1 00:00:08,255 --> 00:00:09,690 As synchronization programs, 2 00:00:10,343 --> 00:00:11,377 great when they work, 3 00:00:12,093 --> 00:00:12,593 challenging 4 00:00:12,969 --> 00:00:15,913 when something happens to cause it to not 5 00:00:15,913 --> 00:00:16,868 be as you blend. 6 00:00:17,426 --> 00:00:19,017 What do we do when mistakes are made? 7 00:00:19,750 --> 00:00:21,589 We'll find out today on Bo Science with 8 00:00:21,750 --> 00:00:23,750 Bc. I'm Brad White joined today by Doctor. 9 00:00:23,910 --> 00:00:25,289 Bob Larson. He's a thorough 10 00:00:25,669 --> 00:00:27,349 here at Kansas State University. 11 00:00:27,764 --> 00:00:30,316 Good morning, Bob. Good morning. So we've got 12 00:00:30,316 --> 00:00:32,412 an opportunity here to talk about 13 00:00:32,789 --> 00:00:34,804 times we've messed up in the past 14 00:00:35,182 --> 00:00:37,357 and how we can learn from our mistakes 15 00:00:37,749 --> 00:00:39,840 and there there's a really nice paper 16 00:00:40,215 --> 00:00:42,522 that summarizes, and and I like this because 17 00:00:42,522 --> 00:00:43,954 as a veterinarian and you work with your 18 00:00:43,954 --> 00:00:46,261 clients, you're doing enough synchronization programs, 19 00:00:46,673 --> 00:00:48,819 at some point, something's gonna get messed up. 20 00:00:49,693 --> 00:00:52,157 Let's maybe describe this paper and then we'll 21 00:00:52,157 --> 00:00:53,508 jump in and talk about what do we 22 00:00:53,508 --> 00:00:55,679 do different? You betcha. So this was a 23 00:00:55,679 --> 00:00:57,780 paper published in, clinical theory 24 00:00:59,199 --> 00:00:59,520 by, 25 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,519 in 20 23, 26 00:01:01,933 --> 00:01:04,639 by Jessica K. And so this was a 27 00:01:04,639 --> 00:01:07,902 a veterinarian. She's she's a reproductive specialist at 28 00:01:07,902 --> 00:01:08,936 at Auburn University. 29 00:01:09,667 --> 00:01:11,256 She's actually a case state grad. We had 30 00:01:11,256 --> 00:01:13,323 her in class a few years ago now. 31 00:01:13,482 --> 00:01:16,264 Ago. Yep. But she's gone on for additional 32 00:01:16,264 --> 00:01:18,983 training, and has really become you know, 1 33 00:01:18,983 --> 00:01:20,579 of the young, I'm still gonna call our 34 00:01:20,579 --> 00:01:21,079 young 35 00:01:22,254 --> 00:01:25,445 leaders in some reproduction technology and and teaching. 36 00:01:25,859 --> 00:01:27,540 There at Auburn. And so she did a 37 00:01:27,540 --> 00:01:29,540 really nice job. She and her c author, 38 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:32,180 Ama horn did a really nice job pulling 39 00:01:32,180 --> 00:01:32,579 together, 40 00:01:33,473 --> 00:01:35,376 is a practical question of, 41 00:01:37,438 --> 00:01:39,262 synchronization protocols can be a little bit complex, 42 00:01:40,372 --> 00:01:43,324 and and they timing is important in those 43 00:01:43,324 --> 00:01:43,824 protocols 44 00:01:44,197 --> 00:01:46,024 to set cattle up for a lot of 45 00:01:46,024 --> 00:01:48,406 times we're talking about a timed examination or 46 00:01:48,406 --> 00:01:49,774 AAA 47 00:01:49,774 --> 00:01:51,454 timing or breeding by appointment. 48 00:01:52,734 --> 00:01:55,134 And so mistakes happen. We're dealing with humans, 49 00:01:55,774 --> 00:01:57,869 we're with people, and then just you know, 50 00:01:58,029 --> 00:01:59,867 And some of these protocols are pretty darn 51 00:01:59,867 --> 00:02:02,424 complex. Yep. Yep. Right. There's days and times 52 00:02:02,424 --> 00:02:04,662 and multiple different drugs. You're using, you know, 53 00:02:04,822 --> 00:02:07,474 2 or 3 different drugs and very pacific 54 00:02:07,474 --> 00:02:09,551 times, it's possible to switch the drugs. It's 55 00:02:09,551 --> 00:02:11,549 possible to to miss. You know, I... Oh, 56 00:02:12,188 --> 00:02:14,026 we were supposed to do that yesterday. And 57 00:02:14,026 --> 00:02:15,557 for some reason, it got put on the 58 00:02:15,557 --> 00:02:17,704 calendar for today or tomorrow and how much 59 00:02:17,704 --> 00:02:19,852 does that matter. Those are the types of 60 00:02:19,852 --> 00:02:20,988 questions that a veterinarian 61 00:02:21,602 --> 00:02:23,529 gets for their clients. If if... Again, if 62 00:02:23,529 --> 00:02:25,043 you have any clients... Do you have very 63 00:02:25,043 --> 00:02:26,659 many clients at all that are doing astra 64 00:02:26,956 --> 00:02:28,630 synchronization protocols, you will get that call once 65 00:02:28,630 --> 00:02:31,189 in a. And you get those Yes. Every 66 00:02:31,189 --> 00:02:34,462 year. Every year. Every year. And and so 67 00:02:34,913 --> 00:02:37,344 what I really like about this paper is 68 00:02:38,021 --> 00:02:39,771 the authors did a really nice job of 69 00:02:39,771 --> 00:02:41,998 going through really what are my options. And 70 00:02:41,998 --> 00:02:44,717 they and they gave us 4 options to 71 00:02:44,717 --> 00:02:45,988 do if you... 72 00:02:46,861 --> 00:02:48,926 For some reason, the protocol doesn't go as 73 00:02:48,926 --> 00:02:50,912 planned. And a and again, there's lots of 74 00:02:50,912 --> 00:02:52,634 reasons, there's just errors, there's 75 00:02:53,469 --> 00:02:53,707 you know, 76 00:02:54,661 --> 00:02:57,045 something happens somewhere else on the farming operation 77 00:02:57,045 --> 00:02:59,588 that that just... It