WEBVTT

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Hey, Sid. Hey, Dad. So we're getting a little bit of a late start tonight.

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I feel like there's tension in the air right now.

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Okay, I feel as the therapist that you are projecting tension onto me because I feel perfectly calm.

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But tell me more about your experience with tension. I had a little bit of a day today.

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Okay, everybody. I may have ran out of gas on the side of the road right before this. So may.

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I'm curious just how many times you've ran out of gas in your life?

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That's a funny question, maybe like five.

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Okay.

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Is this not a universal experience? Have you never done that before?

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I think I did one time.

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See, that's the difference, is people do it one time and then they learn.

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And I haven't, something hasn't clicked yet. And it's like really beginning to be a problem.

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I love when you were telling me though, the story you were talking about talking to yourself

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and it sounded like you were even talking to yourself in the third person saying,

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Sydney, you need to get gas, Sydney.

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Oh yeah, no, it was kind of embarrassing. And then you have to like stand there

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on the side of the road for so long and all the cars are passing and it's so bad every time.

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But I will tell you, as far as the concept of PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder,

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and so when you called, my immediate panic is, okay, you got in an accident, so then you were okay

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and you're always good to say, I'm safe. I don't know if you said that, but I heard that in my head.

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And then I thought I saw flashing lights, which you did the right thing, it was your hazards, right?

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So then I went from, okay, she's not in an accident, okay, she got pulled over.

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So then by the time I figure out you just ran out of gas, oh, that's a joy.

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I can't wait to go and save you, you know? I'm glad.

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Yeah, and then your cousin Connor was with us and he figured out how to work the gas can.

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Yeah, thankfully. I'm not the most handy person in the world. So that was nice.

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I just, I had a day. So I was 45 minutes late because I was doing my laundry

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all so I could wear this shirt and then I didn't wash this shirt.

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So I like, if I smell weird, I'm sorry, everybody.

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Or I'm sorry to you, I guess. I was going to say, I think that was at fourth dimension, smell-o-vision, I don't think that

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has been perfected yet.

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So yeah, I'm not, I'm kind of going through it, but I do this, I do, I'm prepared in one

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place in my life and it's for this case that we're going to be talking about today.

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Okay. And I am excited because I know nothing about the case that we're going to talk about today,

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except for the one I looked over on your screen once you went through the 15 tabs to figure out the one that.

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I also, wait, introduction. I also forgot shoes.

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Like I'm literally like, I don't know what's going on.

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Okay.

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I was barefoot on the side of the freeway. Did you not see that? No one addressed it.

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No one addressed it at all. Okay, so I feel like shoes are just things you just put on before you leave the house.

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Yeah, and I feel like gas is something you put in your car before you get on the highway,

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but look where we are. You know, but we're here, Syd. Welcome to episode three of Murder on the Couch.

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The feedback has been really good. How do you do with positive feedback? Because your cousin Connor

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was telling you good feedback, and I feel like you were not... Do you believe it? Or do you feel

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like I'm paying him to do that.

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No, I don't know. I just don't like compliments. They're so like, I'm just like waiting for them to end,

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you know, but I do really appreciate them.

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Yeah. But it's like in my head immediately, I'm like, oh, how am I gonna react to this?

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Like, what am I gonna say? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

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But maybe that's just the thing. I don't know. No, I feel like as, here's my little therapist hat on,

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I think people want people to recognize or acknowledge them,

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but then when somebody actually does, then it's super uncomfortable.

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So they wanna get rid of that discomfort, Sid. I guess so, yeah.

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Yeah, but I've got really good feedback.

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And we've actually had a couple of people, here's where I wanna use narcissistic math.

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And said thousands of people have responded and asked why are we not doing the Lori Ballo case?

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Oh, we are going to do it. We are, we are so gonna do that, because I could talk about that all day.

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We've got narcissistic family systems, we've got a little bit of sociopathy,

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we've got narcissism.

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I mean, there's so many things. So actually, I did a podcast yesterday

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on my Waking Up to Narcissism podcast,

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and I used a little bit of Daybell stuff in there about when people think that they are smart

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and they know things when they are completely not smart and they are saying really dumb things.

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So I will not say more. So people need to go listen to that episode on waking up to narcissism.

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But what are we talking about today? So today we're talking about the story

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of Gypsy Rose Blanchard and- I see, I don't know the story.

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It's another instance where the system just completely failed this girl.

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There were so many times where it should have gone differently than it did.

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It's weird, I don't even know how to explain it.

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It's almost like this mother kidnapped her own daughter, in a sense.

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We're going to be talking about Munchausen by Proxy.

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Munchausen by Proxy. Which, which, okay, nerd stuff here, Munchausen by Proxy was renamed in the latest Diagnostic

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and Statistic Manual to Fictitious Disorder, so that'll give us a little heads up on what

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we're maybe going to be talking about. They changed it to that? Yeah. Why?

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Okay. So this is kind of a funny thing. If you even look at things like,

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have you ever heard of Asperger's? Yeah, actually someone in this case has that.

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Okay. So Asperger's is no longer Asperger's. It's on the autism spectrum. So it's autism

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spectrum disorder. So we no longer call it Asperger's and Munchausen by proxy,

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or even Munchausen disorder was named after Baron von Munchausen. So, okay.

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Let's get into a little bit of me thinking. I know what I'm talking about. So I think that

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the reason Asperger's was renamed was because the person it was named after turned out to,

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not be a good person, but I may be defaming his name. And I think that, you know, we don't want

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to talk about Baron von Munchausen for some reason. I don't know if he was eventually found

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for war crimes. I don't know. But so now we just put it as fictitious disorder.

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So basically like nothing about it changed, just the name that they slapped on top of it.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, let's get into the case. Let's do it.

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Let's start by talking about Gypsy Rose Blanchard.

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Music.

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So, who was Gypsy? She was born on July 27th, 1991. Wait, when were you born?

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Whoa, asking me a lot of questions right now.

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Wait, weren't you around that time frame? 2002. Oh.

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So, kind of. Okay, no. Okay, okay. I knew when you were born.

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Yeah, you're the one who you didn't birth me. No, I did not.

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Anyways, Gypsy was given a very tough hand of cards. Is that the way you say it?

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She was dealt a tough hand. Yeah.

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Yeah, she had a lot of medical issues. So she had asthma, epilepsy.

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She was hearing impaired, vision impaired, fed with a feeding tube all the time.

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Wow. She had muscular dystrophy, paralyzed from the waist down.

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So she was always in a wheelchair and she was mentally handicapped.

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So she had the brain of a child or like a teenager.

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And was this from the time of birth? It started when she was like three months old. She had sleep apnea.

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Like it just seemed like this child had every single ailment that existed.

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So it was just a really sad, sad story.

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And kind of the angel in her story, I guess, was her mother.

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Her mother was Claudine Blanchard and she goes by Dee Dee. So we're gonna refer to her as Dee Dee.

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Okay, Dee Dee is Gypsy Rose's mom.

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Yes.

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Dee Dee basically just dedicated her entire life to caring for Gypsy.

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I know I should like be on edge cause there's some nefarious turn is gonna happen

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cause the way we're talking about right now, you said it's her angel, it's her mom,

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her kid has all these problems.

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So right now I'm a fan of Dee Dee. Yeah, everyone is. Everyone in the community loves Dee Dee.

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They would get like free charity trips and stuff.

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They would get like money sent to them all the time because everyone just wanted to see this daughter be okay.

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And another part of it was Gypsy was like, She had the light of.

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I don't know where I'm going with this, but she was a really good, like, she was really,

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really. Radiated positive energy. That, that, like in all the videos I saw of her, like she was always in a hospital bed,

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I swear, always. But she was always smiling.

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Wow.

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And always just like, yep, I'm going to get my second surgery of the week. Just crazy

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stuff like that. Her attitude was always just that of someone who was so happy. And I think

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that's part of why the community was so moved by this story was because she was given like

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the shittiest set of cards ever and she was trading it like.

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I'm making the best of it. This is what, this is my lot in life. And then it sounds like Deedee

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was a saint. So the end of the story. So now for that terrifying turn. Okay.

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And it gets dark right away. So. Oh, okay.

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Just warning everybody with that. It's interesting though. So when you said, so they were probably raising money,

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giving money, like the make a wish stuff going on trips.

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Yeah. All that stuff. And we'll get into it with more detail, but yeah,

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they had a free house, like free. Really? Everything.

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So before we get into the serious stuff, can I tell you a funny story that I don't think I've

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ever talked about? Yeah.

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So when I was in college, I worked at a chain of video stores, which I don't know,

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do you remember going to video stores? No.

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At all? No. Connor? I don't think I've ever been inside a video store.

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Well, I don't think they exist anymore. Blockbuster, yeah. So I worked for a chain

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of video stores. It was a dream job for me. I was getting paid minimum wage, $3.25 an hour.

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This is like one of those that sounds like a really old person, right? But there was a guy

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one time and he thought he was going to be hilarious and his name was Mike. I haven't

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talked to him in 35 years, but he took a picture of his little brother and he put it on a jar and

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he said like, help get little Dickie get a spinal transplant. And he put it just to be funny.

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Little Dickie?

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Yeah. And people put money in that thing like crazy. And then I felt like it was so wrong,

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but people like, oh my gosh. And I remember one time I was checking some lady out, getting videos

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And her little daughter said, look, mommy, it's Richard.

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Because she went to school with him, you know?

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And then there was another person one time that said, man, it's amazing what

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they can do with the modern medicine these days, a spinal transplant.

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But I mean, I just think of that guy within a day or two, that little cash jar was loaded.

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So, I can only imagine if somebody is radiating positivity and their mom's just saying, man,

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I'm going to devote my life to helping my daughter that they could have just raised a ton of money.

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Yeah, and we'll get into it more, but what brings someone to be okay with like the morality behind that is what I really don't understand.

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I have thoughts. thoughts. How don't you feel so guilty and so...

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But anyways, okay, getting back to the case, jumping pretty much to the crime scene.

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June 14th, 2015, a horrific post is posted on DeeDee's Facebook account.

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The post reads, and this is really twisted and not cool, so just letting everyone know. Okay.

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And I'll put it on the screen for the video version. Okay.

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That bitch is dead, exclamation point. DeeDee's saying this?

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Yes, straight from her account. It's just, that bitch is dead.

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And this is also, mind you, the account that's posting like surgery updates,

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positive like things about their family.

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So this post comes out 3.32 PM, middle of the afternoon. And everyone is just commenting like, what is going on?

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Like, are you guys watching a movie? People are trying to like, it's weird.

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People probably thought she was hacked or something. And then at 3.40 PM, and this one is,

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I don't even like that my mouth is saying this online, but I want to like put it in for the case, I feel like.

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But, okay, I fucking slashed that fat pig and raped her sweet, innocent daughter.

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Dot, dot, dot, her scream was so fucking loud, LOL. And I'm looking over your shoulder,

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it's coming from Dee Dee's account.

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Yes, and it was posted by her daughter, Gypsy, is what we were going to get into right now.

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I didn't see that coming.

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Yeah, I'm sitting there thinking the mom did this to the daughter. The daughter is saying that about the mom. Yeah. Oh, wow

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I had no idea and this is just the tip of the iceberg. I don't think that gypsy used these words,

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Who knows why she used these words?

