Welcome to the Money is Emotional podcast
with Christine
Lukin,
the financial
dignity
coach. In this podcast,
we help you recover a positive and peaceful
relationship with your personal finances.
We do this by bringing together wise money
management
with emotional intelligence.
Join us for this journey where we navigate
our relationship with money as Christine
Lukin draws from years of experience and guest
experts to help you get to the root
of your money issues.
Oh, hello, my friend. Welcome to the Money
is Emotional podcast.
I am your host, Christine Lukin.
Today's episode is widowed at 35.
I am honored to welcome my special guest,
Katrina Wisdom.
Katrina is a powerhouse
abundance activator and strategist,
best selling author, TEDx speaker, and the visionary
behind the Anatomy of Abundance framework.
As the founder of Pure Abundance Inc, she
has dedicated her life to helping high achieving
women
redefine success,
shift from scarcity to abundance, and intentionally
build
prosperous lives on their own terms.
Petrina believes that every woman deserves a life
filled with joy, financial freedom, self care, and
community.
Her approach
dismantles
outdated narratives about money and replaces them with
actionable principles for achieving financial independence and
generational
wealth.
With a focus on alignment, intentionality,
and unapologetic
self love, Katrina inspires her clients to take
bold action,
live with purpose, and embrace their most
abundant,
authentic selves.
Welcome, Katrina.
Thank you. It's such a pleasure to be
here.
Yeah. So you have a very interesting story
with money, don't you?
Absolutely. Yes.
Yeah. Well and, you know, it doesn't
it it kinda starts out on a rough
note. I mean, you went through a very
tragic experience of being widowed
at 35
years
young.
Can you tell us about
your relationship with money before and during
that pivotal period in your life?
Yes.
So it is a very
story, and it didn't actually start when I
became a widow at 35.
It actually started a lot earlier.
I was actually born to a single mom
who was 16 years old when she had
me.
And although her and my dad were together
for an extended period of time, they never
did get married. And so, essentially, I was
raised
in a single parent household.
And with that came a lot of struggle.
My mom was in the entertainment industry as
a model and,
you know, a lot of different other aspects
of entertainment.
And you know that when you're in that
sort of an industry, you're living paycheck to
paycheck essentially because you're as good as your
last job.
So I watched a lot of highs and
lows as far as money was concerned with
my mom, and my mom was a spender.
Right? She was a spender. She didn't have
financial education.
She didn't have any kind of guidance around
money and how to build wealth. And then
on the other side, my dad who was
more than a decade her senior, but that's
not the conversation we're having today.
He actually was military,
and he came from a family of,
two parent household with lots of siblings, like,
totally different upbringing.
And so he had some foundations
that, obviously, my mom did not have. He
was very, like, fixed and more conservative with
money. He was a saver. He invested. Right?
But his narrative was very much like work
hard,
save, deny self, kind of. That was the
archetype I saw with him. And with my
mom, I saw, like, freedom and play. And
one of her favorite sayings was, like, I
work hard for my money, so I deserve
fill in the blank. Right?
So this was the background that came from,
which was very kind of up and down.
And I think if you're a child in
that situation, you could go either way. Either
you become that very, you know,
fixed type of, person in regard to money
or you become reckless.
And so two very different extremes that I
watched. And so I made a decision at
a very young age that, a, I wasn't
gonna get married, I wasn't gonna have kids,
and that I was gonna figure this money
thing out.
I wanted to find a happy medium because
in my core,
freedom and play are core values of mine,
but I also have that other half within
me that desires
a level of stability and a level of
I'll say decadence because I like nice things,
and that's just what it is.
So at 15 years old,
I meet someone,
and I fall in love immediately. I thought
love at first sight is so corny,
and then it happened to me. It wasn't
as corny anymore. Right. And so long story
short, we're together for, like, twelve years, two
cars, two houses, two children at this point.
And not very romantic, but we look over
at each other one morning while we're laying
in bed, and we're like, maybe we should
get married.
So, like, legally, it just makes sense at
that point. Right?
And so you can only imagine my devastation
when at 35 years old, at this point,
I've been married for, like, twenty plus years,
you know, not even planning to be married.
