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This episode is brought to you by the

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Marine Corps Association and Foundation.

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The Marine Corps wants marines at all levels

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to be able to make sound and timely

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decisions,

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and marines can hone their decision making capabilities

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by being put into situations that require them

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to think critically.

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One way that the Marine Corps Association supports

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this is by providing decision forcing cases.

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A decision forcing case is a decision making

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exercise that places participants

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in the roles of historical protagonists,

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who at some time in the past faced

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a particularly challenging problem.

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In that role,

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participants are asked to devise, deliver, defend, refine,

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and critique solutions to the scenario

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as the scenario moves forward in time, creating

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new problems and opportunities.

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DFCs allow marines to develop vicarious experience,

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develop decision making skills under pressure, and foster

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critical thinking and creative problem solving.

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This is one of the many ways MCA

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supports marines through an adult learning methodology.

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Learn more about our programs and support to

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marines at mca-marines.org/professional-development.

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That's mca-marines.org/professional-development.

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We would like to thank the Marine Corps

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Association and Foundation for sponsoring this episode.

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Hey, Scuttlebutt listeners. This is episode 195.

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This week, we have another episode in our

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segment, Catching Up with Old Friends.

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In this episode, we welcome Will Schick back

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to the show.

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Will is one of the scuttlebutt

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OGs.

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For those of us who grew up in

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the eighties and nineties,

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OGs has a very specific meaning.

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But for the context of a podcast,

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we'll just go with original guest.

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He was our fourth guest, so please go

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back and listen to episode four to hear

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more about Will's background and service.

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For those who missed it, Will is a

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former marine intelligence officer

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and is currently the director of programs and

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partnerships at the Asian American Journalist Association.

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It goes without saying, we did a good

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bit of catching up, and it was great

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to hear all the cool stuff Will is

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doing in journalism

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and mentoring the up and coming generation

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to help them navigate this fraught media landscape.

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And it was great to hear his perspective

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on how we get information

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and how we consume media.

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Here is episode 195.

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Hey, Scuttlebutt listeners. Thank you for joining us

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in your continued support. I'm Vic,

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and this is a, continuation of our series,

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Catching Up with Old Friends. And so I'm

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really happy,

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to be welcoming,

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a good friend of mine

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and previous guest, Will Schick, to the show.

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Will, thanks for coming, man, or being here.

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Yep.

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So,

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unfortunately,

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we're probably, like,

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15 miles apart as the crow flies when

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we're doing this remote.

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So,

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you know, this is what happens when you

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do a weekday

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afternoon

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interview.

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It's gotta be

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You gotta move the location to this to,

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like, a bar or you gotta make it

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more enticing. Dude, we have we have a

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mobile suite. I'm gonna This doesn't sound

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doesn't sound fun.

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Yeah. No. It's it's,

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we did a,

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when we were filming,

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our Fallujah documentary, I was getting a lot

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of audio.

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And, one of the guests,

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who did some of the voice over

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on their account of Fallujah,

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I made the mistake of bring bringing a

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half rack with me to entice them to

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do the thing. And so

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it

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really tails off then towards the end and

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stuff. That's pretty funny.

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Yeah.

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So,

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alright. Well, dude,

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so it's been a while. Like, you were

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one of our first guests

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when we kicked the show off,

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and so it's been a while, man. So

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how's everything been, man? Let's catch up.

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Yeah.

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Gosh. I'm trying to remember the last time

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we talked. I think I was probably still

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working at Street Sense. That's right.

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Newsroom covering poverty and homelessness.

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And then I eventually reached the point there

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where,

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well, I, you know, I ended up getting

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a new opportunity. So then I ended up

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moving over to a place called the Asian

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American Journalists Association

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where

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I help people become journalists and also to

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do journalism better.

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One of the things that I started thinking

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about a lot when I used to work

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at Street Sense,

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which, you know, we work a lot with

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folks who are homeless, worked a lot with

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folks who are low income, living in poverty,

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thinking about just policy,

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the intersection of policy and, like, life, right,

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and to tracking how,

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policy decisions made at, like, the city council

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level that impacted, like, people locally.

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So, yeah, while I was there, I started

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thinking a lot about who gets to do

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this journalism because it seems to be a

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very exclusive field.

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And one of the,

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big dis disparities or one of the one

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of the gulfs one of the things that

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I noticed was just different was

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we had this, like, chunk of people who

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sold the paper, and the chunk of people

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who sold the paper tend to be folks

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that are very low income,

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predominantly

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folks of color. And the folks who came

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in for internships and the journalists who covered

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the stories

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were generally more well off.

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And I started thinking about, wow. You know,

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wouldn't it be cool if we got some

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of these other folks to do some of

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these stories? So we started doing that, and

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we started working in that realm. And then

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I started thinking about just broadly speaking. Yeah.

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And just even my own challenge. Right? Like,

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to to even make it in journalism as

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a veteran

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by itself is very difficult because there's, like,

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all these preconceived notions. So when I talk

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about the old itself even being exclusive, it's,

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like, exclusive to people that have gone to,

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like,

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journalism school at, like, a very prestigious place,

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and it's not always that welcoming field. So

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as you got this opportunity, you go to

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the Asian American Journal Association,

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who had always been kind of helpful to

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me just, like, on the side.

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It was never really a place that I,

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I had intended per se ongoing,

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but I just like the people a lot.

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And then I end up here, and it's

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it's really rewarding, you know, working a lot

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with,

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just really students all over the country,

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and also professionals. Right? So they I I

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did their executive leadership training program.

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Yeah. It's it's really great. And we're we're

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doing a lot of different work.

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I don't know if I should go into

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examples of that. And one of the things

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that we we did recently,

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it was the, we published a style guide.

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And so, you know, for

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for rings, you know, I I always think

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about, like, naval letter format. You know? Yeah.

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In journalism, we have the AP style guide

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and then and, like, in in the military,

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you have, like, naval letter format or whatever

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it's called now. I don't even know what

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it's morphed to. I think some DOD

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morphous thing that people are coming to. But

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those kinds of guides, right, steer the kind

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of conversation that you're able to have.

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And so,

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at a a j a,

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we published our own style guide just, you

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know, recently, I think, in the past couple

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years. And our style guide,

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kinda gets at some age in Asian American

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issues and, you know, interrogates some of the

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language that we use around like, that we

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talk about stuff. So

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one example of it is, you know, Russia,

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Ukraine

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conflict, the war.

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Russia has been employing these drones

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that are, like, self detonating. And so when

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they hit, like, a vehicle, they just like

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blow up. And they've been calling these drones,

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the media,

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in in just journals and journals. So we

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call it describing these drones as kamikaze attacks

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and kamikaze drones. Yeah. It's just, like, kind

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of

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pissed off a lot

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of military vets like myself and other, like,

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the Asian Americans who are like, dude, this

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has something to do with Comic Con and

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the attacks. Right. I mean, I got no

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problem with you using the language. Right? But,

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like, that means something. Right? That's like World

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War two. That's like this whole other thing

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that happened. Right? And, like, that's like, nobody's

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actually like, a person is not piloting that

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and crashing and dying. Right. Right.

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And so maybe we call it something different.

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And then they're like, well, what do you

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call it? You can call it a self

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detonating drone, an attack drone, like, anything. Right?

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Describe what it does. And so,

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you know, recently, we put that out there

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and and, we were able to work with

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different publications to even change the way that

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they report on it to give you a

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little more accuracy. We actually teamed up with

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the military veterans journalism network, which is headed

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by,

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actually, several guys that were in the marines.

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Those would be actually great people to talk

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to. Yeah. No. That sounds really great. Yeah.

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That's it. That's it. I didn't really understand

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sort of the power of language,

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and even the presentation of language until I

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came here.

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And then

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you know? Because, I mean, even when we

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were at AU,

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like, the big thing was

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understanding the form, playing with form, doing the

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art.