just doesn't happen. And 78 00:02:59,588 --> 00:03:01,257 and so we we understand that. 79 00:03:01,908 --> 00:03:04,055 So they did a really nice job of 80 00:03:04,055 --> 00:03:06,202 saying, okay. Really... And they put it into 81 00:03:06,202 --> 00:03:08,213 4 categories. And I'm gonna say 82 00:03:08,747 --> 00:03:10,575 4 with 1 of them kind of being 83 00:03:10,575 --> 00:03:11,585 4 a and 4 84 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:12,739 but, 85 00:03:13,376 --> 00:03:16,002 the the first 1 is 1 that might 86 00:03:16,002 --> 00:03:17,913 work a lot of times, and that is 87 00:03:17,913 --> 00:03:20,496 to just start over again. So 88 00:03:21,106 --> 00:03:21,820 maybe you... 89 00:03:22,454 --> 00:03:24,040 This would be an example where maybe you 90 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,229 were supposed to give, 91 00:03:26,657 --> 00:03:27,291 GRH. 92 00:03:27,864 --> 00:03:30,821 Gonna t releasing hormone on a certain day, 93 00:03:31,380 --> 00:03:33,937 and you make... You messed up the bottles, 94 00:03:34,337 --> 00:03:36,175 and you gave pros land out on the 95 00:03:36,175 --> 00:03:37,942 first day. 1 of the things you can 96 00:03:37,942 --> 00:03:40,032 do is just kinda wait a few days 97 00:03:40,327 --> 00:03:41,520 and re, you know, 98 00:03:42,553 --> 00:03:44,621 restart the protocol and start with what you 99 00:03:44,621 --> 00:03:46,211 were supposed to do on day 1. Now, 100 00:03:46,623 --> 00:03:48,211 the disadvantage of that is, 101 00:03:49,322 --> 00:03:50,989 it it moves all my timing back. You 102 00:03:50,989 --> 00:03:52,577 know? So if I move back a week 103 00:03:52,577 --> 00:03:54,219 or 2 weeks or something like that. Moved 104 00:03:54,339 --> 00:03:56,177 everything back, and that may have been 1 105 00:03:56,177 --> 00:03:58,036 of the main reasons I wanted to synchronize 106 00:03:58,654 --> 00:04:01,132 was to, you know, get that first breeding 107 00:04:01,132 --> 00:04:03,224 in on a specific date. And so the 108 00:04:03,224 --> 00:04:04,825 veterinarian and the client need to have an 109 00:04:04,825 --> 00:04:06,265 honest conversation about well, 110 00:04:06,905 --> 00:04:08,685 why exactly are you 111 00:04:09,865 --> 00:04:11,717 why why are we doing this synchronization protocol. 112 00:04:11,876 --> 00:04:13,471 What are all in some of the reasons 113 00:04:13,471 --> 00:04:16,023 are to get the breeding season started really 114 00:04:16,023 --> 00:04:17,698 early to kind of front load some of 115 00:04:17,698 --> 00:04:20,545 those cows. Sometimes it's... I really really want 116 00:04:20,664 --> 00:04:22,123 some replacement he 117 00:04:23,541 --> 00:04:25,539 to be born from these Ai pregnancies. There 118 00:04:25,539 --> 00:04:27,776 there's something specific I want from the Ai 119 00:04:27,776 --> 00:04:30,105 cy that I've of selected. 120 00:04:30,899 --> 00:04:32,249 And, you know, for a pure red herd, 121 00:04:32,408 --> 00:04:34,155 it might be, you know, some specific mating 122 00:04:34,155 --> 00:04:35,822 that you want. For a commercial herd, it's 123 00:04:35,822 --> 00:04:37,252 usually about timing, 124 00:04:37,823 --> 00:04:39,733 and, you know, some of the specific things 125 00:04:39,733 --> 00:04:41,483 that I want to get from that Ai 126 00:04:41,483 --> 00:04:43,018 pregnancy. And so 127 00:04:43,393 --> 00:04:46,376 moving it back 2 weeks might be 128 00:04:47,469 --> 00:04:49,142 very doable or it might be a big 129 00:04:49,142 --> 00:04:50,814 problem. And and we need to have that 130 00:04:50,814 --> 00:04:53,682 conversation. Yeah. Could be fine or completely unacceptable. 131 00:04:53,921 --> 00:04:56,092 But but starting over as 1 of your 132 00:04:56,092 --> 00:04:58,010 options, and you and you kinda wait depending 133 00:04:58,010 --> 00:05:00,487 on what the mistake was, will impact the 134 00:05:00,487 --> 00:05:02,165 length of time that you wait. And you 135 00:05:02,165 --> 00:05:04,333 said there were 4 options, So starting over 136 00:05:04,333 --> 00:05:06,006 is the first 1. What's the second option? 137 00:05:06,325 --> 00:05:09,113 Alright. So the second option is what basically 138 00:05:09,113 --> 00:05:11,121 to kinda give up. And and that might 139 00:05:11,121 --> 00:05:12,397 be similar to what we were. So To 140 00:05:12,397 --> 00:05:13,594 put... I didn't put that 1 last. 141 00:05:14,471 --> 00:05:15,986 If I was doing them in order, I 142 00:05:15,986 --> 00:05:18,538 couldn't give up last. I I think it's 143 00:05:18,538 --> 00:05:20,945 because it's a it's a it's a legitimate 144 00:05:20,945 --> 00:05:23,016 option. And again, think about a commercial producer 145 00:05:23,016 --> 00:05:25,724 where they were doing this, so that, you 146 00:05:25,724 --> 00:05:28,114 know, that, you know, they're aiming for maybe 147 00:05:28,114 --> 00:05:31,072 having to start on March 1 or having 148 00:05:31,072 --> 00:05:33,137 to start on March fifteenth or something like 149 00:05:33,137 --> 00:05:35,203 that. And it's it's important to them that 150 00:05:35,203 --> 00:05:36,395 that they get started then. 151 00:05:37,349 --> 00:05:37,849 And 152 00:05:38,397 --> 00:05:40,785 if our... All of our options basically mean 153 00:05:40,785 --> 00:05:43,889 well we're gonna move that Ai breeding later. 