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She says later that it's because she just wanted the body to be found because this was actually four days after Wow.

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Okay, Sid, you got a good one. Yeah, man, okay.

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So we're just gonna get into all of this because it is just like a crazy story of the victim is

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also the perpetrator kind of thing. So it's like, it really throws your mind for a loop

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because I'm on Gypsy's side. I am on Gypsy's side, actually.

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Really? When we get through this? Yeah.

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And it's kind of crazy saying that after I just read that. So yeah, let's continue.

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I'm at a loss and I know nothing more about this case. And so I am just gonna sit back,

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eat popcorn mentally and I want to hear you won't be eating popcorn oh okay

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that's a fair point all right it's a new day you guys today I didn't have oil in

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my car okay I let them in behind the scenes magic I was trying to make it

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sound like that you had just finished yeah so the original intro we ran out of

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gas and then this time we ran out of oil but the car still kick it it really is

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and okay talk about we just put oil in the car and what did you create I

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I created a funnel and you think it's the greatest thing ever and that's honestly so demeaning.

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Why is that demeaning? Because he was so- I literally cut a water bottle in half as a funnel and he's like,

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oh my goodness.

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Okay, so here's where I'm- Albert Einstein is my daughter. I'm impressed you know Albert Einstein is-

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That's also offensive.

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Okay, but listen to this though. You don't even realize, I feel, says the therapist.

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I feel that you don't even realize, Syd, that I'm actually taking shots at me because

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I didn't think of a water bottle funnel because I can fix nothing in a car. I know nothing.

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Cutting this all out. No, you're not. And moving on to the case. Okay, moving on the case. It's a new day.

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And this is actually the reason why I go watch on YouTube because we are wearing new clothes and that really is not that exciting.

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Okay, back to you, Sid. The case. Okay, so let's take it all the way back to.

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1967, May 3rd in Chaks Bay, Louisiana.

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Wait, can we introduce the concepts of to people with ADHD? I wasn't paying attention. I really do want to know what was the time?

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1967. Okay, so I wasn't even born yet. No, yeah, this is a long time ago. So this is when Dede Blanchard was born.

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Now, no one in her family really has nice things to say about her, unfortunately.

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Everyone just said she was kind of weird and she was, even as a child, she was.

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Manipulative, petty theft, just all that kind of stuff. She was one of five children to Emma Gisclare and Claude,

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I don't know how to say that.

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And yeah, they were growing up in Louisiana and I guess she started, she had a pet tarantula,

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which that's kind of cool. I don't know.

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Do you think, would you really hold one? No. Okay. There's no way I would.

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I'm just, yeah. But I don't think that's that terrible. She started getting into witchcraft, which that, I mean, you go through one bad breakup

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and you go through witchcraft. So honestly, I get it. Is that kind of par for the course? It really is.

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But what really was strange was when she became a nurse's aide.

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She was taking care of her own mother at this time, and her mom mysteriously just like starved to death.

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And everyone at this time just saw us just kind of suspicious.

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No one, there was no like case put out or anything, but just keep that in mind for later, okay?

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So she was helping her mother as a nurse's aide and her mother mysteriously starved to

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death. Everyone actually says that she was a lot like her mom.

00:15:13.323 --> 00:15:18.546
So her mom, she would literally go to laundromats and just like steal people's laundry, I guess.

00:15:18.743 --> 00:15:20.130
All that like petty theft.

00:15:20.343 --> 00:15:25.135
So I guess maybe that's where she kind of learned it from. Okay, can I jump in and go therapy already?

00:15:25.595 --> 00:15:29.241
Yeah, of course. It's really interesting because there's, I mean, there's truth in that

00:15:29.423 --> 00:15:35.183
if you were modeled a certain behavior as a kid, you do kind of feel like, well, that's just what people do.

00:15:35.183 --> 00:15:40.953
And so not to make excuses for whatever she's gonna do, but if she'd never saw her own mom

00:15:41.263 --> 00:15:46.023
take ownership and accountability or go out and, I don't know, work hard and get her own clothes.

00:15:46.023 --> 00:15:48.532
It was like, well, look, these people have a ton of clothes anyway,

00:15:48.983 --> 00:15:52.439
so they're not going to miss them. Then as a kid, you grew up thinking, yeah, OK.

00:15:52.493 --> 00:15:57.769
And well, not to jump ahead, but further in the case, when we talk about Gypsy again, which is her daughter,

00:15:57.886 --> 00:16:00.992
she's very manipulative even after she's caught and everything.

00:16:01.223 --> 00:16:04.574
And I feel like that same conversation comes into play It's like, how?

00:16:05.079 --> 00:16:09.809
Of course she's going to be manipulative. She was raised around constant manipulation. Like,

00:16:09.809 --> 00:16:13.694
I feel like she would have to go to years of therapy to unlearn what was just built

00:16:14.108 --> 00:16:17.489
subconsciously in her brain, you know? No, there's a concept called differentiation,

00:16:17.489 --> 00:16:21.569
which is like where one person ends and the other begins because we're all basically

00:16:21.569 --> 00:16:26.855
codependent and enmeshed to our parents. And so in order to be more differentiated,

00:16:27.197 --> 00:16:30.465
you have to either have gone through some serious trauma and gone and sought help,

00:16:30.942 --> 00:16:33.249
or just really done a lot of your own work.

00:16:33.249 --> 00:16:36.129
And most people don't because they don't even know they need to do any work

00:16:36.199 --> 00:16:39.062
because they're just being all they know. That's all they know. Yeah, exactly.

00:16:39.251 --> 00:16:43.023
That's their baseline. Yes. So here's a couple of quotes from the family.

00:16:43.131 --> 00:16:45.202
Bobby Petrie, Petrie.

00:16:45.319 --> 00:16:50.621
I don't want to say Petrie. It's there. They look at French names and Louisiana has like a Cajun.

00:16:50.849 --> 00:16:51.872
So I think it would be.

00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:56.878
Well, I guess I don't even know how to say Petrie. Petrie, Petrie.

00:16:57.009 --> 00:16:57.809
That's like Southern.

00:16:58.390 --> 00:17:02.809
Bobby, Dee Dee's nephew, describes her as a real weird girl.

00:17:02.809 --> 00:17:06.474
He believed that she was bipolar or maybe had multiple personalities,

00:17:06.897 --> 00:17:09.823
but overall he just said she was definitely an evil person.

00:17:09.969 --> 00:17:16.088
Laura Petre, Dee Dee's step-mom, describes her by saying she was a very filthy person.

00:17:16.489 --> 00:17:19.176
If it didn't go her way, she would see to it that you would pay.

00:17:19.529 --> 00:17:21.841
And did we pay. We paid a lot.

00:17:22.169 --> 00:17:29.529
The minute she'd have set foot on the bayou, which I guess is- The Bayou, yeah, that's like the, I know what it is.

00:17:29.529 --> 00:17:34.003
The Bayou is like, I don't even know. It's a place.

00:17:34.089 --> 00:17:37.703
Swamps and crawdads, yeah. The law would have arrested her

00:17:37.769 --> 00:17:40.151
because she was making bad checks everywhere she went.

00:17:40.609 --> 00:17:46.678
Her mother was also a huge shoplifter. She had to go to court several, several times for shoplifting.

00:17:46.769 --> 00:17:52.647
Before she got married to her then husband, she stole three to $4,000 from his father.

00:17:53.331 --> 00:17:53.809
Wow.

00:17:54.573 --> 00:18:00.889
Step or her father-in-law. So now it is 1991. Dee Dee is 24 years old and she

00:18:00.889 --> 00:18:09.472
meets her soon-to-be husband Rob Blanchard at this place called Bolden Alley. I guess it was just like a hangout place. Rod is only 17 actually so,

00:18:10.089 --> 00:18:11.515
So problematic age gap.

00:18:12.641 --> 00:18:18.691
But 1967, whatever, they meet up again the very next week and immediately start dating.

00:18:18.691 --> 00:18:22.093
Within that same year, Dee Dee becomes pregnant with Gypsy.

00:18:22.426 --> 00:18:28.782
Being from the South, Rod said that he just got married out of expectation and necessity, kind of.

00:18:28.863 --> 00:18:31.991
Because where he was, like, it was just kind of ABC, you know?

00:18:31.991 --> 00:18:34.255
You marry a girl, or... If you get her pregnant.

00:18:34.391 --> 00:18:37.649
If you get her pregnant, you marry her. Yeah, that's the right thing to do.

00:18:37.793 --> 00:18:38.991
Yeah, and then you start a family.

00:18:39.251 --> 00:18:41.991
Like, that was just, he felt like that's what he had to do, so he did.

00:18:42.105 --> 00:18:48.551
He then said that he woke up on his 18th birthday and realized that he had got married for all the wrong reasons,

00:18:49.109 --> 00:18:54.551
I guess and he left his pregnant wife. Oh, okay. Well, not so good. Not so good. Yeah, right

00:18:54.744 --> 00:19:00.791
Yeah, he does continue to pay child support though. It was I think a thousand two hundred dollars a month

00:19:01.037 --> 00:19:02.882
okay, so he was doing that but,

00:19:03.972 --> 00:19:08.871
Yeah, they divorce while she's pregnant and dd. I mean, i'm sure she was a wreck. I don't know

00:19:08.871 --> 00:19:15.591
but she goes and moves in with her stepfather and his wife, Laura, the one who said she was filthy.

00:19:15.591 --> 00:19:22.003
So they move in and she gives birth to her daughter, Gypsy Rose Blanchard,

00:19:22.111 --> 00:19:26.711
in Golden Meadow, Louisiana, July 27th, 1991.

00:19:26.711 --> 00:19:35.191
And it only took three months for this all to begin. At three months old, Rod said that Dee Dee let him know

00:19:35.191 --> 00:19:39.639
that Gypsy had sleep apnea and she needed a breathing monitor machine every night.

00:19:39.751 --> 00:19:40.845
Do you know much about sleep apnea?

00:19:41.431 --> 00:19:45.751
I've heard like really old people have it. I know, I'm not even trying to crack jokes or be funny,

00:19:45.751 --> 00:19:48.443
but I didn't even know, I've never heard of a baby having it.

00:19:48.551 --> 00:19:53.160
And it's usually people, they snore really loud and you have a sleep apnea machine.

00:19:53.551 --> 00:19:56.869
So that is kind of odd. It's big, it's bulky, it's not good.

00:19:56.991 --> 00:19:58.939
She had to sleep with it every single night.

00:19:59.311 --> 00:20:02.937
She later would say that it actually made it harder for her to breathe.

00:20:03.071 --> 00:20:08.471
So Rod said that it just, it began with the sleep apnea and then it just kept going and going.

00:20:08.471 --> 00:20:13.127
Suddenly she had problems with her eyes, she had problems with her hearing, she can't walk.

00:20:13.311 --> 00:20:18.474
So when she was five years old, Gypsy gets into a motorcycling accident with her grandfather.

00:20:18.631 --> 00:20:21.391
And Dee Dee just takes this and runs with it.

00:20:21.711 --> 00:20:25.424
She goes to the doctor, she's convinced that Gypsy can't walk.

