Speaker 1 0:00 So, if you clicked on this episode, you might have some questions about whether or not God hates you. That's the topic of today's episode on the Why Do Christians podcast. Hey, welcome to the show. My name is Mark Dickey. I host the afternoon show on the Bridge Radio Station. My co-hosts are two pastor friends of mine, Pastor Burt and Pastor Josh, guys, have you ever felt like God is disappointed in you? Maybe He even hates you. Speaker 2 0:27 Yeah, man, absolutely. I remember years ago when our church was getting started and things were going really, really difficult to make that happen, and I just wondered, like, God, like, are you just like secretly mad at me? Do you feel like I'm not doing things well? Do you like resent me in some way? Yeah, Speaker 3 0:46 yeah, yeah. I would say the same thing. I think when life gets really difficult out of nowhere, and like, well, I've been doing everything right. I think loss of family, finances have changed, just a lot of things that seem to stack up. You start to really go back to God and say, okay, what did I do to like deserve this? Speaker 1 1:08 Right, right. That makes me think of like the whole, if God is real, why do good things happen to bad people, and am I a bad person? Because bad things are, you know, like there's this desire, this human, this human natural Kevin from The Office. There is this, this feeling in all of us that there should be, oh, well, let's call it karma, because that's what the world calls it. If you're a good person, good things happen. Yeah, which is not taught in the Bible, but, but we feel like that's how it should be. That's how the world should be ordered. Speaker 2 1:49 Yeah, which is interesting too, because I think our definition of that tends to be skewed, right? But the scriptures are abundantly clear that that God doesn't operate that way. I'm thinking about, like, for instance, Jesus explicitly teaching in Matthew 545 where he says in the Sermon on Mount, like, that God makes the rain fall on the righteous and the wicked, or the just and unjust. The idea is that God, and actually his context there is talking about, hey, do well by those who don't do well by you, right? And so, and he says, like, because if you do that, you'll be like your heavenly Father, who blesses the good and the bad, like he's, he's kind, he is in, he's caring for creation of all, because I think part of it is also just, you know, if God, and it's also the Psalms, like, if God were to deal with us according to what our sins deserve, who would ever survive that, like, who could stand, Speaker 3 2:40 yeah, yeah, yeah, and I like to, that's a, that's a really good point, but one of the things I like to think, where I start messing up is, I, I confuse punishment with discipline, and so I tend to think that, oh, I'm receiving punishment because I didn't do good enough, I didn't follow the right steps, you know, everything the Bible says is, "yo, I should have been a, b, and c, and that's not how the scriptures pointed, is that God uses some of these hard and difficult times as discipline to shape and to form us, and to remove sin out of our hearts, to make us even more dependent upon Him, and it's not meant as punishment, it's meant really to display his great love for us, that in and through these hard experiences he's using them to show us how much he loves us and to draw us near to him. Speaker 2 3:32 Okay, but can I roll with that for a second? Here, I would love to just ask the two of you guys. I think you know, if you've been a Christian for a while, conceptually, you know this, right? So, for instance, like Hebrews 12 seven, it says exactly what you just said there. Joshua says, "Endure hardship as discipline, because God is treating you as His own children. And what father doesn't discipline his own children? So there's something about suffering that forms us in a way that prepares us for eternity to be more like God. Like suffering is a fire through which we are all formed, and if Jesus didn't suffer, I mean, if Jesus suffered, we should expect to suffer, right? Okay, that's not my question. My question is, because I think so many of us know that. Why is it? It still feels like us time and time again, that maybe he's mad at us, or maybe we're on the outs. Like, what is it that we're.. is it unbelief? Is it immaturity? But I've known so many, and I've been in that spot myself, where it's like, okay, I know what's true, and yet I still feel like you guys have thoughts on that. Speaker 1 4:31 I mean, I try to keep in the front of my mind at all times, not just in, you know, a conversation like this, but everywhere I go with my faith that the way the world is is not how God intended it to be, that the world was made perfect, and then sin entered the world, and everything kind of fell apart, and so when I'm faced with a difficult situation, when bad things happen to me, I'm not immediately blaming God. For it, just like, well, bad things happen here, and I was just.. that's just what happens, like, I feel like we should maybe disassociate negative things from being brought by Speaker 2 5:14 God. Okay, and I would agree with that 100% I think that's a good, like, baseline framework for it, but let's dial it in a little bit more. Maybe somebody's listening to this, and it's not so much that, hey, they've gone through a tragedy, it's that their life is just not where they want it to be. Maybe they want, they want to be married by now, they don't have a spouse, they want to have kids, they've been dreaming of this career, this opportunity, and it seems like God is blessing everybody but them. What do you say to that? Like, would you look at me? Yeah, God probably holding out some good things for me. Yeah, he might hit you. What would you say to that, Pastor Josh? Speaker 3 5:54 Yeah, I would say, man, I think for me, it