154 00:05:44,606 --> 00:05:46,675 That that may not work, and that say, 155 00:05:46,834 --> 00:05:49,099 well, we're gonna gonna kinda scrap 156 00:05:49,711 --> 00:05:52,652 what we've done and turn bowls out and 157 00:05:52,652 --> 00:05:54,559 eat... You know, so now, what are some 158 00:05:54,559 --> 00:05:56,069 of the challenges? Make sure I've got enough 159 00:05:56,069 --> 00:05:58,472 bow power. We're because I was planning on 160 00:05:58,472 --> 00:05:58,950 getting 161 00:05:59,428 --> 00:06:01,442 you know, some of the mating done with 162 00:06:01,499 --> 00:06:02,296 artificial ins contamination. 163 00:06:03,650 --> 00:06:05,323 I need to make sure I've got enough 164 00:06:05,323 --> 00:06:07,414 power. Got the rest breeding season ready to 165 00:06:07,414 --> 00:06:10,394 go. But I think that is a legitimate 166 00:06:10,694 --> 00:06:12,134 option. You know, when we talk about these 167 00:06:12,134 --> 00:06:14,380 4 options, I think that's a legitimate 1 168 00:06:14,380 --> 00:06:16,441 to. Again, had an honest conversation with the 169 00:06:16,441 --> 00:06:16,941 client 170 00:06:17,472 --> 00:06:17,947 about 171 00:06:18,502 --> 00:06:21,014 what... What's gonna happen? And with my... I 172 00:06:21,292 --> 00:06:22,030 give up 173 00:06:22,403 --> 00:06:25,180 scenario. You mentioned bow power, but also I 174 00:06:25,180 --> 00:06:26,847 have to understand what are the implications of 175 00:06:26,847 --> 00:06:28,688 what I've done to this point? Right. So 176 00:06:28,688 --> 00:06:30,200 for example, if I gave him 1 shot 177 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:31,712 of plastic land and how many those cows 178 00:06:31,712 --> 00:06:32,530 are gonna be 179 00:06:32,985 --> 00:06:36,328 already synchronized. Yeah. Quite a few. Yeah. And 180 00:06:36,328 --> 00:06:36,805 so 181 00:06:37,442 --> 00:06:39,694 I my bow power needs to be really 182 00:06:39,694 --> 00:06:40,834 ready to go right 183 00:06:41,294 --> 00:06:43,134 when those... That group of animals comes in. 184 00:06:43,615 --> 00:06:45,454 Couple other things that they they brought out 185 00:06:45,454 --> 00:06:46,814 in this paper that I thought was a 186 00:06:46,814 --> 00:06:50,425 good good observation. 1 was kinda the the 187 00:06:50,425 --> 00:06:51,724 earlier in the process, 188 00:06:52,503 --> 00:06:54,500 you know. So if I catch this mistake 189 00:06:54,500 --> 00:06:54,900 early, 190 00:06:55,631 --> 00:06:59,518 that's when restarting might work pretty well. In 191 00:06:59,518 --> 00:07:02,056 in contrast, I I don't identify that I... 192 00:07:02,469 --> 00:07:05,023 Made some mistakes until, like, we're about ready 193 00:07:05,023 --> 00:07:06,242 to start 194 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:09,733 examination, but this isn't gonna work. That might 195 00:07:09,733 --> 00:07:11,250 be a situation where you just give up. 196 00:07:11,583 --> 00:07:13,885 And so even the timing of when the 197 00:07:13,885 --> 00:07:14,385 mistake 198 00:07:14,758 --> 00:07:15,654 mistake is 199 00:07:16,266 --> 00:07:16,766 identified 200 00:07:17,297 --> 00:07:19,855 influences this decision. And you know, maybe part 201 00:07:19,855 --> 00:07:21,607 of this conversation that you and I are 202 00:07:21,607 --> 00:07:23,996 having is as a veterinarian you get these 203 00:07:23,996 --> 00:07:27,203 phone calls. Well, it's not a 204 00:07:28,151 --> 00:07:30,461 1 size fits all answer? You know, I 205 00:07:30,621 --> 00:07:32,453 I need to talk to the producer. What 206 00:07:32,453 --> 00:07:34,206 exactly went wrong. Where are we in the 207 00:07:34,206 --> 00:07:37,008 product? Call, and what are your goals? Because 208 00:07:37,008 --> 00:07:38,225 those are gonna influence 209 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:40,830 the choices that I make. But restarting, 210 00:07:41,467 --> 00:07:43,713 particularly if I discover it early, It's not 211 00:07:43,713 --> 00:07:45,546 gonna be that much of a delay. Let's 212 00:07:45,546 --> 00:07:47,380 just restart it. Great option. 213 00:07:48,337 --> 00:07:49,613 Didn't discover it till late. 214 00:07:50,250 --> 00:07:51,980 I'm really kinda worried that that 215 00:07:52,737 --> 00:07:55,128 it would be a really poor performance if 216 00:07:55,128 --> 00:07:56,323 we went ahead. 217 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:58,475 That may be a time to just give 218 00:07:58,475 --> 00:07:59,910 up and say, we'll do this next year. 219 00:08:00,485 --> 00:08:02,645 K. So start over, give up what's your 220 00:08:02,645 --> 00:08:04,485 third option? The third 1 is another 1 221 00:08:04,485 --> 00:08:06,824 that that requires some knowledge of 222 00:08:07,444 --> 00:08:09,365 synchronization protocols and really what are out there. 223 00:08:10,018 --> 00:08:11,076 But that is basically 224 00:08:11,454 --> 00:08:13,847 to transfer what you were doing to a 225 00:08:13,847 --> 00:08:14,564 different protocol. 226 00:08:15,522 --> 00:08:16,080 And so, 227 00:08:16,798 --> 00:08:19,451 that might mean, just changing the timing 228 00:08:19,923 --> 00:08:22,715 of the other parts of the protocol, so 229 00:08:22,715 --> 00:08:24,172 maybe leave the progesterone 230 00:08:24,549 --> 00:08:25,745 in place longer, 231 00:08:26,861 --> 00:08:28,456 changing the timing of the, 232 00:08:29,349 --> 00:08:31,183 the pros plan and injection, those types of 233 00:08:31,183 --> 00:08:33,438 things. So, basically, you you're just converting 234 00:08:33,815 --> 00:08:36,868 the protocol that I planned to a different 235 00:08:37,006 --> 00:08:38,601 known and proven protocol. 