I've fallen in love with being a mom.
I've fallen in love with being a wife.
I've fallen in love with this, like, picket
fence lifestyle that I never wanted, but then
had an opportunity to experience.
And then comes that fateful day.
Saturday, I think it was no. It was
Tuesday, I believe.
February,
where my husband woke up one morning, put
on his suit and tie,
grabbed his briefcase, gave me and three kids
at that time
a kiss goodbye, told us he loved us,
and walked out the door knowing he wasn't
coming home.
So he went missing. He went missing for
twenty four hours.
And I was calling. I was texting. I
was very stressed. You know, we as women,
we have that intuition, and I just knew
something was wrong.
And then the next morning, I woke up
to a phone call saying that my husband
had taken his life.
Oh. So quite devastating.
Yes. And if that wasn't enough
if that wasn't enough, the cherry on top
of the cake is that I had also
found out that same day that I was
pregnant with my fourth child.
So now I'm a single mom Oh my
gosh.
Head of household Oh my gosh.
Inherit his financial business
aside from having my own entrepreneurial bit ventures
in business
and pregnant.
Insane. Wow.
Yeah. That's
that's a lot to deal with.
Yes. That is a lot to deal with.
Yes.
So
let's talk about,
you know, what what was your relationship
like with money? Did you know, because you
said he had a financial business. Did he
handle the majority of the finances in your
family?
Indeed. So one of the things I respect
so much about my late husband is that
he came from a two family household,
military dad and a, teacher who for a
mom. So they had a lot of foundation.
They owned homes, all of these things that
I hadn't experienced as a child.
And one of the things he was very
adamant about was involving me in the finances.
Kicking and screaming, by the way. Kicking and
screaming. I didn't wanna have any parts of
that. I'm like, you take care of it.
You pay the bills. You handle the finance,
and I'll handle literally everything else. Okay? I
had no interest.
And so he would sit me down at
the table, and it was kinda morbid,
like, thinking back, actually, but he would be
like, well, you know, if something happened to
me, if I die tomorrow, you need to
know x, y, and z. And he would
involve me in his financial business and make
me go to these financial education seminars.
And, obviously, in retrospect,
I am so happy that he did
because unbeknownst to me, when he passed, I
actually knew way more than I thought I
did.
And although I was very scared and quite
honestly triggered
because it's like now everything falls on me,
I was also on some level prepared.
Yeah.
Yeah. Well and so you inherited
this business, which was a financial business.
Oh, yeah. It wasn't just him. Right? There
were employees. Oh. You know? How did you
find the courage to step into that role
of leadership of leading that business?
Something happens within you when you're backed into
a corner. Right? And I'm someone who far
beyond like, far
before I even got married, had kids, and
I started experiencing
all of this roller coaster of challenges and
trauma, there was a lot of challenges and
trauma growing up as well. And so I
think I was pretty well equipped at that
point to handle challenges.
And,
I had already built up a certain amount
of resilience.
And so I remember
so vividly the day my husband passed,
in the moment of just complete hopelessness and
grief,
that there was this little light of hope
within inside of me that said, You know
what? Not only am I going to get
through this, but I'm going to thrive. And
I'm going to be the example to other
women of what it looks like to get
on the other side of this type of
a tragedy
and still shine,
right, and make it through. So even though
I was scared crapless,
you know, knees shaking, really kind of unsure
of myself, there was a part of me
that had a peace because I knew that
everything happened for a reason. And I just
said, you know what, Katrina? It doesn't matter
if you don't know. It doesn't matter if
you're scared. Just lean in.
And so that's what I did. And like
I said, unbeknownst to me, I actually
knew more than I thought I knew.
And then we as women were very intuitive
as well. But I think a lot of
it was just sheer determination, to be honest.
Yeah.
Well, and I would imagine that you probably
had
some people on your money team, some mentors,
and financial professionals that
helped and guided you through that. Is that
Yes. And. Say that was true?
Yes. And so
you have to imagine that
there were I don't even know how many
clients that were depending on him, I e,
now me. Yeah. There were team members, a
part of our brokerage, that were now looking
to me for guidance.