00:20:25.591 --> 00:20:28.503
She's like, my daughter needs a wheelchair, like she's not okay.

00:20:28.911 --> 00:20:33.697
In later interviews, Gypsy will say that she literally had a scratch on her knee.

00:20:34.003 --> 00:20:37.442
But she exited this hospital with a full wheelchair.

00:20:37.711 --> 00:20:39.981
Jeez, Dee Dee's gonna get her way. Yeah, exactly.

00:20:40.551 --> 00:20:44.791
Okay, so Gypsy is five years old at this time and Dee Dee's already claiming

00:20:44.791 --> 00:20:49.118
that she has muscular dystrophy, a horrible chromosome disorder.

00:20:49.586 --> 00:20:55.510
She told Rod, the father of her child, that she wasn't even going to live to be 18 years old.

00:20:55.834 --> 00:21:01.436
Her mental capacity was five years behind, so she was acting like a literal child, like a baby,

00:21:01.436 --> 00:21:04.556
I guess, even though she was a child. Some reports say it was kindergarten,

00:21:04.556 --> 00:21:07.596
others say it was second grade, but by the time she reached one of those,

00:21:07.596 --> 00:21:12.236
Dee Dee pulled her out of school because she said she was too ill to be around other students.

00:21:12.344 --> 00:21:16.476
So at this point, Gypsy's completely being homeschooled by Dee Dee. She's not allowed

00:21:16.476 --> 00:21:22.211
to hang out with friends. Wow, starting to isolate her. She's in this wheelchair that who knows what

00:21:22.476 --> 00:21:26.586
is even going on with that at this point. It's just, it's already so awful. So at this point,

00:21:26.796 --> 00:21:33.676
Dee Dee's still making bad checks. She's collecting the child support money and still living in her

00:21:33.676 --> 00:21:41.036
father's house. Dee Dee's stepmom suddenly falls extremely, extremely ill, like bedridden. Her

00:21:41.036 --> 00:21:45.276
husband said that he didn't even know if she was gonna live. So the family started to pay

00:21:45.276 --> 00:21:49.956
closer attention to it and they actually realized that she was only getting sick

00:21:50.027 --> 00:21:54.996
when Dee Dee was around. Okay, notice in a pattern? Yeah, she was only falling ill

00:21:54.996 --> 00:21:59.525
like bedridden when Dee Dee was cooking the meals when Dee Dee was around. So the.

00:22:00.276 --> 00:22:05.596
Family eventually actually confronts Dee Dee. She just won't take any of it. She

00:22:05.596 --> 00:22:12.596
picks up Gypsy and they move to New Orleans alone. So just just if she's gonna be accused of something she's getting out of town. She's running away.

00:22:12.596 --> 00:22:19.596
And Rod says that at this point, it was just, it was so hard because they were just so isolated now.

00:22:19.596 --> 00:22:25.836
Away from the family, away from everyone. So at that point, I'm sure they don't take anybody's phone calls.

00:22:25.836 --> 00:22:29.956
They're not gonna, I mean, she's not gonna go anywhere near somebody that knows what she's up to.

00:22:30.628 --> 00:22:36.596
Yeah. This part is just a little weird because it sounds like a lot of people in the family were suspicious.

00:22:36.876 --> 00:22:41.665
Like Rod says that one of the relatives said to him one time They were like.

00:22:42.205 --> 00:22:47.174
I saw her walk, you know she can walk, right? And so Rod confronts Dee Dee,

00:22:47.615 --> 00:22:50.575
and Dee Dee just, she always has something to say.

00:22:50.575 --> 00:22:54.855
She's like, it's progressive, it's getting worse. It's like a bad right now, but it's gonna get worse.

00:22:54.855 --> 00:22:58.346
Like she just always has something to cover her ass.

00:22:58.635 --> 00:23:04.495
And it's crazy, yeah, she's very manipulative. So Dee Dee and Gypsy are now living

00:23:04.495 --> 00:23:07.267
in Slidell, New Orleans, alone.

00:23:07.855 --> 00:23:12.812
And they're paying rent, living off of the wellness checks. Gypsy is 10 years old at this point,

00:23:12.935 --> 00:23:18.935
and Dee Dee was shaving her head every day, or every week, I don't know, you know.

00:23:18.935 --> 00:23:22.571
Shaving Gypsy's head? Shaving Gypsy's head and claiming that she had leukemia.

00:23:22.975 --> 00:23:27.175
Wow. At this point, if we laid everything out, she has muscular dystrophy, a chromosome disorder,

00:23:27.175 --> 00:23:31.078
she has leukemia, needs a sleep apnea machine, needs a wheelchair, all these things.

00:23:31.295 --> 00:23:34.589
All of these things. Apparently, if Gypsy would try to walk,

00:23:35.075 --> 00:23:36.929
she would hit her with a coat hanger.

00:23:37.253 --> 00:23:41.845
Oh, wow. She was taking so, so much medication, none of what she needed.

00:23:42.395 --> 00:23:48.735
It was found actually later that the side effects of a lot of her medications would match the symptoms

00:23:48.735 --> 00:23:51.369
of the diseases that her mom was claiming she had.

00:23:52.255 --> 00:23:57.986
So it's all just so calculated and manipulative. Have we already talked about the potential diagnosis yet?

00:23:58.815 --> 00:24:04.375
We did at the beginning a little bit. And leading into that, Gypsy wasn't a child to Dee Dee.

00:24:04.375 --> 00:24:06.016
She was an object. Yeah.

00:24:06.295 --> 00:24:09.031
And I feel like that's part of the Mount Munchausen thing.

00:24:09.335 --> 00:24:12.695
Munchausen by proxy, yeah. That's not a child, that's your tool.

00:24:12.695 --> 00:24:16.989
It is, it's a way to get attention, it's a way to feel like you have control,

00:24:17.350 --> 00:24:21.215
to get power in a sense, and just to feel like you matter, it's so sad.

00:24:21.509 --> 00:24:24.812
At this point, Deedee also had a feeding tube inserted into her.

00:24:25.515 --> 00:24:28.575
Wow. feeding tube, which that one gives me the the comments.

00:24:29.178 --> 00:24:35.282
Imagining that being stuck inside of you all the time is awful and the medication was literally causing her teeth to fall out.

00:24:35.381 --> 00:24:38.784
I feel so bad for I really do I really do it's a kid.

00:24:39.351 --> 00:24:46.769
A kid a child a little girl who is so positive everyday still is taking handfuls of medication.

00:24:47.336 --> 00:24:56.347
Shaving her head these can hit with a co-worker these medications would cause her to feel super drowsy and out of it all the time to which her mom would use.

00:24:56.788 --> 00:25:01.709
To her advantage. She would drug her up, I'm sure before, like important things where she wanted

00:25:01.709 --> 00:25:05.069
to make her look mentally less than she was kind of thing.

00:25:05.069 --> 00:25:08.951
Dee Dee would constantly take her to the emergency room. It seemed like every other night

00:25:09.069 --> 00:25:12.129
she was at the emergency room. She had something else wrong with her.

00:25:12.129 --> 00:25:17.647
I'm sure doctors- I was gonna ask you, did you find any stuff that says that medical people were- Yes. Okay.

00:25:18.029 --> 00:25:23.309
Okay. Yes. Not only was like her family, I mean, I don't want to blame her family,

00:25:23.516 --> 00:25:26.496
but this is just another situation where it seems like so many people knew,

00:25:26.874 --> 00:25:33.029
doctors knew, family members knew, and nobody wanted to be the one to take it all apart.

00:25:33.029 --> 00:25:36.909
Yeah, everybody's kind of wonder if they're just hoping or assuming that somebody else will.

00:25:36.909 --> 00:25:41.069
Which is just so messed up because this is a child, like she doesn't know how to help herself, you know?

00:25:41.069 --> 00:25:46.229
Yeah. They're living in New Orleans and Hurricane Katrina hits in 2005.

00:25:46.229 --> 00:25:48.435
Oh, I was about to ask, do you remember that? But you would have been two or three?

00:25:49.229 --> 00:25:53.389
Yeah, I don't remember. It was big, it was brutal. Obviously awful.

00:25:53.389 --> 00:25:59.138
I guess their home got destroyed and stuff, but I guess their home got destroyed and stuff.

00:26:01.469 --> 00:26:06.989
Their home got destroyed. It did. That was, oh, go ahead. She, well, do you have something?

00:26:06.989 --> 00:26:09.669
Well, just that was one of the first things that I ever remember.

00:26:09.669 --> 00:26:14.549
When Hurricane Katrina was just devastating and there were all this video of, I mean,

00:26:14.549 --> 00:26:18.689
the entire cities were just wiped out and it was like flood.

00:26:18.689 --> 00:26:22.869
People are trapped and abandoned on their roofs and they fit everybody into this big sports arena

00:26:22.869 --> 00:26:26.029
called the Superdome or something. And I mean, it was crazy.

00:26:26.029 --> 00:26:28.008
And people were out of their homes for years.

00:26:28.149 --> 00:26:31.469
What's even crazier is that Dee Dee didn't see it as a tragedy.

00:26:31.469 --> 00:26:34.469
She basically just used it to her advantage.

00:26:34.469 --> 00:26:38.629
Her and Gypsy move into, I think, the temporary housings or whatever for that time.

00:26:38.629 --> 00:26:42.709
And Dee Dee saw a specialist, I guess, that told her to go to Missouri

00:26:42.709 --> 00:26:46.349
where she would get help with Gypsy's medical situation.

00:26:46.349 --> 00:26:51.929
And this is where media just picked up the story and it took off, right?

00:26:51.929 --> 00:26:56.393
Because it was this sick, sick girl and her single mom.

00:26:56.489 --> 00:27:00.289
Their house had just been destroyed in Hurricane Katrina. They didn't have anything.

00:27:00.289 --> 00:27:04.144
They had all these medical bills. So the media just ran with it.

00:27:04.369 --> 00:27:08.309
It was a beautiful story, honestly. When people were looking for feel-good stories

00:27:08.309 --> 00:27:12.444
around that time of things like Hurricane Katrina, you know, so people are gonna run with it.

00:27:12.609 --> 00:27:16.969
It's taking advantage of people's like sympathy or I don't know what the word is.

00:27:16.969 --> 00:27:21.829
Habitats for Humanity actually picks up this story and they built them a super nice home,

00:27:22.301 --> 00:27:24.345
with a hot tub, a wheelchair ramp.

00:27:24.789 --> 00:27:25.155
Wow.

00:27:25.785 --> 00:27:32.222
Like, she is the con woman of the century. And when Dee Dee will now go to these new doctors

00:27:32.355 --> 00:27:37.326
and specialists in Missouri, she claims that all of the medical records.

00:27:38.226 --> 00:27:40.486
Had been destroyed in Hurricane Katrina.

00:27:40.835 --> 00:27:45.257
She claims that Gypsy's birth certificate was destroyed, all the medical records.

00:27:45.755 --> 00:27:52.900
So basically, it just gave her a completely blank slate to tell them whatever she wanted.

00:27:53.035 --> 00:27:58.139
I still have a hard time that people, cause doctors know what symptoms look like

00:27:58.517 --> 00:28:01.146
or the things that don't go with each other. I don't know.