236 00:08:39,174 --> 00:08:40,053 And and again, 237 00:08:40,693 --> 00:08:43,170 that can work if if everything's lined up 238 00:08:43,170 --> 00:08:45,167 just right. And and so... But it does 239 00:08:45,167 --> 00:08:47,265 take some knowledge of those protocols 240 00:08:47,898 --> 00:08:50,046 And you, I think I've said on some 241 00:08:50,046 --> 00:08:50,546 other 242 00:08:51,001 --> 00:08:53,229 podcasts that 1 of my sources for this 243 00:08:53,229 --> 00:08:55,711 is the beef reproduction task force. They have 244 00:08:55,711 --> 00:08:55,871 a, 245 00:08:56,826 --> 00:08:58,658 website. They do a really good job. They 246 00:08:58,658 --> 00:09:01,286 do a great job of, kind of laying 247 00:09:01,286 --> 00:09:01,786 out 248 00:09:02,401 --> 00:09:03,676 in a picture format, 249 00:09:04,089 --> 00:09:06,960 the different protocols, and they have even some, 250 00:09:07,678 --> 00:09:09,432 online tools that you can put in, you 251 00:09:09,432 --> 00:09:11,665 know, dates when you want to breed and 252 00:09:11,665 --> 00:09:13,475 the protocol you wanna use. And so 253 00:09:13,990 --> 00:09:15,919 the beef reproduction task force 254 00:09:16,292 --> 00:09:17,983 website is a great place 255 00:09:18,435 --> 00:09:18,935 to 256 00:09:19,308 --> 00:09:20,975 kinda refresh, you know, So if I'm a 257 00:09:20,975 --> 00:09:22,975 veterinarian and I get this call And my... 258 00:09:23,133 --> 00:09:24,561 1 of my questions is, well, can I 259 00:09:24,561 --> 00:09:26,703 just convert what they've done so far into 260 00:09:26,703 --> 00:09:28,527 a different protocol? I'm probably gonna have to 261 00:09:28,527 --> 00:09:29,003 look that up. 262 00:09:29,812 --> 00:09:31,483 And and look and see what's really out 263 00:09:31,483 --> 00:09:33,869 there. But that that... If it works, that's 264 00:09:33,869 --> 00:09:35,142 a really good option. 265 00:09:35,937 --> 00:09:38,502 K. So. And which is similar to kind 266 00:09:38,502 --> 00:09:40,436 of the last option, which is to modify. 267 00:09:40,813 --> 00:09:43,841 Yeah. Now the last 1, the modification and... 268 00:09:44,334 --> 00:09:46,009 A lot of times when I'm talking about 269 00:09:46,009 --> 00:09:48,003 modifying a protocol. It is, 270 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,592 you know, say, a protocol might be that 271 00:09:51,592 --> 00:09:54,279 you're going to leave a cedar in for 272 00:09:54,399 --> 00:09:56,714 5 days or 7 days, and I just 273 00:09:56,714 --> 00:09:57,752 leave it in a little bit longer. 274 00:09:58,310 --> 00:09:58,810 And 275 00:09:59,508 --> 00:10:02,062 I I adjust, you know, when I give 276 00:10:02,062 --> 00:10:05,035 my injection it might be that I I 277 00:10:05,035 --> 00:10:08,394 switched to adding a pros gland and right 278 00:10:08,394 --> 00:10:09,754 at the time I take the cedar out, 279 00:10:09,995 --> 00:10:13,200 which is not typical or or might be 280 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:14,875 typical, but it wouldn't be for all protocols. 281 00:10:15,114 --> 00:10:17,585 And so you just change some of those 282 00:10:17,585 --> 00:10:20,550 protocols, and it's not and how this is 283 00:10:20,550 --> 00:10:21,905 different than the 1 we just talked about 284 00:10:21,905 --> 00:10:23,840 is, it's not really any of the protocols 285 00:10:23,898 --> 00:10:25,493 on that website that I talked about. It's 286 00:10:25,493 --> 00:10:27,247 kind of a hybrid of a couple of 287 00:10:27,247 --> 00:10:27,747 protocols 288 00:10:28,138 --> 00:10:30,070 and it should work, but it's 289 00:10:30,445 --> 00:10:33,570 probably not gonna work quite as well as 290 00:10:33,865 --> 00:10:34,581 originally intended. 291 00:10:35,234 --> 00:10:37,812 And and that's where, again, some real good 292 00:10:37,871 --> 00:10:40,108 communication with your client because this this the 293 00:10:40,108 --> 00:10:42,585 fourth protocol... The fourth option is, 294 00:10:43,319 --> 00:10:45,157 tweak protocol, make it as good as it 295 00:10:45,157 --> 00:10:46,995 can be given the mistakes you made, 296 00:10:47,634 --> 00:10:49,392 and we're gonna still try to get a 297 00:10:49,392 --> 00:10:50,910 bunch of cow bread Ai. 298 00:10:51,404 --> 00:10:52,760 But 1 thing is you might wanna lower 299 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:53,638 your expectations. 