Not only am I having the experience of
grief and loss and devastation,
but they are as well.
And so everyone deals with grief differently. Like
you say, money is emotional, right? And you
never know how that's going to come up
for people.
So what happened is there were a lot
of people that definitely stepped up and supported
me and did what they could to help
me through that. But there were also a
lot of people who,
oof,
who almost saw this as an opportunity
to take that spot. Does that make sense?
Like Yeah. Some underlying stuff potentially that was
going on or
whatever. And I ended up getting the backlash
a lot of that. And so it was
a very
challenging time. However, I do believe that it
made me the person that I am today.
It made me stronger.
I definitely had to find and exercise my
voice in a way that I had never
had to exercise it before.
And I think also what it did is
it gave me a level of relatability
with the clients that I would sit with
because I would let them know, like, hey.
You know, I've been a part of this
for x amount of time, but this is
something that,
you know, I'm not I'm not new with.
I'm not
seasoned at this. So it made me human,
which I think made me very successful as
well in that realm.
Yeah. And isn't that interesting
that when we
share our vulner vulnerabilities
with
clients
that,
you know, it it's almost the opposite of
what you would expect. Right? It's like we
don't wanna share that we have weaknesses because
we want people to have confidence in us.
But when we admit, like, hey, I don't
have all the answers. Like, I can I
can find them, but I might not have
them right now,
and I make mistakes too,
that
that actually endears them to us and says,
oh, okay? Like, you're
you're not above me. You're we're in this
together.
Yeah. I had this mantra running in my
head during that period of time
that was, like, all of the things that
make me not a fit for the financial
industry
is actually what make me perfect for the
financial industry. Like, I don't fit in. I
have a totally different voice. Right? Like, just
all of these things. And so when I
leaned into my differences,
embraced my vulnerability,
and just really connected with the clients and
our team members as humans,
that was when I started to really, like,
find my stride.
Yeah.
I love that. Well, let's talk about the
outdated
narratives
about money, especially as they relate to women.
Is there one or two that you feel
are particularly
harmful to women? And
what's what what's a new narrative that we
should adopt?
Yeah. So there's really just one that screams
at me because just like women are are
told that, oh, well, women aren't good at
math,
women are also told that we're not good
with money. And the truth of the matter
is it's not that we're not good with
money. It's that we're new at money. So
a lot of people don't realize that we,
as women, we didn't even have the right
to handle money,
to have our own bank accounts, to sign
for home mortgages
on our own until the sixties.
Right? Not the thirties. The sixties.
Okay? So
and even still, a lot of women are
not exposed.
Right? If you're not invited into the financial
conversation or if you don't fight to be
a part of the financial conversation,
most likely you're not gonna learn. Right? And
you're not gonna build that confidence.
And so you have to either have a
husband like mine who was like, no. You're
gonna sit down. We're gonna do this together.
Or you have to be someone who has
that hunger and desire. But the gap between
those two is large.
It is.
You know, I I did a a podcast
episode some time ago
on girl math,
and I talked about
you're laughing because you know what this is.
Right? I know exactly. But, you know, it's
kinda like the the cutesy things that,
that that women say about money that are
actually
quite damaging. And
as I was preparing for that episode and
really digging into the stats about women and
money, you know, I I am a solid
Gen Xer. I was born in '73.
And as I was doing research,
yeah, us resilient Gen Xers. Right? Yeah.
I was I was doing research, and what
I was hoping to find
is that
millennials and Gen Z women
were more financially literate
and more financially proactive,
and I was actually not finding that,
which to me was
disheartening
because,
you know, to me, it's like I know
that
having
power over your finances
is
a very important part of having personal power.
Yeah.
And so I am right there with you
that,
you know, it doesn't matter what your past
is if you haven't been involved.
Yeah. It's it's time to start. It's time
to start now. Financial literacy
is
not an inborn
ability. It's not a talent. Right? This is
something that we can learn on purpose.
And it's a journey. I wanna make sure
that we bring forth this,
well, actually dispel
this idea
that, like, you learn it and that's it.
