Hey, Sid. Hey, Dad. So we're getting a little bit of a late start tonight.
I feel like there's tension in the air right now.
Okay, I feel as the therapist that you are projecting tension onto me because I feel perfectly calm.
But tell me more about your experience with tension. I had a little bit of a day today.
Okay, everybody. I may have ran out of gas on the side of the road right before this. So may.
I'm curious just how many times you've ran out of gas in your life?
That's a funny question, maybe like five.
Okay.
Is this not a universal experience? Have you never done that before?
I think I did one time.
See, that's the difference, is people do it one time and then they learn.
And I haven't, something hasn't clicked yet. And it's like really beginning to be a problem.
I love when you were telling me though, the story you were talking about talking to yourself
and it sounded like you were even talking to yourself in the third person saying,
Sydney, you need to get gas, Sydney.
Oh yeah, no, it was kind of embarrassing. And then you have to like stand there
on the side of the road for so long and all the cars are passing and it's so bad every time.
But I will tell you, as far as the concept of PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder,
and so when you called, my immediate panic is, okay, you got in an accident, so then you were okay
and you're always good to say, I'm safe. I don't know if you said that, but I heard that in my head.
And then I thought I saw flashing lights, which you did the right thing, it was your hazards, right?
So then I went from, okay, she's not in an accident, okay, she got pulled over.
So then by the time I figure out you just ran out of gas, oh, that's a joy.
I can't wait to go and save you, you know? I'm glad.
Yeah, and then your cousin Connor was with us and he figured out how to work the gas can.
Yeah, thankfully. I'm not the most handy person in the world. So that was nice.
I just, I had a day. So I was 45 minutes late because I was doing my laundry
all so I could wear this shirt and then I didn't wash this shirt.
So I like, if I smell weird, I'm sorry, everybody.
Or I'm sorry to you, I guess. I was going to say, I think that was at fourth dimension, smell-o-vision, I don't think that
has been perfected yet.
So yeah, I'm not, I'm kind of going through it, but I do this, I do, I'm prepared in one
place in my life and it's for this case that we're going to be talking about today.
Okay. And I am excited because I know nothing about the case that we're going to talk about today,
except for the one I looked over on your screen once you went through the 15 tabs to figure out the one that.
I also, wait, introduction. I also forgot shoes.
Like I'm literally like, I don't know what's going on.
Okay.
I was barefoot on the side of the freeway. Did you not see that? No one addressed it.
No one addressed it at all. Okay, so I feel like shoes are just things you just put on before you leave the house.
Yeah, and I feel like gas is something you put in your car before you get on the highway,
but look where we are. You know, but we're here, Syd. Welcome to episode three of Murder on the Couch.
The feedback has been really good. How do you do with positive feedback? Because your cousin Connor
was telling you good feedback, and I feel like you were not... Do you believe it? Or do you feel
like I'm paying him to do that.
No, I don't know. I just don't like compliments. They're so like, I'm just like waiting for them to end,
you know, but I do really appreciate them.
Yeah. But it's like in my head immediately, I'm like, oh, how am I gonna react to this?
Like, what am I gonna say? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
But maybe that's just the thing. I don't know. No, I feel like as, here's my little therapist hat on,
I think people want people to recognize or acknowledge them,
but then when somebody actually does, then it's super uncomfortable.
So they wanna get rid of that discomfort, Sid. I guess so, yeah.
Yeah, but I've got really good feedback.
And we've actually had a couple of people, here's where I wanna use narcissistic math.
And said thousands of people have responded and asked why are we not doing the Lori Ballo case?
Oh, we are going to do it. We are, we are so gonna do that, because I could talk about that all day.
We've got narcissistic family systems, we've got a little bit of sociopathy,
we've got narcissism.
I mean, there's so many things. So actually, I did a podcast yesterday
on my Waking Up to Narcissism podcast,
and I used a little bit of Daybell stuff in there about when people think that they are smart
and they know things when they are completely not smart and they are saying really dumb things.
So I will not say more. So people need to go listen to that episode on waking up to narcissism.
But what are we talking about today? So today we're talking about the story
of Gypsy Rose Blanchard and- I see, I don't know the story.
It's another instance where the system just completely failed this girl.
There were so many times where it should have gone differently than it did.
It's weird, I don't even know how to explain it.
It's almost like this mother kidnapped her own daughter, in a sense.
We're going to be talking about Munchausen by Proxy.
Munchausen by Proxy. Which, which, okay, nerd stuff here, Munchausen by Proxy was renamed in the latest Diagnostic
and Statistic Manual to Fictitious Disorder, so that'll give us a little heads up on what
we're maybe going to be talking about. They changed it to that? Yeah. Why?
Okay. So this is kind of a funny thing. If you even look at things like,
have you ever heard of Asperger's? Yeah, actually someone in this case has that.
Okay. So Asperger's is no longer Asperger's. It's on the autism spectrum. So it's autism
spectrum disorder. So we no longer call it Asperger's and Munchausen by proxy,
or even Munchausen disorder was named after Baron von Munchausen. So, okay.
Let's get into a little bit of me thinking. I know what I'm talking about. So I think that
the reason Asperger's was renamed was because the person it was named after turned out to,
not be a good person, but I may be defaming his name. And I think that, you know, we don't want
to talk about Baron von Munchausen for some reason. I don't know if he was eventually found
for war crimes. I don't know. But so now we just put it as fictitious disorder.
So basically like nothing about it changed, just the name that they slapped on top of it.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, let's get into the case. Let's do it.
Let's start by talking about Gypsy Rose Blanchard.
Music.
So, who was Gypsy? She was born on July 27th, 1991. Wait, when were you born?
Whoa, asking me a lot of questions right now.
Wait, weren't you around that time frame? 2002. Oh.
So, kind of. Okay, no. Okay, okay. I knew when you were born.
Yeah, you're the one who you didn't birth me. No, I did not.
Anyways, Gypsy was given a very tough hand of cards. Is that the way you say it?
She was dealt a tough hand. Yeah.
Yeah, she had a lot of medical issues. So she had asthma, epilepsy.
She was hearing impaired, vision impaired, fed with a feeding tube all the time.
Wow. She had muscular dystrophy, paralyzed from the waist down.
So she was always in a wheelchair and she was mentally handicapped.
So she had the brain of a child or like a teenager.
And was this from the time of birth? It started when she was like three months old. She had sleep apnea.
Like it just seemed like this child had every single ailment that existed.
So it was just a really sad, sad story.
And kind of the angel in her story, I guess, was her mother.
Her mother was Claudine Blanchard and she goes by Dee Dee. So we're gonna refer to her as Dee Dee.
Okay, Dee Dee is Gypsy Rose's mom.
Yes.
Dee Dee basically just dedicated her entire life to caring for Gypsy.
I know I should like be on edge cause there's some nefarious turn is gonna happen
cause the way we're talking about right now, you said it's her angel, it's her mom,
her kid has all these problems.
So right now I'm a fan of Dee Dee. Yeah, everyone is. Everyone in the community loves Dee Dee.
They would get like free charity trips and stuff.
They would get like money sent to them all the time because everyone just wanted to see this daughter be okay.
And another part of it was Gypsy was like, She had the light of.
