It's me, it's my heart. But, but in scripture, you find that Judas, his heart is drawn by Satan to take from, to take from the pot, right, to lead, lead to even speak to that woman and say, hey, why don't we take this jewel that she's spending and like use it for the poor, but his intention was always to seal, so you have this real earthly choice made by human that's led or undergirded by this this temptation, yes, drive from Satan.

5:56  
Yeah, I think that's important to realize too, like I really want to run with that a little bit, because again, we think of, we think of the presence of the demonic as rare or fringe, right here in America. We tend to believe if we lean on the camp that's sort of under spiritualizes, we tend to think that, you know, demons exist only in places where people don't have iPhones, right? But the biblical picture is a lot more extensive than that. The temptation against God is very, very tied to spiritual components, much more often than perhaps we would give it credit. So, for instance, like he just mentioned Judas, there, that's a great example, but it's not just Judas, like you can find if you're going through the book of James, for instance, when James is talking about humility and pride, he makes this line in James 314 He says, this is not the wisdom that comes from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. Okay, so pride can be demonic. You can go to Second Corinthians two, where Paul's talking about forgiving people, and he says, you know, anything you forgive, I also forgive in order that Satan might not outwit us if we're not unaware of his schemes. So, unforgiveness can be demonic. First Corinthians seven five, you've got Paul, where he's talking about people who are married taking a season of abstinence to dedicate themselves to prayer, but that being mutual consent, and then he says this line in verse five, he says, but make sure that you guys get back together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self control. Okay, so sexual temptation can be demonic, and so, like, there's like these common life things that I think the New Testament. Oh gosh, wait, yeah, you know, you please. I

7:44  
feel like you were gonna go there, Adonais and Sapphira. Yeah,

7:47  
yeah,

7:48  
yeah. I mean, you have this very clear picture where Peter says, like, hey, why did you allow Satan to come into your heart? Yeah, to cause you to sin against the Holy Spirit. And when you look at that whole picture, it's this:

8:00  
they were lying.

8:01  
Yeah,

8:02  
yeah,

8:02  
a simple lie, wanting to present yourself in a certain light to the church. I mean, wanting to get power and influence, all of that is driven. I mean, yeah, it's like choices that lead to this pushing away, this moving away from what God would want.

8:21  
Yeah. Oh, dude, I'll give you another one. So Paul in First Timothy, when he's talking about people who are embracing false teaching and doctrine, so we're talking about belief systems, yeah, right. And he says this. He says he calls them people devoting themselves to the deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, these people who are delineating from orthodox, like that's what I mean by that, as like traditional staples of Christianity, not orthodox, in sense of like a religious movement, like Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, but like these things make theology Christian. Okay, and Paul goes, yeah, like when people are diverting away from that, that source is demonic, and so the temptation that I think a lot of us face is to be like, oh shoot, well, if there's a demonic connection to it, that means I don't have a responsibility, and the New Testament doesn't treat it that way, but we would be wrong to remove the spiritual components, so back to the question, like, you know, how do we know if something's a spiritual attack? I would argue things that draw you away from Christ are spiritual attacks. Absolutely, I just, period. But that doesn't mean that you don't have a choice to make. So, it's not the devil made you do every sin that you've committed, but he can absolutely, and he, they can absolutely partner with you in your sin, like I like to use the illustration of gasoline on a campfire, right? Like, so, like, you know, the campfire is burning, but if you pour, you know, gasoline on it, burn a lot hotter, a lot brighter, right. Well, I think when it comes to partnership with the demonic, your sin is that campfire, your flesh, your fallen. This is that campfire, it's already burning, but, but the enemy may partner with it to cause it to have more of a flame, and I think that's really, really common.

10:07  
Have you guys heard that, that phrase, like losing the race before you even begin? No, kind of, the idea is where, if you have the wrong mindset towards something like, oh, I'm not gonna win, I'm not gonna win, like, where you've kind of already decided in your head the thing that's about to happen is gonna go a certain way, you've kind of already lost, and I feel like I get that a lot from Christians as well, where they're going, something good is happening in their life, or I've heard them say, "Oh, the devil's after me again, you know, and it's almost like this, this state of like, "Yep, nothing's going right, and it's just going to continue not going right, where it's like that might not actually be like literally the devil coming after you, but that, like, he's already done his work, and you're just kind of letting him continue to just keep you down.

11:10  
Yeah, I think, I think so. I think I've seen Christians do something, yeah, similar, where it's like this idea of, oh, things are going great, then I should expect the devil to attack me.

11:21  
Yeah, and

11:22  
kind of like ruin my day. Yeah, I think that has a too high of a view of Satan's power and too low of review of Christ's dominance, really his authority, his rule over all things. And so I think a healthy way, a godly way to look at it is that Christ literally rules over those things that Satan would, would, would even bring against you. Yeah, and so what, what the devil would mean for evil, Christ's intention and his will is always to use that for your own good, so even in the tearing down of what you have, of things being stripped away from you, and it just seems like so spiritual, like, wow, like I didn't do anything wrong, like I didn't make any bad choices, I didn't sin. How is all this stuff being taken away from me? The right mindset is to God be the glory that Christ will bring out good out of this too. Yeah,

12:20  
yeah, let me run with that a little bit more, too, because I think that is spot on. So, okay, biblically speaking, there is the reality of the demonic, the adversary is not to be taken lightly, right? So, for instance, First Peter five eight, Peter says, your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion. Okay, again, the illustration there is he's commonly around, like probably like he's like, like the enemy is around. Okay, lions are dangerous, right? Like, they, they, they kill people, like, if you know, if given the opportunity, like,

12:59  
yeah.