And, like, the rest of the time, you're
everything's peachy keen because it's not. That's total
BS. Right? I've been having financial concepts pounded
into me throughout my entire marriage.
I was I've been a part of the
financial industry now for over twenty years,
and still,
I have tendency to to be challenged by
certain things because a lot of times we
know information. And even when we know,
we're not always applying those things. Why? Because
money is emotional,
and there's gonna be certain times where we're
gonna be spending and having these compulsions
without even understanding or knowing that we're doing
it.
So even myself, as someone who's a financial
professional,
I have highs and lows with money, and
that's where I had to just be I
had to become very resolved to the fact
that money is not fixed,
that it's fluid, and that it's meant to
be regenerated. It goes in, it comes out,
it comes in, it goes out, just like
the ocean. And so when I was able
to detach my identity
from money
and really start thinking about money as a
tool instead of something that defines me or
makes me smart or whatever
story you've wrapped around that money,
my life became much more abundant.
Right? Because now I can embrace whichever part
of the flow I'm in
and then re re,
like, refocus and course correct when needed. Like,
I have the awareness and the knowledge.
And so when I get off track, I
can get myself back on track. And I
just think that's a very important message specifically
for us as women to hear because we're
so hard on ourselves. We're expected to be
perfect at everything,
all the time.
Dare to enter the Wealthy Woman Book Club,
where answers exist to forbidden questions,
where women of all ages and income
secretly gather,
where knowledge is shared,
where possibilities
are explored,
where women claim their power.
Dare to stay a spell in the Wealthy
Woman Book Club.
In this place, we lift each other up.
In this place, we start dreaming again.
In this place,
we see financial
miracles.
In this place,
we grow through the glory
and the failure.
In this place,
we step into a new identity.
Dare to champion the Wealthy Woman Book Club.
We're creating a future where women are financially
empowered across the globe.
We're creating a future where our daughters
stand on equal financial footing with our sons.
We're creating a future where we purchase without
principles
rather than price tags.
We're creating a future where we use the
power of money for the benefit of people
and the planet.
Welcome
to the Wealthy Woman Book Club.
Dare to come in, woman.
Come in.
Join us at wealthywomanbookclub.com.
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It is a journey. And,
you know, as you
as you do better financially,
there are
new things that you have to deal with.
You know? And I like to say
I don't like to say more money, more
problems. I like to say more money, better
problems, but there still are things that you
have to
deal with and things that you have to
learn
as your wealth grows. It's this,
you know, this like you said, it's like
a never ending process. It's like your physical
health. We don't just standing.
Eat healthy, and then we're done.
Exactly.
There's no quick fix. And as your finances
grow, like you said, your responsibilities
grow, people's expectations
grow, taxes grow, all of these things happen.
So you really have to expand
on so many levels, like mentally,
emotionally,
your financial education and savvy. Everything has to
expand. And guess what? If you expand too
quickly, if your finances expand too quickly, sometimes
you'll get knocked back down, which again, is
why money is cyclical
and goes up and down.
Yes.
Yeah. Well, I love your analogy that it's
like the tide.
And that's something that I especially
say to my
business owning
clients and friends,
because
we can't control other people. We can't control
when people buy from us, when they invest
in us. And I said, but,
you know,
here's the thing that I have faith in.
The
it might be low tide now, but high
tide is coming.
I might not know exactly when it's coming,
but it always comes. It always When I
look back over
you know, I've been full time in business
now for
thirteen years.
And, you know, when I look back at
that, it's like,
you know, there have been times where the
low tide has lasted longer than I would
have wanted. But I think sometimes we get
so fixated on
what's happening
this week, this month,
and we can get into that
that scarcity mentality, and our emotions can certainly
get the best of us.
Yeah. And you really can apply that to
every area of your life. So my anatomy
of abundance framework was born from this conversation
because
you have the financial conversation where there's high
tides and low tides. In your motherhood journey,
there's high tides and low tides. In your
relationship
journey, there's high tides and low tides.
But what can't have high tides and low
tides is our relationship with ourself.