I don't know where I'm going with this, but she was a really good, like, she was really,
really. Radiated positive energy. That, that, like in all the videos I saw of her, like she was always in a hospital bed,
I swear, always. But she was always smiling.
Wow.
And always just like, yep, I'm going to get my second surgery of the week. Just crazy
stuff like that. Her attitude was always just that of someone who was so happy. And I think
that's part of why the community was so moved by this story was because she was given like
the shittiest set of cards ever and she was trading it like.
I'm making the best of it. This is what, this is my lot in life. And then it sounds like Deedee
was a saint. So the end of the story. So now for that terrifying turn. Okay.
And it gets dark right away. So. Oh, okay.
Just warning everybody with that. It's interesting though. So when you said, so they were probably raising money,
giving money, like the make a wish stuff going on trips.
Yeah. All that stuff. And we'll get into it with more detail, but yeah,
they had a free house, like free. Really? Everything.
So before we get into the serious stuff, can I tell you a funny story that I don't think I've
ever talked about? Yeah.
So when I was in college, I worked at a chain of video stores, which I don't know,
do you remember going to video stores? No.
At all? No. Connor? I don't think I've ever been inside a video store.
Well, I don't think they exist anymore. Blockbuster, yeah. So I worked for a chain
of video stores. It was a dream job for me. I was getting paid minimum wage, $3.25 an hour.
This is like one of those that sounds like a really old person, right? But there was a guy
one time and he thought he was going to be hilarious and his name was Mike. I haven't
talked to him in 35 years, but he took a picture of his little brother and he put it on a jar and
he said like, help get little Dickie get a spinal transplant. And he put it just to be funny.
Little Dickie?
Yeah. And people put money in that thing like crazy. And then I felt like it was so wrong,
but people like, oh my gosh. And I remember one time I was checking some lady out, getting videos
And her little daughter said, look, mommy, it's Richard.
Because she went to school with him, you know?
And then there was another person one time that said, man, it's amazing what
they can do with the modern medicine these days, a spinal transplant.
But I mean, I just think of that guy within a day or two, that little cash jar was loaded.
So, I can only imagine if somebody is radiating positivity and their mom's just saying, man,
I'm going to devote my life to helping my daughter that they could have just raised a ton of money.
Yeah, and we'll get into it more, but what brings someone to be okay with like the morality behind that is what I really don't understand.
I have thoughts. thoughts. How don't you feel so guilty and so...
But anyways, okay, getting back to the case, jumping pretty much to the crime scene.
June 14th, 2015, a horrific post is posted on DeeDee's Facebook account.
The post reads, and this is really twisted and not cool, so just letting everyone know. Okay.
And I'll put it on the screen for the video version. Okay.
That bitch is dead, exclamation point. DeeDee's saying this?
Yes, straight from her account. It's just, that bitch is dead.
And this is also, mind you, the account that's posting like surgery updates,
positive like things about their family.
So this post comes out 3.32 PM, middle of the afternoon. And everyone is just commenting like, what is going on?
Like, are you guys watching a movie? People are trying to like, it's weird.
People probably thought she was hacked or something. And then at 3.40 PM, and this one is,
I don't even like that my mouth is saying this online, but I want to like put it in for the case, I feel like.
But, okay, I fucking slashed that fat pig and raped her sweet, innocent daughter.
Dot, dot, dot, her scream was so fucking loud, LOL. And I'm looking over your shoulder,
it's coming from Dee Dee's account.
Yes, and it was posted by her daughter, Gypsy, is what we were going to get into right now.
I didn't see that coming.
Yeah, I'm sitting there thinking the mom did this to the daughter. The daughter is saying that about the mom. Yeah. Oh, wow
I had no idea and this is just the tip of the iceberg. I don't think that gypsy used these words,
Who knows why she used these words?
She says later that it's because she just wanted the body to be found because this was actually four days after Wow.
Okay, Sid, you got a good one. Yeah, man, okay.
So we're just gonna get into all of this because it is just like a crazy story of the victim is
also the perpetrator kind of thing. So it's like, it really throws your mind for a loop
because I'm on Gypsy's side. I am on Gypsy's side, actually.
Really? When we get through this? Yeah.
And it's kind of crazy saying that after I just read that. So yeah, let's continue.
I'm at a loss and I know nothing more about this case. And so I am just gonna sit back,
eat popcorn mentally and I want to hear you won't be eating popcorn oh okay
that's a fair point all right it's a new day you guys today I didn't have oil in
my car okay I let them in behind the scenes magic I was trying to make it
sound like that you had just finished yeah so the original intro we ran out of
gas and then this time we ran out of oil but the car still kick it it really is
and okay talk about we just put oil in the car and what did you create I
I created a funnel and you think it's the greatest thing ever and that's honestly so demeaning.
Why is that demeaning? Because he was so- I literally cut a water bottle in half as a funnel and he's like,
oh my goodness.
Okay, so here's where I'm- Albert Einstein is my daughter. I'm impressed you know Albert Einstein is-
That's also offensive.
Okay, but listen to this though. You don't even realize, I feel, says the therapist.
I feel that you don't even realize, Syd, that I'm actually taking shots at me because
I didn't think of a water bottle funnel because I can fix nothing in a car. I know nothing.
Cutting this all out. No, you're not. And moving on to the case. Okay, moving on the case. It's a new day.
And this is actually the reason why I go watch on YouTube because we are wearing new clothes and that really is not that exciting.
Okay, back to you, Sid. The case. Okay, so let's take it all the way back to.
1967, May 3rd in Chaks Bay, Louisiana.
Wait, can we introduce the concepts of to people with ADHD? I wasn't paying attention. I really do want to know what was the time?
1967. Okay, so I wasn't even born yet. No, yeah, this is a long time ago. So this is when Dede Blanchard was born.
Now, no one in her family really has nice things to say about her, unfortunately.
Everyone just said she was kind of weird and she was, even as a child, she was.
Manipulative, petty theft, just all that kind of stuff. She was one of five children to Emma Gisclare and Claude,
I don't know how to say that.
And yeah, they were growing up in Louisiana and I guess she started, she had a pet tarantula,
which that's kind of cool. I don't know.
Do you think, would you really hold one? No. Okay. There's no way I would.
I'm just, yeah. But I don't think that's that terrible. She started getting into witchcraft, which that, I mean, you go through one bad breakup
and you go through witchcraft. So honestly, I get it. Is that kind of par for the course? It really is.
But what really was strange was when she became a nurse's aide.
She was taking care of her own mother at this time, and her mom mysteriously just like starved to death.
And everyone at this time just saw us just kind of suspicious.
No one, there was no like case put out or anything, but just keep that in mind for later, okay?
So she was helping her mother as a nurse's aide and her mother mysteriously starved to
death. Everyone actually says that she was a lot like her mom.
So her mom, she would literally go to laundromats and just like steal people's laundry, I guess.
All that like petty theft.
So I guess maybe that's where she kind of learned it from. Okay, can I jump in and go therapy already?
Yeah, of course. It's really interesting because there's, I mean, there's truth in that
if you were modeled a certain behavior as a kid, you do kind of feel like, well, that's just what people do.