300 00:10:54,595 --> 00:10:55,573 You might wanna 301 00:10:56,509 --> 00:10:58,758 be ready to turn cleanup bowls in, soon 302 00:10:58,758 --> 00:11:01,231 as the protocols over, you know, so basically, 303 00:11:01,311 --> 00:11:04,341 you're gonna make some adjustments. K? So your 304 00:11:04,341 --> 00:11:06,335 4 options that you've given us for these 305 00:11:06,335 --> 00:11:09,619 different protocols are start over. Give up, switch 306 00:11:09,619 --> 00:11:12,725 the protocol or modify. Yep. Everything falls into 307 00:11:12,725 --> 00:11:14,556 1 of those categories. Yeah. And on the 308 00:11:14,556 --> 00:11:16,229 modify, I kinda said I've got a 4 309 00:11:16,229 --> 00:11:16,946 and A4B. 310 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,399 And and 4 is if you're going to 311 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:21,940 do some est 312 00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:24,959 detection. In other words, it's not timed ins 313 00:11:24,959 --> 00:11:27,361 contamination gonna detect Asterisk for, you know, 3 314 00:11:27,361 --> 00:11:29,667 or 4 or 5 days and breed, you 315 00:11:29,667 --> 00:11:31,178 know, based on Est. 316 00:11:31,735 --> 00:11:33,166 The reality is you've... 317 00:11:33,896 --> 00:11:35,642 You can mess up the protocol and that 318 00:11:35,642 --> 00:11:38,102 can still work because when I say mess 319 00:11:38,102 --> 00:11:39,292 up a protocol. A lot of times what 320 00:11:39,372 --> 00:11:41,062 I'm saying is for a timed 321 00:11:41,435 --> 00:11:41,935 examination 322 00:11:42,324 --> 00:11:44,562 those cows aren't gonna all ob in as 323 00:11:44,562 --> 00:11:47,599 tied window as I originally planned. If I'm 324 00:11:47,599 --> 00:11:48,099 using 325 00:11:48,797 --> 00:11:49,297 Esther 326 00:11:49,677 --> 00:11:49,836 detection. 327 00:11:50,715 --> 00:11:52,324 It's okay if they spread out over a 328 00:11:52,324 --> 00:11:54,231 few days because I've got the labor in 329 00:11:54,231 --> 00:11:57,568 the facilities and the expertise to to observe 330 00:11:57,568 --> 00:11:59,237 for Est, you know, at least a couple 331 00:11:59,237 --> 00:12:01,583 of times a day, spread and be breeding 332 00:12:01,642 --> 00:12:03,020 over several days 333 00:12:03,398 --> 00:12:06,671 rather than at 1 time point. So 4 334 00:12:06,671 --> 00:12:09,146 a is, you know, just your protocol, but 335 00:12:09,146 --> 00:12:09,646 add 336 00:12:10,199 --> 00:12:11,874 est detection or maybe that was gonna be 337 00:12:11,874 --> 00:12:14,447 your plan anyway. Now we're no longer 338 00:12:14,984 --> 00:12:17,797 tied into having a really tight window for 339 00:12:18,254 --> 00:12:21,374 populations and charge on. The 4 b is... 340 00:12:21,691 --> 00:12:23,359 No. We're we're gonna do 341 00:12:23,756 --> 00:12:25,423 a timed examination. Right? 342 00:12:26,773 --> 00:12:30,208 It just probably won't be as... Not as 343 00:12:30,208 --> 00:12:32,145 high percentage of the cows are gonna o 344 00:12:32,283 --> 00:12:34,040 in the window that I wanted them to. 345 00:12:34,678 --> 00:12:36,594 So these authors and I would agree with 346 00:12:36,594 --> 00:12:38,884 them. Maybe that's not the place to use 347 00:12:39,163 --> 00:12:42,135 really expensive scene. Maybe that's a place where 348 00:12:43,149 --> 00:12:45,860 you turn in cleanup bowls rather than keeping 349 00:12:45,860 --> 00:12:47,295 cleanup bowls out for a few weeks, 350 00:12:48,109 --> 00:12:49,707 so that you can tell the difference between 351 00:12:49,787 --> 00:12:51,864 Ai pregnancies and bull pregnancies just turn the 352 00:12:51,864 --> 00:12:52,604 bulls in, 353 00:12:53,382 --> 00:12:55,220 you know, 12 hours after you've vet finished 354 00:12:55,220 --> 00:12:57,313 your Ai you know, a day, and get 355 00:12:57,313 --> 00:12:59,391 them in there. So because I know there's 356 00:12:59,391 --> 00:13:00,509 still cows coming into heat, 357 00:13:01,468 --> 00:13:03,546 away from that window that I originally planned. 358 00:13:03,706 --> 00:13:06,114 So kind of 4 is well, add a 359 00:13:06,114 --> 00:13:06,614 est 360 00:13:06,990 --> 00:13:09,002 detection. For b is 361 00:13:09,457 --> 00:13:10,014 charge on, 362 00:13:10,731 --> 00:13:13,915 but lower your expectations be prepared for... This 363 00:13:13,915 --> 00:13:15,680 isn't gonna be the best breed I've ever 364 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:18,862 had. K? So given that we have those 365 00:13:18,862 --> 00:13:20,214 options, and this is a really good paper 366 00:13:20,214 --> 00:13:21,940 explaining them. I'm gonna give you some specific 367 00:13:22,218 --> 00:13:24,149 scenarios. Okay. And you decide 368 00:13:24,524 --> 00:13:26,352 which of those 4 options you want to 369 00:13:26,352 --> 00:13:28,976 do. Okay. Alright? And, luckily, I didn't prepare 370 00:13:28,976 --> 00:13:30,169 you for this. So you could go off 371 00:13:30,169 --> 00:13:31,123 the top of your head. Alright. 372 00:13:32,488 --> 00:13:33,441 Option 1, 373 00:13:33,918 --> 00:13:36,879 I have a group of commercial cows 374 00:13:37,253 --> 00:13:40,453 that I'm planning to do fixed time Ai. 375 00:13:41,239 --> 00:13:43,956 And my rationale is I want them to 376 00:13:43,956 --> 00:13:46,274 continue calvin at the first of the calvin 377 00:13:46,274 --> 00:13:48,271 season, and I'm gonna do a 7 day 378 00:13:48,271 --> 00:13:49,230 c cedar, 379 00:13:50,362 --> 00:13:53,142 7 day c plus cedar, which means I'm 380 00:13:53,142 --> 00:13:55,684 giving G h on day 0, along with 381 00:13:55,684 --> 00:13:58,226 putting in a cedar, day 7 pros landing, 382 00:13:59,277 --> 00:14:01,989 66 hours later. I'll give GRH and a. 383 00:14:02,308 --> 00:14:04,063 That's my plan. That's a pretty common protocol. 384 00:14:04,302 --> 00:14:07,572 Yeah. I call you on day 3, and 385 00:14:07,652 --> 00:14:09,979 I say instead of giving G h on 386 00:14:09,979 --> 00:14:10,537 day 0, 387 00:14:11,254 --> 00:14:15,000 I gave pros landed. Mh. Now you would 388 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,300 recommend I start over, give up, switch protocol 389 00:14:18,356 --> 00:14:19,547 or modify. Well, 390 00:14:20,262 --> 00:14:22,326 honestly, all 4 are on the table, and 391 00:14:22,326 --> 00:14:24,391 they might be right for a certain situation. 