Right? We need to know who we are,
stand strong in who we are,
design our life around who we are, not
who we've been told to be. Right? And
And that's the foundation of the anatomy of
abundance framework is once you know who you
are, you identify,
which is step two, the disempowering
narratives,
language, people that are in your life that
are keeping you from living as who you
are.
The third step is to practice
sacred self care is treating yourself as if
you are the divine and fiercely
guarding your energy, your mind, your body, your
soul, all of it, creating those boundaries.
And then once you've done that, that's the
foundation for which you build your life.
So then you can go to step four,
declare.
Start telling people, this is who I am.
This is who I'm not. This is what
I will and won't put up with. Right?
And make those shifts.
And then organize.
Organize your life to support
the truth of who you are and what
it is that you're looking to create. So
that could be time management. That could be
certain systems in your business or your personal
life that keep you thriving.
So organization is very important.
And then the last step of the system
is move. Move into action
with accountability,
right, loving accountability and support.
And so if you combine those six steps
of, this system and you live that it's
a living, breathing framework,
your life will completely change.
Yeah. Well, and I've got your book right
here,
Anatomy of Abundance, and we will have it
all linked up into into the show notes.
So if that,
that framework intrigues you, be sure to grab
a copy
of Katrina's book.
Yeah. What would you say to the woman
listening who is not involved in the final
family finances
at all? I've I'd I've got some friends
and acquaintances who are like, you know what?
My husband's great at this. He's an excellent
provider.
I trust him.
I don't need to worry about this. And
Yes. You know, part of me is like,
that's awesome,
but the other part of me
has sirens going off.
Right.
Well, I will say a couple of things.
I will say, first off, that there is
something
called financial abuse
that a lot of women are experiencing
and don't recognize that they're experiencing.
And that is control through finance, keeping you
in the dark. Like, that can look a
lot of ways. I'm not going to go
down the rabbit hole of that. But look
up financial abuse and see if you identify
with any of those telltale signs.
The second part of that is
I don't want to ever
invite people into scarcity.
Right? So when we say
that it's a really great idea to be
involved in finance and and to, you know,
include yourself in financial
conversations with your household.
It's not from a place of scarcity.
It's from a place of abundance.
It's abundance in the sense that no matter
what happens
with our finances, our relationship,
whatever,
I'm gonna be okay. And what that does
is it creates confidence.
So I think that that is a factor
knowing and being able to step in in
the event
that you needed to, not because he died
like mine, but maybe your husband gets sick
or or your partner, your wife gets sick,
right, or anything.
And knowing where things are, something as simple
as knowing where the spreadsheet and all the
information is.
But the second part of that
is just for your own enrichment.
There is something that happens within you when
you start to empower yourself financially. And even
if you don't utilize it, just understanding and
being able to be a part of these
conversations.
And so I'm constantly finding new ways to
challenge myself.
I've actually stepped back from the activity, the
active portion
of my financial business, and I've allowed my
team to take that over
because I wanted to make a pivot and
start learning about real estate investing. Right? It's
like another level of financial security and wealth
building and legacy.
And so that's been so fun for me.
It's actually a very new pivot just from
last year November.
And, I've always done residential investing, but I've
never done, like, commercial or any of that
kind of stuff. And it's it's created this
new, like,
oh, pep in my step. So if nothing
else,
that's a great reason for you to start
involving yourself in financial conversations and just becoming
more,
savvy in the language because it is a
language.
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And, you know, that's
one of the reasons why
I started the Wealthy Woman Book Club is
so that women would have a safe place
to
learn about money and have these discussions
where they knew, you know, they they weren't
gonna be shamed for their lack of knowledge.
There's there's no stupid questions.
And it's just been
so wonderful to see
the women,
you know, not just
taking advice from me, but taking advice from
each other, learning from each other, connecting with
each other.
It's it's just been such a beautiful thing
to see. I think the best way to
learn is just be around a bunch of
very, very smart people.
And so the space you've created is wonderful
because as they're learning, you're learning. You're gonna
have people from with different levels of competency
in there.
And, I think that's amazing. That's what we
need. That's how we learn as women,
truly.
Yeah.
Well and I I tell people, I'm like,
I'm I'm not just the leader of this
group. I'm I'm a member.