00:28:01.635 --> 00:28:06.675
No, yeah, exact. And that leads straight into this. Well, first of all, they're going to concerts, okay?

00:28:06.675 --> 00:28:09.914
They're getting donations from charities and everyone wanted to help.

00:28:10.035 --> 00:28:14.355
And like, she got to meet like the Harry Potter cast and stuff like, glad she at least got to do some

00:28:14.355 --> 00:28:15.901
of that stuff, but no.

00:28:16.035 --> 00:28:22.085
In 2007, she actually sees a doctor who is suspicious of her, finally.

00:28:22.670 --> 00:28:27.811
Wow. Right? Yeah. So this doctor was a pediatric neurologist.

00:28:27.955 --> 00:28:30.421
His name was Bernardo Flasterstein.

00:28:30.535 --> 00:28:36.138
He was very suspicious of Gypsy because he was looking at her legs

00:28:36.555 --> 00:28:39.874
and her legs that were supposedly paralyzed

00:28:39.995 --> 00:28:41.404
and they had muscle on them.

00:28:41.555 --> 00:28:47.515
Gotcha. And that kind of made sense to me because I feel like you can tell if someone has been in a wheelchair

00:28:47.515 --> 00:28:49.915
for super, super long time. Their legs would probably atrophy.

00:28:49.915 --> 00:28:56.515
They're very thin. Yeah. And he's doing all these tests for muscular dystrophy. They're coming back as negative.

00:28:56.690 --> 00:29:01.995
And he actually puts in his notes, the mother is not a good historian.

00:29:02.658 --> 00:29:08.435
Oh. Yeah. He also noted there is a strong possibility of Munchausen by proxy,

00:29:08.915 --> 00:29:13.344
with maybe some underlying unknown etiology to explain for her symptoms.

00:29:14.343 --> 00:29:19.755
So someone said it. Yeah. Someone said it. He wrote it down. He put it in the notes.

00:29:20.744 --> 00:29:25.094
And she still gets away with it. I guess he spoke to his colleagues

00:29:25.094 --> 00:29:28.854
and he was trying to get this situation to move further

00:29:28.854 --> 00:29:33.437
and they just told him to give it up because the family was, I guess, so high and respected.

00:29:34.166 --> 00:29:33.743
That they don't mean to bother him.

00:29:34.354 --> 00:29:39.361
Well, I bet they had so much media attention, I would imagine that maybe that they felt like

00:29:39.703 --> 00:29:41.014
that nobody's gonna believe him.

00:29:41.692 --> 00:29:44.294
Yeah. Wow. I just hate that because it's like, it's a little girl.

00:29:44.294 --> 00:29:47.409
The truth is gonna come out. Like it was never gonna have a happy ending.

00:29:47.854 --> 00:29:52.675
It was never something you could have just pushed under the rug because she's gonna keep getting abused.

00:29:52.854 --> 00:29:53.894
There's a couple of things.

00:29:53.894 --> 00:29:56.774
One, I did a podcast last week on my waking up to narcissism one.

00:29:56.774 --> 00:30:02.505
And I asked for examples of things that you just, like he knows that people with muscular dystrophy,

00:30:02.834 --> 00:30:07.196
their legs atrophy. So if she has like this musculature on her legs, it can't be a thing.

00:30:07.594 --> 00:30:12.318
And I did some examples of like somebody that their narcissistic husband told his wife

00:30:12.734 --> 00:30:15.577
to tell somebody to do a certain thing on the roof.

00:30:15.714 --> 00:30:18.782
This wife has no idea how to do roofing.

00:30:19.214 --> 00:30:23.166
So then when she asked this other person, hey, can you do this thing for the roof?

00:30:23.895 --> 00:30:28.134
And she only does it because she heard it from her husband. But then when she told her husband,

00:30:28.134 --> 00:30:31.583
okay, I told them what you told me. And then he said, I didn't say that.

00:30:32.014 --> 00:30:37.214
And she said, I have zero idea of how to do what I told this person to do.

00:30:37.214 --> 00:30:39.199
I've never even heard these words before.

00:30:39.254 --> 00:30:43.367
So the only reason I know it is because you told me and he still said it wasn't me.

00:30:43.774 --> 00:30:47.294
So I feel like that's that example of where there's certain things like this doctor knows.

00:30:47.294 --> 00:30:49.894
He knows that you will not have musculature in your legs.

00:30:50.194 --> 00:30:54.994
Like this woman knows, she knows that I just told somebody to do something on a roof

00:30:55.151 --> 00:30:57.266
that I've never even heard of in my entire life.

00:30:57.634 --> 00:30:59.553
And I think those are just those examples of where.

00:31:00.291 --> 00:31:05.125
The crazy person, the narcissist, the DD, they don't know what they don't know.

00:31:05.345 --> 00:31:07.259
Like they think that they're saying the right thing.

00:31:07.625 --> 00:31:10.685
You know, does that make sense? I know this one drives me crazy.

00:31:10.685 --> 00:31:13.945
In the Vallow case, because we're- I know, and I know, and it's okay,

00:31:13.945 --> 00:31:16.864
because I want to talk this one through, because I think that this is a thing as a therapist

00:31:17.285 --> 00:31:20.545
that I see so often where, let me go back to like the Lori Vallow case

00:31:20.545 --> 00:31:22.392
that we're going to cover in the not too distant future.

00:31:22.505 --> 00:31:28.365
Her husband, Chad, when Chad's wife died and she died under very suspect circumstances,

00:31:28.522 --> 00:31:30.719
like they've now proven that she was killed.

00:31:30.885 --> 00:31:36.381
When the people came and they said, how did she die? He made up a completely crazy story

00:31:36.485 --> 00:31:37.786
that he thought was right.

00:31:37.905 --> 00:31:40.765
And so when the people came and they said, that isn't how it works.

00:31:40.765 --> 00:31:43.725
Cause he said, she fell out of bed. He said, she died in the middle of the night.

00:31:43.725 --> 00:31:47.112
So then her legs were hanging over the bed. So when she died, they got stiff,

00:31:47.517 --> 00:31:48.858
which probably meant that they got heavy.

00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:50.911
And then she tipped over out of bed.

00:31:51.445 --> 00:31:55.115
Like that makes no sense. So when Chad's saying that, oh, that's what happened.

00:31:55.682 --> 00:31:58.338
Then instantly now the medical people know That isn't what happened.

00:31:58.645 --> 00:32:00.606
Do you know what I mean? I think so. Yeah, okay.

00:32:01.145 --> 00:32:05.765
So, it must've been weird. Like you said, he knows, she has muscles on her legs.

00:32:06.233 --> 00:32:07.808
Yeah. There's no way she's not paralyzed.

00:32:07.965 --> 00:32:09.546
And then Dee Dee's looking at him like.

00:32:09.845 --> 00:32:12.966
She's like, this is what happened. Okay, let me give you another one.

00:32:13.399 --> 00:32:17.265
And narcissistic triangulation. So this one is mind blowing.

00:32:17.265 --> 00:32:20.960
So I still remember a time where I had a woman in my office and her narcissistic husband.

00:32:21.045 --> 00:32:25.318
And he said, you know what? I went to my doctor today and I was telling my doctor about my wife

00:32:25.445 --> 00:32:30.245
even my doctor thinks that she's depressed and needs medication. So he thinks that the wife's

00:32:30.245 --> 00:32:34.122
buying it, oh my gosh, your doctor thinks I need medication? And he thinks I'm gonna go,

00:32:34.437 --> 00:32:40.245
holy cow, she must be depressed, but what did I think instead? So hang on, so it takes somebody

00:32:40.245 --> 00:32:43.925
months to get a doctor's appointment, you've got about five minutes that you may get heard about

00:32:43.925 --> 00:32:49.365
what you're there for, but you, Mr. Narcissist, were so convincing with that five minute appointment

00:32:49.365 --> 00:32:54.405
with this doctor that doesn't know your wife that she was able to gather the data, make a diagnosis

00:32:54.485 --> 00:32:56.798
and make a prescription for an antidepressant.

00:32:57.365 --> 00:32:59.216
Is that what you're telling me? Yeah. Right?

00:32:59.216 --> 00:33:04.336
And like, yeah, you were gonna spend that time for your wife instead of yourself.

00:33:04.549 --> 00:33:11.776
And no doctor would ever say, wait, person I'm not very familiar with, tell me more about this

00:33:11.776 --> 00:33:16.639
person I don't know for the next two minutes. I'll give her a diagnosis and I'll write a prescription.

00:33:16.918 --> 00:33:23.376
No, they'd be like, tell her to get an appointment. Yeah. And then they would say, okay, why are you here? Right? Anyway, I know that I've

00:33:23.376 --> 00:33:26.136
I've been going on and on but this is that stuff that I just am so fascinated

00:33:26.136 --> 00:33:30.016
by this as like as a therapist or as a human being this is why it is so I think

00:33:30.016 --> 00:33:34.496
important to actually tell the truth and be authentic because when you're trying

00:33:34.496 --> 00:33:39.936
to be somebody that you're not other people know that you're not being real

00:33:40.153 --> 00:33:45.456
but then what kills me is everybody else is seeing it and nobody would say anything about it till this doctor I looked it up it's actually called

00:33:45.456 --> 00:33:52.616
witness apathy so everybody is witnessing this thing but they're all apathetic they just don't nobody wants to do anything about it and so then the

00:33:52.616 --> 00:33:55.718
a person like Deedee gets away with crap for a long time.

00:33:56.267 --> 00:34:00.496
Right? But I'm imagining this doctor didn't, nobody said, oh, okay, he's right.

00:34:00.496 --> 00:34:01.156
And then they went and stopped her.

00:34:01.536 --> 00:34:05.261
No, they did not. She kept going. So that was in 2007.

00:34:05.536 --> 00:34:09.357
In 2009, an anonymous caller, and so this could have been the doctor,

00:34:09.656 --> 00:34:11.841
could have been a different doctor. We still don't know.

00:34:12.116 --> 00:34:20.384
But an anonymous caller actually reports to the police that they don't think Gypsy is as sick as the mother claims.

00:34:20.616 --> 00:34:24.416
So the police officers do a wellness check to the Blanchard home.

00:34:24.416 --> 00:34:27.576
And once again, Dee Dee is just able to talk her way out of it.

00:34:27.576 --> 00:34:34.428
So basically, they confront Dee Dee about lying about her daughter's age and the birth certificate.

00:34:34.856 --> 00:34:37.471
And all of that stuff. Because remember, it got destroyed in the flood.

00:34:37.736 --> 00:34:42.035
Yeah, and so Dee Dee, in her little evil manipulative mind,

00:34:42.536 --> 00:34:44.268
immediately comes up with the story that,

00:34:44.416 --> 00:34:48.056
gosh, this would be really bad if the story was true and I just let it up like that.

00:34:48.056 --> 00:34:55.907
But anyways, that she had lied about the birth certificate to try to get Rod Blanchard away from them.

00:34:56.970 --> 00:35:03.154
Which, no. No, I was gonna say, no. He's paying you $1,000 a month, like I don't know.

