0:00  
So maybe you've prayed, maybe you are someone who does pray. Are you sure you're doing it right? What do we get wrong about prayer? It's the why to Christians podcast. Hey, welcome to the show. My name is Mark dickey. I host the afternoon show on the bridge radio station. My solo co host is the one and only pastor, Josh dupiche, Hey, Josh. Hey, Mark, do it good Bert is, well, he's doing his his his master stuff, his bertly things. And so I thought we would spend some time talking about prayer today, and we did almost a year ago. It's hard to believe it was that long ago. We did an episode on praying the Lord's Prayer. Yeah, and, you know, why? Why do we say the Our Father prayer? And I thought like that was such a good conversation. Let's continue it and just kind of talk about how we get prayer wrong?

1:03  
Yeah, yeah. I think I know, for me, growing up like prayer was a big part of church family thing. You know, you prayed at church, prayed at home, but, but, you know, as you grow up and kind of develop, you use you find out how hard it is to pray all the time, yeah, or as even as much being a Christian, I don't pray as much as I want to pray. And what I did was I regulated that to, oh, it's because I don't have the time. Oh, I just need more discipline or some other reason. And what I found was none of those reasons. Is what Jesus gives us. Why? Like, we don't pray? Yeah, none of them at all. And and so I think the first thing we get wrong is that we are chalking The reason up why we don't pray to discipline or time when it's really like a gospel issue. Okay, it's really like a theology issue, but what we believe about ourselves and what we believe about God are not lining up for us, and that if they did, if we really believed what Jesus said, we would pray entirely, much more than we do. So what

2:13  
I'm hearing you say, it's not about, oh, I just don't have time. I don't have time to just spend an hour each morning in prayer. Yeah, it's not that you're saying. There's a deeper issue, yeah, fundamentally, like with the way we believe and

2:28  
trust in God, absolutely. Yeah. And one of the places I would point to for that would be Luke, 18, and the first few verses, I think verses one of 12, Jesus's main point is that we should always pray and never lose heart. He literally, this is the easiest text, because he tells you the main point, and here's my point, so I'm taking it. And then in the story, he gives about it is a widow who approaches a judge, and a widow is having all kinds of issues with people, and she goes to a judge who doesn't want to answer her. Now notice what he does in that story. We're the weird, not the weirdo weird. We're the widow in that story, right? Like, okay, we're the ones that are the weak ones in that story. So here he is trying to motivate us to pray. And he's saying, basically, you're seeing yourself wrong. You think you're strong, you think you're capable. But prayer, a life full of prayer, is for the weak. It's for the person who really sees themselves as having enemies, that they're powerless against, the fight, as having no ability on their own to overcome that. If you see yourself in this picture as that widow, then you'll understand that you need to judge. You need him to speak for you. You need him to attack your enemies and to crush them for you, because you have no power on your own. And so that's the picture Jesus uses, and it's so different than the pictures I'm used to, right? The pictures I'm used to, to motivate myself to pray is reading about people who pray a lot. I'm like, oh, man, I want to be like that guy. Like, I want to be like prayer and Jesus, like, no, see yourself as like the weakling, as unable, as incapable, as not having anything that you can do on your own.

4:16  
Yeah. So our art is a place that we get it wrong, sort of thinking, I don't want to use the word Genie, but like, Oh, I know what this what needs to happen in this situation. God, make this happen, you know, and treating him like he's just this being that. Oh, well, if I, if I just ask this thing of, God, he's just going to grant it, and you're coming at it with this perspective of, Oh, I know, I know how this needs, like you're you're not the weakling. You're coming in as the expert, as the expert, yeah, oh God, if you did this, if you just did this, then everything would be better. Would be better. Why doesn't God just topple all the enemies or all the bad people in the world? Yeah, it's like, well, maybe there's more

5:06  
to it, right? Because I I know, and I know what needs to be done, and the reality of it, right? Jesus, again, paints a different picture. In Matthew seven, he when he's talking about prayer, he's saying for us, to Matthew seven, I think verses seven to 11. He says, Ask, right? The idea of asking is you don't have right? So seek. And the very idea is you're looking, you don't know. And then knock. And that picture is a picture of, there's something hindering you. There's a door, and the way it's painted in the Greek, in the context is God is the only one who can open that door. Yeah, and so you're knocking asking him, Hey, can you let me into this? Can you bring me into this place that I need to be in? And so we do get this picture of we, we don't know, we don't have, we're incapable, and so you need to be deeply reliant on the Father always calling on Jesus. And actually, I think Romans 826, says that. It literally says that we don't know what to pray. And so here, so the Holy Spirit needs to make intercession for us, because we are utterly clueless.