Yeah. You know? I I share my ups
and downs. Like, they know more about my
finances
than anybody else does out outside of my
immediate household. You know? Like, we are very
financially transparent with each other, and, you know,
it's just like I'm like, I'm right here
in the trenches with you guys. It's like,
yes. I might have a level of success
here, here, and here, but I I still
struggle with things. And,
I think that's also refreshing for them to
know, like, you know
Yeah. It's not like you get to this
level and everything is perfect and you you've
got it all figured out. That's that's not
how it works.
Yeah. You never really fully arrive. And we
see this all the time with people who
build up, you know, ridiculous amounts of wealth
and then lose it all. Like, things happen.
Mhmm. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, and speaking of collaboration, one of
the things I admire about you is that
you are a collaborator.
I love how you bring a diverse
group of women leaders together to co facilitate
your retreats. And
even in the writing of your book, you
brought together
Yeah. Experts to write the book. So tell
us about that. How did you,
you know, how did you get into this
collaborative approach versus, hey. It's just me, the
expert, telling you what to do?
Yeah. I have a a very
amazing gift of attracting wonderful,
intelligent,
savvy, successful people. That's, like, the bottom line.
They're just drawn to me. Right? And,
with that, as I build relationships,
I just am also very good at identifying,
like, oh, here's the gap for this person.
They need to meet this person. And I
used to do a lot of, like, one
on one connecting
all the time, which, by the way, creates
a lot of credibility
in your market and makes you a sought
after leader. So that's just a little side
tip.
But I wanted to do bigger projects, and
quite honestly, I just started to feel lonely
doing everything by myself. I'm like, you know,
this would be so much more fun if
I brought in two or three people to
help collaborate on this. And I have a
very deep commitment also to diversity, not just
diversity and culture,
but diversity and voice.
Right? And so with a book like Anatomy
of Abundance, yes, it's my framework,
but let's get someone who's very, like, analytical
and a type and hear their perspective and
their statistics.
And let's get someone who's super spiritual and
woo woo and hear theirs their perspectives.
Right? And so and everything in between. So
the more voices that you have contributing to
a concept or a framework
or a retreat,
the more
enriching it is. And it's gonna connect with
everyone just like we all learn differently,
and we experience things differently. So it gives
an opportunity for no matter who you are
and what your background, you're gonna have somebody
within that project
that you connect with and go, okay. If
they can do it, I can do it.
Yeah.
I love that.
Katrina,
thank you so much for being here and
sharing your story. It has been an honor
to talk with you about
money
and
your
your money story and your work with women.
What is the best place for people to
connect with you?
Very easy to find. I'm patrino wisdom everywhere.
Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn are where I hang out
the most,
but I also have a lot of content
if you just wanna kinda get to know
me better on YouTube as well.
Or you can go to my website, patrinawisdom.com,
and
see all the things.
Yes.
And we will have all of the links
in the show notes as well.
Thank you so much. My friends, this is
where I leave you for today. If you
enjoyed this conversation,
please leave us a review because it helps
others to find the Money is Emotional podcast.
And if you're not a subscriber yet, what
are you waiting for? Hit the subscribe button,
and you'll be notified as soon as a
new episode drops.
My free Financial Dignity community
is now open. This is the place to
be if you want a safe and supportive
space to talk about money and mindset
with others who are on the same journey.
So see the link in the show notes
to join us now.
Until next time, this is Christine Lukin reminding
you that you are good enough, you are
smart enough, and,
gosh darn it, people love you, including me.
Until next time. Bye bye.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Money is
Emotional podcast.
To get in touch,
visit our website
at www.christinelucan.com,
or drop us a line at hello@christinelucan.com.
And don't forget to click the follow button
to be notified when new episodes become available.
The information covered and posted
represents the views and opinions of the guest
and does not necessarily represent the views or
opinions of Christine Newton.
The content has been made available for informational
and educational purposes only. The content is not
intended to be a substitute for professional
investing or tax advice. Always seek the advice
of your advisor,
tax professional,
or other qualified financial professional with any questions
you may have regarding your personal finances.