goes back to Christ on the cross, that's where I would go with it, and, and say that Christ was fully and totally rejected, so that I would never have to have that particular worry or fear, that Speaker 2 6:18 you mean, forget from God, right Speaker 3 6:20 from from God of being fully rejected or turned aside that He does not love me or has good intentions for me, and so I guess what I'm, what I'm trying to say is, um, for that person I would say what Christ has done on the cross is that He took that all of the wrath that we absolutely deserve for God to say no. I don't want to bless you. No, I don't want to be with you. That Christ takes that judgment, so that we are never on that end of that judgment, Speaker 2 6:54 so that can never be a possibility for a believer, because they've received what Christ has done for them. Speaker 3 6:57 Absolutely. Speaker 2 6:58 Okay, Speaker 3 6:59 that's where I would go with that. Yeah, man, you can think of a few verses. What I think is Romans eight says, what then shall we say? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not, he who did not spare his son, but gave him up for us, how will he not with him graciously all Speaker 2 7:16 things, Speaker 3 7:17 all things. Speaker 2 7:17 Yeah, Speaker 3 7:18 yeah, Speaker 2 7:20 man, I think about also, I'm sorry, Marcus. I know you're the host of the show, and so I'm just like spitting. Yeah, sorry, I was thinking about new Speaker 1 7:26 episode. Why does Bert hate me? Yeah, Speaker 2 7:28 spam the comments, make some guesses. No, anyway, you know, I think about like this. There's okay, I was watching a documentary show, like something, just I don't know, a little Burt trivia. You guys know this, but I don't think I've ever talked about this on the show. I love and adore professional wrestling, like I love, I love professional wrestling. Do with that what you will, it is a, I must watch it two, three times a week, like it is my safe, happy place, like I just.. I, okay, I was watching a documentary on a guy, and I won't say which one, who was a wrestler in the 80s, right, and he was talking about, like, you know, his career didn't go the way that he wanted it to go, and so his habitual thing, over and over again, was his joke that, oh God, got me again, right, like that, like him in life, he had made terrible decisions in terms of whether that be drug abuse, alcohol, alcoholism, irresponsibility, but for him, so many times it was his choices, and then when they would invariably blow up, it was because God was mad at him, and I do think when we talk to this idea of does God hate me. There are a number of ways to answer that question, because there are a number of circumstances, like any number of circumstances, right. And so, as we talk this idea of like, no, we're never on the outs with God through Christ, and that's absolutely true. But we also have to recognize that for some, maybe the answer, you know, why is my life going this way? Okay, well, you know, Galatians, I think it is, says that God is not mocked, and a person reaps what they sow. So, is there also a point in this where God, in His love for us, says, okay, in order for me to form you, your decisions must matter, and so I'm going to let this fall apart, I'm going to let this blow up in your face, so that ultimately you will grow as a human being. I think we can't remove that as another possibility for why things might go the way that they go. Speaker 3 9:28 Yeah, I mean, that's right. Not every suffering or hardship is God, I would say is from God to to discipline us. I think I hear what you're saying is that it is most of the times we make choices and they're bad choices and we reap bad responses, but in that we have this wonderful loving God who is always willing to give us mercy and grace where we absolutely don't deserve, overwhelmingly so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's where I think um. Where we get right back to the answer that that no, even when you are totally wrong and you have sinned, yet still there, just there's just this overwhelming amount of mercy and grace available to you. At no point, at no point is God saying hide from me, right? At no point is he, at no point is shame, guilt, or fear that the full picture of those things, when you feel them, if you, if you're responding to them correctly, should be drawing you to Christ, because that's his intention, to even use all of the things we experience in life to bring us closer to him, never kind of, never push us away, so to say that God hates you. I mean, you would say Speaker 2 10:46 what He's revealed, right? Speaker 3 10:47 Yeah, the guy who's running towards you with his arms open to hug you and say mercy, you're looking at him saying he hates me. Okay, it doesn't line up. Yeah, Speaker 1 10:56 yeah, it's my show, Bert. No small group leader in me is just coming out right now. The you said the word draw, draw near to me, and I was, I was reminded of James four eight, which says draw near to God and He will draw near to you, and and there's more as well, but simply like if you're just letting God stay out here, oh, God hates me, and like, not addressing that, yeah, not even continuing the dialog, and maybe you don't think that you can have a dialog with God. Speaker 2 11:34 Well, see, yeah, that's okay, that's the other thing that's kind of on my mind. I would just want to maybe throw out there, maybe we've got somebody right now who's listening, watching, and where they are in life is they would say they don't have a relationship with God. Maybe they grew up in church, maybe they didn't, maybe they're exploring this idea of faith, but one of the things that is keeping them at arm's length, or however far away, is shame. And, okay, you don't know what I've done, God must hate me because I've done this, because I've done that. I wouldn't blame