6:18  
The wordless groans. One,

6:19  
yeah, so that, if that is the understanding and like the approach it, it that's meant to help you see, like your deep need and your deep dependence. But so I think also to tie to that as much. So I would kind of put it this way, we do have this in this gospel problem, right where we look at the cross and don't realize how much of bystanders we were in the story of God saving us, that we were weak against our enemies, and so we stood there while God saved but also on the other side of the gospel, we I don't think we understand how deeply near the Cross of Jesus and His resurrection has done for us, that we are totally brought in, so much so that, like he has become our father and we his children, there is absolutely No way that we can do anything aside or apart from him like he did. There's no such permission given like we you are 100% his child brought in and prayer is the way that we do that. Say, Father, I need you. I want you and not and I can't do this without you.

7:39  
Yeah, man, there's so many places to go with everything you just said, like, oh, man, can we take a detour really quick, backwards, I was gonna go the next thing. But that verse, the ask, seek, knock, yeah, it says knock and the door will be opened for you, right? Yeah. So, so God is gonna let us in, yeah, but we still have to, we still have to ask, yeah, is that the same as answering prayer? So how come the door will be open? Like, what

8:08  
do you think about that? Oh, man, so this, this is a good one, because, um, that those verses are commands. It's telling you, he's telling you to pray, right? And with them, and the right next verse are promises that if you ask, you'll get your answer if you're seeking your like he so he takes these commands and then puts a certainty of a promise that you will have a response to it right and then and then, so that that begs the question, how can we be So certain. How can we be so sure? And I think our answer is found there and someplace else. So first of all, I think when it comes to prayer, what we get wrong is we make it about us and what we want and that and and that will always trip us up. But if we take it and make what Jesus is saying about God and what He wants, then Jesus can always have that promise of I'll answer that prayer like see if it's father, I don't know, show me your will lead me into it. And when I'm hindered, open the door for me so that I would do exactly what you want me to do, head in the direction you want me to head in fulfill the task you want me to fulfill in. Here's what Jesus says, actually, in John 1413, he says, whatever you ask in my name, this, I will do that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in my name, this I will do. Here's how these two things line together. Okay. Jesus says, Pray, I promise you an answer. And then John 14, he says, whatever you ask in my name, whatever you ask in accordance to my will, to the Father's will, his next statement is, I will do it. That changes everything about prayer, because then. It no longer means that, hey, Father, I'm coming to you pursuing my own thing, and now I want you to do it like no father. And said, I'm coming to you, I'm pursuing your thing. And what Jesus is saying is, when you approach the father like that, he's basically saying, I'll stand up and I'll fulfill it, yeah, and I'll fulfill in such a way that glorifies the father, like in that's what we want in prayer, and that's what we get wrong, where it's like, God, look at my thing, do it. And like, why aren't you doing it?

10:33  
No, it's, it's Thy will be

10:35  
done, right? Yep, instead of, it's Father, I'm pursuing your thing, your will. And Jesus says, Then, then, almost in a strange way, like, step aside. I'll do it, and I'll do it in such a way that it glorifies the father, which I think for us, answers the question, Hey, how come God doesn't adjust? How come we don't get answers like we think we should? Yes. Why? Well, who's who's doing the answering. He's, if he's gonna do it, he's gonna do it his way. He's gonna do it in such a way that it's good, that it's God glorifying, that it's honoring to the Godhead, to the Son, to the spirit, like and so, yeah, it's, it's gonna look different than I would do it. I mean, I think of the Gospels, and when Jesus goes and does stuff, I'm like, Well, I wouldn't have said that, you know, and I wouldn't have done it that way, but he does it differently

11:25  
than us. Yeah, well, I mean, how many times I've looked back on my life and I became a Christian in high school, and in those high school years, all I wanted was to be a professional musician. I wanted to be on the big stage and tour the world. You know, I wanted that, and I genuinely can't remember if I ever prayed for that. I'm sure I probably did, like, God, let me, let me take your word, you know, right? Yeah, I can say all I want, but in my heart, I just wanted it for me. And I can say confidently, yeah, half my life later, man, I'm so glad. I'm so glad God didn't answer that desire of my heart the way I wanted it, the way that I wanted it, yeah, yeah,