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Yes. You're sort of, like, MLA

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adjacent, but, like like, no one's really gonna,

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like, hold your feet to the fire

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over some of the stuff,

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as long as you,

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like, can sort of explain

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this is what I'm trying to do creatively.

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And, guy, it's fine. You know, whatever.

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Also, because we had so many workshops, it

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was like, alright. You know?

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You were being we were being graded on

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it. So I never really,

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understood the importance until I came here, and

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they're like, yeah. We don't do AP. We

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do Chicago Manual style. I'm like,

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oh, great. I know all those. Like, what

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are you talking about?

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Of course, I know those.

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And so I then I dive just diving

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00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,940
into it, and and it's like,

273
00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:05,600
you know, it's almost like,

274
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,240
for theology folks out there, it's like the

275
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,855
different, like, biblical translations. You know? Like, oh,

276
00:10:10,855 --> 00:10:12,134
well, you know, we're deciding to go with

277
00:10:12,134 --> 00:10:14,455
this instead of this, and this is why.

278
00:10:14,455 --> 00:10:14,955
Anyhow,

279
00:10:16,455 --> 00:10:17,975
so what does that mean then? So you

280
00:10:17,975 --> 00:10:19,835
guys put out your own style guide.

281
00:10:20,855 --> 00:10:22,455
When you said you put it out, does

282
00:10:22,455 --> 00:10:24,360
that mean that, like, you're sending it

283
00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:26,379
to, these larger,

284
00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:29,500
news outlets

285
00:10:29,879 --> 00:10:32,039
for them to reference? Okay. So, one of

286
00:10:32,039 --> 00:10:34,279
the things we we have members, about 2,000

287
00:10:34,279 --> 00:10:35,179
members worldwide

288
00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,240
as part of our association, and many of

289
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:38,620
them work in different newsrooms.

290
00:10:39,134 --> 00:10:40,754
Okay. Inform the committee,

291
00:10:41,134 --> 00:10:43,455
and our committee also consists of folks who

292
00:10:43,455 --> 00:10:45,695
are editors at different places. And the whole

293
00:10:45,695 --> 00:10:47,134
reason for that is, like, you know, it's

294
00:10:47,134 --> 00:10:50,095
important I think, maybe for your listener audience

295
00:10:50,095 --> 00:10:51,535
too, like, when you think about just having

296
00:10:51,535 --> 00:10:52,595
a veteran's perspective.

297
00:10:52,929 --> 00:10:53,910
Yeah. Oftentimes,

298
00:10:54,370 --> 00:10:55,730
like, if you have a veteran who's a

299
00:10:55,730 --> 00:10:57,750
journalist, like, that's kind of like a uniform.

300
00:10:58,050 --> 00:11:00,410
And so, like, having somebody there to be

301
00:11:00,410 --> 00:11:02,769
a part of that discussion can maybe who's

302
00:11:02,769 --> 00:11:04,769
like, who is a veteran might be able

303
00:11:04,769 --> 00:11:06,210
to point out that, like, hey. That story

304
00:11:06,210 --> 00:11:07,269
you have on gun violence,

305
00:11:07,754 --> 00:11:09,835
like, you you didn't really accurately describe what

306
00:11:09,835 --> 00:11:11,615
a gun does. Like, I don't

307
00:11:11,915 --> 00:11:13,355
and then to kind of, like, give that

308
00:11:13,355 --> 00:11:16,254
sort of sanity check. Similarly with, like, AAJA,

309
00:11:16,394 --> 00:11:18,475
you know, our members, our editors at various

310
00:11:18,475 --> 00:11:20,470
publications, and we see this as kind of

311
00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:22,470
like a brain trust. Like, does this even

312
00:11:22,470 --> 00:11:24,710
make sense? Right? Yeah. And we've done stuff

313
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:25,830
in the past where it's like

314
00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:29,190
you know, we had, like, victims of, like,

315
00:11:29,190 --> 00:11:30,389
hate crimes, and it's like

316
00:11:32,625 --> 00:11:33,985
can we just tell you how to pronounce

317
00:11:33,985 --> 00:11:35,585
your names properly so you don't, like, mess

318
00:11:35,585 --> 00:11:37,904
it up online? Yeah. Yeah. Set up when

319
00:11:37,904 --> 00:11:40,304
you go, on broadcast. So we do things

320
00:11:40,304 --> 00:11:41,665
like that where it's kind of like a

321
00:11:41,665 --> 00:11:42,965
common sense thing.

322
00:11:43,345 --> 00:11:45,264
But it is, yeah. And so when we

323
00:11:45,264 --> 00:11:46,705
say publish it, we have a thing we

324
00:11:46,705 --> 00:11:47,695
have a website

325
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,159
out there, a jstyleguide.org.

326
00:11:51,159 --> 00:11:51,820
And then,

327
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,360
in addition to the website, you know, we've

328
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:55,799
we've we've been kind of just going around

329
00:11:55,799 --> 00:11:57,959
touring different newsrooms and talking to people and

330
00:11:57,959 --> 00:11:59,500
just showing them the stuff. And,

331
00:12:00,605 --> 00:12:01,965
you know, we have a few I mean,

332
00:12:01,965 --> 00:12:04,225
you know, basically, if it's, like, not a,

333
00:12:05,085 --> 00:12:06,925
slur you know, if it's a slur, we

334
00:12:06,925 --> 00:12:09,004
ask you not to use it, basically. And

335
00:12:09,004 --> 00:12:10,684
then other things that there's a lot of

336
00:12:10,684 --> 00:12:12,524
food for thought there. Right? Like and I

337
00:12:12,524 --> 00:12:14,144
think oftentimes, people just

338
00:12:14,450 --> 00:12:16,289
maybe haven't really realized that other people are

339
00:12:16,289 --> 00:12:17,490
thinking in the same way. One of the

340
00:12:17,490 --> 00:12:19,190
things that's kind of interesting is

341
00:12:19,730 --> 00:12:21,490
recently, actually, it went and,

342
00:12:22,610 --> 00:12:23,429
there's a,

343
00:12:23,889 --> 00:12:26,210
there was an exhibit. Actually, there's actually this

344
00:12:26,210 --> 00:12:26,950
whole thing.

345
00:12:27,335 --> 00:12:29,995
It's actually nationwide. They're taking around this book

346
00:12:30,375 --> 00:12:31,995
of names of people who

347
00:12:32,375 --> 00:12:34,294
were incarcerated during World War two in the

348
00:12:34,294 --> 00:12:35,514
Japanese American,

349
00:12:36,294 --> 00:12:37,514
camps. Yeah.

350
00:12:38,455 --> 00:12:41,115
Otherwise known as internment camps. And so,

351
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,639
they're taking this book of names around and

352
00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:45,139
actually,

353
00:12:45,639 --> 00:12:47,160
people who are relatives or other folks that

354
00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,879
wanna remember them, it's like dot the you

355
00:12:49,879 --> 00:12:51,559
know, put a dot in the name or

356
00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,320
next to the name. And it's like this

357
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:54,759
huge book, and they're going to do this

358
00:12:54,759 --> 00:12:56,654
tour across the country. But the Japanese American

359
00:12:56,654 --> 00:12:59,075
Citizens League for forever has been like,

360
00:13:00,975 --> 00:13:03,294
hey. These families were, like, forced from their

361
00:13:03,294 --> 00:13:05,934
homes and put into a camp that were

362
00:13:05,934 --> 00:13:08,914
under armed guard and not allowed to leave.

363
00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:11,500
What the hell does internment even mean? They

364
00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:13,519
were incarcerated, right, voluntarily.