And so not to make excuses for whatever she's gonna do, but if she'd never saw her own mom
take ownership and accountability or go out and, I don't know, work hard and get her own clothes.
It was like, well, look, these people have a ton of clothes anyway,
so they're not going to miss them. Then as a kid, you grew up thinking, yeah, OK.
And well, not to jump ahead, but further in the case, when we talk about Gypsy again, which is her daughter,
she's very manipulative even after she's caught and everything.
And I feel like that same conversation comes into play It's like, how?
Of course she's going to be manipulative. She was raised around constant manipulation. Like,
I feel like she would have to go to years of therapy to unlearn what was just built
subconsciously in her brain, you know? No, there's a concept called differentiation,
which is like where one person ends and the other begins because we're all basically
codependent and enmeshed to our parents. And so in order to be more differentiated,
you have to either have gone through some serious trauma and gone and sought help,
or just really done a lot of your own work.
And most people don't because they don't even know they need to do any work
because they're just being all they know. That's all they know. Yeah, exactly.
That's their baseline. Yes. So here's a couple of quotes from the family.
Bobby Petrie, Petrie.
I don't want to say Petrie. It's there. They look at French names and Louisiana has like a Cajun.
So I think it would be.
Well, I guess I don't even know how to say Petrie. Petrie, Petrie.
That's like Southern.
Bobby, Dee Dee's nephew, describes her as a real weird girl.
He believed that she was bipolar or maybe had multiple personalities,
but overall he just said she was definitely an evil person.
Laura Petre, Dee Dee's step-mom, describes her by saying she was a very filthy person.
If it didn't go her way, she would see to it that you would pay.
And did we pay. We paid a lot.
The minute she'd have set foot on the bayou, which I guess is- The Bayou, yeah, that's like the, I know what it is.
The Bayou is like, I don't even know. It's a place.
Swamps and crawdads, yeah. The law would have arrested her
because she was making bad checks everywhere she went.
Her mother was also a huge shoplifter. She had to go to court several, several times for shoplifting.
Before she got married to her then husband, she stole three to $4,000 from his father.
Wow.
Step or her father-in-law. So now it is 1991. Dee Dee is 24 years old and she
meets her soon-to-be husband Rob Blanchard at this place called Bolden Alley. I guess it was just like a hangout place. Rod is only 17 actually so,
So problematic age gap.
But 1967, whatever, they meet up again the very next week and immediately start dating.
Within that same year, Dee Dee becomes pregnant with Gypsy.
Being from the South, Rod said that he just got married out of expectation and necessity, kind of.
Because where he was, like, it was just kind of ABC, you know?
You marry a girl, or... If you get her pregnant.
If you get her pregnant, you marry her. Yeah, that's the right thing to do.
Yeah, and then you start a family.
Like, that was just, he felt like that's what he had to do, so he did.
He then said that he woke up on his 18th birthday and realized that he had got married for all the wrong reasons,
I guess and he left his pregnant wife. Oh, okay. Well, not so good. Not so good. Yeah, right
Yeah, he does continue to pay child support though. It was I think a thousand two hundred dollars a month
okay, so he was doing that but,
Yeah, they divorce while she's pregnant and dd. I mean, i'm sure she was a wreck. I don't know
but she goes and moves in with her stepfather and his wife, Laura, the one who said she was filthy.
So they move in and she gives birth to her daughter, Gypsy Rose Blanchard,
in Golden Meadow, Louisiana, July 27th, 1991.
And it only took three months for this all to begin. At three months old, Rod said that Dee Dee let him know
that Gypsy had sleep apnea and she needed a breathing monitor machine every night.
Do you know much about sleep apnea?
I've heard like really old people have it. I know, I'm not even trying to crack jokes or be funny,
but I didn't even know, I've never heard of a baby having it.
And it's usually people, they snore really loud and you have a sleep apnea machine.
So that is kind of odd. It's big, it's bulky, it's not good.
She had to sleep with it every single night.
She later would say that it actually made it harder for her to breathe.
So Rod said that it just, it began with the sleep apnea and then it just kept going and going.
Suddenly she had problems with her eyes, she had problems with her hearing, she can't walk.
So when she was five years old, Gypsy gets into a motorcycling accident with her grandfather.
And Dee Dee just takes this and runs with it.
She goes to the doctor, she's convinced that Gypsy can't walk.
She's like, my daughter needs a wheelchair, like she's not okay.
In later interviews, Gypsy will say that she literally had a scratch on her knee.
But she exited this hospital with a full wheelchair.
Jeez, Dee Dee's gonna get her way. Yeah, exactly.
Okay, so Gypsy is five years old at this time and Dee Dee's already claiming
that she has muscular dystrophy, a horrible chromosome disorder.
She told Rod, the father of her child, that she wasn't even going to live to be 18 years old.
Her mental capacity was five years behind, so she was acting like a literal child, like a baby,
I guess, even though she was a child. Some reports say it was kindergarten,
others say it was second grade, but by the time she reached one of those,
Dee Dee pulled her out of school because she said she was too ill to be around other students.
So at this point, Gypsy's completely being homeschooled by Dee Dee. She's not allowed
to hang out with friends. Wow, starting to isolate her. She's in this wheelchair that who knows what
is even going on with that at this point. It's just, it's already so awful. So at this point,
Dee Dee's still making bad checks. She's collecting the child support money and still living in her
father's house. Dee Dee's stepmom suddenly falls extremely, extremely ill, like bedridden. Her
husband said that he didn't even know if she was gonna live. So the family started to pay
closer attention to it and they actually realized that she was only getting sick
when Dee Dee was around. Okay, notice in a pattern? Yeah, she was only falling ill
like bedridden when Dee Dee was cooking the meals when Dee Dee was around. So the.
Family eventually actually confronts Dee Dee. She just won't take any of it. She
picks up Gypsy and they move to New Orleans alone. So just just if she's gonna be accused of something she's getting out of town. She's running away.
And Rod says that at this point, it was just, it was so hard because they were just so isolated now.
Away from the family, away from everyone. So at that point, I'm sure they don't take anybody's phone calls.
They're not gonna, I mean, she's not gonna go anywhere near somebody that knows what she's up to.
Yeah. This part is just a little weird because it sounds like a lot of people in the family were suspicious.
Like Rod says that one of the relatives said to him one time They were like.
I saw her walk, you know she can walk, right? And so Rod confronts Dee Dee,
and Dee Dee just, she always has something to say.
She's like, it's progressive, it's getting worse. It's like a bad right now, but it's gonna get worse.
Like she just always has something to cover her ass.
And it's crazy, yeah, she's very manipulative. So Dee Dee and Gypsy are now living
in Slidell, New Orleans, alone.
And they're paying rent, living off of the wellness checks. Gypsy is 10 years old at this point,
and Dee Dee was shaving her head every day, or every week, I don't know, you know.
Shaving Gypsy's head? Shaving Gypsy's head and claiming that she had leukemia.
Wow. At this point, if we laid everything out, she has muscular dystrophy, a chromosome disorder,
she has leukemia, needs a sleep apnea machine, needs a wheelchair, all these things.
All of these things. Apparently, if Gypsy would try to walk,
she would hit her with a coat hanger.