12:17  
yeah, yeah, yeah. And the good news, right, is that Jesus answered it the way that is most glorifying to the Father, like and you, and you can have that assurance because he says you're asking, if you're seeking, if you're knocking, I will be the one Yeah. Like, thank

12:34  
God, yeah. And just closure for that story. In the last like, year or two, I've gotten this real peace from the Lord about I, every once in a while get to lead worship at church, yeah, and I just kind of got this, you know, inaudible message from God that says, Is it okay If I trust you with these 150 people? Yeah? Like, is that not good enough for you? Yeah, that that I'm putting into your hands, the the responsibility of helping lead this small group of people into my presence, and that has changed everything for me. It's like, I don't even like, it would be cool. It'd be cool to have, like, a big concert, or whatever. But like, you know what? Like, I can find joy in a prayer answered in a way I didn't expect, yeah, because that prayer is still answered absolutely,

13:33  
yeah, yeah, yeah, not the way I would have wanted, or you, but the way Christ wanted, yeah. Amen. Like, yeah, that's good. So all

13:43  
of my rock star dreams aside, that's, it's a little easier to come to a place of peace from a dream like that, a desire to be answered differently. But there's also really, really heavy prayers, you know, I've, I've prayed that God would heal me of my type one diabetes, because that it isn't helping anyone. Actually has helped me. It has refined me. And there I am answering my own question. But like, you know, there's people out there with with loved ones, where unexpected things happen, health, cancer, unexpected death and the desire for our loved ones and friends to just be to be around longer, like there's nothing evil about that, like there's Nothing you know, like so when, when somebody is praying, and I bet a lot of people, the one of the very first prayers they might pray is a prayer like that, yeah, you know, they're not. They don't consider themselves spiritual at all. But the moment they get that call that, hey, so and so was in a car accident, they start talking to God, yeah, and and, yeah. What do you. Do you say to that person,

15:01  
oh, man, that's a that's a hard place to be. I think when you see a need and it's not your own, it's for someone else, and you're you're crying to God to do something about it, and it appears that he's not doing anything about it. Well, I would, I would say a few things, if we were to just do big picture talk. First, it would be that God's providential work, in other words, his working out of his will in our lives doesn't always match what our preference is like what we think ought to happen. I think, I think we have a picture of what's good, and he has a different picture of what's good. And so sometimes we're in that position where God, like this looks like this is so clear, like, this would be the obvious good, right? And he's like, you, you have no idea. I think we yeah, we have no idea. And so in a sense, then we have to trust, as Jesus points out, that he is a good father, that he is good at being good. He is the only good, right? He knows how to do it well, in a way that, looking back one day, will go, yeah, I get that. I couldn't have got it in the moment, but I definitely got it now. I think of my my kids, you know, you take them to the doctor and they get a shot or something, and they're, like, screaming, you know, and they're begging me not to do it. I'm like, but I can't even explain to you how, like, I don't even know where to start this conversation, right, but I do know you kind of need to go through this right now, and your request for your good, I have to deny, like, right? And so some, sometimes I think it's that that we have to consider that, but, but I also think of Philippians four, and it's a popular one, like, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. But surrounding that context, Paul is talking to the church in the Philippians, or Paul is talking to the Philippians, and he's saying to them, Hey, I praise the Lord that now you're able, after some time has passed, to to to take care of me, to send gifts to help me, but then he says to them, but, but not that I'm talking about the gift, because I've learned whether I have or don't have whether I'm full or or I'm hungry. In other words, like I've I've learned in difficult contexts that I can abide in Christ like he is strengthening me to be in situations where what I'm asking for, I'm not getting what my needs are, and I'm bringing to Him in prayer, he's not immediately responding. So I think that's one of the biggest things in prayer. Is not just that, like we get what we want, but we align ourselves in such a way that we receive strength from Christ, we receive His encouragement so that we can be sustained in whatever position he's permitted for us at that time. So it's not just like God do this for me. It is definitely that God do this for me. Don't be afraid to ask. But if you don't, I know in me coming to you your will is to sustain me, to strengthen me, to keep me, and not only that, but also help me be satisfied in you, in whatever decision you're going to make, yeah, because ultimately, that's what you want when you pray, God, I want to hear your will, and I want to be satisfied with what you're doing, and that being enough for me, and that's not natural you. You have to find that in prayer