00:35:03.316 --> 00:35:09.620
And this is where I don't, if somebody is this much of a pathological liar and a compulsive liar,

00:35:09.620 --> 00:35:12.597
there aren't gonna be times where, but this time she was telling the truth.

00:35:12.652 --> 00:35:18.220
It doesn't work that way. No, and I'm sure that she like drugged up gypsies so much right before that.

00:35:18.220 --> 00:35:19.620
I truly believe that.

00:35:19.620 --> 00:35:25.620
And even if she didn't, the amount of mental manipulation going on with that is insane.

00:35:25.620 --> 00:35:31.220
A lot of people are like, well, why didn't she just stand up? Right. But it's like if she stood

00:35:31.475 --> 00:35:35.380
up, where would they take her? Her mom was the only person that she had. Her mom, I guarantee

00:35:35.380 --> 00:35:40.343
had been just, just gaslighting up a storm and making her feel like you're nobody without me.

00:35:40.685 --> 00:35:43.860
We already heard that she hits her with a coat hanger if she tries to stand up. You know what's

00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:48.003
crazy, Sid? I love the way you laid out this case in the beginning, because just the fact that I,

00:35:48.500 --> 00:35:55.340
know that it was Gypsy that wrote those posts. I am so conflicted right now

00:35:55.556 --> 00:36:02.470
because I can't stand Dee Dee and Gypsy is getting really evil and now I'm already thinking... Gypsy's not getting evil. No Gypsy's not getting evil but I.

00:36:03.569 --> 00:36:07.380
Have no idea how we're gonna get to where you told us about in the beginning.

00:36:07.380 --> 00:36:11.060
So basically whenever the doctors would tell Dee Dee something that she didn't

00:36:11.060 --> 00:36:14.740
want to hear she would just switch doctors. So that's what she did and just

00:36:14.740 --> 00:36:19.565
moved along to the next one. I kind of want to look at this from Gypsy's perspective for a second,

00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:25.192
right? So she's 19 years old at this point, but she thinks she's 15.

00:36:25.948 --> 00:36:28.660
Like her mom's been telling her she's five years developmentally delayed.

00:36:28.775 --> 00:36:31.940
No, not even that. At this point, she changed her whole birth certificate.

00:36:33.861 --> 00:36:40.820
Okay. So she is a 15 year old. She literally thinks she's 15. I guess she was just going through some stuff in the house or

00:36:40.820 --> 00:36:46.100
something and she came across her Medicaid card. Okay. And it showed her real...

00:36:48.175 --> 00:36:53.549
Wow, so gypsy had been in it for so long. She also believed she was 15. Yes. Wow, what a trip.

00:36:53.702 --> 00:36:57.996
And that's one thing that's really sad about this story is I think she thought she was sick

00:36:58.176 --> 00:37:02.182
until this point. Okay. Pretty much. Yeah. She still thought she was sick. At this point,

00:37:02.345 --> 00:37:09.996
she was just confused because now it's like, why am I 19? Yeah. And why don't you want other people

00:37:10.185 --> 00:37:15.385
to know that? I can't imagine what was going through her head. Me neither. But I think that

00:37:15.385 --> 00:37:17.360
that this was definitely a turning point for her.

00:37:17.954 --> 00:37:21.906
I think she probably started to resent her mom a little bit at this point.

00:37:22.068 --> 00:37:27.524
But I just can't imagine the years of manipulation that were added on top of that, the confusion.

00:37:27.992 --> 00:37:28.883
It's your own mom.

00:37:29.545 --> 00:37:35.077
And she's been living with watching her mom gaslight everybody, not take ownership for anything.

00:37:35.545 --> 00:37:37.905
And that's all she knows. She wasn't allowed to have friends.

00:37:37.905 --> 00:37:39.128
Yeah, her mom's everything.

00:37:39.465 --> 00:37:48.166
2011, Gypsy meets a 35-year-old man at a sci-fi convention because she was into all that, like nerdy stuff.

00:37:48.425 --> 00:37:53.305
Like she loved like Harry Potter, Star Wars. Like she was obsessed with Disney movies, all of that stuff.

00:37:53.305 --> 00:37:59.105
So she meets this 35-year-old man and everyone believed she was 15 at this point.

00:37:59.105 --> 00:38:04.397
So this is not a good guy. That's not good. I know you wanna say her hero, no, a creep.

00:38:04.625 --> 00:38:10.483
But looking at it like that with like Disney movies being her only way of looking at life.

00:38:10.951 --> 00:38:15.425
She was waiting, I feel like she was kind of waiting for her Prince Charming to scoop her up.

00:38:15.425 --> 00:38:17.864
That was the only thing that she was seeing. That's good take.

00:38:18.225 --> 00:38:24.665
Gypsy makes plans to meet up with this guy. So- How did she get out of the house to go to the thing?

00:38:24.665 --> 00:38:31.314
Dee Dee had a computer, so she would use the computer and then she would wait until Dee Dee fell asleep. Wow, okay.

00:38:31.425 --> 00:38:36.220
So Dee Dee falls asleep and Gypsy gets a cab, walks straight out of the house,

00:38:37.225 --> 00:38:43.170
and goes to a motel to meet up with this 35-year-old man. Who thinks she's 15? Who thinks she's 15.

00:38:45.798 --> 00:38:49.665
And I don't know what he's thinking at this point when she walks into his hotel room

00:38:49.665 --> 00:38:54.162
and she was wheeled up to him originally at the science, or sci-fi, whatever.

00:38:54.345 --> 00:38:57.402
Do you ever watch those Chris Hansen to catch a predator?

00:38:57.745 --> 00:38:58.060
Yeah.

00:38:58.565 --> 00:39:02.309
So I'm sure he was just there to warn her. Yeah, right?

00:39:02.625 --> 00:39:07.593
Yeah. No, he knew the whole time. Let her know that this is bad. Right, oh gosh.

00:39:07.765 --> 00:39:14.505
So one of Dee Dee's friends actually saw Gypsy while she was going up to the motel and called Dee Dee.

00:39:14.505 --> 00:39:21.889
So Dee Dee knows now, she marches straight to the motel and I guess she came with paperwork

00:39:22.085 --> 00:39:26.305
showing that her daughter was underage. You know, she meant business. Oh yeah.

00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:31.386
Yeah, so she got her out of there. They got the 19 but 15 year old person

00:39:31.485 --> 00:39:33.305
that has been gas lit her entire life

00:39:33.305 --> 00:39:40.055
and her 35-year-old friend at a motel, and then the crazy mom comes with paperwork

00:39:40.205 --> 00:39:42.441
to show that she's underage, which she's actually not.

00:39:43.071 --> 00:39:50.336
That's a mess. Yeah, a mess. Dee Dee was so mad that I guess she shattered the computer with a hammer.

00:39:50.601 --> 00:39:54.901
Dang, where'd she get a hammer? She said, if you ever do that again,

00:39:54.901 --> 00:40:02.041
I'm gonna smash your fingers with the hammer. She was just absolutely terrifying.

00:40:02.041 --> 00:40:05.559
Gypsy said that she was calling her every name in the book.

00:40:05.841 --> 00:40:07.818
Gypsy called this the bad times.

00:40:08.241 --> 00:40:15.542
Dee Dee took a dog leash and clipped it to a pair of handcuffs and clipped that to Gypsy's bed.

00:40:16.061 --> 00:40:18.576
And left her chained there for two weeks.

00:40:18.781 --> 00:40:24.958
So she's insane. I guess at this point, Dee Dee also convinced the lawyers to draw papers

00:40:25.030 --> 00:40:28.901
that said that Dee Dee was incompetent. So if the police were to come again,

00:40:28.901 --> 00:40:32.529
she could show them the papers and- She's like legally insane.

00:40:32.621 --> 00:40:36.526
So there's like nothing, like at this point Gypsy's already tried to escape.

00:40:36.841 --> 00:40:37.310
It didn't work.

00:40:37.681 --> 00:40:42.594
She's starting to figure out that her whole life at this point has been kind of a sham.

00:40:42.981 --> 00:40:45.581
Yeah, her mom, the one person who's supposed to be protecting her,

00:40:45.581 --> 00:40:50.012
the one who's taking her on all these trips, who's letting her do all these fun things

00:40:50.301 --> 00:40:53.781
is the person who's literally ruining her.

00:40:53.781 --> 00:40:59.181
And I'm sure that slow realization, I'm sure there was denial involved with that.

00:40:59.181 --> 00:41:01.481
And I just thought it's very twisted.

00:41:01.581 --> 00:41:06.234
Dee Dee gets a new computer and Gypsy is sneaking on it again at night.

00:41:06.401 --> 00:41:11.698
You can imagine at this point, The gypsy is completely isolated, she's confused, she's sick.

00:41:12.004 --> 00:41:17.881
And she's got a little taste of the outside world. Just a tiny taste, and it's all through her computer at this point.

00:41:17.881 --> 00:41:21.988
So this online life becomes her entire life.

00:41:22.081 --> 00:41:25.634
This computer is her, like you said, sliver into the outside world.

00:41:25.781 --> 00:41:29.154
She signs up for this Christian dating website.

00:41:29.433 --> 00:41:29.973
Interesting.

00:41:30.381 --> 00:41:34.069
And this is when she meets Nicholas Godejohn.

00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:41.089
And they immediately are like obsessed with each other. They're talking obsessively every single night.

00:41:41.198 --> 00:41:43.089
And this goes on for years.

00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:48.697
Oh, wow. Yeah. So let's talk about Nicholas. Who is Nicholas Godejohn?

00:41:49.129 --> 00:41:56.151
He was born May 20th, 1989 in Wisconsin. I think Big Bend, Wisconsin.

00:41:56.277 --> 00:42:00.355
His parents divorced when he was pretty young. I think like three or four years old.

00:42:00.868 --> 00:42:08.079
And he grew up with his single mom in Missouri. He said that he was always very alone as a child.

00:42:08.565 --> 00:42:12.449
His dad said it was hard for him to make friends. He's just kind of more to himself.

00:42:12.449 --> 00:42:15.089
He was very high on the autism spectrum. Oh, okay.

00:42:15.089 --> 00:42:19.215
So yeah, he was in special education throughout all of his education.

00:42:19.386 --> 00:42:24.369
He said that he was the smartest in his class because I guess his autism was like high functioning.

00:42:25.102 --> 00:42:29.729
So he graduates high school, whatever. I guess he wanted to become a computer engineer.

00:42:29.729 --> 00:42:31.296
So I'm sure he went to college. Yeah.

00:42:31.449 --> 00:42:37.329
I get he said that they weren't like patient enough for him to figure it all out. So he didn't do that.

00:42:38.289 --> 00:42:44.430
He was very lonely um Did you read the next one?

00:42:45.169 --> 00:42:50.209
I mean at the beginning of the episode we already had to click the explicit rating about 15 times, right?

00:42:50.534 --> 00:42:56.209
So is this a quote from a news story that you're about to say or is this your summary? This is charge

00:42:56.367 --> 00:42:59.968
I know I don't know if this is a charge. I don't think that's like what happened

00:43:00.049 --> 00:43:06.109
Okay, but I mean did you interpret what you read and this is your interpretation? Yes, okay.