Oh, wow. She was taking so, so much medication, none of what she needed.
It was found actually later that the side effects of a lot of her medications would match the symptoms
of the diseases that her mom was claiming she had.
So it's all just so calculated and manipulative. Have we already talked about the potential diagnosis yet?
We did at the beginning a little bit. And leading into that, Gypsy wasn't a child to Dee Dee.
She was an object. Yeah.
And I feel like that's part of the Mount Munchausen thing.
Munchausen by proxy, yeah. That's not a child, that's your tool.
It is, it's a way to get attention, it's a way to feel like you have control,
to get power in a sense, and just to feel like you matter, it's so sad.
At this point, Deedee also had a feeding tube inserted into her.
Wow. feeding tube, which that one gives me the the comments.
Imagining that being stuck inside of you all the time is awful and the medication was literally causing her teeth to fall out.
I feel so bad for I really do I really do it's a kid.
A kid a child a little girl who is so positive everyday still is taking handfuls of medication.
Shaving her head these can hit with a co-worker these medications would cause her to feel super drowsy and out of it all the time to which her mom would use.
To her advantage. She would drug her up, I'm sure before, like important things where she wanted
to make her look mentally less than she was kind of thing.
Dee Dee would constantly take her to the emergency room. It seemed like every other night
she was at the emergency room. She had something else wrong with her.
I'm sure doctors- I was gonna ask you, did you find any stuff that says that medical people were- Yes. Okay.
Okay. Yes. Not only was like her family, I mean, I don't want to blame her family,
but this is just another situation where it seems like so many people knew,
doctors knew, family members knew, and nobody wanted to be the one to take it all apart.
Yeah, everybody's kind of wonder if they're just hoping or assuming that somebody else will.
Which is just so messed up because this is a child, like she doesn't know how to help herself, you know?
Yeah. They're living in New Orleans and Hurricane Katrina hits in 2005.
Oh, I was about to ask, do you remember that? But you would have been two or three?
Yeah, I don't remember. It was big, it was brutal. Obviously awful.
I guess their home got destroyed and stuff, but I guess their home got destroyed and stuff.
Their home got destroyed. It did. That was, oh, go ahead. She, well, do you have something?
Well, just that was one of the first things that I ever remember.
When Hurricane Katrina was just devastating and there were all this video of, I mean,
the entire cities were just wiped out and it was like flood.
People are trapped and abandoned on their roofs and they fit everybody into this big sports arena
called the Superdome or something. And I mean, it was crazy.
And people were out of their homes for years.
What's even crazier is that Dee Dee didn't see it as a tragedy.
She basically just used it to her advantage.
Her and Gypsy move into, I think, the temporary housings or whatever for that time.
And Dee Dee saw a specialist, I guess, that told her to go to Missouri
where she would get help with Gypsy's medical situation.
And this is where media just picked up the story and it took off, right?
Because it was this sick, sick girl and her single mom.
Their house had just been destroyed in Hurricane Katrina. They didn't have anything.
They had all these medical bills. So the media just ran with it.
It was a beautiful story, honestly. When people were looking for feel-good stories
around that time of things like Hurricane Katrina, you know, so people are gonna run with it.
It's taking advantage of people's like sympathy or I don't know what the word is.
Habitats for Humanity actually picks up this story and they built them a super nice home,
with a hot tub, a wheelchair ramp.
Wow.
Like, she is the con woman of the century. And when Dee Dee will now go to these new doctors
and specialists in Missouri, she claims that all of the medical records.
Had been destroyed in Hurricane Katrina.
She claims that Gypsy's birth certificate was destroyed, all the medical records.
So basically, it just gave her a completely blank slate to tell them whatever she wanted.
I still have a hard time that people, cause doctors know what symptoms look like
or the things that don't go with each other. I don't know.
No, yeah, exact. And that leads straight into this. Well, first of all, they're going to concerts, okay?
They're getting donations from charities and everyone wanted to help.
And like, she got to meet like the Harry Potter cast and stuff like, glad she at least got to do some
of that stuff, but no.
In 2007, she actually sees a doctor who is suspicious of her, finally.
Wow. Right? Yeah. So this doctor was a pediatric neurologist.
His name was Bernardo Flasterstein.
He was very suspicious of Gypsy because he was looking at her legs
and her legs that were supposedly paralyzed
and they had muscle on them.
Gotcha. And that kind of made sense to me because I feel like you can tell if someone has been in a wheelchair
for super, super long time. Their legs would probably atrophy.
They're very thin. Yeah. And he's doing all these tests for muscular dystrophy. They're coming back as negative.
And he actually puts in his notes, the mother is not a good historian.
Oh. Yeah. He also noted there is a strong possibility of Munchausen by proxy,
with maybe some underlying unknown etiology to explain for her symptoms.
So someone said it. Yeah. Someone said it. He wrote it down. He put it in the notes.
And she still gets away with it. I guess he spoke to his colleagues
and he was trying to get this situation to move further
and they just told him to give it up because the family was, I guess, so high and respected.
That they don't mean to bother him.
Well, I bet they had so much media attention, I would imagine that maybe that they felt like
that nobody's gonna believe him.
Yeah. Wow. I just hate that because it's like, it's a little girl.
The truth is gonna come out. Like it was never gonna have a happy ending.
It was never something you could have just pushed under the rug because she's gonna keep getting abused.
There's a couple of things.
One, I did a podcast last week on my waking up to narcissism one.
And I asked for examples of things that you just, like he knows that people with muscular dystrophy,
their legs atrophy. So if she has like this musculature on her legs, it can't be a thing.
And I did some examples of like somebody that their narcissistic husband told his wife
to tell somebody to do a certain thing on the roof.
This wife has no idea how to do roofing.
So then when she asked this other person, hey, can you do this thing for the roof?
And she only does it because she heard it from her husband. But then when she told her husband,
okay, I told them what you told me. And then he said, I didn't say that.
And she said, I have zero idea of how to do what I told this person to do.
I've never even heard these words before.
So the only reason I know it is because you told me and he still said it wasn't me.
So I feel like that's that example of where there's certain things like this doctor knows.
He knows that you will not have musculature in your legs.
Like this woman knows, she knows that I just told somebody to do something on a roof
that I've never even heard of in my entire life.
And I think those are just those examples of where.
The crazy person, the narcissist, the DD, they don't know what they don't know.
Like they think that they're saying the right thing.
You know, does that make sense? I know this one drives me crazy.
In the Vallow case, because we're- I know, and I know, and it's okay,
because I want to talk this one through, because I think that this is a thing as a therapist
that I see so often where, let me go back to like the Lori Vallow case
that we're going to cover in the not too distant future.
Her husband, Chad, when Chad's wife died and she died under very suspect circumstances,
like they've now proven that she was killed.
When the people came and they said, how did she die? He made up a completely crazy story
that he thought was right.
And so when the people came and they said, that isn't how it works.
Cause he said, she fell out of bed. He said, she died in the middle of the night.
So then her legs were hanging over the bed. So when she died, they got stiff,
which probably meant that they got heavy.
And then she tipped over out of bed.
Like that makes no sense. So when Chad's saying that, oh, that's what happened.
Then instantly now the medical people know That isn't what happened.