365
00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:16,299
And so that's kinda like the term that

366
00:13:16,299 --> 00:13:17,659
we so we put that like, that's like

367
00:13:17,659 --> 00:13:20,379
inner style. We say, well I mean, say

368
00:13:20,379 --> 00:13:21,740
what say what you will or however you

369
00:13:21,740 --> 00:13:23,259
wanna describe it, but people are, like, locked

370
00:13:23,259 --> 00:13:25,424
up in that loud leak. Yeah. Yeah. And,

371
00:13:25,424 --> 00:13:27,264
you know, that that's just, like, fact. Right?

372
00:13:27,264 --> 00:13:27,764
History.

373
00:13:28,544 --> 00:13:30,865
And so we're like some people have been

374
00:13:30,865 --> 00:13:33,125
using internment, but other folks, right, like

375
00:13:33,585 --> 00:13:35,825
are like, hey. That's not really an accurate

376
00:13:35,825 --> 00:13:36,325
term,

377
00:13:36,865 --> 00:13:38,785
and not a really accurate way to kinda

378
00:13:38,785 --> 00:13:39,764
describe it. Right?

379
00:13:40,990 --> 00:13:42,830
A better a more accurate way might be

380
00:13:42,830 --> 00:13:45,389
to say these folks are incarcerated. Now, you

381
00:13:45,389 --> 00:13:45,870
know,

382
00:13:46,509 --> 00:13:49,490
you'll still see internment out there. Yeah. Sure.

383
00:13:49,629 --> 00:13:51,149
Well, I was just thinking, like, one of

384
00:13:51,149 --> 00:13:53,490
my favorite books is, Just Americans,

385
00:13:54,924 --> 00:13:56,044
that talks about the,

386
00:13:56,924 --> 00:13:57,424
Hawaii

387
00:13:57,884 --> 00:14:00,044
I draw a blank every time. Like, the

388
00:14:00,044 --> 00:14:00,544
hundred

389
00:14:01,004 --> 00:14:01,504
eleventh?

390
00:14:02,924 --> 00:14:04,445
If you should read the the Purple Heart

391
00:14:04,445 --> 00:14:04,945
Brigade.

392
00:14:05,485 --> 00:14:07,245
Yes. Yes. I think it's, the

393
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:10,070
no. I I think it's like the I

394
00:14:10,070 --> 00:14:11,769
don't know the, like, the May

395
00:14:11,830 --> 00:14:12,889
or something or

396
00:14:13,429 --> 00:14:14,549
April

397
00:14:14,549 --> 00:14:16,389
or something like that. Yeah. Maybe it is

398
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:18,389
for it says the yeah. Because the May,

399
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:20,089
that's Band of Brothers, guys.

400
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:20,970
Yeah.

401
00:14:22,105 --> 00:14:22,424
But

402
00:14:23,065 --> 00:14:24,365
yeah. Anyways, I

403
00:14:24,665 --> 00:14:26,504
You know, for second, I think it was.

404
00:14:26,504 --> 00:14:28,745
Okay. Yeah. Clearly, I've done my research here.

405
00:14:28,745 --> 00:14:28,985
But,

406
00:14:29,625 --> 00:14:30,125
Daniel,

407
00:14:30,665 --> 00:14:33,004
Inouye was, you know, he

408
00:14:33,384 --> 00:14:34,764
lost his arm and

409
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:36,980
Yeah. So, anyway,

410
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:39,759
they refer to that in the book. And

411
00:14:39,759 --> 00:14:41,600
now granted that book's, like, 20 years old

412
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:42,500
or something, but,

413
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,200
yeah, they refer to that as the, the

414
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,620
Japanese internment camps. But, you know?

415
00:14:48,325 --> 00:14:49,524
I mean, that's the other thing too. Right?

416
00:14:49,524 --> 00:14:51,284
So, like, language is, like, what you make

417
00:14:51,284 --> 00:14:52,585
of it. And so, like,

418
00:14:53,125 --> 00:14:55,625
my personal view, right, is that, like,

419
00:14:57,205 --> 00:14:59,044
you kinda have to speak the same language

420
00:14:59,044 --> 00:15:00,804
to understand each other. So there's a thing

421
00:15:00,804 --> 00:15:01,865
to be said about

422
00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:04,519
having, like, agency over the language that you

423
00:15:04,519 --> 00:15:06,440
use. And it's like when you put me

424
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,720
in a room so I'm doing this other,

425
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,600
like, leadership program thing Yeah. Recently. I'm gonna

426
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,679
be in Florida next week for it. But

427
00:15:12,679 --> 00:15:14,679
in our group and it's, like, mostly journalists

428
00:15:14,679 --> 00:15:17,704
and journalists, executives, etcetera. In this group, it's

429
00:15:17,704 --> 00:15:19,725
crazy. There are, like, two other marines.

430
00:15:20,904 --> 00:15:22,824
So one guy is this guy, Thomas Brennan,

431
00:15:22,824 --> 00:15:25,225
New Braun's Warhorse. Really great guy on your

432
00:15:25,225 --> 00:15:25,725
show.

433
00:15:26,105 --> 00:15:28,105
And then another guy, he's actually from the

434
00:15:28,105 --> 00:15:29,920
APU, he's in the Royal Marines. But it's

435
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,840
interesting because you put us in the like,

436
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:32,980
put us in a room together,

437
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,759
and suddenly we're speaking the same language. And

438
00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:37,440
it it it could cover so much more

439
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,920
ground because if this is, like, common language

440
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,840
that we have. Yeah. So something to be

441
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,934
said there about that language and then being

442
00:15:43,934 --> 00:15:45,855
able to have access to it. Right? So,

443
00:15:45,855 --> 00:15:46,355
like,

444
00:15:46,975 --> 00:15:49,215
I've maybe there's, like, maybe a handful of

445
00:15:49,215 --> 00:15:50,995
folks that I've worked with over the years

446
00:15:51,295 --> 00:15:52,674
who've maybe had

447
00:15:52,975 --> 00:15:54,115
who've had more

448
00:15:54,575 --> 00:15:55,795
exposure to veterans.

449
00:15:56,339 --> 00:15:58,740
And so sometimes it's easier to talk to

450
00:15:58,740 --> 00:16:01,059
them because they speak the lingo. So I

451
00:16:01,059 --> 00:16:02,899
think there's something about being able to speak

452
00:16:02,899 --> 00:16:05,860
the lingo. And there are different communities out

453
00:16:05,860 --> 00:16:07,860
there that use different kinds of lingos, and

454
00:16:07,860 --> 00:16:09,459
it's better when we know what the conventions

455
00:16:09,459 --> 00:16:10,980
are for each of them so that we

456
00:16:10,980 --> 00:16:11,639
can, like,

457
00:16:12,055 --> 00:16:12,555
move,

458
00:16:12,935 --> 00:16:15,014
within those communities better. So I I think

459
00:16:15,014 --> 00:16:16,935
something to be said about that. I think

460
00:16:16,935 --> 00:16:18,295
there's a lot to be said. I wanna

461
00:16:18,295 --> 00:16:19,195
touch on,

462
00:16:19,654 --> 00:16:21,675
the, the this executive

463
00:16:23,894 --> 00:16:26,079
committee that you guys are running, which I

464
00:16:26,079 --> 00:16:27,779
think is super fascinating. But,

465
00:16:28,879 --> 00:16:30,019
I do wanna

466
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,720
keep on this while we're talking about it

467
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:33,220
because

468
00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:35,539
one of the things that I'm really fascinated

469
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,220
with right now is information,

470
00:16:37,759 --> 00:16:40,559
how we get information, and how information is

471
00:16:40,559 --> 00:16:43,575
disseminated, how we, you know, absorb and ingest

472
00:16:43,575 --> 00:16:44,075
it.

473
00:16:45,495 --> 00:16:48,615
And I think the language part is, you

474
00:16:48,615 --> 00:16:50,154
know, a key piece

475
00:16:51,175 --> 00:16:52,795
to this, especially we're talking,

476
00:16:53,415 --> 00:16:55,195
you know, with before we,

477
00:16:55,709 --> 00:16:57,470
started recording, you know, we were talking about,

478
00:16:57,470 --> 00:16:57,970
like,

479
00:16:58,429 --> 00:17:00,209
well, what do we wanna talk about?

480
00:17:01,149 --> 00:17:03,230
And one of the things was, like, well,

481
00:17:03,230 --> 00:17:04,589
you know, I'm a this is the d

482
00:17:04,669 --> 00:17:07,490
you know, a AAJA is a DEI organization,

483
00:17:08,029 --> 00:17:10,029
and so that's gonna come up. And, like,

484
00:17:10,029 --> 00:17:12,055
yeah. Let's let's lean into it.

485
00:17:13,875 --> 00:17:14,375
And,

486
00:17:15,954 --> 00:17:18,295
you know, in in that vein,

487
00:17:19,474 --> 00:17:20,535
when you hear,

488
00:17:21,315 --> 00:17:23,894
something like an, you know, Asian American journalists,

489
00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:27,160
and you're talking about a DEI organization,

490
00:17:28,259 --> 00:17:30,820
it isn't this monolithic thing where, hey. All

491
00:17:30,820 --> 00:17:31,960
we're doing is pushing

492
00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:35,380
Asian American sort of interest because you as

493
00:17:35,380 --> 00:17:36,340
you reference more

494
00:17:37,325 --> 00:17:39,724
you reference being a veteran more than you've

495
00:17:39,724 --> 00:17:40,865
referenced being Asian.

496
00:17:41,244 --> 00:17:43,424
And I think that that's where,

497
00:17:44,765 --> 00:17:47,244
language plays such a huge role because it

498
00:17:47,244 --> 00:17:48,545
isn't just about

499
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:51,140
an agenda.

500
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,000
It is, like you said, communicating on a

501
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,619
level that is very similar

502
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,019
and that has multiple interests.

503
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,440
It isn't this sort of, like, yeah, like,

504
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,599
this monolithic thing where we're just trying to

505
00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:05,380
push some sort of agenda.

506
00:18:06,075 --> 00:18:07,615
You what you guys are doing

507
00:18:08,075 --> 00:18:10,554
is you sort of have this, you know,

508
00:18:10,554 --> 00:18:11,375
Venn diagram

509
00:18:11,914 --> 00:18:12,974
almost where,

510
00:18:13,835 --> 00:18:16,154
you know, especially if we're talking Taiwan, we're

511
00:18:16,154 --> 00:18:18,174
talking about tense relations in The Pacific.

512
00:18:18,890 --> 00:18:20,990
Having a veteran Asian American

513
00:18:21,369 --> 00:18:23,210
would probably be really great to help, like,

514
00:18:23,210 --> 00:18:24,890
sort of help level the playing field on

515
00:18:24,890 --> 00:18:26,990
the type of language that's being used

516
00:18:27,450 --> 00:18:27,950
to

517
00:18:28,490 --> 00:18:29,710
convey information.

518
00:18:30,674 --> 00:18:31,955
I don't know. I it's kind of a

519
00:18:32,035 --> 00:18:33,315
Sorry. I think you're absolutely right. And I

520
00:18:33,315 --> 00:18:34,355
think, you know, one of the things that

521
00:18:34,355 --> 00:18:34,934
I think

522
00:18:35,235 --> 00:18:37,815
oftentimes gets misconstrued is that is that,

523
00:18:38,434 --> 00:18:40,115
you know, when we're we're at Asian American

524
00:18:40,115 --> 00:18:41,955
Journal Association or even, like, I'm a member

525
00:18:41,955 --> 00:18:44,355
of the military veterans in journalism network. One

526
00:18:44,355 --> 00:18:45,875
of the things is, like, we think about

527
00:18:45,875 --> 00:18:46,375
is,

528
00:18:47,099 --> 00:18:49,740
don't exclude us don't exclude us from that

529
00:18:49,740 --> 00:18:52,960
space because of who we are. Right? And,

530
00:18:53,579 --> 00:18:55,200
there could be an argument made,

531
00:18:55,819 --> 00:18:57,900
a compelling one at that, that maybe we

532
00:18:57,900 --> 00:18:58,960
should be considered

533
00:18:59,654 --> 00:19:01,275
to be part of that conversation

534
00:19:01,734 --> 00:19:03,815
because we, you know, our folks might bring

535
00:19:03,815 --> 00:19:05,734
a different perspective. And, you know, when I

536
00:19:05,734 --> 00:19:07,494
was in the marines, I I got foreign

537
00:19:07,494 --> 00:19:09,575
language proficiency pay. Like, I speak a hand

538
00:19:09,654 --> 00:19:10,855
like, as you know, I speak a handful

539
00:19:10,855 --> 00:19:13,490
of languages. Mhmm. It'd be really dumb, right,

540
00:19:13,490 --> 00:19:15,970
like, to to have a marine that speaks,

541
00:19:15,970 --> 00:19:17,490
like, a local language and then not use

542
00:19:17,490 --> 00:19:19,589
them there. Right. Even consider

543
00:19:20,049 --> 00:19:21,890
bringing that marine with you on a deployment

544
00:19:21,890 --> 00:19:24,194
to that particular locale. Because, man, does that

545
00:19:24,274 --> 00:19:25,954
does that, like that's a force multiplier right

546
00:19:25,954 --> 00:19:27,174
there. Like, you can get,

547
00:19:27,875 --> 00:19:29,815
so much out of that. And so,

548
00:19:31,394 --> 00:19:32,914
yeah. So I I just I think there's

549
00:19:32,914 --> 00:19:34,534
a value add from,

550
00:19:35,394 --> 00:19:37,470
you know, from that kind of standpoint of

551
00:19:37,950 --> 00:19:39,630
what kind of skills folks bring. You know?

552
00:19:39,630 --> 00:19:40,750
And it's it's,

553
00:19:42,349 --> 00:19:44,909
Yeah. There was a Simpsons bit. I think

554
00:19:44,909 --> 00:19:45,890
it was during,

555
00:19:46,829 --> 00:19:49,490
the, who shot mister Burns series.

556
00:19:50,555 --> 00:19:52,555
But they had this guy come out of

557
00:19:52,555 --> 00:19:54,634
the court. You know, all the journalists are

558
00:19:54,634 --> 00:19:55,295
all like,

559
00:19:55,835 --> 00:19:57,275
doing all that stuff. And then one guy

560
00:19:57,275 --> 00:19:59,195
goes, who are you? Why are you here?

561
00:19:59,195 --> 00:20:01,454
And the other guy, the main,

562
00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:05,200
Kent Brockman guy goes, do your research. Like,

563
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,799
shoves him out of the way. And I

564
00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:08,080
sort of feel like in a lot of

565
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:08,580
ways,

566
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,140
having this sort of inclusion

567
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:13,700
I know that's a dirty word.

568
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,380
But it at least

569
00:20:16,394 --> 00:20:19,115
considering it as being a force multiplier, like

570
00:20:19,115 --> 00:20:20,494
you said, sort of gets

571
00:20:20,875 --> 00:20:22,394
it gets you ahead of that who are

572
00:20:22,394 --> 00:20:23,695
you and why are you here

573
00:20:24,075 --> 00:20:26,955
part of any sort of journalism or any

574
00:20:26,955 --> 00:20:30,414
sort of information gathering, intelligence gathering where

575
00:20:30,779 --> 00:20:33,279
you don't have to get your IPB.

576
00:20:33,820 --> 00:20:35,019
You don't have to spend as much time

577
00:20:35,019 --> 00:20:35,920
in your IPB.

578
00:20:36,460 --> 00:20:38,619
Yeah. I I I honestly and, you know,

579
00:20:38,619 --> 00:20:39,820
I was like an intel guy in the

580
00:20:39,820 --> 00:20:41,100
marines. And so, like That's why I went

581
00:20:41,180 --> 00:20:42,059
that's why I said

582
00:20:42,460 --> 00:20:43,820
things that happened when I was there. I

583
00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:45,100
was like, I was stationed at third rate

584
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:46,684
of time in Hawaii,

585
00:20:46,984 --> 00:20:49,384
and, almost every officer in the unit cycled

586
00:20:49,384 --> 00:20:51,544
through Korea to do a deployment there, to

587
00:20:51,544 --> 00:20:53,784
do some kind of exercise. Right? And I

588
00:20:53,784 --> 00:20:55,704
was the only officer who spoke fluent Korean

589
00:20:55,704 --> 00:20:57,484
and the only officer that didn't go.

590
00:20:58,940 --> 00:21:01,099
That wasn't planned that way. Right? I got

591
00:21:01,179 --> 00:21:03,259
because I did a diploma to Afghanistan. I

592
00:21:03,259 --> 00:21:05,779
was I did something else in Okinawa and

593
00:21:05,779 --> 00:21:07,660
it was different places. This is on the

594
00:21:07,660 --> 00:21:09,500
thirty first muse. So, like, it just so

595
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:11,900
happened that I wasn't in the exercise schedule.

596
00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:13,894
But boy, it's had an oversight. Yeah. Yeah.

597
00:21:13,894 --> 00:21:16,134
Yeah. Holy crap. Is that an oversight? You

598
00:21:16,134 --> 00:21:17,894
know? And, The tip is the tip. The

599
00:21:17,894 --> 00:21:20,214
tip is the tip. Yeah. Exactly. And so,

600
00:21:20,214 --> 00:21:22,294
like, I think in that way, sometimes it's

601
00:21:22,294 --> 00:21:24,234
like a smart allocation of your resources.

602
00:21:24,615 --> 00:21:26,294
Right? Like, I I can't remember exactly how

603
00:21:26,294 --> 00:21:27,494
you do it in the PP, but you

604
00:21:27,494 --> 00:21:29,720
look at, like, what is your tasks? What

605
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,880
resources do you have available? Yeah. Boy, doesn't

606
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,319
it make sense to have a wide variety

607
00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:33,980
of resources?

608
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,679
Right? Yeah. And and I don't know. Like,

609
00:21:36,679 --> 00:21:39,179
you know, when I deployed Afghanistan, you know,

610
00:21:39,319 --> 00:21:40,599
we had a guy on our team that

611
00:21:40,599 --> 00:21:43,159
spoke Farsi, like, full. Like, boom. Like, is

612
00:21:43,159 --> 00:21:44,994
that a huge it's a huge,

613
00:21:45,695 --> 00:21:47,455
help? So it's like, I think things like

614
00:21:47,535 --> 00:21:48,914
considering things like that

615
00:21:49,375 --> 00:21:49,875
is,

616
00:21:50,414 --> 00:21:53,215
is incredibly important. And I think not just

617
00:21:53,215 --> 00:21:55,055
within the military, but even outside. Right? Like,

618
00:21:55,055 --> 00:21:57,295
there's applications everywhere else, and we see it

619
00:21:57,295 --> 00:21:58,515
happen quite a bit.

620
00:21:59,759 --> 00:22:00,559
Well, let let's

621
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,220
as far as that's concerned then, so,

622
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,920
assuming that those considerations are taken and then

623
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,080
sort of, you know, I'm asking you to

624
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,920
sort of look at this through both your,

625
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:12,740
journalist

626
00:22:13,304 --> 00:22:15,404
journalist lens, but also your intelligence

627
00:22:16,264 --> 00:22:17,964
bubble lens is that

628
00:22:19,304 --> 00:22:22,444
in this sort of current era, I guess

629
00:22:22,825 --> 00:22:23,804
I mean, I guess

630
00:22:24,105 --> 00:22:26,700
it is officially the information age. Right? Like,

631
00:22:26,779 --> 00:22:28,460
we're past sort of the digital age kind

632
00:22:28,460 --> 00:22:30,639
of into the in It's information and disinformation

633
00:22:30,859 --> 00:22:33,179
age probably more accurately described. Yeah. It it

634
00:22:33,339 --> 00:22:35,759
that's what I'm getting at. So in this

635
00:22:35,980 --> 00:22:38,240
era where we are,

636
00:22:39,099 --> 00:22:40,159
it isn't necessarily

637
00:22:41,845 --> 00:22:44,005
the the likes and the reposts don't go

638
00:22:44,005 --> 00:22:47,125
to the person who is conveying the information

639
00:22:47,125 --> 00:22:49,464
the most accurately. It's usually the person who

640
00:22:49,525 --> 00:22:51,224
either puts it out first

641
00:22:51,525 --> 00:22:53,065
or makes it the most salacious.

642
00:22:55,450 --> 00:22:58,009
And so and then the algorithms, you know,

643
00:22:58,009 --> 00:22:59,950
obviously just jump all over it.

644
00:23:01,850 --> 00:23:03,769
What does that mean then as you we're

645
00:23:03,769 --> 00:23:05,450
talking about sort of,

646
00:23:06,090 --> 00:23:06,830
the proper

647
00:23:07,210 --> 00:23:09,789
use of resources and allocation of resources?

648
00:23:10,565 --> 00:23:12,325
It seems like something like what you guys

649
00:23:12,325 --> 00:23:14,505
are doing, especially for if you're covering

650
00:23:15,444 --> 00:23:18,105
things in Asia or in Asian American communities.

651
00:23:18,804 --> 00:23:20,325
Right? Like, that would just make sense then

652
00:23:20,325 --> 00:23:22,565
to get ahead of that whole, like, who

653
00:23:22,565 --> 00:23:24,244
are you and why are you here sort

654
00:23:24,244 --> 00:23:25,304
of aspect of

655
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,339
and also maybe even get

656
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:29,819
to get, certain perspectives

657
00:23:30,919 --> 00:23:31,899
in that information

658
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:32,700
sharing

659
00:23:33,319 --> 00:23:35,720
that you wouldn't get from someone who's just

660
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,019
coming in cold. Right?

661
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,684
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I I think so

662
00:23:39,684 --> 00:23:41,365
there's, like, multiple things that are happening here.

663
00:23:41,365 --> 00:23:43,605
Right? So journalism as an industry is kinda

664
00:23:43,605 --> 00:23:45,784
dying. So it's kinda weird to leave,

665
00:23:46,484 --> 00:23:48,404
my life in the military, the promise of

666
00:23:48,404 --> 00:23:49,625
a twenty year retirement.

667
00:23:50,244 --> 00:23:52,085
It could be some, like, crazy ass thing,

668
00:23:52,085 --> 00:23:54,440
like, go join the just to go try

669
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,080
to become a journalist, which itself was, like,

670
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,200
a difficult thing. And then being here, people

671
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,039
are like, welcome to the party. This party

672
00:24:02,039 --> 00:24:03,660
is slowly dying. And

673
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,384
fast. And so it's like It's a dead

674
00:24:07,384 --> 00:24:08,744
man's party. I don't know if I get

675
00:24:08,744 --> 00:24:11,304
sued for yeah. Yeah. Right. And so, like

676
00:24:11,384 --> 00:24:13,144
so then I'm like, okay. So we we're

677
00:24:13,144 --> 00:24:14,204
we're in a dying industry.

678
00:24:15,144 --> 00:24:15,644
And,

679
00:24:17,625 --> 00:24:18,984
a lot of that's, like, kind of clinging

680
00:24:18,984 --> 00:24:21,224
on to, like, older business models, not figuring

681
00:24:21,224 --> 00:24:22,429
out how to, like, monetize,

682
00:24:22,809 --> 00:24:25,289
like, the information that they're putting out there.

683
00:24:25,289 --> 00:24:27,529
I think social media came on board and

684
00:24:27,529 --> 00:24:28,889
ended up taking all the ad revenue. So,

685
00:24:28,889 --> 00:24:30,589
like, we all know that kind of story.

686
00:24:31,369 --> 00:24:33,130
But what I think is really interesting in

687
00:24:33,130 --> 00:24:34,669
the time that we live in right now

688
00:24:35,335 --> 00:24:36,234
is that,

689
00:24:36,934 --> 00:24:38,694
you may have journalism and you have news,

690
00:24:38,694 --> 00:24:40,534
and people have this, like, fixed idea of

691
00:24:40,534 --> 00:24:42,054
what they think it should be and then

692
00:24:42,054 --> 00:24:43,194
what they think it was.

693
00:24:44,294 --> 00:24:45,894
And that model is kind of dying. So

694
00:24:45,894 --> 00:24:48,315
we've seen, like, a divestiture like, divestment

695
00:24:48,769 --> 00:24:51,730
that's across the country from, like, local news

696
00:24:51,730 --> 00:24:55,349
sources Yeah. And leaning more towards this, like,

697
00:24:57,169 --> 00:24:59,169
well, it's just going it's it's being replaced

698
00:24:59,169 --> 00:25:00,789
by sort of national discussions.

699
00:25:01,234 --> 00:25:02,755
And so, like, a lot of things are

700
00:25:02,755 --> 00:25:05,075
now, like, beginning of who's Nuance, and it's

701
00:25:05,075 --> 00:25:07,075
mostly, like, national sort of rage bait kind

702
00:25:07,075 --> 00:25:07,734
of stuff.

703
00:25:09,715 --> 00:25:11,015
And I think

704
00:25:11,474 --> 00:25:14,115
it leads to, like, conversations that aren't very

705
00:25:14,115 --> 00:25:14,615
fruitful.

706
00:25:15,559 --> 00:25:17,799
And I I think it becomes concerning because

707
00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:19,660
in The United States, I feel like,

708
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:21,819
we have

709
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,440
like, as individual citizens, like, not only is

710
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,839
all this, like, stuff all these, like, the

711
00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:29,980
sources of basically reliable information sort of fading

712
00:25:30,454 --> 00:25:32,055
or being sort of,

713
00:25:33,974 --> 00:25:36,375
crowded out by other sources that are not

714
00:25:36,375 --> 00:25:39,015
very reliable. Right? Just because it's the the

715
00:25:39,015 --> 00:25:40,855
information space is being crowded. Not only is

716
00:25:40,855 --> 00:25:43,859
that happening, it's also happening simultaneously with sort

717
00:25:43,859 --> 00:25:45,079
of the rise in,

718
00:25:45,619 --> 00:25:47,400
these social media networks and,

719
00:25:48,180 --> 00:25:50,339
applications. Like, I can't do anything without signing

720
00:25:50,339 --> 00:25:52,980
up for username and password. Right. Right. Right.

721
00:25:52,980 --> 00:25:55,940
I have, like like, probably 80 different accounts

722
00:25:55,940 --> 00:25:58,125
to 80 different things everywhere. And all those

723
00:25:58,125 --> 00:25:59,884
people are collecting data on me, and I

724
00:25:59,884 --> 00:26:01,644
have no idea what kind of data they're

725
00:26:01,644 --> 00:26:03,644
collecting about me. Right? And then they're they're

726
00:26:03,644 --> 00:26:05,884
using that stuff to feed me algorithms so

727
00:26:05,884 --> 00:26:07,724
that whenever I go to, like, Instagram or

728
00:26:07,724 --> 00:26:09,984
TikTok, it's basically this, like, supercharged,

729
00:26:10,909 --> 00:26:11,950
really, like, great,

730
00:26:14,190 --> 00:26:17,710
like, infomercial service. Or, like like, I'll be

731
00:26:17,710 --> 00:26:19,869
watching some, like, running influencer because I'm really

732
00:26:19,869 --> 00:26:21,950
into running. And next thing you know, I'm

733
00:26:21,950 --> 00:26:23,630
being sold on some, like, running gels. I'm

734
00:26:23,630 --> 00:26:24,529
like, what the hell?

735
00:26:25,924 --> 00:26:28,164
And so it's like you're getting packaged into

736
00:26:28,164 --> 00:26:30,964
this this other thing because people are throwing

737
00:26:30,964 --> 00:26:33,765
up the monetization. And I I fear that

738
00:26:33,765 --> 00:26:36,325
we're, like, heading to this territory where we're

739
00:26:36,325 --> 00:26:37,304
basically living,

740
00:26:38,019 --> 00:26:40,500
like, infomercials. Right? Like, that's Yeah. How we

741
00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:41,720
get. It's, like, infomercial.

742
00:26:42,179 --> 00:26:43,700
Well, you know, we when,

743
00:26:44,099 --> 00:26:45,160
we were talking,

744
00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:48,200
when I first called you about coming on

745
00:26:48,339 --> 00:26:49,079
for this,

746
00:26:49,539 --> 00:26:50,039
segment,

747
00:26:51,095 --> 00:26:52,875
the reason I called was because

748
00:26:53,575 --> 00:26:56,075
we I was sort of doing a,

749
00:26:57,174 --> 00:26:59,035
sort of a canvassing on, like,

750
00:26:59,494 --> 00:26:59,994
how

751
00:27:00,615 --> 00:27:02,795
how are these damn glue stiffing kids

752
00:27:03,255 --> 00:27:04,315
consuming info?

753
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,619
Like and what's what's the behavior?

754
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,320
And then we got to talking of, like,

755
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,100
stop. Let's do this on the podcast.

756
00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:12,920
But, like so what are some of your

757
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:13,820
thoughts? Because

758
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,820
it seems to me, like,

759
00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:17,420
if you're not,

760
00:27:18,125 --> 00:27:18,625
like,

761
00:27:19,164 --> 00:27:21,985
shooting on the black within about thirty seconds,

762
00:27:22,605 --> 00:27:24,285
you've lost them. And then if you keep

763
00:27:24,285 --> 00:27:24,785
going

764
00:27:25,244 --> 00:27:27,664
more than maybe two and a half, three,

765
00:27:27,725 --> 00:27:28,865
they're checking out.

766
00:27:29,929 --> 00:27:31,849
Is that and I I didn't mean they

767
00:27:31,849 --> 00:27:34,349
as in, like, all those young youngsters.

768
00:27:35,130 --> 00:27:37,950
They meaning people who consume media. Right?

769
00:27:38,970 --> 00:27:41,289
Yeah. Yeah. People who consume media. I I

770
00:27:41,289 --> 00:27:41,789
think

771
00:27:42,169 --> 00:27:44,055
well, I think one. Right? So, like,

772
00:27:44,535 --> 00:27:46,375
people say journalism dying, but I actually think

773
00:27:46,375 --> 00:27:47,674
it's just kinda being reinvented

774
00:27:48,775 --> 00:27:50,934
to contradict my earlier self. I'm really good

775
00:27:50,934 --> 00:27:53,095
at contradicting myself. All about, man. It's like

776
00:27:53,095 --> 00:27:55,735
having arguments with ourselves. It's the foundation of

777
00:27:55,735 --> 00:27:56,394
this podcast.

778
00:27:57,210 --> 00:27:59,710
So I I I think it's being reinvented.

779
00:28:00,250 --> 00:28:01,470
I think there's a democratization

780
00:28:01,769 --> 00:28:04,009
that's happening alongside another trend, which is, like,

781
00:28:04,009 --> 00:28:06,009
figuring out how are we gonna make sure

782
00:28:06,009 --> 00:28:07,529
that the information that we're provide like, it's

783
00:28:07,529 --> 00:28:08,730
just like a lot of people have a

784
00:28:08,730 --> 00:28:10,669
high like, everybody has a hot take nowadays

785
00:28:11,315 --> 00:28:13,095
on stuff. And so I think

786
00:28:13,394 --> 00:28:14,454
it's being reinvented,

787
00:28:14,755 --> 00:28:16,055
and I think in ways that

788
00:28:16,515 --> 00:28:19,154
folks that, like, quote, unquote, traditional journalists are

789
00:28:19,154 --> 00:28:21,555
uncomfortable with. And so I think we're seeing

790
00:28:21,555 --> 00:28:23,634
the rise of, like, social media influencers as

791
00:28:23,634 --> 00:28:25,095
being purveyors of information

792
00:28:25,394 --> 00:28:28,170
that we're trying to find reliable. And if

793
00:28:28,170 --> 00:28:29,849
you do enough digging, you'll find plenty of

794
00:28:29,849 --> 00:28:32,809
traditional journalists and, like, journalistic work from, like,

795
00:28:32,809 --> 00:28:35,390
twenty, thirty, fifty years ago that's, like, shitty.

796
00:28:35,609 --> 00:28:37,210
Like, sort of, like, we could always find

797
00:28:37,210 --> 00:28:40,009
that. Shittiness is what existed for as long

798
00:28:40,009 --> 00:28:41,615
as this is a medium as existed. Right?

799
00:28:41,615 --> 00:28:42,755
Yeah. Yeah. So,

800
00:28:43,855 --> 00:28:45,775
you can lobby the you can, like, lob

801
00:28:45,775 --> 00:28:47,555
the same kind of criticisms at

802
00:28:48,015 --> 00:28:50,195
current, like, social media influencers. Right?

803
00:28:50,575 --> 00:28:52,975
But the reality is that folks, a lot

804
00:28:52,975 --> 00:28:54,035
of folks are finding,

805
00:28:54,929 --> 00:28:56,369
their information in that way. And so it's

806
00:28:56,369 --> 00:28:57,970
like the question then becomes, we have a

807
00:28:57,970 --> 00:28:58,789
wider definition

808
00:28:59,169 --> 00:29:00,069
of what fits

809
00:29:00,450 --> 00:29:01,190
the news.

810
00:29:01,569 --> 00:29:03,809
Mhmm. If the news is defined as, like,

811
00:29:03,809 --> 00:29:05,909
a service that's gonna help you stay informed

812
00:29:06,394 --> 00:29:07,595
on a topic or not.

813
00:29:07,994 --> 00:29:10,174
And I maybe you're saying informed or misinformed.

814
00:29:10,954 --> 00:29:13,034
Maybe maybe that's maybe that's, like, the line

815
00:29:13,034 --> 00:29:15,355
of I think maybe informed, maybe it's not

816
00:29:15,355 --> 00:29:15,855
news.

817
00:29:17,754 --> 00:29:19,929
And yeah. So I I think there's that

818
00:29:19,929 --> 00:29:21,130
that's happening. So I think there's, like, a

819
00:29:21,130 --> 00:29:23,289
really lot of, like, exciting stuff that's happening

820
00:29:23,289 --> 00:29:25,369
in that way because we're also seeing people

821
00:29:25,369 --> 00:29:27,849
consume news in different ways that they haven't

822
00:29:27,849 --> 00:29:29,049
in the past. You know? Not not that

823
00:29:29,049 --> 00:29:31,049
radio hasn't existed for a long time, but

824
00:29:31,049 --> 00:29:32,190
podcasts are exploding.

825
00:29:32,734 --> 00:29:35,455
You know? You have, different multimedia formats that

826
00:29:35,455 --> 00:29:36,275
are out there.

827
00:29:36,974 --> 00:29:38,575
I'm trying to think. There's, like, one website

828
00:29:38,575 --> 00:29:39,634
that does, like, a multimedia,

829
00:29:40,974 --> 00:29:43,535
like, immersive it's like it's, like, crazy. They

830
00:29:43,535 --> 00:29:45,055
they do, like, a four d? Like, it

831
00:29:45,055 --> 00:29:46,815
squirts water in your face and stuff? Or

832
00:29:47,230 --> 00:29:48,349
No. No. It's like you go to the

833
00:29:48,349 --> 00:29:50,029
website and, like, you'll have, like, an audio

834
00:29:50,029 --> 00:29:51,950
clip will play and then a video clip.

835
00:29:51,950 --> 00:29:53,630
And then you'll, like, read the article, and

836
00:29:53,630 --> 00:29:55,250
then it'll, like, shoot you some infographics.

837
00:29:56,190 --> 00:29:57,630
I'm, like, blanking on the name of it

838
00:29:57,630 --> 00:29:59,149
now, but it'll come up again. You know?

839
00:29:59,149 --> 00:30:00,130
Yeah. Yeah.

840
00:30:01,045 --> 00:30:03,125
But it's it's kinda neat. You're seeing people

841
00:30:03,125 --> 00:30:04,744
kinda tell stories in different ways.

842
00:30:05,125 --> 00:30:06,565
I mean, we're also seeing, like, a lot

843
00:30:06,565 --> 00:30:08,265
of, like, media companies. Right?

844
00:30:08,884 --> 00:30:11,464
Places like, New York Times, Washington Post, like,

845
00:30:12,085 --> 00:30:14,025
really getting into Instagram stories.

846
00:30:14,460 --> 00:30:15,900
Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's what I was

847
00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:17,659
getting at, like, the shorts. Like, I think

848
00:30:17,659 --> 00:30:18,159
even

849
00:30:19,259 --> 00:30:21,500
what is it? Like, CNN, I think, has,

850
00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:23,179
like, a shorts thing. It can, like, if

851
00:30:23,179 --> 00:30:25,179
you scroll down far enough, you'll see there.

852
00:30:25,179 --> 00:30:27,659
Have there and then AP AP has a

853
00:30:27,659 --> 00:30:29,440
shorts. They do forty five second

854
00:30:29,934 --> 00:30:30,434
things.

855
00:30:31,535 --> 00:30:34,095
But so what you you mentioned something earlier

856
00:30:34,095 --> 00:30:36,414
about sort of the stuffiness or, like,

857
00:30:37,214 --> 00:30:37,714
traditional

858
00:30:38,654 --> 00:30:39,154
journalist

859
00:30:39,934 --> 00:30:42,355
people are in the traditional journalist journalism

860
00:30:42,734 --> 00:30:45,190
camp sort of thumbing their nose at the

861
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:46,169
current trend.

862
00:30:48,150 --> 00:30:50,470
But one of the reasons I feel like

863
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:52,950
the trend is become as pervasive as it

864
00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:54,009
is is because

865
00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:56,569
there's such a mistrust in institutions

866
00:30:57,755 --> 00:30:59,295
and especially in gatekeeping.

867
00:31:00,394 --> 00:31:01,914
And then so it almost seems like, well,

868
00:31:01,914 --> 00:31:04,235
if I've got a criticism about where things

869
00:31:04,235 --> 00:31:06,075
are going, I must be one of the

870
00:31:06,075 --> 00:31:06,575
gatekeepers.

871
00:31:09,035 --> 00:31:10,555
What what do you have to say about

872
00:31:10,555 --> 00:31:12,799
that? Because you were on, you know, you

873
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,359
like, you talked about, you went from, you

874
00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:16,519
know, Street Sense. Now you're kind of a

875
00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:19,500
gatekeeper. Like, you're putting out style guides. And

876
00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:22,299
so what are your thoughts on the gatekeeping?

877
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:22,940
I

878
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,259
I I will caveat with my own opinion

879
00:31:26,174 --> 00:31:29,154
or my own perspective is that I whereas

880
00:31:29,215 --> 00:31:31,855
in some ways, I share that mistrust of

881
00:31:31,855 --> 00:31:34,035
gatekeeping because it does like you said, it's

882
00:31:34,255 --> 00:31:36,495
the democratization of information, I think, is a

883
00:31:36,495 --> 00:31:37,154
good thing.