00:43:07.107 --> 00:43:09.502
He was arrested for,

00:43:11.383 --> 00:43:14.309
Jacking off in a McDonald's for nine hours.

00:43:16.217 --> 00:43:23.869
Just gonna let that one sit I I have so many questions, I don't want to know the answer to a single one of them.

00:43:24.103 --> 00:43:24.670
No, you don't.

00:43:26.183 --> 00:43:32.251
And I guess when they arrested him, he like had a weapon. I don't know if he was doing anything with it, but he had one.

00:43:33.533 --> 00:43:39.413
So yeah, this very interesting guy we've laid out here. Yeah, so he meets Gypsy online

00:43:39.413 --> 00:43:41.784
and they're talking every single night.

00:43:41.893 --> 00:43:45.213
Gypsy and Nick were like in love at this point, but they had never met in person.

00:43:45.213 --> 00:43:46.627
They were only talking online.

00:43:46.733 --> 00:43:51.389
So they plan a little date, but Gypsy knew that Dee Dee would never allow her

00:43:51.470 --> 00:43:55.213
to go out on a date with boys. Boys were completely out of the picture.

00:43:55.213 --> 00:43:58.141
Relationships were not allowed, all of that stuff.

00:43:58.813 --> 00:44:01.832
And of course, when you tell a kid not to do something, that's all they're gonna wanna do.

00:44:02.373 --> 00:44:10.673
So she sends him $400 and he gets a bus ticket and they plan to meet at the Cinderella

00:44:10.673 --> 00:44:13.481
live action movie theater together.

00:44:14.113 --> 00:44:19.053
But Dee Dee's not gonna know. They just planned on like kind of bumping into each other.

00:44:19.053 --> 00:44:20.629
And then- I see, making it look random.

00:44:20.773 --> 00:44:24.076
Yeah, and then I guess Gypsy's hope was that Dee Dee would just be like,

00:44:24.383 --> 00:44:27.813
Oh my God, this is a nice man. Why don't you come home with us?

00:44:27.813 --> 00:44:30.504
You know? Yeah, and stay forever. But obviously that's not what happened.

00:44:31.323 --> 00:44:35.613
So they get into the movie theater and Nicholas approached Dee Dee and Gypsy

00:44:35.680 --> 00:44:37.769
and kind of introduced himself and stuff.

00:44:37.823 --> 00:44:41.208
And Dee Dee was just creeped out by him immediately.

00:44:41.478 --> 00:44:47.456
She was not into it. Dee Dee sits down, like Dee Dee sits down in her seat and then Gypsy sits right next to her.

00:44:47.510 --> 00:44:50.201
And then Nicholas comes and sits right next to Gypsy.

00:44:50.264 --> 00:44:55.305
And Dee Dee was like, no, this guy's weird. Gypsy, come on. So Dee Dee moves like a couple seats down

00:44:55.368 --> 00:44:59.771
and Gypsy just like ignored her and wouldn't go with her, I guess.

00:44:59.870 --> 00:45:04.623
So her and Nick are like holding hands, I guess secretly the whole movie and stuff.

00:45:04.668 --> 00:45:08.476
And then Nick says he's gonna go get popcorn or something.

00:45:08.809 --> 00:45:15.381
And Gypsy says she's gonna go to the bathroom and they meet back in the men's bathroom and have sex.

00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:26.289
So yeah, so then they go back to the movie theater. And this is also how she lost her virginity.

00:45:26.289 --> 00:45:30.090
I don't know, it's just kind of sad. They go back and they finished watching the movie

00:45:30.243 --> 00:45:34.330
and then Dee Dee takes Gypsy home and Gypsy's asking her like,

00:45:34.546 --> 00:45:36.389
so what'd you think about that guy?

00:45:37.058 --> 00:45:39.534
Like, ooh, and Dee Dee's just like, he was a creep.

00:45:40.254 --> 00:45:45.489
Why was he alone in a Cinderella live action movie? Where's his daughter?

00:45:45.489 --> 00:45:49.175
Where's his girlfriend? like, why is he here? And she just would have nothing to do with it.

00:45:49.549 --> 00:45:54.738
So Gypsy just continued to keep it to herself and only talked to him online.

00:45:54.909 --> 00:46:00.549
And their relationship continued to grow and grow. But obviously Gypsy knew that Dee Dee

00:46:00.549 --> 00:46:01.994
would have never approved of it.

00:46:02.109 --> 00:46:08.170
And she soon confides in him that she can walk and that her mom is abusing her.

00:46:08.709 --> 00:46:15.929
So this is like already a trauma bond, essentially, right? Gypsy got in like a specifically really bad fight

00:46:15.929 --> 00:46:20.557
with her mom, I guess. And that's when she confided in him that she was being abused.

00:46:20.649 --> 00:46:23.258
And it's unclear exactly how it was asked.

00:46:23.449 --> 00:46:25.969
There's multiple different accounts from both of them.

00:46:26.183 --> 00:46:31.972
They both have kind of different stories on how this went. But in court, Gypsy says that she asked Nick,

00:46:32.710 --> 00:46:35.753
if he could kill her mom for her. Oh, wow, okay.

00:46:37.449 --> 00:46:42.415
So- And when you say different accounts, and does Nicholas have his own take on that or?

00:46:42.609 --> 00:46:45.673
Well, it's just, it's kind of Gypsy who goes back and forth.

00:46:45.809 --> 00:46:46.475
That I would say.

00:46:46.649 --> 00:46:52.889
Because sometimes she acts like he kind of manipulated her, but then it seems like, I don't know,

00:46:52.889 --> 00:46:55.129
this case is really weird in this sense.

00:46:55.129 --> 00:46:59.449
Well, again, go back to the fact that she was modeled not taking ownership or accountability of anything.

00:46:59.449 --> 00:47:02.849
So maybe in one minute she's like, what was I, I was so abused.

00:47:02.849 --> 00:47:04.929
I mean, what was I supposed to do? In another minute, maybe it's,

00:47:04.929 --> 00:47:08.249
and then Nicholas brought it up and I didn't want to, who knows?

00:47:08.249 --> 00:47:12.437
And yeah, like maybe there, I'm sure there was manipulation. Was it intentional?

00:47:13.169 --> 00:47:14.967
Does that matter if it was intentional, if it happened?

00:47:15.749 --> 00:47:22.189
I don't know, it's like this case was really throwing me for a loop for the fact that there are a lot of kind

00:47:22.189 --> 00:47:26.075
of inconsistencies with that, and it really like.

00:47:27.354 --> 00:47:30.004
Makes you fight for what side you're on. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it.

00:47:30.004 --> 00:47:34.231
I feel like everyone was a victim. Yeah. Genuinely. I feel bad for Nick.

00:47:35.044 --> 00:47:38.564
I feel bad for Gypsy. I feel bad for Dee Dee because who knows what I just,

00:47:38.564 --> 00:47:41.044
it's just all bad. It is, it really is.

00:47:42.297 --> 00:47:48.113
Nicholas had this thing he called his dark side. He had like different characters,

00:47:49.157 --> 00:47:52.227
and Gypsy would make up characters to match his characters.

00:47:52.484 --> 00:47:57.364
So they would like kind of role play together. Okay. they had like a bunch of different ones.

00:47:57.364 --> 00:48:01.904
Like Gypsy had like six different characters for like all of her different moods.

00:48:01.904 --> 00:48:05.884
And then he had his own characters that like corresponded to that, if that makes sense.

00:48:05.884 --> 00:48:14.651
Like she had like Bunny and like Bella and like one of them was like sexy and one of them was like evil.

00:48:14.764 --> 00:48:18.037
And one of them was like, you know, she had all these different personalities.

00:48:18.344 --> 00:48:26.823
And I kind of think that, I don't know, I think maybe he was using that to kind of take himself out of the murder.

00:48:28.164 --> 00:48:30.884
Like saying, oh, it's my dark side doing it, not me.

00:48:31.198 --> 00:48:37.684
Yeah, this is, we go back to the things that people say that they don't know is really a silly thing to say.

00:48:37.684 --> 00:48:40.308
So if somebody literally has dissociative identity disorder,

00:48:40.724 --> 00:48:45.284
they're not gonna have that kind of awareness even to blame it on their other personality

00:48:45.284 --> 00:48:47.726
because they're just gonna slip in and out of their other personality.

00:48:48.124 --> 00:48:53.946
So if they're like, oh man, it's my alter ego, Kevin, You know, it's kind of not the way it works.

00:48:54.444 --> 00:48:58.267
You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, so I feel like that's one where he's looking for excuses.

00:48:58.484 --> 00:49:03.004
He was also very into BDSM, so he was kind of bringing her into that.

00:49:03.004 --> 00:49:06.784
And just so I, Gypsy, this is her first relationship ever.

00:49:06.924 --> 00:49:07.828
Yeah. Bye-bye.

00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:13.609
I don't know. She could be easily manipulated. I mean, that's obvious, but also she could be

00:49:13.609 --> 00:49:16.614
manipulating him. It's just awesome. You're right. It's all bad.

00:49:16.731 --> 00:49:22.489
They began talking more and more about this murder and how they're going to do it.

00:49:23.168 --> 00:49:28.489
When they're going to do it. They went through like a million different ways of doing in their

00:49:28.489 --> 00:49:33.689
head. Nicholas says later, like at first we thought about poisoning her, but we didn't

00:49:33.689 --> 00:49:39.929
know how to. He wanted to do it with a gun, but he didn't want it to be too loud. And then there's

00:49:39.929 --> 00:49:47.609
one account where Gypsy says that Nicholas told her that he wanted to stab Didi, like specifically

00:49:47.609 --> 00:49:53.443
stab her. But then Nicholas in another account says that, oh, he just was doing that because,

00:49:53.892 --> 00:49:58.969
they wanted to do the quickest way with the least pain. So there's just so much back and forth.

00:49:58.969 --> 00:49:59.591
So many stories, yeah.

00:49:59.771 --> 00:50:01.689
But we do have the text messages.

00:50:02.013 --> 00:50:08.089
Oh, really? Yeah, the text messages show that it was very, very premeditated.

00:50:08.134 --> 00:50:10.268
Let's move on to the night of the murder. Okay.

00:50:10.511 --> 00:50:18.955
So June 9th, Gypsy and her mom actually get in an argument, and Gypsy says that Dee Dee's last words to her were,

00:50:19.324 --> 00:50:22.889
don't hurt me, which is just kind of crazy. Oh, wow.

00:50:23.249 --> 00:50:31.270
Yeah, so Gypsy leaves the door unlocked, and at 2am she texts Nick that she's ready to go.

00:50:31.459 --> 00:50:34.763
They go back and forth a couple of times. He asks if Dee Dee's a light sleeper.

00:50:35.240 --> 00:50:36.089
The way they talk is...

00:50:36.743 --> 00:50:41.449
It's so cold? It's very creepy. He's the master and she's like...

00:50:42.433 --> 00:50:44.485
I guess that's what they were into. Sub? Yeah.

00:50:44.649 --> 00:50:49.896
So it's just very weird vibes. Gypsy brings him the supplies. I think it was duct tape

00:50:50.202 --> 00:50:56.116
and the knife. And he orders her to go to the bathroom. So Gypsy goes into the bathroom and

00:50:56.329 --> 00:50:58.969
she said she curled up in a ball and just waited.