Do you know what I mean? I think so. Yeah, okay.
So, it must've been weird. Like you said, he knows, she has muscles on her legs.
Yeah. There's no way she's not paralyzed.
And then Dee Dee's looking at him like.
She's like, this is what happened. Okay, let me give you another one.
And narcissistic triangulation. So this one is mind blowing.
So I still remember a time where I had a woman in my office and her narcissistic husband.
And he said, you know what? I went to my doctor today and I was telling my doctor about my wife
even my doctor thinks that she's depressed and needs medication. So he thinks that the wife's
buying it, oh my gosh, your doctor thinks I need medication? And he thinks I'm gonna go,
holy cow, she must be depressed, but what did I think instead? So hang on, so it takes somebody
months to get a doctor's appointment, you've got about five minutes that you may get heard about
what you're there for, but you, Mr. Narcissist, were so convincing with that five minute appointment
with this doctor that doesn't know your wife that she was able to gather the data, make a diagnosis
and make a prescription for an antidepressant.
Is that what you're telling me? Yeah. Right?
And like, yeah, you were gonna spend that time for your wife instead of yourself.
And no doctor would ever say, wait, person I'm not very familiar with, tell me more about this
person I don't know for the next two minutes. I'll give her a diagnosis and I'll write a prescription.
No, they'd be like, tell her to get an appointment. Yeah. And then they would say, okay, why are you here? Right? Anyway, I know that I've
I've been going on and on but this is that stuff that I just am so fascinated
by this as like as a therapist or as a human being this is why it is so I think
important to actually tell the truth and be authentic because when you're trying
to be somebody that you're not other people know that you're not being real
but then what kills me is everybody else is seeing it and nobody would say anything about it till this doctor I looked it up it's actually called
witness apathy so everybody is witnessing this thing but they're all apathetic they just don't nobody wants to do anything about it and so then the
a person like Deedee gets away with crap for a long time.
Right? But I'm imagining this doctor didn't, nobody said, oh, okay, he's right.
And then they went and stopped her.
No, they did not. She kept going. So that was in 2007.
In 2009, an anonymous caller, and so this could have been the doctor,
could have been a different doctor. We still don't know.
But an anonymous caller actually reports to the police that they don't think Gypsy is as sick as the mother claims.
So the police officers do a wellness check to the Blanchard home.
And once again, Dee Dee is just able to talk her way out of it.
So basically, they confront Dee Dee about lying about her daughter's age and the birth certificate.
And all of that stuff. Because remember, it got destroyed in the flood.
Yeah, and so Dee Dee, in her little evil manipulative mind,
immediately comes up with the story that,
gosh, this would be really bad if the story was true and I just let it up like that.
But anyways, that she had lied about the birth certificate to try to get Rod Blanchard away from them.
Which, no. No, I was gonna say, no. He's paying you $1,000 a month, like I don't know.
And this is where I don't, if somebody is this much of a pathological liar and a compulsive liar,
there aren't gonna be times where, but this time she was telling the truth.
It doesn't work that way. No, and I'm sure that she like drugged up gypsies so much right before that.
I truly believe that.
And even if she didn't, the amount of mental manipulation going on with that is insane.
A lot of people are like, well, why didn't she just stand up? Right. But it's like if she stood
up, where would they take her? Her mom was the only person that she had. Her mom, I guarantee
had been just, just gaslighting up a storm and making her feel like you're nobody without me.
We already heard that she hits her with a coat hanger if she tries to stand up. You know what's
crazy, Sid? I love the way you laid out this case in the beginning, because just the fact that I,
know that it was Gypsy that wrote those posts. I am so conflicted right now
because I can't stand Dee Dee and Gypsy is getting really evil and now I'm already thinking... Gypsy's not getting evil. No Gypsy's not getting evil but I.
Have no idea how we're gonna get to where you told us about in the beginning.
So basically whenever the doctors would tell Dee Dee something that she didn't
want to hear she would just switch doctors. So that's what she did and just
moved along to the next one. I kind of want to look at this from Gypsy's perspective for a second,
right? So she's 19 years old at this point, but she thinks she's 15.
Like her mom's been telling her she's five years developmentally delayed.
No, not even that. At this point, she changed her whole birth certificate.
Okay. So she is a 15 year old. She literally thinks she's 15. I guess she was just going through some stuff in the house or
something and she came across her Medicaid card. Okay. And it showed her real...
Wow, so gypsy had been in it for so long. She also believed she was 15. Yes. Wow, what a trip.
And that's one thing that's really sad about this story is I think she thought she was sick
until this point. Okay. Pretty much. Yeah. She still thought she was sick. At this point,
she was just confused because now it's like, why am I 19? Yeah. And why don't you want other people
to know that? I can't imagine what was going through her head. Me neither. But I think that
that this was definitely a turning point for her.
I think she probably started to resent her mom a little bit at this point.
But I just can't imagine the years of manipulation that were added on top of that, the confusion.
It's your own mom.
And she's been living with watching her mom gaslight everybody, not take ownership for anything.
And that's all she knows. She wasn't allowed to have friends.
Yeah, her mom's everything.
2011, Gypsy meets a 35-year-old man at a sci-fi convention because she was into all that, like nerdy stuff.
Like she loved like Harry Potter, Star Wars. Like she was obsessed with Disney movies, all of that stuff.
So she meets this 35-year-old man and everyone believed she was 15 at this point.
So this is not a good guy. That's not good. I know you wanna say her hero, no, a creep.
But looking at it like that with like Disney movies being her only way of looking at life.
She was waiting, I feel like she was kind of waiting for her Prince Charming to scoop her up.
That was the only thing that she was seeing. That's good take.
Gypsy makes plans to meet up with this guy. So- How did she get out of the house to go to the thing?
Dee Dee had a computer, so she would use the computer and then she would wait until Dee Dee fell asleep. Wow, okay.
So Dee Dee falls asleep and Gypsy gets a cab, walks straight out of the house,
and goes to a motel to meet up with this 35-year-old man. Who thinks she's 15? Who thinks she's 15.
And I don't know what he's thinking at this point when she walks into his hotel room
and she was wheeled up to him originally at the science, or sci-fi, whatever.
Do you ever watch those Chris Hansen to catch a predator?
Yeah.
So I'm sure he was just there to warn her. Yeah, right?
Yeah. No, he knew the whole time. Let her know that this is bad. Right, oh gosh.
So one of Dee Dee's friends actually saw Gypsy while she was going up to the motel and called Dee Dee.
So Dee Dee knows now, she marches straight to the motel and I guess she came with paperwork
showing that her daughter was underage. You know, she meant business. Oh yeah.
Yeah, so she got her out of there. They got the 19 but 15 year old person
that has been gas lit her entire life
and her 35-year-old friend at a motel, and then the crazy mom comes with paperwork
to show that she's underage, which she's actually not.
That's a mess. Yeah, a mess. Dee Dee was so mad that I guess she shattered the computer with a hammer.
Dang, where'd she get a hammer? She said, if you ever do that again,
I'm gonna smash your fingers with the hammer. She was just absolutely terrifying.
Gypsy said that she was calling her every name in the book.
Gypsy called this the bad times.