18:52  
or else, yeah. So, I mean, Scripture tells us to pray without ceasing, yeah. So, and at least the way I've always internalize that is, I can ask the same thing in prayer over and over again. And I think something we get wrong is we kind of think, okay, maybe God's just testing me. Like, does he want me to pray this 100 times before he'll answer, or we get what's the word? There you go. Superstition, yeah. Like, it's got to be no, like, Oh, I was praying for so and so, but I forgot to pray one day, and now God's not going to answer my prayer. And Scripture doesn't tell us we have a God like that, right, right? Like, he's not, he's not petty in that way of, oh, sorry, yeah, you only did seven hours and 59 minutes of work. I'm not paying you for a full eight hour day. Like, that's, that's not our God. Yet we can kind of treat him that way. Yeah, there. Just this weird balance of Pray without ceasing and like, well, how much God answered the first time somebody prayed and then he answered the 100th time somebody prayed. Like, there's no formula, right?

20:13  
Right? No, there's, there's no formula, right? God can answer you within a minute of praying. And then there are some prayers where you keep asking, you're like, What in the

20:24  
world is happening? Or he answers a prayer that you didn't even pray. It was just in your heart. You're like, Oh, how did this happen? Oh, god, you're amazing.

20:33  
Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think, for a couple reasons, that happens, and that's where we that's one of the ways we get it wrong. Like, oh, this is a transactional thing that I need to do, X, Y and Z. I need to pray for an hour. I need to give money, and I need to, like, clap three times, and God's gonna come do it for me. Or, if it

20:53  
happened once, yeah, he it's not like, Oh, I found the magic formula, the cheat code to God's answering prayers, right?

21:00  
Yeah, I'm just gonna say at the at the end In Jesus name, and then that's it. It's gonna happen the way, right? Yeah, that's true. But no, it's, it's, that's one of the ways we get around it because, because that's not how scripture paints it really, Scripture paints a few different ways, or a few different reasons why there seems to be a delay. And we're not, we can't talk about all, all of them, but I think one of the reasons that I have is it reveals that your heart is set on the Lord like it reveals that you're dependent upon him. So one of the ways we could look at this is children. Okay, you know, who's really good at asking you and keep asking you.

21:42  
Oh, my word, damn. Remember yesterday after lunch? I could have a lollipop. Remember it's after lunch?

21:50  
Oh, yeah, you know what? And here's the thing, as they're not jaded by it. Why? Because they're so dependent on you. They know that if if you would talk, that's it, like that's enough for them, that if they brought it up to you and you responded, they would, they would be satisfied. And as adults, as we grow up, that becomes just really irritating, like, stop asking me so much. And I think we put that on the Father, and really what it does is reveals our heart. We become like children to him, where we're like constantly, we we form this relationship. We're like, Yo, you are my father. Like your words are important to me, like what you will, what you say. And so then it that jadedness that I'm just keep asking, does it mean goes away and it becomes dad? Like, I want to talk to you about this. It's important to me, and I know you care, and I know you hear me. And so that's one of the pictures I think of why, wow. God holds a little bit so that he would draw and be more dependent.

22:51  
So we're putting our human interactions that we've gained. Yeah? You know there was at one, at one point in time, I would just ask, and never stop asking, yeah, but some bad experience in my life now I don't ask people like that anymore. You know, over some time, like, oh, grown ups, don't respond. Don't like that. Yeah, now I'm treating my heavenly father just like that, like he's a human, like he's a human, but he's not. That is mind blowing,

23:23  
yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, and it's, it's mind blowing, and it's terrible. Like, I'm sorry I treat you like that. Like, so, yeah, at no point is God, like, stop coming to me.

23:36  
He's like, No, come. Which is so funny, because we talk about spiritual maturity, yeah, but acting that way feels immature, yeah, yeah. But Jesus says, Come to me, like children, like children think so.