00:50:59.681 --> 00:51:04.956
At this point, Nick says that there was an angel and a devil on his shoulder, I guess.

00:51:05.649 --> 00:51:08.341
And he said that the angel said, take her and run.

00:51:09.215 --> 00:51:12.617
And that the devil said, that bitch is dead. Wow.

00:51:12.915 --> 00:51:18.824
And he said that in that moment, he listened to the devil, I guess, for whatever reason. Yeah.

00:51:19.018 --> 00:51:21.784
Which it's like, why are you even saying that? Because you're literally saying that in the

00:51:21.784 --> 00:51:23.447
moment you thought about not doing it.

00:51:23.807 --> 00:51:27.064
Well, and I think that's the part where he thinks that people are going to go,

00:51:27.064 --> 00:51:33.224
oh my gosh, you were possessed by these two forces and poor you, the devil got the best of

00:51:33.224 --> 00:51:38.076
you. But you're right. He's literally, that is not the way, I feel that's not the way that works. No. Yeah.

00:51:38.424 --> 00:51:46.754
No, so he listens to the devil, I guess. And he goes into Dede's bedroom where she's sleeping,

00:51:47.573 --> 00:51:55.464
and he begins to stab her. And I guess she woke up and she was like, who are you?

00:51:56.225 --> 00:52:01.464
And he said, your worst nightmare or something. Like he thinks he's- Cliched line.

00:52:01.464 --> 00:52:05.875
He really thinks he's like Freddy Krueger or something, like get off your high horse. Oh my

00:52:06.109 --> 00:52:13.944
God. So then she cries out for Gypsy and Gypsy said that she heard it in the bathroom and she just

00:52:13.944 --> 00:52:25.304
waited there for it to be over and he continued to stab her 14 times and she dies and then he

00:52:25.304 --> 00:52:32.504
goes over to Gypsy in the bathroom and I guess she takes a shower and shaves her.

00:52:33.368 --> 00:52:37.248
For important areas, and then they have sex in the house.

00:52:41.984 --> 00:52:45.854
While she's still there, Devi's dead. Yeah. That's wild.

00:52:46.184 --> 00:52:52.452
And there was, again, one account, and this is horrible if this is true,

00:52:52.584 --> 00:52:58.424
where there was a woman who had a child, and she had a child, and she had a baby,

00:52:53.902 --> 00:53:04.210
Gypsy said that Nicholas told her that he wanted to rape Dede and she was like, no, please don't do this rape me instead and

00:52:58.424 --> 00:53:00.077
and she had a baby, and she had a baby.

00:53:04.972 --> 00:53:08.081
Then that's where that happened Okay

00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:14.252
And then it's just it is all just so confusing because then they go and run off to a motel together

00:53:14.252 --> 00:53:20.852
Is that the Facebook post? No, not yet. Okay, so then they go off to a motel together and they're like,

00:53:21.485 --> 00:53:22.727
like seemingly in love.

00:53:23.673 --> 00:53:29.875
Like there's videos that come out of them like just giggling and laughing right after. Oh.

00:53:30.550 --> 00:53:34.172
Yeah, it's all very- I don't even know what to think. Crazy.

00:53:34.172 --> 00:53:40.363
Yeah, now we're getting into the world of like what, psychopathy, I mean, psychopath kind of a vibe or I don't know.

00:53:40.572 --> 00:53:46.106
Oh, I forgot to mention that Gypsy said that Nick then asked her to clean up naked

00:53:46.372 --> 00:53:48.212
because it like turned him on or something.

00:53:48.212 --> 00:53:53.752
Oh man. And then they clean up with literally like paper towels and some cleaner and like rags,

00:53:53.752 --> 00:53:55.829
just like don't really do that great of a job.

00:53:56.270 --> 00:54:00.792
And then they just go off to the motel. So I think they spent the night there

00:54:00.792 --> 00:54:03.732
and they got $4,000 out from the bank.

00:54:04.392 --> 00:54:10.178
And then they went to the post office and mailed the murder weapon to Nicholas's house in Missouri.

00:54:10.912 --> 00:54:14.032
I just wanna ask why, but- I guess Gypsy thought that if they got caught

00:54:14.032 --> 00:54:15.652
with it on the train, they would get in trouble.

00:54:16.291 --> 00:54:22.007
Oh, so mail it. I guess, yeah. They get on a Greyhound bus and they take it back

00:54:22.072 --> 00:54:25.905
to Missouri where Nicholas's mom picks them up at 3 a.m.

00:54:25.972 --> 00:54:31.472
Nicholas tells her that Gypsy's this homeless girl who just like got in a fight with her mom

00:54:31.472 --> 00:54:34.286
and that she just needs somewhere to stay for a couple days.

00:54:34.392 --> 00:54:40.072
And Nicholas's mom says she remembers just being like, what is going on?

00:54:40.072 --> 00:54:44.630
Because I guess Gypsy just ended up staying there for like multiple days.

00:54:44.792 --> 00:54:48.472
And she said that one time Gypsy like walked down in her kitchen and was like,

00:54:48.472 --> 00:54:52.352
don't worry, I'll clean up after, I'll clean everything up. I'm gonna get a job today.

00:54:52.352 --> 00:54:53.641
And the mom was just like, what?

00:54:53.832 --> 00:54:56.972
Who is this girl? This homeless girl, now she's moving in? Yeah.

00:54:57.472 --> 00:55:01.752
And I guess Nicholas's dad said that the only thing weird that he could tell

00:55:01.914 --> 00:55:09.272
from the situation was that she was wearing a really obvious wig because she had a shaved head

00:55:09.552 --> 00:55:12.069
and maybe she was trying to hide her identity or something.

00:55:12.123 --> 00:55:17.686
So they're just hanging out at Nicholas's house and Gypsy starts to feel guilty

00:55:17.752 --> 00:55:21.476
because they hadn't seen anything come out on the news about her mom.

00:55:22.752 --> 00:55:26.352
So Gypsy just knew that she was just sitting there and nobody knew anything about it.

00:55:26.352 --> 00:55:29.443
Wow, okay, so this has been a few days. It's been- Nothing's, okay.

00:55:29.713 --> 00:55:30.569
Four days at this point.

00:55:30.872 --> 00:55:38.374
So it's June 14th, and this is when Gypsy puts out the Facebook post that says this bitch is dead.

00:55:39.607 --> 00:55:46.304
And I'm trying to remember, it's been a whole day. Was it on the mom's Facebook account?

00:55:46.577 --> 00:55:50.679
Yeah, so they had like a shared mom daughter Facebook account.

00:55:50.777 --> 00:55:56.897
That post goes out and everyone in the community is absolutely horrified and confused, as you can imagine.

00:55:57.125 --> 00:56:02.616
Like nobody knows what to do. So the neighbors, I guess Gypsy had like,

00:56:03.121 --> 00:56:05.097
the tiniest connection with this neighbor girl.

00:56:05.097 --> 00:56:09.097
Like she barely ever got to see her, but they had spoken a couple times.

00:56:09.097 --> 00:56:14.301
So this neighbor girl and the mom go over to the house and I guess they call the police

00:56:14.397 --> 00:56:19.685
and then I guess one of them went through the window, which is like, what are you doing going on the crime scene?

00:56:19.837 --> 00:56:22.367
But they saw that like Gypsy's wheelchair was empty.

00:56:23.017 --> 00:56:28.003
So now everyone's in even more of a panic because it's like, this girl doesn't have her meds,

00:56:28.197 --> 00:56:33.809
she doesn't have her legs, she's like, it's just everyone is in a panic.

00:56:33.957 --> 00:56:39.797
So the police arrive at the crime scene And they walk inside and I guess one police officer said

00:56:40.048 --> 00:56:42.920
that at first everything seemed normal.

00:56:43.037 --> 00:56:50.869
They go inside the bedroom and immediately they're faced with just a horrible, brutal, awful crime scene.

00:56:51.357 --> 00:56:56.297
Dee Dee's laying face down in her own bed, just- Stabbed. Yes.

00:56:56.297 --> 00:56:57.602
14 times, is that what you said?

00:56:57.757 --> 00:57:03.535
Mm-hmm. So police get to investigating immediately. And I guess that little neighbor girl had told them

00:57:03.617 --> 00:57:07.777
that Gypsy had told them that she had been talking to a guy online.

00:57:07.777 --> 00:57:12.197
And this little girl also knew about, I guess this Facebook profile,

00:57:12.708 --> 00:57:15.958
that Nicholas and Gypsy actually shared together.

00:57:16.177 --> 00:57:20.977
So they would talk on this like personal account just for like them two, I guess.

00:57:20.977 --> 00:57:25.122
And so the police go into this account and from there they're able to track,

00:57:25.600 --> 00:57:30.794
like the IP address from all the posts back to Nicholas's house.

00:57:31.057 --> 00:57:37.743
And they've got him basically, right? So they go straight to Missouri to arrest Nicholas.

00:57:38.397 --> 00:57:42.937
And I think it was late at night, him and Gypsy were sleeping in bed,

00:57:43.577 --> 00:57:46.357
and he said that he just remembers them banging on the door,

00:57:46.357 --> 00:57:48.789
Nicholas, go to Joan, come out, we're arresting you.

00:57:49.097 --> 00:57:53.821
They didn't even know Gypsy was there at this point. So him and Gypsy run into the closet,

00:57:54.237 --> 00:57:59.610
and they're trying to get their story straight at this point, like what they're gonna say to the police.

00:57:59.737 --> 00:58:03.616
And then he said that Gypsy just got up and walked out with her hands up.

00:58:04.354 --> 00:58:11.244
And it was just, the police were shocked to see this girl walking, to see her here alive.

00:58:11.244 --> 00:58:14.212
It was baffling to everyone.

00:58:14.364 --> 00:58:20.164
So they are both arrested at this point. I watched both of their full interrogation clips.

00:58:20.164 --> 00:58:22.530
Oh, I wanna watch that. We'll put the links in the notes.

00:58:22.804 --> 00:58:28.644
They're just, it's crazy to see. So they both start with this fake story,

00:58:29.308 --> 00:58:31.352
that Gypsy just ran away from her mom,

00:58:31.804 --> 00:58:34.944
and they just got in a fight And they both try to like play it off,

00:58:35.421 --> 00:58:38.680
like they have no idea that Gypsy's mom is even dead.

00:58:38.924 --> 00:58:42.884
But Nick, he gives it away pretty fast, unfortunately for him.

00:58:42.884 --> 00:58:43.964
And they get him talking.

00:58:44.104 --> 00:58:47.684
Gypsy, she plays it off completely. They're like, your mom's dead.

00:58:47.684 --> 00:58:51.679
And she's like, what? Like she puts on her Oscar winning performance. She's a pro.

00:58:51.944 --> 00:58:57.242
Yeah. And this is kind of where a lot of media took it and was like, Gypsy is a demon kind of thing

00:58:57.524 --> 00:58:58.728
because she's doing this.

00:58:59.502 --> 00:59:04.993
But again, she was raised by a master manipulator. So.

00:59:05.244 --> 00:59:08.324
And that's like, at what point do you, where's the accountability lie?

00:59:08.324 --> 00:59:10.404
Cause then it sounded like Dee Dee's mom was the same.

00:59:10.924 --> 00:59:15.724
And then it was Dee Dee and then it was Gypsy. Not that it makes it right, but that's crazy.

00:59:15.724 --> 00:59:21.524
And then you have to imagine at this point, like she's just gonna say whatever she can to get out of jail.

00:59:22.017 --> 00:59:26.212
Yeah, absolutely. She went from one prison to another, you know? Oh, that's deep.

00:59:26.724 --> 00:59:30.204
You just got the title of the podcast right there. from a video.

00:59:30.204 --> 00:59:34.204
Okay, but you said it so good. That was so good. So what happened?

00:59:34.204 --> 00:59:36.204
So they get arrested, were they tried separate, I would imagine?

00:59:36.204 --> 00:59:38.204
Yeah, they were tried separately.

00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:42.204
In Gypsy's trial, she got 10 years in prison.

00:59:43.100 --> 00:59:48.303
8 until she could get parole. parole? That does not seem like a lot.

00:59:47.970 --> 00:59:52.620
Does it? I don't think she should be in prison at all. Okay, see I'm now going back and forth because,

00:59:53.480 --> 00:59:57.099
so you don't think she really had any like do you feel like she was just manipulated the whole time?

00:59:57.404 --> 01:00:05.020
I think that she went through 17 years of 18, 19, 24 years of child abuse. The prison one prison to

01:00:05.020 --> 01:00:12.060
the next? She had no yeah she had no other option like she had the police come into her house and

01:00:12.060 --> 01:00:17.180
Didi talked them out of it you know what I mean? She tried to escape and Didi chained her to a bed.

01:00:17.180 --> 01:00:21.020
Yes, yes, yes. It's almost like you could almost argue the self-defense.

01:00:21.918 --> 01:00:26.620
Yeah. I just feel like she, it was her last resort and it wasn't okay, obviously.

01:00:26.620 --> 01:00:30.780
But, oh gosh. Yeah. I almost wanted to say, Sid, edit out that part where I'm like,

01:00:30.780 --> 01:00:33.660
that's not enough, but we're being real, right?

01:00:33.660 --> 01:00:39.260
No, no. Well, it's confusing. It is. And I appreciate that because it is the thing where like, you could argue,

01:00:39.260 --> 01:00:43.091
I feel like you could argue self-defense and then if she wouldn't have done it,

01:00:43.370 --> 01:00:44.298
I mean, she would have died.

01:00:45.378 --> 01:00:52.678
Yes. Yeah. Someone was gonna die. And that's again what I feel like we were talking about earlier was like it was never gonna have a happy ending. No, it wasn't.

01:00:52.778 --> 01:00:58.700
Unless somebody would have- Because Dee Dee was never gonna have her aha moment. It was gonna get worse.

01:00:58.700 --> 01:01:02.700
Dude, it's- it was never gonna have a happy ending unless an adult stepped in.

01:01:03.193 --> 01:01:07.700
And no adult ever stepped in and Gypsy, a child, had to figure out how to save herself.

01:01:07.700 --> 01:01:08.700
Wow, look at it that way.

01:01:08.700 --> 01:01:12.690
That way. And like with all these years of manipulation being built on top of her,

01:01:13.060 --> 01:01:18.956
I don't really, and these Disney movies too, not to Disney, but like, just like this fantasy land

01:01:19.100 --> 01:01:23.484
of like, I need my Prince, I want my Prince Charming to save me and to kill the evil witch.

01:01:23.900 --> 01:01:30.140
Whoa. It's really, I just can't, I have a hard time not being on her side. I wish they would

01:01:30.140 --> 01:01:37.580
have sent her to somewhere where she could have gotten an education and therapy and-

01:01:37.735 --> 01:01:39.100
So she's still...

01:01:39.100 --> 01:01:40.940
Yeah. Okay. She's still in jail.

01:01:41.900 --> 01:01:45.495
She just got married. Oh, wow. In jail. So go off.

01:01:46.953 --> 01:01:52.553
Nicholas Godojohn, he got life in prison. Okay. And he, to this day, is still in love with Gypsy.

01:01:53.192 --> 01:01:55.660
In one of his jailhouse interviews, it was just kind of eerie.

01:01:55.660 --> 01:01:59.020
He said that if he had to, he would do it again.

01:01:59.835 --> 01:02:01.580
But he would do it differently.

01:02:02.482 --> 01:02:13.762
And when asked how he would do it differently, I guess he said that their alternative plan was to get Gypsy pregnant so that Dee Dee would

01:02:14.149 --> 01:02:19.379
be forced to allow Nick into the family. So he said that's- and maybe he could have rescued her from within,

01:02:19.820 --> 01:02:21.144
kind of a thing, was his thought.

01:02:22.098 --> 01:02:25.028
That's not what he said though. He just literally wanted to have a baby.

01:02:25.028 --> 01:02:30.068
And it's like, no, the right thing would have been to tell someone and get her out of that situation, right?

01:02:30.068 --> 01:02:31.902
Maybe not baby trap. Yeah.

01:02:32.788 --> 01:02:38.923
Sid, I really appreciate the way you summed that up at the end because I'm kind of reeling a little bit

01:02:39.068 --> 01:02:44.262
because if I really look at it from her being abused her entire life, it really does.

01:02:44.488 --> 01:02:46.872
It's like, she's gonna get out of there however she can.

01:02:47.268 --> 01:02:51.888
And I work with so many people that are in emotionally or physically or financially

01:02:51.888 --> 01:02:57.488
or sexually abusive relationships, that then we talk about trauma and the body keeps the score.

01:02:57.488 --> 01:03:00.520
And so sometimes when people try to go back into bad relationships,

01:03:00.968 --> 01:03:04.268
they literally will like, I've had people that they've had strokes,

01:03:04.268 --> 01:03:06.380
they've had heart attacks, they get high blood pressure.

01:03:06.768 --> 01:03:10.854
And so it's like their body eventually is gonna say, I don't know how else to get your attention.

01:03:11.368 --> 01:03:14.088
And if you are gonna keep going back in there, something's gonna happen.

01:03:14.088 --> 01:03:19.008
So in a weird way, it's almost like Gypsy's whole, you know, body keeps the score

01:03:19.008 --> 01:03:22.557
or a way to deal with trauma is she will do anything to get out of it,

01:03:23.108 --> 01:03:26.861
including murder or have her mom murdered.

01:03:27.168 --> 01:03:28.940
Yeah. Yeah, and that breaks my heart.

01:03:30.155 --> 01:03:35.025
It's, yeah, it's like sad that the stakes were that high. Yeah, it's almost like her body, her brain,

01:03:35.208 --> 01:03:38.266
whatever was saying, there's only way I can get out of this.

01:03:38.448 --> 01:03:41.435
Her mom like created this.

01:03:41.688 --> 01:03:47.768
Like, not to be like she should have seen it coming, but it's like, you raised that child,

01:03:48.412 --> 01:03:53.516
like she was gonna grow up and be the product of what you raised.

01:03:53.648 --> 01:03:58.134
And inevitably that was manipulative and you got murdered.

01:04:00.448 --> 01:04:02.968
I don't know where I'm going with that. But do you know what I'm saying?

01:04:02.968 --> 01:04:05.868
Yes, I know. Oh, 100% I do. I was letting you go there

01:04:05.868 --> 01:04:07.938
because I thought you were about to say this dramatic thing

01:04:08.328 --> 01:04:10.792
and drop the mic and walk out. No, not that.

01:04:11.648 --> 01:04:15.088
But I think that's pretty much it. Leaves you with a weird feeling.

01:04:15.088 --> 01:04:17.345
It does, but it leaves me, it does honestly leave me thinking.

01:04:17.448 --> 01:04:21.448
And I appreciate you doing all your research. I once just want to say again, like, I don't know.

01:04:21.448 --> 01:04:23.494
Everyone's a victim. I feel bad already.

01:04:23.688 --> 01:04:26.104
Like, it's like, it's like.

01:04:27.437 --> 01:04:32.727
Didi, Gypsy was a victim of Didi, who was a victim of her mom,

01:04:32.727 --> 01:04:38.967
and Nick was a victim of Gypsy, but I don't even wanna say that because he also manipulated her.

01:04:38.967 --> 01:04:42.849
Well, and Nick came from his own pretty crappy childhood as well.

01:04:42.967 --> 01:04:44.370
Everybody's a mess.

01:04:44.568 --> 01:04:46.215
Syd, thanks for all the work you did.

01:04:46.447 --> 01:04:50.607
Murder on the Couch, episode three, in the books. Should we tell a knock-knock joke?

01:04:50.607 --> 01:04:53.705
Like, how do we bring the vibes home? Do you know a good knock-knock joke? No.

01:04:54.092 --> 01:04:56.235
Have you used chat GBT much at all?

01:04:56.767 --> 01:05:02.933
No. Okay, I actually a bit asked it to tell me jokes. So should we end it with like artificial intelligence

01:05:02.986 --> 01:05:06.867
telling a joke? No, it's gonna be stupid. It's not, they're like really good

01:05:06.867 --> 01:05:11.053
and you can be really specific about it too. So watch this, are you ready?

01:05:11.476 --> 01:05:14.860
Okay, chat GBT, what do you want the knock knock joke to be about?

01:05:14.947 --> 01:05:17.907
I did one the other day and I said, give me a narcissist knock knock joke

01:05:17.907 --> 01:05:19.317
and it came back with one right away.

01:05:20.547 --> 01:05:25.258
Okay, so let's see if we can get it to tell a, oh, what about, I was gonna say,

01:05:25.474 --> 01:05:27.572
Do we do a knock-knock joke about murder?

01:05:28.707 --> 01:05:32.067
Or it might say that that's not very funny. Okay, here we go.

01:05:32.067 --> 01:05:35.350
You can do whatever you want, but nobody's watching anymore.

01:05:35.427 --> 01:05:40.445
Yes, they are. Tell me a knock-knock joke about true crime.

01:05:40.547 --> 01:05:43.467
The building. They're not, they're here. Watch this, watch this artificial intelligence.

01:05:43.467 --> 01:05:44.802
I don't blame you guys, it's okay. Here we go.

01:05:45.507 --> 01:05:50.870
Knock-knock, who's there? Ted, Ted who? Ted Bundy Lee murdered punchlines,

01:05:50.924 --> 01:05:54.750
but this joke is killer. Wow, that did not even make any sense.

01:05:54.947 --> 01:05:57.927
Okay, but watch this. Generate the response. Okay, here we go.

01:05:58.656 --> 01:06:03.023
Here we go. Knock, knock, who's there? Ted, Ted who?

01:06:03.387 --> 01:06:08.647
Ted Bundy, but don't worry, I'm just kidding. Let's stick to the lighter side of true crime jokes. Shall we?

01:06:09.162 --> 01:06:14.387
That's not even funny. That literally is not a joke. That's not a joke at all.

01:06:14.387 --> 01:06:18.067
Okay, tell me a joke about chips.

01:06:18.160 --> 01:06:38.697
Music.

01:06:38.672 --> 01:06:18.155
Game.