392 00:14:24,962 --> 00:14:25,995 This is 1 where, 393 00:14:26,869 --> 00:14:27,107 yeah, 394 00:14:27,901 --> 00:14:30,126 switching protocols might work really well and that 395 00:14:30,126 --> 00:14:31,897 you could switch to a different protocol 396 00:14:32,429 --> 00:14:32,929 where 397 00:14:33,318 --> 00:14:35,379 you do give pros land on the first 398 00:14:35,379 --> 00:14:36,989 day of the cedar 399 00:14:37,757 --> 00:14:39,581 that place the cedar. I just leave the 400 00:14:39,581 --> 00:14:41,840 cedar in for 14 days. Instead of 401 00:14:42,528 --> 00:14:45,697 the the typical 7 days. Now what that 402 00:14:45,697 --> 00:14:48,049 has done is it's dropped my eyes 403 00:14:48,725 --> 00:14:50,872 fixed time Ai back a week. Yeah. So 404 00:14:50,872 --> 00:14:52,701 then I lost a week. Yep. I lost 405 00:14:52,701 --> 00:14:55,007 a week. Is that okay? Is 406 00:14:55,563 --> 00:14:58,281 can I get the the the the ins 407 00:14:58,281 --> 00:15:00,188 inc, they are are a week later? 408 00:15:00,983 --> 00:15:02,334 It is a... And then my cows are 409 00:15:02,334 --> 00:15:04,339 gonna have a week later. And I that's 410 00:15:04,339 --> 00:15:06,417 not necessarily ideal, but how how big a 411 00:15:06,417 --> 00:15:07,696 deal is that. So that is 1 of 412 00:15:07,696 --> 00:15:09,374 the options we could talk about is. We 413 00:15:09,374 --> 00:15:11,552 could just switch to a different protocol. 414 00:15:12,970 --> 00:15:13,470 And 415 00:15:14,024 --> 00:15:16,524 and have pretty good... And I would say 416 00:15:16,825 --> 00:15:17,325 equal 417 00:15:17,705 --> 00:15:18,205 success 418 00:15:18,745 --> 00:15:20,424 is just gonna be a week later. The 419 00:15:20,424 --> 00:15:22,320 other thing we could do is 420 00:15:22,678 --> 00:15:25,311 for a or 4 b in that, if 421 00:15:25,311 --> 00:15:26,450 you had the ability 422 00:15:26,987 --> 00:15:27,487 to 423 00:15:28,024 --> 00:15:31,393 do some sync... Or s detection. Just kinda 424 00:15:31,393 --> 00:15:32,911 charge on with that protocol and do what 425 00:15:32,911 --> 00:15:34,589 you were supposed to do, which is actually 426 00:15:34,589 --> 00:15:37,306 a pros landing at the day you remove 427 00:15:37,306 --> 00:15:37,785 the cedar. 428 00:15:38,679 --> 00:15:40,036 I probably don't have quite as good as 429 00:15:40,036 --> 00:15:42,611 sync. It's not gonna give me that great 430 00:15:43,309 --> 00:15:44,607 timed examination 431 00:15:45,225 --> 00:15:46,821 breed up that I want, but if I'm 432 00:15:46,821 --> 00:15:47,561 doing Est 433 00:15:47,954 --> 00:15:50,507 detection. That'll be fine. I could even charge 434 00:15:50,507 --> 00:15:52,422 ahead and just do the time examination there. 435 00:15:52,581 --> 00:15:54,097 It's just not gonna... I'm not gonna get 436 00:15:54,097 --> 00:15:55,269 my the best 437 00:15:55,949 --> 00:15:57,147 breed up that I would have if I 438 00:15:57,147 --> 00:15:58,985 done the protocol right. So if I was 439 00:15:58,985 --> 00:16:00,423 the veterinarian and then I got that call, 440 00:16:00,983 --> 00:16:02,501 I would want to... Honestly, 441 00:16:03,220 --> 00:16:04,752 I, I refer to have that face to 442 00:16:04,752 --> 00:16:06,985 face conversation with the client and really help 443 00:16:06,985 --> 00:16:09,060 them understand the pluses and minuses of each 444 00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:09,858 of their options. 445 00:16:10,496 --> 00:16:10,950 So 446 00:16:11,308 --> 00:16:12,744 and I think that's a really good point 447 00:16:12,744 --> 00:16:14,737 because all of them are on the table 448 00:16:14,737 --> 00:16:16,252 for each of these. It's not like there's 449 00:16:16,252 --> 00:16:17,927 a singular best fit where I'm gonna give 450 00:16:17,927 --> 00:16:19,123 you a problem year to go, oh, you 451 00:16:19,123 --> 00:16:21,292 have to do this. Right. Alright. Alright. So 452 00:16:21,292 --> 00:16:22,091 let me give you another problem. 453 00:16:22,969 --> 00:16:25,124 I'm going to... I have he that I 454 00:16:25,124 --> 00:16:27,040 would like to breed, and I would really 455 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,057 like to get them bread Ai 456 00:16:30,009 --> 00:16:32,570 because I'm making the genetic lines that I 457 00:16:32,570 --> 00:16:35,450 want. So I am I want them bread 458 00:16:35,529 --> 00:16:36,009 Ai. 459 00:16:36,649 --> 00:16:37,710 Based on your 460 00:16:38,090 --> 00:16:40,497 recommendation, I appreciate recommending this program for me. 461 00:16:40,736 --> 00:16:42,327 I'm gonna do a 14 day cedar, 462 00:16:42,884 --> 00:16:43,384 pros 463 00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:45,192 and timed Ai. 464 00:16:45,828 --> 00:16:47,897 So I put in a cedar on day 465 00:16:47,897 --> 00:16:49,923 0, take it out on day 14, 466 00:16:50,934 --> 00:16:52,841 then we do pros landing on day 30, 467 00:16:53,159 --> 00:16:54,431 GRH and Ai, 468 00:16:55,147 --> 00:16:56,101 couple days later. Yeah. 469 00:16:56,832 --> 00:16:59,540 You told me these he because I put 470 00:16:59,540 --> 00:17:01,372 them together from a couple different sources. 