12:59  
All right, so real, at the same time, there's this passage in Luke 22 where Jesus at the Last Supper, it's Luke 2031 where he looks at Peter and he says, Simon, Satan has requested to sift you as wheat. Okay, he's requested to take you up, but I've prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. Okay, so what do we learn? Like, well, hold on, Satan is requesting of God somehow. Yes, like, are they are they in cahoots? No, clearly that's not the case. Are they enemies? Yes, absolutely. And yet God is enough, God, that according to passages like this, Satan can only go so far, so yes, he is a lion, but he's a lion on a chain. Now this is important, because what this means, and I really, I'm saying this up to just support your point, Josh. What this means is that you are never out of the domain or power of Christ, so for the person who, like, who's going through the day, and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I know the devil's gonna try and ruin my day. Well, maybe he will be allowed to try to ruin your day, but you better believe that Christ is going to glorify himself and make you more like him through whatever you encounter, like there's never a lapse in God's care for you as a believer because of the presence of the demonic, and that's not to say there isn't a place for rebuking, and there's not a place for spiritual warfare, of course there is, but, but you know, take a breath of joy in realizing that God sees you, He still, he's always your shield, and there's never space in his care for you.

14:45  
Yeah, one of the ways I think I said is like suffering itself may not always be a spiritual attack, but suffering can become a place where Satan attacks, and so it's this, you have this picture of Paul, even. Where he's given a stone in the flesh, Corinthians 12, right? He's suffering, and here is what Satan means for harm. God uses it to make him more humble and more dependent, and to see how God, God's grace works in him and glorifies God. And so you, you have this picture where the enemy comes in to bring suffering, but God, through His power, can take even that and produce God-glorifying, transforming you, and shaping the Christian to be more like Jesus through it. So, there's not a point where a Christian can say, 'Man, the devil is one. Yeah, like, man, I've lost here as long as Christ lives. Yes, that's not possible. If

15:45  
I could run one other, I mean, that's great. If I ever, one other thing with this question, I would just want to clarify, because sometimes what happens, like, we get this place of, like, is it the devil or is it, you know, human choice, or what have you. What can happen is our spirituality can turn into an episode of Scooby Doo, and what I mean by that is that we treat like it's a mystery to be solved.

16:09  
Yeah,

16:09  
right. So, like, okay, like, so is it people or is it the devil? And I got to figure out, so I know how to deal with it, right? And I look, I'm somebody I believe in the power of confession and prayer and freedom ministry, and all these - we practice these things in our church, where we actively do spiritual warfare. So, I believe in this stuff. At the same time, though, I don't want our view of God to be so small that we think, unless I solve the equation, things aren't going to be okay, so I would just take it back to most famous book in the Bible on suffer. Well, it's the only book that's purely on suffering, but like it's book of Job, right? Job opens with this back and forth between God and Satan behind the scenes in heaven about the fate of Job, right,

17:05  
about lamentations,

17:06  
lamentations about pain, but yeah, okay, fair enough, Mark. All right, but anyway, so you've got this back and forth where we, the readers, are told up front there's this spiritual battle taking place right in Job's suffering. For the rest of the book, there's no point where he asks, was this Satan or was this God? Like, it never happens in the source of his suffering. He's never like, okay, there's something I hear rebuke right now. Is there something that's going on that I'm not seeing? Do I need to fast a little bit harder? In fact, the whole point of the book is like you're not gonna understand stuff, that is the point of job. Like every person who tries to corner the market on what's going on with Job in Job is wrong,

17:53  
huh?

17:54  
Okay, so like the point of Job is in our response, don't forsake God. That's like God will be good no matter what. Walk with him, and he's going to allow things that are bigger than your pay grade, like when God shows up at the end of the book, and and you would expect him to be with Job. When Job's, you know, why did you let this happen to me? You would expect God, you're like, well, actually, there's this thing where the devil was saying that, you know, he could destroy you, and God never gives that to

18:19  
him. He

18:20  
straight up, I'm sorry. Where were you when I told the city to stop going where it is? Where were you when I made the mountains? Where were you? Like, meaning, hey, there's all kinds of stuff that you're not going to understand, but I'll still be good, right? Okay, I bring this up because the response of us is not to solve the mystery. The response of us is faithfulness. Lord, I'm going to walk with you no matter what. Okay, and maybe in this process, what I do is I go to some brothers and sisters for prayer. Maybe in this process what I do is I, I get with a trusted church leader, and we talk through, is you know, is this an area like an open door to sin or demonic attack in my life, and we go through confession and rebuke, and what have you. Okay, regardless, the thing that you can guarantee without knowing the answer to the mystery is your proper response is to pursue Christ.

19:18  
That's good. That's really good. No matter what, cling to Jesus. Yeah,

19:25  
sounds like a pretty simple answer. Well, Charlie, thanks again for writing in, and hopefully we're able to answer your question about spiritual attack. Is it me? Is it Satan? What is it? If you want to be like Charlie, it'd be mentioned in the episode, and you can submit your own questions by emailing them to podcast at We Are The bridge.org or commenting them in the comments below. Thanks for watching.

19:53  
Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai