What can flower people learn from tree collectors?
For Amy Stewart, whose 2007
book flower
confidential ignited the spark of the
Movement.
The tree world is filled with people who
are as equally fascinating and inspiring
as the flower world contains
first Amy and I discuss her new book,
it's 50 vi of remarkable people whose lives
have been transformed by their passion for trees,
as well as her approach to writing and
illustrating humans and their beloved specimens.
The thing I got from a lot of
these collectors was this endless sense of learning
and curiosity.
You know, it's sort of boundless,
and and and I think for a lot
of flower farmers, there's this sense of seeking
in the sense of maybe there's something else
I can do. Maybe there's something else I
can find. 1 of the collectors in the
books said, I know 90 year old tree
collectors. And honestly, I think that's I think
that's why they're 90. Like, I think that's
why they're still going.
Hello again, and welcome back to the Slow
flowers podcast with Deborah Printing. This is episode
671.
This is the weekly podcast about slow flowers
and the people who grow and design with
them. It's all about making a conscious choice,
and I invite you to join the conversation,
and the creative community as we discuss the
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on a safe, seasonal and local supply of
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This show is brought to you by slow
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It's the conscious choice for buying and sending
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And thank you to the Gardener workshop, which
offers a full curriculum of online education.
For flower farmers and farmer flo.
Online education is more important than ever, and
you'll want to check out the course offerings
at the Gardeners work workshop dot com.
I'm thrilled today to share my recent conversation
with Amy Stewart
The New York Times best selling author of
the tree collectors, the drunken bot, wicked plants,
and several other popular non titles about the
natural world,
Amy is best known in the slow flowers
community for writing flower
confidential. The good the bad and the beautiful
in the business of flower which first dropped
into our lives in 2007.
Amy wrote the forward to my 2012 book
that launched S flowers movement, the 50 mob
okay. And I'm honored to call her a
dear friend. Amy has also written several novels
in her beloved cop sister series, the which
are based on the true story of 1
of America's first female, deputy sheriff and her
2 rem sisters.
There's 7 books in the series and you'll
want to read them all.
Her books have sold over a million copies
worldwide and have been translated into 18 languages.
Amy lives in Portland Oregon with her husband
Scott Brown, a rare book dealer who can
usually be found at his shop downtown brown
books.
Today, you'll learn about the tree collectors, and
Amy and I discussed connections between the tree
community and the floral community.
When she discovered the universe of tree collectors,
Amy expected to meet h cultural fan driven,
to plant every species of oak or maple.
But she also discovered that the urge to
collect trees springs from something deeper and more
profound, a longing for community, a vision for
the future or a path to healing and
reconciliation
In this slightly humorous informative, quite po at
volume, Amy shares captivating stories of people who
spend their lives in pursuit of rare and
wonderful trees.
And are transformed in the process.
I'm delighted that Amy has populated her lively
tree comp with her own hand drawn watercolor
portraits
of the extraordinary people and their trees inter
with side trips to investigate famous tree collections,
arbor burial gloss, and even tips for unauthorized
forestry street. This book is a stunning tribute
to a devoted group of nature lovers making
their lives and the world, more beautiful, 1
tree at a time
Let's jump right in and get started and
welcome Amy Stewart.
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Slow flower
show with Debra Printing.
I'm so thrilled today to welcome a return
guest.
Amy Stewart, Many of you recall that Amy
spent a guess on this podcast before.
She's also kind of the godmother of, the
plural industry that we know
as we know it in the sunflower flowers
world because she's the author of flower
confidential, hard to believe. So I'm gonna welcome,
Amy to join us. We're going to talk
about her new project.
Hello, Amy.
Hello.
Good to see you. So good to see
you. Thanks so much for doing this. I
know some people might say, okay, Amy. You
wrote a book
called.
The tree collectors. And
what does I have to do with flowers.
But, you know, I'm all about h topics,
and I think that's our roots that inform
everything you and I do and many of
the, you know, practitioners in the sunflower flowers
world. So
There's a lot to learn here. There is.
And and I should say there is a
Camel camilla collector, and
I actually just heard from the international Lilac
society who's very excited about the... So, you
know, trees and flowers, it does happen. And
also, I'll just tell you, flower confidential is
actually 2007.
Not 17.
Oh, I'll correct that. Yes. It's been a
ridiculously long time. You know what? I had
2017 in my mind because that's when we
had the first slow flower summit. Yeah. When
you... And I cooked up the whole idea
of celebrating the 10 year anniversary of flower
confidential. Right?
Alright. No.
I'm corrected. I said Time flies. Time flies
is alright. But, you know, that... You... The
staying power of flower confidential is consistently
you know, referred to as kind of the
pivot point, the turning point for people's awareness
about
what's going on behind behind all these flowers
that we're consuming. You know, we we we
kinda be politely just assume they were local.
We blindly assumed they were grown down the
street. Or in our own region, and you
peel back the curtain
and showed people a different story.
And, you know, I'd never could have imagined
that it would actually impact anyone's life. Like,
I definitely...
I didn't have that ambition. It was more...
I saw it as more of sort of
a g whiz kinda of booked like, oh,
who new.
And even when I started working on writing
it, the environmental
issues weren't
forefront in my mind,
but they grew. Like, as I was working
on the book, but also culturally for all
of us. We were starting to talk... It's
weird to think that there was a time
when we weren't talking about this stuff very
much, but that was true in, like, 2003
2004
when I was just starting.
But it really surprised me when people started
coming out to me at vince and saying
things like, I dropped out of college and
rented an acre of land and now... I'm
an organic flower farmer, and I'm like, oh,
please don't tell your mother that I'm responsible
for this. Like, I'm gonna get calls.
My gosh. It's so true. And, you know,
the reason that you didn't quite... You weren't,
like, treating this as a...
I don't know social engineering experiment experiment. You
were just, like typical Amy curious,
highly curious.
About a topic and you took a deep
dive.
And, I guess, that's just how you operate
as a as a writer. You you write
to learn. Right? Sure. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I
realized there's this thing that I don't know.
And then III start thinking about all the
things I don't know about it.
And then, you know, at some point, like,
often within the next few hours, I think,
well someone's write a book about this. So
I'm just gonna get this out from the
library, and then I'll know, and then I
find out no one's written a book about
it, and then I'm off to the races.
So that was certainly what flower confidential was
all about. Like, I can't believe no one's
written this book on it. Right. Right. Yeah.
I mean, you've done this with all kinds
of Flo and fauna in,
the natural world.
And now you've done it with trees.
So
we're gonna talk about the tree collectors.
Amy, you have a little
trailer that you recorded that I just... Pulled
up from Youtube. I think I'm show it
and That'll kind of... It's just a few
minutes that'll give us an introduction, and then
we'll dive into our conversation. So let's get
that going here. Pulled Breakout. Tales of arbor
burial
obsession.
I wrote and illustrated this book with portraits
of the people and their trees.
The idea for this book came to me
about 10 years ago when I met a
guy who told me that he collected trees.
And I said, wow, trees are really kind
of a weird thing to collect because, like,
they're really big and hard to move. So
I don't know. How does this even work?
And he told me that he lines his
trees up like books on a books shelf.
And that his goal is to collect 1
of every different kind of tree that grows
in his climate,
until he runs out of space, which, of
course, he did because all tree collectors run
out of space.
So I met a few more tree collectors
over the years and what really surprised me
was that everybody had a really different story
about what they collected and why
and how they're lives had been transformed
by their relationship with trees.
I met people who plant trees to
honor their loved ones,
or to heal the wound to the past
or build community
or say a habitat
or even to make an art project
And you don't always need a lot of
land to collect trees. Some of the people
in this book collects pine cones or leaves
or seeds
or they graft 40 different fruits onto just
1 tree or plant a tiny forest in
an ordinary sized backyard.
Some people are collectors in the sense that
they're catalog
rare or historic trees in their community.
And you know, even this act of catalog
of noting
is a form of collecting
because it makes sure that they won't be
lost or forgotten.
I'm really honored to be able to pay
tribute to these people
and to the power that trees have in
all of our lives.
I thought these were really moving and inspiring
stories
that made me look at trees in a
new way and I hope they'll do the
same for you. Thank you.
Okay. That was a great introduction.
Amy, that was really fun.
I... What I'd love the most is that
picture of you at the bottom of a
tree staring up.
Like in awe, and this is just 1
moment that you must have experienced over the
course of many, many months working on this
book.
Yeah. For sure. Love it.
50 vi of remarkable people whose lives have
been transformed by their obsessed obsessive passion for
trees.
Written and
illustrated by Amy Stewart. So,
first of all, I guess, what's came first?
The idea of wanting to illustrate these people
or just chased down their stories Like, how
did you wrap your arms around this. Like,
I meant imagine you're in the Redwood forest.
You're trying to get your arms around the
base of a tree. It it's a big
it's it's a big topic to to buy
off.
It is. And, you know, this is 1
of many ideas. Had sort of been kicking
around for a long time. I mean, I
think if you asked most writers,
they have a whole bunch of book ideas
that are just sitting in a drawer that
didn't didn't never quite launch that So this
is 1 of them. And, what happened is
that I'd always kinda of been an oil
painter, but oil paintings don't make for good
book illustrations.
But more recently, I had gotten into working
on paper more, watercolor and ink and gouache,
and other things that are classic
illustrator mediums.
So all the people, like, including my agent,
you know, who had said, why don't you
illustrate your own books and I was always
like, you know nothing about art? If you
think I can do that.
But it started to become more possible because
I just learned those skills.
So that made me think in terms of,
well, if I was gonna do it, illustrated
bug. What would it what would that be?
And I went through my file of old
book ideas, and some of them seem to
sort of have more potential show somehow.
If you added art, like, something about making
it a little more gifting
and and maybe gave it a little bit
more breathing space
and
I don't know. Just sort of injected some
air into the idea in a in a
way that's kinda hard to describe.
But, yeah. So I'm going through all these
ideas. And my husband who's a rare book
dealer and very interested in all kinds of
collecting and in all kinds of collectors. He
kept saying, What about tree collectors? Why why
isn't that 1 on the list? And every
time it fell off the list, he would
bring it up again.
And
I am Scott.
Thank you, Scott. But and, yeah, But it
led me to kinda reach back out to
the people I'd met over the years who
had told me they were tree collectors and
I was able to locate them all, even
though I'm terrible at remembering people's names, I
got back to all of them. And it
just started to come together, like, oh, I
maybe there is a book in this. Yeah.
I love it.
It's no small feet because it is an
international global.
I think
population of people featured.
I don't know. We must have been chatting
or something when you said that there were
people who you had to interview or maybe
I read it in your in your acknowledgement.
There were people who did not share your
language and you had to use translators.
Yeah. That's wild. But we... Believe it or
not, those were some of my favorite interviews.
What I would do is I would find
an interpreter,
just, you know, online, I would just track
somebody down.
And then I would explain the book to
them and explain the point of the interview.
And a lot of times, these are people
who do business
translation. Right? Why I corporate whatever.
And so I'm explaining the project, and I
give them a list of questions.
Which is kind of a bummer because I
like my interviews to be a conversation where
I don't have a list of questions. But
what choice did I have, So I would
give them my list of questions. And then
I would say, you're gonna conduct the whole
interview. Like, don't really stop... Don't stop and
translate everything for me because it's gonna become
clunky and awkward gonna take 4 hours. So
we're gonna be on Zoom the 3 of
us.
I'll just be sitting there in case you
have questions, you can turn to me and
ask me. But otherwise, you too have this
conversation, and I gave them some pointers about,
feel free to dig in more,
you know
add your own questions. Put down the rabbit
hole on a specific answer. Right. Right. And
I sort of explained in particular, these are
areas that I wanna get more specific in.
So especially if they go in in these
areas.
But they were so much fun for me
because I'm just sitting there on Zoom, watching
2 people speak Jeff knees to each other
or speak portuguese
or polish to 1 another. Right They're they're
having so much fun.
Like, they're getting really into it, and I
just felt
And was so moving to just sort of
realize like, here's this person that I'm never
gonna meet. They're halfway around the world,
but they share these interests. They share these
passions. They're willing to be open and express
themselves. And I was so glad they were
doing it in their own language, so it's
not a struggle. Right. And then I would
send the Zoom video to the interpreter
and and ask them to not transcribe it
word for word, But, to give me the
meaningful bits, and then I come back to
them and say, I need a little bit
more on this section or I need a
word for word translate.
Wow When gonna put it in quotes, and
we would work back and things like that.
Wow. It's like we you deployed these deputy
writers or, you, or, you know, in interviewers
too Right. Collect these stories. Yeah. You're in
your own... You're a collector in and of
yourself. I love that. Well, I have to...
I I have to say, thinking back to
the first conversation, we had about this book.
You emailed me and said you were gonna
start working on this.
Kinda during Covid, I believe. I
you were looking... And, Amy, I have learned
so much from you about your intentional for
representation and inclusion, and
bringing everyone into the world of florida culture
or flu culture, but you were really specific
to say, I, you know, this is not
gonna be
is there my where it's not yours old
White guys book. You know? And that's just
coming out of where culture sometimes
the perception is that's who gets to talk
about.
And you were really able to find,
people in communities that have never... Been able
been asked about their tree collections or
I'd love that. As maybe you can talk
about some that are really special to you
that really
I don't know, changed your perception of who
is a tree collector. Yeah. Well, this was
really important to me.
In part because...
Anytime you talk about collectors in any field.
It does tend to be wealthier people. It
tends to be more white people. It tends
to be more North Americans and Europeans.
And it tends to be more men.
So that's just the demographic, whether you're collecting
cars or you're collecting books or you're collecting
trees, Yeah. Right. Especially trees because they require
land and who has land and who doesn't
have land. Right?
So going in...
This is, I think so important when we
think about inclusion is
it's not so much about... This is my
table. And I need more of you to
come sit at my. I wanna check the
boxes kind of thing. Right Yeah. It's it's
about...
My table isn't working,
like, we need a different table.
And so my premise of, I'm gonna write
a book about collectors
couldn't be. It's only people who have big
plots of land. It had to be what
are other ways of seeing collecting. And as
soon as you do that, the population changes
radically.
Right? So it was about me asking a
different... Deciding that I was gonna ask a
different question. But then, yeah, also being super
deliberate. Like, everyone I talked to. I said
the same thing. I said I'm looking for
more women. I'm looking for more people who
aren't in North America or Europe.
I'm looking for people who aren't white.
I'm looking for people who aren't rich. And
a lot of collectors were sort of stumped,
Like, that, you know, they kinda couldn't come
up with a lot of folks. So I
did do a lot of digging on my
own. I went on to Youtube and Tiktok
to look for people who were
obsessed with trees.
But but, I love it. But had never
joined a tree collecting society, and never will
join 1. Right?
So, yeah. I went to all these other
places. To try to track these folks down.
But, you know, I found people who collect,
well, like I said in a video, like,
you can collect part of a tree. You
can collect pine cones,
there's a whole thing about collecting wood samples.
Yes. That's right. That doesn't a crazy chapter.
Yeah. There's an international wood collecting society
and they have a standard size for their
wood samples, which is about the size of
an iphone
that,
makes them easier to sort and keep keeping
files. Like, yeah. Yeah.
So there's that. But then there's also people
who collect trees in the sense of go
picking up acorns in your neighborhood and grow
them in pots on your patio
until they get too good for the pot,
and then you can either plant them somewhere
or toss them out and start more, but,
like, you know, there's a million ways to
to do this that don't have to involve
a lot of land. Yeah. Well, you kind
of organize the... I love the way you
organize the
table contents
by the role that the individual how you
saw their role as a healer, and colleges,
and artist,
curator,
educator, community builder,
ent,
seeker,
preservation, and visionary. So you're kind of saying,
okay. What's their relationship with their own world,
Right. And how do trees fit into that.
I thought it was a good way to
organize it because
that alone breaks up this sort of curated,
you know, collection in an arbor, which is
where we would start normally. Right? Right.
Yeah. It's... It's hard putting human beings into
categories.
So,
I I resisted it a little bit because
there is definitely crossover between those categories.
But I think it does send a message.
And this was the big surprise for me
working on this book. Honestly, at the beginning
of it, I thought I was gonna be
sucking to like, plant geek who geek out
about their geek plants.
And I wasn't expecting the level of personal
stories that I was getting. Yeah. I wasn't
expecting... You know, there's a there's a a
woman Marie Bo,
she's
in England. And she collects maple trees. And
and her big thing when she started talking
to me. I mean I just found her
through the Maple society, she was... She responded
to my, you know, saying, I'm looking for
women and a bunch of people were like,
I'm a woman talk to me. So very
love. That's how I found her, but then
she starts talking to me about what these
trees mean to her, and a big piece
of it is that she wasn't able to
have kids,
and it... That was really hard for her.
That really hurt
and that the maple trees have filled this,
hole in her life that she felt was
left behind by not being able to become
a mother
And the thing she said that just knocked
my socks off
was she... The the thing in Maple trees
is it's pretty easy to come up with
a new variety. You know, I mean, a
seed drops and it starts growing, and it
could be an interesting new variety. It's not
hard to do with Maple.
So,
she's really hoping that she's going to get
an offspring from her trees that's worth cultivating,
and and actually sort of introducing and naming.
And she said I wasn't able to give
a name to a baby, and I would
like to give a name to a tree.
And It just erased cry. Like, I can't
tell you how often and I cried listening
to these stories. I mean, it's just
people
something that I think, you know, I mean,
you've got a lot of people listening to
this podcast to or flower farmers. And, you
know, what I realized is you spend a
lifetime that putting down roots, like literally putting
roots into the ground,
and it does transform your life. Yeah. The
thing you have at the end of that,
there's a lot of 70 and 80 year
old tree collectors in this book. And the
thing you have at the end of that
is this life well lived and this life
that is so... Because intertwined. I mean, the
roots analogy is just so useful here, but
this life that is so intertwined with other
people
who are literally connected with you through these
plants.
And it doesn't matter if there oak trees
that are gonna out live you or if
they're, you know, Sunflower in a in a
field,
you have that to show for yourself in.
Show for what your life has meant. And
it honestly made me sort of question my
life choices.
I was gonna, I was kinda like, why
don't I have
a miniature forest that I can point to.
And so
here are where my people are. Here's where
my values and my priorities are. Here's what
my life has met and it is tangible,
and it's in the ground right here. Well,
because I know you live in a,
priorities townhouse, Condo.
Maybe you have some house punch on your
windows sill. But your your collection is in
the isn't any stories, Amy. And in this
art.
I I just wanna say that Marie bo
store you called at the mother of trees.
So that's so great.
I do remember my 1 little, like, a
personal connection to this book is during Covid,
I was on a
special shopping
expedition,
I don't know how I got per permitted
to do this, but to,
go to the nursery
in port townsend in Washington owned by, Sue
mill and Kelly Dod. Yeah. And,
they,
You had just told me about this book,
and so I took a photo of them
and texted it you and I'm like, here's
a couple and, you know, Sue is of
1 of the...
Amazing plant collectors of the world, and
their far... Their nurseries called Far reaches farm.
And so Lo behold, they showed up in
the book, And I, are they the only
couple. You don't have a lot of,
ts. Pears. Right? They're the only couple. I
mean, there there are definitely 3 collectors in
the book. Who are married and their spouses
involved
to a greater or lesser extent. Yeah. But,
yeah. When I started talking to them, who
I realized quickly, I couldn't
focus on 1 or the other because they...
So for people who don't know, they they...
Fell in love on basically a tree collecting
or a plant collecting
expedition. Right. It's is a great story. It
is a great story. And it... So in
the book, it's the only time that I
did this in the whole book. But their
their story of how they met is exactly
like those stories and when Harry met Sally
where the old couples were talking about how
it was Love at first sight. Literally, that's
how it broke down. And I'm like, I'm
gonna write this out, like a screen play,
So that everyone can hear them in their
voices, the way they... Yeah. So I love
worth telling their sweet story of falling in
love a while plant collecting.
I love it. Yeah. That's great.
The... I was going to show my pages
from the readers copy, but they're in black
and white. So I think I'm ask you
to show us some of your,
stack of paintings Yeah or illustrations rather. Well,
you said
paper medium, but what did you use
pencil and watercolor, how did you illustrate these?
I decided to after much
experimentation. I decided to use watercolor
and water soluble colored pencils.
Okay. And and the reason is it's a
for anyone out there who's an artist, you
probably know 2 things that are very challenging
to draw are people and trees.
You'll you'll always hear artists talking about how
they're intimidated by people, especially if you have
to get their likeness
accurately. It can't be... Out human being for
sure. But trees are also weirdly tricky because
they're generally all 1 color, but you have
to get the shading and make it seats.
And and there are artists who kind of
avoid trees for that reason. And I thought
that that the watercolor
and these colored pencils would give up, kind
of a softness and at humanity
to the people, because I didn't want them
to look like car signatures or cartoons,
but also, they very much look can draw
Right? Like, this is something that I want
people to flip through this booking and sort
of go, like, oh, I can draw that.
Like, in sort of in some theoretical way.
Like, this is they're accessible. They're not, like,
they're accessible.
Precise botanical illustrations even. Right? Exactly. There they
should look like I was sitting there in
my sketchbook even though, I was working from
photos a lot because people are all over
the world and it was Covid. So, you
know, But I'm just... I'll I'll show the...
I'll show just the the book,
you can see that for every 1 of
these I did at.
Illustration of the person and then,
an illustration of their garden.
So I had that in every case that
was sort of my That's a hunch... That's
a hundred illustrations right there, and then use
all this bonus
content, which I really appreciated.
Where... And I'm sure that, like, you've got
this 1 called this as a society for
every tree,
and you have a little drawing of a
European box wood and Top,
for that society and a Emilia for that
society. So altogether, you had hundreds of illustrations
in this book. There were there were over
300
Jpeg, but I had to upload for this.
So... That's amazing. Yeah. Oh, my goodness.
Yeah. But I feel like the
the
how do you make a tree look real?
You're not trying to do a scientific drawing.
You're trying to Right. Capture a moment in
time and the person who loves that tree.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was the challenge. So
do you wanna see some of my just...
You posted them on your social media a
couple, like, maybe last week, and I was
like, I wanted to show that on our
interview. Yeah. Sure. I'm just gonna... A mother
load of drawings.
I know. This is only a small portion.
I just reached in and grabbed the top
of the stack, but I'll just show you
that it's sometimes they were just sort of
abstract
paintings of, like, looking up at trees. That's
wonderful. For like section openers. And the reason
I decided to be looking up at trees
is that that's how we humans see them.
You know I wanna
I wanted to imply a human viewer with
and the scale of,
we're so minis minuscule compared to the grand
Right.
Like... So this is Vivian kaye who lives
in San Jose. And and she and I
just hit it off so much. So she
grows per simmons.
In her garden. And so for her, rather
than do another tree I just did the
pre simmons because she's sort of all about
the.
Those are few. For her, this is really
it's it's become something that's really about connecting
with her Korean
family,
her her her auntie and grandma and mom
and all of that generation. She mails them
boxes of
cement, which is such a part of their
history and their culture and their heritage and
such a treat in Korean culture. And she's
like, you know, this is kinda how I
can stay connected with them. Like, it's super
hard with your you know, with your grandparents
and with your elders,
especially a family of of immigrants, Like, it
can be sort of tough through the generations.
Yeah. But we we understand this about each
other. The language of food. I love it.
This is how we connect. Yeah. That's beautiful.
That's really vivid too. Like, not just a
green book. There's color coming out of blooms
and fruit and obviously place. So...
Right. It's But you haven't talked about before
about how many colors of green you have
in your on on your painters ballot. Right?
That's right. That's right. Yeah. I want. That
that was actually an issue. Like I really
was looking for, you know, how do I
inject color was really a thing. So for
instance,
1 of my... Every time I show you
1 of these, I'm gonna say, like, this
was really my favorite person. And and I
I really mean it. It's know this is
very sincere.
But,
doctor Ali Hu
in, in Ethiopia,
has been working, and and this is an
example of really trying to say what else
can a collection be? Because I wanted someone
that was somewhere in Africa? Like, how do
I pull that off?
And, what he's doing is he's working on
the
church for of ethiopia.
So in Ethiopia,
almost all the trees are gone
because of livestock.
So the the landscape tape was entirely denoted
except that the the churches
have a little wall around them, and there's
this tradition in the ethiopian church that when
you walk in you're entering the garden of
Eden. So there's these stone walls that basically
keep the livestock out, so that trees can
grow,
And these are the only trees left.
And so he realized if we're gonna have
any trees at all in Ethiopia, I have
to work with the,
the pastors, the the priests,
and
they have to come up with the solution.
So they did the... They came up with
these ideas about we're gonna spans, the... We're
we're gonna have a little wall around the
edge,
and we're gonna build it out of stone
that we're gonna pull out of the farmers
fields, which they will appreciate,
and we're gonna make it not about excluding
people, but we're gonna make it about, you
know, inviting people in and expanding this circle.
And so for this 1, I drew just
looking down at the landscape from above. Wow.
Like, a, like, a drone photo of the
top of the circle, that is so beautiful.
And just the symbolism of what that... How
that's inviting people in.
Right. So the others like this care about,
let's let's save these trays. Right. And the
fact that he's done, off, off the top
of my head, I'm forgetting, but, you know,
It's a small number of of, he's... He
works for a non nonprofit. He's a bot,
and he works for a nonprofit, and there's
sort of a small number of churches that
he's done so far because it's sort of
1 at a time.
And I asked him how many they are
and he said 30000
In the country of Ethiopia. Yeah. Wow. And
he's done, you know,
hundreds.
Wow. But he's doing moving. Yeah. Right? That
does not put him off. That does not
tell him this is impossible. He's is like,
he was like this was all 1 big
forest before, and it can be 1 big
forest again. And
I love that story. You have a few
quasi celebrities.
In the book, I guess 1 can't write
about trees without finding a few rockstar collectors
or
quirky collectors who are known
Do you wanna share any of those stories?
Yeah. You know, I...
So well, let me tell you about 1
that got away first of all. I'll tell
you 1 of my biggest regrets, and I
hope that by talking about this, maybe I'm
gonna find another collector who does this. But,
I'll There are a few tree collectors out
there who are interested in growing
wood
and tone wood is trees that are used
to make musical instruments.
Oh, wow. Yes. Oh, sorry.
Right.
And because the wood has to have a
very particular quality to have the resonance that
you need.
And, you might have... I don't know if
you, if you got this far, but,
Diane,
Diane Allen Jones,
is in New Orleans, and she's a landscape.
I'm sorry. Diane Jones Allen is in New
Orleans, and she's a landscape architect.
And she once did a project in New
Orleans at Lily Armstrong Plaza where she got
to put in
african trees that were used to make musical
instruments in that plaza. Oh wow. But she
also has her own personal tree collection that
I was talking about So anyway, among celebrity
tree collectors, I did have a musician
who is into tone wood. So but they
dropped out of the process. They were, you
know, too busy couldn't do it whatever. So
I was So putting the word out to
the tone with collectors.
Get in touch for the book number 2.
Right. But
but I was so delighted to find out
about Edward Everett Horton.
Okay. So yes. So so the... And and
also, there are not many people in this
book who are who are not alive. Like,
I really wanted this to be a book
of living people. Not... People who lived 200
years ago. But, there are a few people
who are no longer with us who are
in there, and that includes him. And so
he was an actor who acted with Fred
air, people He was in the gay divorce.
I mean, if you're into the golden age
of Hollywood Cinema, you know who Edward Everett
Horton was.
And, so he lived down in Southern California,
and he was pretty successful for his day,
pretty well known, smaller parts, but character actor.
And he
was a tree collector.
And he was very funny in the press.
So he would do these interviews
and talk about
you know, talk about his obsession with trees,
and there's a story about him at 1
point that he was late showing up to
the studio for a film,
and he said it's because he was up
all night with a sick tree.
You must have just felt like you hit
gold when you find his interview. Feel like
I did gold.
Yes. And it's a thing. I I knew
it.
Right. Right. So so funny and interesting and
delightful, and he does have archives. Again, like,
it was hard to travel to all this
stuff, but I found someone in Wyoming who
could go into his archives funny for me
at the university there and dig through him
to see, you know, what can find out
about his connection with with trees. Oh my
gosh. I love that story.
That is such a great story. And, you
know, there's... The... This the 3... The way
you have that the book organized is so
interesting because you see the portrait
and you read the person's story, and then
you see maybe a tree from their garden,
and
it that you could pick this up and
just, you know, read... As almost like a
daily meditation, You can almost get through the
whole year,
reading 1 tree story
a week
right. Maybe you wanna read faster. I mean,
I I have just like... I like the
idea that there's
a lot of
education in this. A lot of things I
did not know, like,
collective nouns for trays,
what you call a collection of birch,
a
Bet you lead him. Is that what how
you saying? Right? Yeah. Or pane for for
pine trees or que Ke for oak... Trees.
I know. I love these words.
I know you do. And I think that's
so fabulous that you have that. Okay. What
is this 1? Joey Santo
tips, for unauthorized forestry.
Okay. There's gotta be a story here. He's
1 of my fit. Well, here Go again.
He's 1 of my favorite people on the
book.
Go to his Youtube channel, which is called,
Crying pays, but Doesn't.
Okay. It's great. Yes. And and he works
under and and and and he'll be Tony
Santo. So he's sort of... He's created a
little bit of a character for himself. Well,
he's from Chicago. So he... But he... So...
But he's got this kind of,
he's got this sort of Chicago Gangster
persona when he's talking about now. K. But
his Youtube channel is unbelievable, So he is
someone that I found through Youtube, basically. And
he really knows his stuff. But 1 of
the things he did several years ago was
he was living in Oakland,
and there was a,
Macarthur Parkway in Oakland was... Meant to be
landscape
with trees down this very wide median strip,
but they did a terrible job, the city
and the trees died,
And so he just took it over and
started planting trees. So it's like Gorilla gardening
only with trees. Yeah. Yeah. And
and he has. So yeah it is crazy.
And they're still there. Like, again, talking about
a legacy, you know, you really realize when
you plan a tree
you are leaving a legacy. I mean, if
the tree survives, it almost certainly will will
out live you. So, yeah, he has all
these suggestions for how to do it. If
you're gonna... Sneak a tree into
a public space where you're not invited to
do so. Like, he suggests make sure the
tree is kind of big enough,
that when the maintenance crews come by, it'll
look like it's always been there. If it's
too small, they might know that you're sampling.
Yeah. I love it. Right. Oh my gosh.
Return often to the scene of the crime
to pull weeds. 1 of his 1 his
rules.
Right. Oh my gosh. I love it.
Their
their the idea of people
cherish or honoring their heritage.
Mh through their trees is definitely
a big part of this book because, you,
as you said, you're you're
coax out their stories. But the 1 that
I was really interested in I mean, we
could talk on talk about is the
Joe Hamilton, the rightful air?
Yes. Is that...
That's a really special 1.
Joe Joe Hamilton blew me away. He...
And I... And I'll say, of of of
all the interviews I did, you know, Every
recorded them as we do when we do
interviews on on Zoom or whatever. And that
was the 1... Like, I had to play
it over again for my husband that night.
For him to understand how powerful this story
was. So this... The Joe's story really gets
most closely at the question of who has
land and why?
In the south,
there's there's this issue and it's called Heirs
property. And so what it is is it's
black families who, have land
that maybe came into their possession immediately following
the civil war.
I'm not really an expert on exactly
how things washed out in the immediate aftermath
of the civil war, but I had a
general impression
that some farms got split up. And in
some cases,
people who had worked on the farms as
enslaved people
ended up getting land as things were sort
of dis band. Yeah. That may not be
the most air night way of explaining it,
but it happened. Yeah. Oh so that... So
that land or land that's bought acquired through
other means. Whatever it is,
there are... There's a real issue with black
families not having clear title to their land
or Right. As they weren't in the system
that paperwork wasn't right. And I mean, I'm
talking... I'm, you know, I'm talking really going
back. We're talking manual record keeping anyway. Right?
And like they're digitized.
Yeah. As you can imagine an unbelievable amount
of
discrimination and outright. Fraud that happened for families.
So the reason it's called Heirs property is
that the county tax assessor
may not be super clear on who has
title to the land, but they want their
property taxes.
So They know who they're gonna... They're gonna
hit up for that that... Right. And it
basically says it's a that property tax bill
is sent care of heirs of this property.
Right? And oh, okay. It's like, whoever you
people are, you better send us some money.
So right. So the process of clearing title
improving that you own the land you have
is a really different difficult 1, and there's
these organizations that help. So, like, in South
Carolina, it's the... They're called, I think the
center for Air property, and they just do
South Carolina, but there's other ones in other
stick because every state's is gonna be a
little different. And so in Joe's case,
his,
I think great great
maybe triple great
grandfather,
got hold of 800
acres
coming out of the civil war and being
free man.
And so Joe's family,
Joe had inherited
04:40... It was down to I think, 40
acres,
So he's trying to figure out
how to get title to the acreage he
does own because it's unclear, but also what
happened?
What happened to the rest of that land.
Right. And so he's... He went through this
incredible process searching the deeds and looking through
what whatever you can find newspaper records property
maps, all the things and what he sees
is this history of,
bad decisions, you know, he was sort of
like Look, this guy, my great grandfather, like,
he wouldn't have had a lot of business
smarts,
and and he would've have been taken advantage
of, and there were days when you you
know, you go to the bank and you
take out a loan, that's gonna be paid
back when the crop comes in, but then
the crop fails and you lose land to
the bank.
Or... Right. Just you make other bad business
deals outright theft,
of, you know,
reasons. Outright theft and fraud all kinds of
reasons. So at at the end of the
day, he couldn't get back any near the
acreage that was lost, but he could lock
down what he had.
And this land... This particular land in South
Carolina
isn't really... You're not gonna build condos on
it. Yeah. It's it's timber land. There's there's
they grow a lob lol pines in South
Carolina, they're used for telephone poles and and
furniture and other things.
So the best highest and best use of
the land. The most the most economical use
of the land is sustainable, long term timber.
And that's kinda what the Air property program
is about. It's, like, we'll teach you how
to plant for future generations. So it's nice
because it's about generational wealth. Right? And that's
the thing that
a struggle for black families, particularly in the
south. It's that lack of...
The generational wealth that comes with owning land
and having a right base like that.
So that's what he's done is he's put
it into long term timber production that will
happen long after he's gone. So, like, as
a tree collector, yeah. I mean, I sort
had to explain to him. I'm sort of,
like, look, put Your collect quote unquote, air
quotes, collection of trees is 1 tree planted
over and over again, and it's planned for
a different purpose. It's not planted to g
the ego of someone who wants to have
every species of oak in the world because
it's so cool.
It's planted to create generational wealth. Yeah. It's
your it's your inheritance. It's your legacy. It's
a legacy
that can be passed on directly from coming
right out of the civil war.
So
I hope his story. Yeah. I hope his
story empowers
other people to kind of get there.
Ownership tied up and, you know, locked down
and really
you know,
correct that
the problems of bad record keeping. And as
you said,
fraud and
you know,
outright discrimination. So That's a great story. Like,
that's sort of why I love the way
your mind works is that you're not
you're not linear. You're very certain killer and
how you
explore a topic, and that's
why this book is so rich with,
amazing amazing stories. And, yeah, the illustrations make
it killer so special, Amy.
Your art really has become a huge part
of your, life as a writer now. I
mean, that's just
if anyone has not discovered Amy subs stack,
newsletter. It's... How often do you publish that
once a week? I try to do once
a week. Yeah. Yeah. And there's lots of
amazing illustrations specifically to
go with a story. Like,
And, I'll put the link in our show
notes for people to subscribe to the free
version or you can, pay get a paid
edition. Which has, I think more content or
something like... It's our lessons. Yeah. Oh, our.
The paid lesson is straight up our tutorials.
Here's how to here's how to do this.
Here's how to do that,
So that's more for the the people who
follow me for art. You know? I mean,
it's it's it's 1 of those things that
can happen. Like, people know you for a
bunch of different reasons. Right?
We like your art, other people like you
for your writing, and I like you for
both. Oh, thanks.
So how are you gonna, launch this... The
book. The books out in a few weeks.
No
will you be, able to do some book
signings and book events and, how can people
find out what where you're going to be
when?
Yes. So I'm going on the road,
I've got a a little tour plan for
mid July going into August. So if you
go to my website, which is just amy
stewart dot com,
there'll be a list of events there, and
please come. It's so it's so important and
so helpful when people turn up, and and
bring their tree stories to share with you...
Bring you... You know what? It's so amazing.
I did AII
did a talk at a little what writer's
conference here in Oregon a couple months ago.
So way before the book is gonna come
out. But I had a copy, which I
just, you know, waved in front of the
audience just to say, hey, this is coming
People had stories about tree collections. Like this
was not an audience that was expecting to
talk about trees. That's not why they were
there. So I know. People are totally gonna
have
stories, which well, hearing... Maybe it's a fun
use of the of the pun coming out
of the wood work yeah with stories. Right.
Well, that's great.
What is the actual pub publication date? It's
July sixteenth.
Okay. Pre orders encouraged,
please.
There... It's available now, and you can get
a signed copy through Amy site, which I
believe is yes,
on your website as well.
Yeah. I partnered up with a bookstore here
in town, Broadway books, so they're taking all
the orders, and then I'll go over there
and sign copies for everybody when on in.
I love it. What is the tree that
you visit the most on your neighborhood walks
in in Portland?
Because I know you've scour them all? And
painted them all. Right. Right. Well, there are
a couple of,
enormous doug fir that I walk past, you
know, the... The footage in my little video
of me and the forest. It's... That's kind
of my daily walk. That's sort of what
it looks like for part of it. I
can cut into the to the woods there.
So, I think everybody loves a massive old
tree. Right? And there there are a couple
of really fantastic ones.
But I I live in a very tree
line neighborhood
here in Portland, and it is something that
definitely affected the the book and how I
think about. How I thought about the book,
but also how I thought about the trees
is that if you're a tree collector,
you sort of have this ac ac,
nature with trees. You're like, oh, I like
that 1. I'll take that, please. And, you
know, you can't have them because they're growing
in the sidewalk or they're growing in a
pot pod. But you're visiting them. Their friends.
Yeah. And you sort of start to have
opinions about them and pass judgment on this
1 is better than that 1. And I
think that's another interesting thing actually because a
lot of us have this generalized
love of tree... Like, trees are good. We
love trees.
But trade collectors really walk around going, oh,
no, no. No. It's...
That's the best 1 of the bunch, and
it's right there. It's kind of like what's
happening with bird bird watching, I think that
that there's just... We have this have had
this...
You know, bird book blindness. And we also
have had tree blindness where we don't really
know the species and the and the... Even
the families. And now
as we all wanna spend more time in
nature and maybe appreciate what our environmental in,
you know, world has for us. Mh We
are looking more closely. And I think the
tree collectors tales of arbor burial
obsession is going to kinda be a guide
book. To get us through some of those,
just
whoever has taken a plant Id class,
1 quarter in a community college like, I
have, that's not enough. I need more help.
Yes. For sure.
I love it. Amy, anything else you wanna
mention before we wrap up?
No. Just,
I think the thing that I would say
to your audience into the... To the flower
community is, in addition to what I already
said about kind of the way that,
what you do really
allows you to have a life
that is connected
to other people through
plants. Right.
But also, the the the thing I got
from a lot of these collectors was this
endless sense of learning and curiosity.
You know, it's sort of boundless,
and and and I think for a lot
of flower farmers, there's this sense of seeking
in this sense of, maybe there's something else
I can do. Maybe there's something else I
can find. And and I had a... 1
of the collectors in the books said, you
know, I know
I know 90 year old else tree collectors.
And honestly, I think that's I think that's
why they're 90. Like, I think that's why
why why they're still going. And and so
I I think anytime you're working with plants
and I think this is very true in
the in the floral world is it's the
key to longevity and happiness
to stay curious and and keep innovating and
keep making discoveries and there's just endless opportunities
for that. In the floral world as well
as the tree world.
I love it. I love it. Well, next
time I see you when person, maybe we'll
go for a tree walk. And you can
show me what you know. And I I
think there are so many crossover and so
much relevance
to just understanding the ecosystem that we are
all in. And
what our responsibility is to
to honor that and not
not, I don't just don't take it for
granted because it's very special, and it's it
can go go away. So it's it's worth
honoring and and educating ourselves, so we can
live a more well informed tree life. I
don't know what's the word
for a tree fan.
Is there 10I
don't know. Alright. I'm gonna cut that out.
Never mind. Maybe it would be, like, no.
Let's try to figure it out. Maybe do
would be like Den file.
Okay.
Check it out. I just made that out.
Alright.
Amy, thank you so much. This has been
so delightful. All. I've enjoyed it so much.
Congratulations.
Thanks.
Thanks so much for joining me today. Please
visit s flowers podcast dot com for episode
671
to watch the replay video of my conversation
with Amy, you'll also see her short book
trailer and some of her the original paintings
that fill the pages of the tree collectors.
I'll also share links to Amy's upcoming book
tours. She might be coming to a town
near you, as well as the link to
subscribe to her must read newsletter. It's good
to be here. A behind the scenes look
at the creative process, her book and podcast
recommendations, an occasional cocktail recipe, a work of
art, an illustrated story, and lots of rye
humor. Her newsletter makes me laugh out loud
and how often does that happen in our
everyday lives?
Our next sponsor thank you goes to historic
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The story also quoted at talented lineup of
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And the response from our social media community
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topic of local, seasonal, and sustainably grown flowers,
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As of July fourth, our post of this
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Including 87 percent non followers,
we directly engaged with 1300.0
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and 70 times and generated 40 comments.
For people who think local flowers are a
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Thank you, Amanda for reaching out to chat,
this story represents 1 great reason to join
slow flower society. When the press calls, we
love to highlight our members.
Ps. If you miss the story, check out
our show notes for the link in today's
episode.
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The content and opinions expressed here are either
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Next week, you're invited to join me the
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