471 00:17:02,408 --> 00:17:03,625 You told me that 472 00:17:04,001 --> 00:17:06,085 I should watch after I took cedar out 473 00:17:06,085 --> 00:17:07,830 and see if any of them how do 474 00:17:07,830 --> 00:17:09,576 they do coming into heat. Right? They should 475 00:17:09,576 --> 00:17:10,608 have a heat afterwards. 476 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,672 I watched pretty closely. I put in for 477 00:17:14,672 --> 00:17:16,185 2 weeks. I took it out. I watched 478 00:17:16,185 --> 00:17:17,300 pretty darn closely, 479 00:17:17,698 --> 00:17:19,688 and I didn't see any of them in 480 00:17:19,688 --> 00:17:22,497 heat. So I called you, and I'm going 481 00:17:22,729 --> 00:17:24,880 what now, Which of my 4, start over, 482 00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:26,871 give up, switch protocol modify. 483 00:17:27,269 --> 00:17:29,340 Alright. Well, this... This this would be 1 484 00:17:29,340 --> 00:17:30,854 where I would need to... First of all, 485 00:17:31,092 --> 00:17:32,861 I'm really glad my client called me because 486 00:17:32,861 --> 00:17:34,855 if they hadn't and it just charged on 487 00:17:34,855 --> 00:17:36,132 with what they were planning to do. It's 488 00:17:36,132 --> 00:17:37,408 not gonna work. It's not gonna Is not 489 00:17:37,408 --> 00:17:40,199 gonna work. He need to audio, need to 490 00:17:40,199 --> 00:17:41,635 show asterisk in order to get pregnant. 491 00:17:42,845 --> 00:17:45,075 And so I On. I'm writing it down. 492 00:17:45,235 --> 00:17:47,386 Yeah. Write that 1 down. And so this 493 00:17:47,386 --> 00:17:48,443 is 1 where, 494 00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:50,572 you gotta really investigate what's going on here. 495 00:17:50,891 --> 00:17:51,860 It. Is 496 00:17:52,576 --> 00:17:53,292 are the he, 497 00:17:54,723 --> 00:17:56,790 I and I'd pal the he. I'd I'd 498 00:17:56,949 --> 00:17:58,857 I'd... I would go in and evaluate those 499 00:17:58,857 --> 00:17:59,096 he. 500 00:17:59,750 --> 00:18:01,590 Had they reach puberty? Is this a good 501 00:18:01,590 --> 00:18:04,230 group to have started this synchronization protocol? 502 00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:08,643 If it's even possible things like, well, We've 503 00:18:08,643 --> 00:18:09,840 got Mg in the feed, 504 00:18:10,798 --> 00:18:13,692 either on purpose or accidentally or whatever. There's 505 00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:14,250 something 506 00:18:14,628 --> 00:18:15,905 not going well. 507 00:18:16,557 --> 00:18:19,426 I am probably going to scrap this 1. 508 00:18:19,585 --> 00:18:21,258 Yeah. I I mean, we're late enough into 509 00:18:21,258 --> 00:18:24,063 this. I'm probably going to scrap it. Although 510 00:18:24,223 --> 00:18:26,160 I will say those other 511 00:18:26,538 --> 00:18:28,634 options are on the table in a given 512 00:18:28,693 --> 00:18:30,210 situation, I might choose 1 of the other 513 00:18:30,210 --> 00:18:31,647 options switched to a different protocol, 514 00:18:32,046 --> 00:18:33,996 restart. Those types of things. But 515 00:18:34,689 --> 00:18:36,519 this is 1... It was discovered late, 516 00:18:38,429 --> 00:18:41,653 and it has some evidence that 517 00:18:42,752 --> 00:18:44,749 this is not a group that that charging 518 00:18:44,749 --> 00:18:46,108 ahead and doing the 519 00:18:46,827 --> 00:18:50,196 protocol as originally planned. That's probably the the 520 00:18:50,196 --> 00:18:51,952 worst option. So we got time for me 521 00:18:51,952 --> 00:18:53,947 to give you 1 more. Okay. I'm ready 522 00:18:53,947 --> 00:18:56,421 for. So this time, I'm doing my he, 523 00:18:56,501 --> 00:18:58,823 and it's it's mostly that I want to 524 00:18:58,823 --> 00:19:00,355 get them synced early 525 00:19:00,968 --> 00:19:02,398 because I'm feeding them in a dry lot, 526 00:19:02,874 --> 00:19:04,066 I'm gonna use Mg. 527 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,160 Instead of instead of going with Cedar. And 528 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,359 I'm gonna use the Mg, 529 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,039 pros and in timed Ai. Alright. And the... 530 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:12,099 That protocol 531 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,570 requires me to feed Mg for 14 days. 532 00:19:15,127 --> 00:19:17,832 19 days later, give a pros landing, then 533 00:19:17,832 --> 00:19:19,979 breed 3 days later with G at the 534 00:19:19,979 --> 00:19:20,536 time of breeding. 535 00:19:21,109 --> 00:19:23,746 My goal, get them bread early, but I've 536 00:19:23,746 --> 00:19:25,904 started them on feed on Mg, and I 537 00:19:25,904 --> 00:19:27,203 call you 1 weekend, 538 00:19:27,742 --> 00:19:30,392 and I say, this stuff's not working. I've 539 00:19:30,392 --> 00:19:33,249 got He cycling. I see about 5 percent 540 00:19:33,249 --> 00:19:35,789 of them a day cycling in this pen. 541 00:19:36,344 --> 00:19:36,979 What should I do? 542 00:19:37,948 --> 00:19:40,420 Alright. Well, again, I'm really glad that my 543 00:19:40,420 --> 00:19:42,891 client called me because that's not supposed to 544 00:19:42,891 --> 00:19:43,131 happen. 