23:52  
You know, it's he always paints when he goes to motivate us the exact opposite picture of how it's usually painted us like, yeah. No, no. Be like a child. No. Be like a widow. No. Be like someone. Think of yourself that way, but think of me also, like this loving, generous father who, like, wants to hear from you, like, like, who cares for you, who though you're not seeing the answers like things are happening, like, I'm working and one of the Philippians four. Like, when the Philippians actually in chapter one, Paul says to them, like, hey, brothers, I want you to be aware. Because here's the here's the thing. They're just seeing him in prison. They might be they're praying for him. And then he's like, he's stuck. Nothing's happening. Like, oh my goodness, his ministry is delayed. And Paul's like, oh, you may not be aware of all the things God is doing this. Like, let me open your eyes. The guards are here in the Gospel Christians are becoming more bold. Like, look at all this work that God is doing. Don't just because you can't see it doesn't mean he's not answering and doing wonderful things. Like, yeah, he's he's. Like that. So that's, that's one of the things I think we get wrong, and the right way to think about it, exactly, you said another one. I think it builds up our, yeah, it displays our heart for him and, um, the persistence means that you, you know the Father Jesus, says that. Jesus says, like, don't, don't heap up empty words, right? But then his response is like, for your Father knows what you are in need of. The idea is you have this relationship with him, and so because if you really grasp this relationship with Him, then you'll keep going. At no point would you want to be like, Oh, I don't need to tell like, No, you do another reason. I think what we get wrong again, and this goes back to the first thing is like, how Jesus paints us and how we ought to see ourselves in our relationship with God. Is that I tend to think, okay, all right, telling myself that, oh, I'm I'm gonna go to him and he's gonna give me the strength I need for the week or for the year, but really, he's just gonna give me what I need for the day with him, Give

26:15  
me his or stay our daily bread. Yeah, yeah,

26:18  
with him, because, because the idea is, there's no point in time where God will answer you in a way where you don't remain dependent upon him. Yeah, yep, because that's, that's really the best good he can do for you, that if, at the end of your prayer, you're like, I need to go back to him about this good, like, that's the best good he can do for you. And then he'll give you just enough so that you could draw near to Him, so that you can be with him, not because he's like, stingy, but because he wants you to be full, like you know. He wants you to be filled with him that day, with all of your mind, all of your concern on him, and your walk with him like, that's his intention. And so he won't give you, like, his grace for a week and be like, I'll see you next week, kid, right? Yeah, pat you in the back. Good luck.

27:10  
Yeah, that, yeah. That blows my mind, because so many times we're just thinking, okay, the thing I want from God is righteous yet. Oh, come on.

27:21  
Stop. Are you guys recording a show without me? Hold on. Are you recording with no, no, we're just practicing. Are you?

27:35  
Hold on, all right. Bert, how do we get prayer wrong?

27:41  
I don't know any of the content.

27:43  
All right, you're off the show. So anyway, as I was saying, it's a really good point too. That's really good point.

27:57  
All right, where was I? God, doesn't give us anything so that we don't need him. Oh, yeah, so funny. Like, we could have a totally righteous now, I sound like a 70s like, surfer guy. We could be righteous in our desires and in our prayers of God. This is just, yeah, provide what I need for a week. Yeah. Like, that's all I need. I'll be good. I'll be good. But what we need is him, yes, and sometimes our prayers, we can think our righteous prayers, are like, why wouldn't he answer this? And it's like, well, it's causing you to rely on you and not on him, right? I don't want to get on finances, but I don't know what I believe about having a gigantic savings. You know, like there's, there's plenty of scripture that says, Steward your money well, but when you are so well off that you don't have to talk to God about it anymore, or it's causing you to become negligent in other parts of your life. Yeah, you know, and so Bert will probably have something to say about that, but he left, yeah,

29:07  
yeah. I mean, that's

29:10  
you told me that your aunt was sick and that and that we couldn't record today. And I just, I was driving by this station, I saw your cars out front, and I was like, Well, let me just see maybe

29:25  
what happened, guys, it's the Why do Christians podcast? I don't know. I think we're about done here. Josh, right, yeah, right, yeah, all right, yeah.

29:37  
So closing statements,

29:39  
can't wait to see this episode.

29:42  
Well, you're in it, yeah.

29:46  
So that's the way Christians get prayer wrong, at least a couple of the ways. Because there's we could probably do. I'm excited to hear this. We could do a seven part series on this. Oh yeah, yeah, if we wanted

29:57  
to, so many reasons I don't want to. I. Ah,

30:02  
but hey, if we didn't answer a question that you have, or maybe you clicked on this hoping, oh, I'll get some answers on you know, this thing I struggle with in prayer, let us know. Email us at podcast. We are the bridge.org or drop a comment in the comment section. Thanks for watching and Bert. Thanks for joining us. My pleasure. Josh, you're welcome. You.