Dee Dee took a dog leash and clipped it to a pair of handcuffs and clipped that to Gypsy's bed.
And left her chained there for two weeks.
So she's insane. I guess at this point, Dee Dee also convinced the lawyers to draw papers
that said that Dee Dee was incompetent. So if the police were to come again,
she could show them the papers and- She's like legally insane.
So there's like nothing, like at this point Gypsy's already tried to escape.
It didn't work.
She's starting to figure out that her whole life at this point has been kind of a sham.
Yeah, her mom, the one person who's supposed to be protecting her,
the one who's taking her on all these trips, who's letting her do all these fun things
is the person who's literally ruining her.
And I'm sure that slow realization, I'm sure there was denial involved with that.
And I just thought it's very twisted.
Dee Dee gets a new computer and Gypsy is sneaking on it again at night.
You can imagine at this point, The gypsy is completely isolated, she's confused, she's sick.
And she's got a little taste of the outside world. Just a tiny taste, and it's all through her computer at this point.
So this online life becomes her entire life.
This computer is her, like you said, sliver into the outside world.
She signs up for this Christian dating website.
Interesting.
And this is when she meets Nicholas Godejohn.
And they immediately are like obsessed with each other. They're talking obsessively every single night.
And this goes on for years.
Oh, wow. Yeah. So let's talk about Nicholas. Who is Nicholas Godejohn?
He was born May 20th, 1989 in Wisconsin. I think Big Bend, Wisconsin.
His parents divorced when he was pretty young. I think like three or four years old.
And he grew up with his single mom in Missouri. He said that he was always very alone as a child.
His dad said it was hard for him to make friends. He's just kind of more to himself.
He was very high on the autism spectrum. Oh, okay.
So yeah, he was in special education throughout all of his education.
He said that he was the smartest in his class because I guess his autism was like high functioning.
So he graduates high school, whatever. I guess he wanted to become a computer engineer.
So I'm sure he went to college. Yeah.
I get he said that they weren't like patient enough for him to figure it all out. So he didn't do that.
He was very lonely um Did you read the next one?
I mean at the beginning of the episode we already had to click the explicit rating about 15 times, right?
So is this a quote from a news story that you're about to say or is this your summary? This is charge
I know I don't know if this is a charge. I don't think that's like what happened
Okay, but I mean did you interpret what you read and this is your interpretation? Yes, okay.
He was arrested for,
Jacking off in a McDonald's for nine hours.
Just gonna let that one sit I I have so many questions, I don't want to know the answer to a single one of them.
No, you don't.
And I guess when they arrested him, he like had a weapon. I don't know if he was doing anything with it, but he had one.
So yeah, this very interesting guy we've laid out here. Yeah, so he meets Gypsy online
and they're talking every single night.
Gypsy and Nick were like in love at this point, but they had never met in person.
They were only talking online.
So they plan a little date, but Gypsy knew that Dee Dee would never allow her
to go out on a date with boys. Boys were completely out of the picture.
Relationships were not allowed, all of that stuff.
And of course, when you tell a kid not to do something, that's all they're gonna wanna do.
So she sends him $400 and he gets a bus ticket and they plan to meet at the Cinderella
live action movie theater together.
But Dee Dee's not gonna know. They just planned on like kind of bumping into each other.
And then- I see, making it look random.
Yeah, and then I guess Gypsy's hope was that Dee Dee would just be like,
Oh my God, this is a nice man. Why don't you come home with us?
You know? Yeah, and stay forever. But obviously that's not what happened.
So they get into the movie theater and Nicholas approached Dee Dee and Gypsy
and kind of introduced himself and stuff.
And Dee Dee was just creeped out by him immediately.
She was not into it. Dee Dee sits down, like Dee Dee sits down in her seat and then Gypsy sits right next to her.
And then Nicholas comes and sits right next to Gypsy.
And Dee Dee was like, no, this guy's weird. Gypsy, come on. So Dee Dee moves like a couple seats down
and Gypsy just like ignored her and wouldn't go with her, I guess.
So her and Nick are like holding hands, I guess secretly the whole movie and stuff.
And then Nick says he's gonna go get popcorn or something.
And Gypsy says she's gonna go to the bathroom and they meet back in the men's bathroom and have sex.
So yeah, so then they go back to the movie theater. And this is also how she lost her virginity.
I don't know, it's just kind of sad. They go back and they finished watching the movie
and then Dee Dee takes Gypsy home and Gypsy's asking her like,
so what'd you think about that guy?
Like, ooh, and Dee Dee's just like, he was a creep.
Why was he alone in a Cinderella live action movie? Where's his daughter?
Where's his girlfriend? like, why is he here? And she just would have nothing to do with it.
So Gypsy just continued to keep it to herself and only talked to him online.
And their relationship continued to grow and grow. But obviously Gypsy knew that Dee Dee
would have never approved of it.
And she soon confides in him that she can walk and that her mom is abusing her.
So this is like already a trauma bond, essentially, right? Gypsy got in like a specifically really bad fight
with her mom, I guess. And that's when she confided in him that she was being abused.
And it's unclear exactly how it was asked.
There's multiple different accounts from both of them.
They both have kind of different stories on how this went. But in court, Gypsy says that she asked Nick,
if he could kill her mom for her. Oh, wow, okay.
So- And when you say different accounts, and does Nicholas have his own take on that or?
Well, it's just, it's kind of Gypsy who goes back and forth.
That I would say.
Because sometimes she acts like he kind of manipulated her, but then it seems like, I don't know,
this case is really weird in this sense.
Well, again, go back to the fact that she was modeled not taking ownership or accountability of anything.
So maybe in one minute she's like, what was I, I was so abused.
I mean, what was I supposed to do? In another minute, maybe it's,
and then Nicholas brought it up and I didn't want to, who knows?
And yeah, like maybe there, I'm sure there was manipulation. Was it intentional?
Does that matter if it was intentional, if it happened?
I don't know, it's like this case was really throwing me for a loop for the fact that there are a lot of kind
of inconsistencies with that, and it really like.
Makes you fight for what side you're on. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it.
I feel like everyone was a victim. Yeah. Genuinely. I feel bad for Nick.
I feel bad for Gypsy. I feel bad for Dee Dee because who knows what I just,
it's just all bad. It is, it really is.
Nicholas had this thing he called his dark side. He had like different characters,
and Gypsy would make up characters to match his characters.
So they would like kind of role play together. Okay. they had like a bunch of different ones.
Like Gypsy had like six different characters for like all of her different moods.
And then he had his own characters that like corresponded to that, if that makes sense.
Like she had like Bunny and like Bella and like one of them was like sexy and one of them was like evil.
And one of them was like, you know, she had all these different personalities.
And I kind of think that, I don't know, I think maybe he was using that to kind of take himself out of the murder.
Like saying, oh, it's my dark side doing it, not me.
Yeah, this is, we go back to the things that people say that they don't know is really a silly thing to say.
So if somebody literally has dissociative identity disorder,
they're not gonna have that kind of awareness even to blame it on their other personality
because they're just gonna slip in and out of their other personality.
So if they're like, oh man, it's my alter ego, Kevin, You know, it's kind of not the way it works.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, so I feel like that's one where he's looking for excuses.