him if he hated me. What would you say to that person? Speaker 3 12:06 I would think of First Timothy, and what Paul says, that this saying is true and trustworthy, that Christ came into the world to save sinners. I would say sinners, yeah, yep, not the righteous, Speaker 3 12:18 not the righteous, not those who profess their right, not those, but those who absolutely think that, oh, God has all the right reasons to hate me, and He would be legitimate if He did. But the story is that God, while we were yet sinners, while we were still weak, sent Christ Jesus to die on a cross for us, and so then the picture is no, out of great love and an overwhelming amount of mercy and grace. He comes to those who would, who do feel weak, who do feel incapable of an undeserving to say no. I will pour out on you undeserving love and undeserving mercy. Yeah, so that's what I would say. Yeah, absolutely. In a sense, 100% true, you don't deserve it. You are wicked, we all are, but also absolutely true is God, and His mercy has poured out on us what we don't deserve. Speaker 2 13:12 So the invitation is there for you, no matter where you are, that that you know essentially Christ stands with His hand outstretched to you, saying, 'Come to me. I want to forgive your sin. I want to save you. Only come to me, right? And that's why repentance is so important, turning from your sin, the stuff that's been destroying you, so that He can forgive. But understand, like, His forgiveness of you is not something that you earn. Forgiveness is letting go of a debt, right? Like, when we forgive somebody, they owed us a thought, consideration, treatment, whatever, and we choose not to demand that they give that. When we talk about the forgiveness of Christ, it's not 'I clean myself up so that He'll receive me. It's 'I go to Him so He can clean me up, right? Speaker 3 13:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. I think of a few verses for anyone still struggling. I think of Luke 12 that says, Fear not, little flock, it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom, like God's joy is that you would be with Him and be a part of His kingdom. Whoa, Speaker 2 14:14 okay, so that's huge. That means, how many people, they think, like, all right, God, God loves me, but he doesn't like me, right? Like, he loves me because he's God, and he's supposed, and God loves everybody, so he definitely loves me too, you know, because I'm I'm part of the consensus of everybody. But if God were to look at just me one on one, he would be rolling his eyes. Some people feel that way, where it's like, okay, you know, I have given God yet again reason, he's got to be sick of this with me right now, he's got to be sick of me right now, and that verse you just said there was that it's his great joy, meaning that God delights in saving you. Yeah, He enjoys saving you. Think on that, dude. Speaker 3 14:52 Yeah, think of Luke, I think 15, where it says more joy in heaven when one sinner repents than over 99 right? Just persons who need not repentance, and you would, in context, we're talking about salvation coming to Christ Jesus, but that's also a continuous idea. I think I think we'll find that in First Timothy one, where it's like Paul talks about the gospel of the blessed, like the happy God, that God is full of delight when people are repenting and turning to Him through Christ Jesus, like that when, because He wants Speaker 2 15:30 to save, Speaker 3 15:30 right? Speaker 2 15:31 Yeah, yeah, Speaker 3 15:31 yeah. And so He delights. So sometimes we're so brokenhearted, like, yeah, like, oh, He doesn't like me, He's sick, like, look at how much sin I am, and we kind of put our head down, almost as if God, like, has to work up love, like, Speaker 2 15:42 wow, like, you know, yeah, Speaker 3 15:44 naturally he hates, and he's angry, but, but if I just do things right, then I can work up his love, and it's the actual opposite, where God says he's full of delight, like he's happy when sinners are approaching him through Christ, yeah, to Speaker 2 15:58 me, also, I think, might be helpful to make the distinction between God's hatred of sin and God's love of the person, Speaker 3 16:05 yeah, Speaker 2 16:06 right, like God absolutely hates wickedness, He absolutely hates sin, rebellion, corruption. These are why we want to get rid of these things, because ultimately God, who is good, sees them, says that they're bad, and we trust Him and believe him. Oh, this corrupts it, destroys, if not me, then those around me. And so the prospect of getting rid of sin is not a small one. At the same time, it is incredible to realize that God goes, I want to wash all that away, I want to not just bail you out but save you right. I want to just make it so that you know your record is clear, in the sense of like you get off the hook, but I actually want to, I want to wash you clean and make you into a new person, so that you're not where you were, Speaker 1 16:59 you know, and here at the Bridge, the radio station that I work for, I actually put together this video with our digital team explaining who Jesus is, and so if you know, you started this video thinking, okay, God must hate me, but now you're like, oh, it's, it's not quite like that, it's not quite as simple as that. I'd love to share this video with you. We keep these in the studio. If I'm smart, I'll just put it on in text underneath. But if you text the word Jesus to 855-887-8870 you'll get a video texted back. It's me. It's like seven minutes long. It explains basic, the basics, who Jesus is and what He has to do with with the universe, with my life and your life. So, text Jesus to that number. And if you have any other questions, maybe for future episodes, you can leave them in the comments or email them to podcast at We Are The bridge.org Thanks for watching. Transcribed by https://otter.ai