545 00:19:43,928 --> 00:19:45,841 We we shouldn't have animals breaking through showing 546 00:19:45,921 --> 00:19:48,011 Est after they've been on Ng for a 547 00:19:48,011 --> 00:19:50,805 week. Again, we're gonna evaluate what is going 548 00:19:50,805 --> 00:19:51,204 on there. 549 00:19:52,321 --> 00:19:54,237 I might evaluate some of the He just 550 00:19:54,237 --> 00:19:55,035 to see, you know, 551 00:19:55,766 --> 00:19:57,275 exactly what is it that he's seeing. 552 00:19:57,990 --> 00:20:00,691 But this is 1 where... Really, I've got 553 00:20:00,691 --> 00:20:02,677 2 options. Alright, well, actually, I've got all 554 00:20:02,677 --> 00:20:04,759 4 to be honest So gonna narrow down 555 00:20:04,759 --> 00:20:06,191 to. I'm gonna narrow it down to 2 556 00:20:06,191 --> 00:20:09,054 that I would probably lean towards. 1 is, 557 00:20:09,452 --> 00:20:10,566 well, fix the problem. 558 00:20:11,299 --> 00:20:13,876 You know, is the is the feed 559 00:20:14,735 --> 00:20:16,493 wasn't ordered correctly or the mill didn't do 560 00:20:16,493 --> 00:20:18,411 something right, and and it doesn't have the 561 00:20:18,411 --> 00:20:20,343 mg in it that the level that I 562 00:20:20,343 --> 00:20:22,580 want? Is there something wrong with the feeding 563 00:20:22,580 --> 00:20:24,498 mechanisms where I don't have not bunk space 564 00:20:24,498 --> 00:20:27,029 and some animals aren't getting their Mg? Or 565 00:20:27,149 --> 00:20:28,898 aren't getting their feet every day. You know, 566 00:20:29,216 --> 00:20:30,250 try to figure out why, 567 00:20:31,204 --> 00:20:33,192 obviously, these he aren't getting the dose of 568 00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:35,020 Mg that they need on a daily basis. 569 00:20:35,273 --> 00:20:37,337 So figure out why and fix that. But 570 00:20:37,337 --> 00:20:38,210 we're a week late. 571 00:20:38,765 --> 00:20:40,591 So 1 thing I could do is just 572 00:20:40,591 --> 00:20:42,654 extend that instead of Mg for 14 days, 573 00:20:42,733 --> 00:20:45,853 go 21 days. That ideal? No? Assuming I 574 00:20:45,853 --> 00:20:47,528 fixed the problem. Assuming I fixed the problem, 575 00:20:47,847 --> 00:20:51,117 I basically just restart right the day that 576 00:20:51,197 --> 00:20:52,713 I get it fixed. So, hopefully, today or 577 00:20:52,713 --> 00:20:54,400 tomorrow I'll get it fixed and I think 578 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,256 that's a a legitimate option. It might decrease 579 00:20:57,256 --> 00:20:58,923 my breed up a little bit, but I 580 00:20:58,923 --> 00:21:00,986 don't expect it to decrease it tremendously. 581 00:21:01,478 --> 00:21:03,707 So that kinda restart would be on the 582 00:21:03,707 --> 00:21:04,503 table for this 1. 583 00:21:05,539 --> 00:21:06,596 The other 1 584 00:21:07,211 --> 00:21:07,711 is 585 00:21:08,166 --> 00:21:09,383 and this one's, I 586 00:21:09,932 --> 00:21:10,568 I'm pausing. 587 00:21:11,443 --> 00:21:13,375 I could still fix it and 588 00:21:14,465 --> 00:21:17,487 finish off in 14 days rather than 21. 589 00:21:18,138 --> 00:21:19,968 And still go ahead with the protocol, 590 00:21:20,366 --> 00:21:22,991 my pros landing in 33 days after I 591 00:21:22,991 --> 00:21:23,309 started, 592 00:21:24,184 --> 00:21:24,684 and 593 00:21:25,234 --> 00:21:27,551 basically, so I basically finish off the protocol 594 00:21:27,551 --> 00:21:29,709 the way it is after I've fixed the 595 00:21:29,709 --> 00:21:31,067 m mg delivery problem, 596 00:21:31,707 --> 00:21:33,545 and it's kind of into that 4 b. 597 00:21:33,878 --> 00:21:35,550 I'm gonna continue. I'm gonna do what I 598 00:21:35,550 --> 00:21:37,382 was planning to do. I'm not gonna have 599 00:21:37,382 --> 00:21:39,611 quite as good of of successes I would 600 00:21:39,611 --> 00:21:42,333 have, but if my goal is, well, Don't 601 00:21:42,333 --> 00:21:43,929 wanna drop it back a week. I don't 602 00:21:43,929 --> 00:21:45,285 want to delay anything. 603 00:21:46,721 --> 00:21:49,089 We'll we'll charge on and fix it and 604 00:21:49,209 --> 00:21:50,881 fit and just do the protocol on the 605 00:21:50,881 --> 00:21:52,075 days that they had planned. 606 00:21:52,632 --> 00:21:54,144 I'm just probably not getting get quite as 607 00:21:54,144 --> 00:21:55,258 good to breed up as I would have 608 00:21:55,258 --> 00:21:55,418 gotten. 609 00:21:56,134 --> 00:21:56,851 And and again, 610 00:21:57,503 --> 00:21:58,802 so much of this involves 611 00:21:59,339 --> 00:22:01,415 communication and and really understanding the pluses and 612 00:22:01,415 --> 00:22:02,793 minuses each of those 613 00:22:03,251 --> 00:22:05,747 4 options. So common problems 614 00:22:06,459 --> 00:22:08,373 put them in those different solutions, but it's 615 00:22:08,373 --> 00:22:11,244 all based on the context or the situation 616 00:22:11,244 --> 00:22:12,999 where you are. So I really appreciate you 617 00:22:12,999 --> 00:22:14,435 walking us through some of those and I 618 00:22:14,435 --> 00:22:17,420 like the 4 solutions from that article by 619 00:22:17,716 --> 00:22:18,591 Jessica K. 620 00:22:19,227 --> 00:22:21,613 And they said you can either start over, 621 00:22:21,852 --> 00:22:24,410 give up switch protocols or modify, which is 622 00:22:24,410 --> 00:22:26,951 your 4 and 4 b. So appreciate you 623 00:22:26,951 --> 00:22:28,778 sharing with us today, Bob. You bet. Thank 624 00:22:28,778 --> 00:22:28,936 you.