He was also very into BDSM, so he was kind of bringing her into that.
And just so I, Gypsy, this is her first relationship ever.
Yeah. Bye-bye.
I don't know. She could be easily manipulated. I mean, that's obvious, but also she could be
manipulating him. It's just awesome. You're right. It's all bad.
They began talking more and more about this murder and how they're going to do it.
When they're going to do it. They went through like a million different ways of doing in their
head. Nicholas says later, like at first we thought about poisoning her, but we didn't
know how to. He wanted to do it with a gun, but he didn't want it to be too loud. And then there's
one account where Gypsy says that Nicholas told her that he wanted to stab Didi, like specifically
stab her. But then Nicholas in another account says that, oh, he just was doing that because,
they wanted to do the quickest way with the least pain. So there's just so much back and forth.
So many stories, yeah.
But we do have the text messages.
Oh, really? Yeah, the text messages show that it was very, very premeditated.
Let's move on to the night of the murder. Okay.
So June 9th, Gypsy and her mom actually get in an argument, and Gypsy says that Dee Dee's last words to her were,
don't hurt me, which is just kind of crazy. Oh, wow.
Yeah, so Gypsy leaves the door unlocked, and at 2am she texts Nick that she's ready to go.
They go back and forth a couple of times. He asks if Dee Dee's a light sleeper.
The way they talk is...
It's so cold? It's very creepy. He's the master and she's like...
I guess that's what they were into. Sub? Yeah.
So it's just very weird vibes. Gypsy brings him the supplies. I think it was duct tape
and the knife. And he orders her to go to the bathroom. So Gypsy goes into the bathroom and
she said she curled up in a ball and just waited.
At this point, Nick says that there was an angel and a devil on his shoulder, I guess.
And he said that the angel said, take her and run.
And that the devil said, that bitch is dead. Wow.
And he said that in that moment, he listened to the devil, I guess, for whatever reason. Yeah.
Which it's like, why are you even saying that? Because you're literally saying that in the
moment you thought about not doing it.
Well, and I think that's the part where he thinks that people are going to go,
oh my gosh, you were possessed by these two forces and poor you, the devil got the best of
you. But you're right. He's literally, that is not the way, I feel that's not the way that works. No. Yeah.
No, so he listens to the devil, I guess. And he goes into Dede's bedroom where she's sleeping,
and he begins to stab her. And I guess she woke up and she was like, who are you?
And he said, your worst nightmare or something. Like he thinks he's- Cliched line.
He really thinks he's like Freddy Krueger or something, like get off your high horse. Oh my
God. So then she cries out for Gypsy and Gypsy said that she heard it in the bathroom and she just
waited there for it to be over and he continued to stab her 14 times and she dies and then he
goes over to Gypsy in the bathroom and I guess she takes a shower and shaves her.
For important areas, and then they have sex in the house.
While she's still there, Devi's dead. Yeah. That's wild.
And there was, again, one account, and this is horrible if this is true,
where there was a woman who had a child, and she had a child, and she had a baby,
Gypsy said that Nicholas told her that he wanted to rape Dede and she was like, no, please don't do this rape me instead and
and she had a baby, and she had a baby.
Then that's where that happened Okay
And then it's just it is all just so confusing because then they go and run off to a motel together
Is that the Facebook post? No, not yet. Okay, so then they go off to a motel together and they're like,
like seemingly in love.
Like there's videos that come out of them like just giggling and laughing right after. Oh.
Yeah, it's all very- I don't even know what to think. Crazy.
Yeah, now we're getting into the world of like what, psychopathy, I mean, psychopath kind of a vibe or I don't know.
Oh, I forgot to mention that Gypsy said that Nick then asked her to clean up naked
because it like turned him on or something.
Oh man. And then they clean up with literally like paper towels and some cleaner and like rags,
just like don't really do that great of a job.
And then they just go off to the motel. So I think they spent the night there
and they got $4,000 out from the bank.
And then they went to the post office and mailed the murder weapon to Nicholas's house in Missouri.
I just wanna ask why, but- I guess Gypsy thought that if they got caught
with it on the train, they would get in trouble.
Oh, so mail it. I guess, yeah. They get on a Greyhound bus and they take it back
to Missouri where Nicholas's mom picks them up at 3 a.m.
Nicholas tells her that Gypsy's this homeless girl who just like got in a fight with her mom
and that she just needs somewhere to stay for a couple days.
And Nicholas's mom says she remembers just being like, what is going on?
Because I guess Gypsy just ended up staying there for like multiple days.
And she said that one time Gypsy like walked down in her kitchen and was like,
don't worry, I'll clean up after, I'll clean everything up. I'm gonna get a job today.
And the mom was just like, what?
Who is this girl? This homeless girl, now she's moving in? Yeah.
And I guess Nicholas's dad said that the only thing weird that he could tell
from the situation was that she was wearing a really obvious wig because she had a shaved head
and maybe she was trying to hide her identity or something.
So they're just hanging out at Nicholas's house and Gypsy starts to feel guilty
because they hadn't seen anything come out on the news about her mom.
So Gypsy just knew that she was just sitting there and nobody knew anything about it.
Wow, okay, so this has been a few days. It's been- Nothing's, okay.
Four days at this point.
So it's June 14th, and this is when Gypsy puts out the Facebook post that says this bitch is dead.
And I'm trying to remember, it's been a whole day. Was it on the mom's Facebook account?
Yeah, so they had like a shared mom daughter Facebook account.
That post goes out and everyone in the community is absolutely horrified and confused, as you can imagine.
Like nobody knows what to do. So the neighbors, I guess Gypsy had like,
the tiniest connection with this neighbor girl.
Like she barely ever got to see her, but they had spoken a couple times.
So this neighbor girl and the mom go over to the house and I guess they call the police
and then I guess one of them went through the window, which is like, what are you doing going on the crime scene?
But they saw that like Gypsy's wheelchair was empty.
So now everyone's in even more of a panic because it's like, this girl doesn't have her meds,
she doesn't have her legs, she's like, it's just everyone is in a panic.
So the police arrive at the crime scene And they walk inside and I guess one police officer said
that at first everything seemed normal.
They go inside the bedroom and immediately they're faced with just a horrible, brutal, awful crime scene.
Dee Dee's laying face down in her own bed, just- Stabbed. Yes.
14 times, is that what you said?
Mm-hmm. So police get to investigating immediately. And I guess that little neighbor girl had told them
that Gypsy had told them that she had been talking to a guy online.
And this little girl also knew about, I guess this Facebook profile,
that Nicholas and Gypsy actually shared together.
So they would talk on this like personal account just for like them two, I guess.
And so the police go into this account and from there they're able to track,
like the IP address from all the posts back to Nicholas's house.
And they've got him basically, right? So they go straight to Missouri to arrest Nicholas.
And I think it was late at night, him and Gypsy were sleeping in bed,
and he said that he just remembers them banging on the door,
Nicholas, go to Joan, come out, we're arresting you.
They didn't even know Gypsy was there at this point. So him and Gypsy run into the closet,
and they're trying to get their story straight at this point, like what they're gonna say to the police.
And then he said that Gypsy just got up and walked out with her hands up.
And it was just, the police were shocked to see this girl walking, to see her here alive.
It was baffling to everyone.
So they are both arrested at this point. I watched both of their full interrogation clips.
Oh, I wanna watch that. We'll put the links in the notes.
They're just, it's crazy to see. So they both start with this fake story,
that Gypsy just ran away from her mom,
and they just got in a fight And they both try to like play it off,
like they have no idea that Gypsy's mom is even dead.
But Nick, he gives it away pretty fast, unfortunately for him.
And they get him talking.
Gypsy, she plays it off completely. They're like, your mom's dead.
And she's like, what? Like she puts on her Oscar winning performance. She's a pro.
Yeah. And this is kind of where a lot of media took it and was like, Gypsy is a demon kind of thing
because she's doing this.
But again, she was raised by a master manipulator. So.
And that's like, at what point do you, where's the accountability lie?
Cause then it sounded like Dee Dee's mom was the same.
And then it was Dee Dee and then it was Gypsy. Not that it makes it right, but that's crazy.
And then you have to imagine at this point, like she's just gonna say whatever she can to get out of jail.
Yeah, absolutely. She went from one prison to another, you know? Oh, that's deep.
You just got the title of the podcast right there. from a video.
Okay, but you said it so good. That was so good. So what happened?
So they get arrested, were they tried separate, I would imagine?
Yeah, they were tried separately.
In Gypsy's trial, she got 10 years in prison.
8 until she could get parole. parole? That does not seem like a lot.
Does it? I don't think she should be in prison at all. Okay, see I'm now going back and forth because,
so you don't think she really had any like do you feel like she was just manipulated the whole time?
I think that she went through 17 years of 18, 19, 24 years of child abuse. The prison one prison to
the next? She had no yeah she had no other option like she had the police come into her house and
Didi talked them out of it you know what I mean? She tried to escape and Didi chained her to a bed.
Yes, yes, yes. It's almost like you could almost argue the self-defense.
Yeah. I just feel like she, it was her last resort and it wasn't okay, obviously.
But, oh gosh. Yeah. I almost wanted to say, Sid, edit out that part where I'm like,
that's not enough, but we're being real, right?
No, no. Well, it's confusing. It is. And I appreciate that because it is the thing where like, you could argue,
I feel like you could argue self-defense and then if she wouldn't have done it,
I mean, she would have died.
Yes. Yeah. Someone was gonna die. And that's again what I feel like we were talking about earlier was like it was never gonna have a happy ending. No, it wasn't.
Unless somebody would have- Because Dee Dee was never gonna have her aha moment. It was gonna get worse.
Dude, it's- it was never gonna have a happy ending unless an adult stepped in.
And no adult ever stepped in and Gypsy, a child, had to figure out how to save herself.
Wow, look at it that way.
That way. And like with all these years of manipulation being built on top of her,
I don't really, and these Disney movies too, not to Disney, but like, just like this fantasy land
of like, I need my Prince, I want my Prince Charming to save me and to kill the evil witch.
Whoa. It's really, I just can't, I have a hard time not being on her side. I wish they would
have sent her to somewhere where she could have gotten an education and therapy and-
So she's still...
Yeah. Okay. She's still in jail.
She just got married. Oh, wow. In jail. So go off.
Nicholas Godojohn, he got life in prison. Okay. And he, to this day, is still in love with Gypsy.
In one of his jailhouse interviews, it was just kind of eerie.
He said that if he had to, he would do it again.
But he would do it differently.
And when asked how he would do it differently, I guess he said that their alternative plan was to get Gypsy pregnant so that Dee Dee would
be forced to allow Nick into the family. So he said that's- and maybe he could have rescued her from within,
kind of a thing, was his thought.
That's not what he said though. He just literally wanted to have a baby.
And it's like, no, the right thing would have been to tell someone and get her out of that situation, right?
Maybe not baby trap. Yeah.
Sid, I really appreciate the way you summed that up at the end because I'm kind of reeling a little bit
because if I really look at it from her being abused her entire life, it really does.
It's like, she's gonna get out of there however she can.
And I work with so many people that are in emotionally or physically or financially
or sexually abusive relationships, that then we talk about trauma and the body keeps the score.
And so sometimes when people try to go back into bad relationships,
they literally will like, I've had people that they've had strokes,
they've had heart attacks, they get high blood pressure.
And so it's like their body eventually is gonna say, I don't know how else to get your attention.
And if you are gonna keep going back in there, something's gonna happen.
So in a weird way, it's almost like Gypsy's whole, you know, body keeps the score
or a way to deal with trauma is she will do anything to get out of it,
including murder or have her mom murdered.
Yeah. Yeah, and that breaks my heart.
It's, yeah, it's like sad that the stakes were that high. Yeah, it's almost like her body, her brain,
whatever was saying, there's only way I can get out of this.
Her mom like created this.
Like, not to be like she should have seen it coming, but it's like, you raised that child,
like she was gonna grow up and be the product of what you raised.
And inevitably that was manipulative and you got murdered.
I don't know where I'm going with that. But do you know what I'm saying?
Yes, I know. Oh, 100% I do. I was letting you go there
because I thought you were about to say this dramatic thing
and drop the mic and walk out. No, not that.
But I think that's pretty much it. Leaves you with a weird feeling.
It does, but it leaves me, it does honestly leave me thinking.
And I appreciate you doing all your research. I once just want to say again, like, I don't know.
Everyone's a victim. I feel bad already.
Like, it's like, it's like.
Didi, Gypsy was a victim of Didi, who was a victim of her mom,
and Nick was a victim of Gypsy, but I don't even wanna say that because he also manipulated her.
Well, and Nick came from his own pretty crappy childhood as well.
Everybody's a mess.
Syd, thanks for all the work you did.
Murder on the Couch, episode three, in the books. Should we tell a knock-knock joke?
Like, how do we bring the vibes home? Do you know a good knock-knock joke? No.
Have you used chat GBT much at all?
No. Okay, I actually a bit asked it to tell me jokes. So should we end it with like artificial intelligence
telling a joke? No, it's gonna be stupid. It's not, they're like really good
and you can be really specific about it too. So watch this, are you ready?
Okay, chat GBT, what do you want the knock knock joke to be about?
I did one the other day and I said, give me a narcissist knock knock joke
and it came back with one right away.
Okay, so let's see if we can get it to tell a, oh, what about, I was gonna say,
Do we do a knock-knock joke about murder?
Or it might say that that's not very funny. Okay, here we go.
You can do whatever you want, but nobody's watching anymore.
Yes, they are. Tell me a knock-knock joke about true crime.
The building. They're not, they're here. Watch this, watch this artificial intelligence.
I don't blame you guys, it's okay. Here we go.
Knock-knock, who's there? Ted, Ted who? Ted Bundy Lee murdered punchlines,
but this joke is killer. Wow, that did not even make any sense.
Okay, but watch this. Generate the response. Okay, here we go.
Here we go. Knock, knock, who's there? Ted, Ted who?
Ted Bundy, but don't worry, I'm just kidding. Let's stick to the lighter side of true crime jokes. Shall we?
That's not even funny. That literally is not a joke. That's not a joke at all.
Okay, tell me a joke about chips.
Music.
Game.