884
00:31:37,535 --> 00:31:39,795
But at the same time, when the primary

885
00:31:39,855 --> 00:31:40,355
source

886
00:31:40,669 --> 00:31:42,450
is more concerned about getting likes

887
00:31:42,750 --> 00:31:45,869
than about accuracy and transparency, there's a problem.

888
00:31:45,869 --> 00:31:46,929
Right? Like, so

889
00:31:47,470 --> 00:31:49,230
was there a vacuum and it got filled,

890
00:31:49,230 --> 00:31:52,190
like, almost, like, with, you know, terrorism and

891
00:31:52,190 --> 00:31:54,589
extremism? Like, there's a vacuum and then the

892
00:31:54,589 --> 00:31:56,565
biggest shit had filled it in? Or, like,

893
00:31:56,884 --> 00:31:58,884
anyways, I I'm rambling, but what are your

894
00:31:58,884 --> 00:32:00,325
thoughts on that? And I and I don't

895
00:32:00,325 --> 00:32:03,044
know if likes necessarily translate to dollars in

896
00:32:03,044 --> 00:32:05,284
your pocket. And I think when you look

897
00:32:05,365 --> 00:32:06,184
use, like,

898
00:32:06,484 --> 00:32:08,264
different social media sites,

899
00:32:08,819 --> 00:32:10,740
that money goes to the social like, the

900
00:32:10,740 --> 00:32:12,500
ads go to the social media site. Like,

901
00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:14,099
that money doesn't go into the pocket of,

902
00:32:14,099 --> 00:32:16,339
like That's true. Yeah. And so that's, like,

903
00:32:16,339 --> 00:32:17,940
a problem in itself. Right? Like, I am,

904
00:32:17,940 --> 00:32:19,319
like, producing this content,

905
00:32:19,859 --> 00:32:22,099
and somebody else is posting the article on

906
00:32:22,099 --> 00:32:24,744
their site, and they just screenshotted parts of

907
00:32:24,744 --> 00:32:26,505
the article that I pay walled. And now

908
00:32:26,505 --> 00:32:28,105
there's a whole discussion about the article I

909
00:32:28,105 --> 00:32:30,105
wrote that nobody actually read, but only saw

910
00:32:30,105 --> 00:32:32,505
the headline of. And now Facebook is profiting

911
00:32:32,505 --> 00:32:33,884
off of that. Right?

912
00:32:34,825 --> 00:32:36,505
And then and then and then it's being

913
00:32:36,505 --> 00:32:37,644
shared by this influencer

914
00:32:38,009 --> 00:32:40,890
who's using it for their brand. Right? Yeah.

915
00:32:40,890 --> 00:32:42,650
Using that to sell products in our so

916
00:32:42,650 --> 00:32:44,170
that that's, like, part of the problem that

917
00:32:44,170 --> 00:32:45,930
we haven't figured out. How are we gonna

918
00:32:45,930 --> 00:32:46,990
manage the regulation

919
00:32:47,289 --> 00:32:49,309
if there's if there needs to be regulation,

920
00:32:49,529 --> 00:32:52,015
like, around this kind of thing? So I

921
00:32:52,015 --> 00:32:53,775
think I think that's part of the issue

922
00:32:53,775 --> 00:32:54,275
here.

923
00:32:54,894 --> 00:32:56,015
You know, I will say that, you know,

924
00:32:56,015 --> 00:32:58,194
I used when I was an intel guy,

925
00:32:58,815 --> 00:33:00,815
you know, one of the hardest conversations you

926
00:33:00,815 --> 00:33:03,375
had with folks is, hey. Look out. You

927
00:33:03,375 --> 00:33:05,250
know, we're probably gonna get attacked in this

928
00:33:05,250 --> 00:33:06,690
area in the next twenty four hours. You

929
00:33:06,690 --> 00:33:07,809
know, we need to be on board or

930
00:33:07,809 --> 00:33:09,170
whatever. And they're like, how do you know

931
00:33:09,170 --> 00:33:10,390
that? And you gotta be like,

932
00:33:11,890 --> 00:33:14,070
you know, don't worry about it.

933
00:33:15,490 --> 00:33:18,130
Probably. Right? Like, that's a hard conversation. And

934
00:33:18,130 --> 00:33:18,630
journalism,

935
00:33:19,164 --> 00:33:20,845
that doesn't really happen. You know, people gotta

936
00:33:20,845 --> 00:33:22,605
tell you, you know, you gotta be you

937
00:33:22,605 --> 00:33:24,605
gotta be very clear, very transparent about how

938
00:33:24,605 --> 00:33:26,525
you do stuff. Now there are cases where

939
00:33:26,525 --> 00:33:29,805
people do, like, anonymous sources and as as

940
00:33:29,805 --> 00:33:32,144
as audiences should be, should always be skeptical

941
00:33:33,210 --> 00:33:34,970
skeptical around stuff like that. I know that

942
00:33:34,970 --> 00:33:36,809
a lot of the stuff not like, a

943
00:33:36,809 --> 00:33:38,329
lot of the reporting that they're doing now

944
00:33:38,329 --> 00:33:40,429
around, like, military and what's happening now.

945
00:33:40,809 --> 00:33:42,169
I know a lot of journalists are, you

946
00:33:42,169 --> 00:33:44,329
know, granting anonymity and stuff so that people

947
00:33:44,329 --> 00:33:46,355
can be because there's, like because, I mean,

948
00:33:46,355 --> 00:33:48,115
there's, like, a strong case for being with

949
00:33:48,115 --> 00:33:49,255
dude. And, like,

950
00:33:49,634 --> 00:33:52,115
take anonymous sources because in a situation like

951
00:33:52,595 --> 00:33:54,115
I think the current climate like, I don't

952
00:33:54,115 --> 00:33:55,075
know what it's like to work at the

953
00:33:55,075 --> 00:33:56,375
Pentagon right now for,

954
00:33:57,634 --> 00:34:00,000
a guy like Hegseth, but I can't imagine

955
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,940
it's, like, the most conducive to,

956
00:34:02,399 --> 00:34:04,079
you know I don't I can't imagine that

957
00:34:04,079 --> 00:34:05,779
they're very tolerant of people being critical

958
00:34:06,079 --> 00:34:08,239
or talking to the press. So I imagine,

959
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:09,380
like, having anonymity.

960
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:10,659
But then

961
00:34:11,155 --> 00:34:12,515
not to go down that rabbit hole whether

962
00:34:12,515 --> 00:34:13,815
or not you're gonna get polygraph.

963
00:34:14,115 --> 00:34:15,795
I don't know how that's gonna work.

964
00:34:16,675 --> 00:34:17,735
But I I,

965
00:34:19,155 --> 00:34:20,275
I I will say that,

966
00:34:21,474 --> 00:34:22,675
Yeah. I used to think when you go

967
00:34:22,755 --> 00:34:23,954
went to the Pentagon, you had to be

968
00:34:23,954 --> 00:34:26,295
lobotomized, but I don't know. Maybe they incorporate

969
00:34:27,210 --> 00:34:27,710
this.

970
00:34:28,090 --> 00:34:29,710
I don't I I mean, I I honestly

971
00:34:29,849 --> 00:34:31,449
would I would pay to just spend a

972
00:34:31,449 --> 00:34:32,590
day there to see,

973
00:34:33,530 --> 00:34:35,289
what that life is like because I I

974
00:34:35,289 --> 00:34:36,269
I can't imagine.

975
00:34:36,889 --> 00:34:38,650
It feels like it's there's a lot of

976
00:34:38,650 --> 00:34:40,574
things happening there. And Well, they've got a

977
00:34:40,574 --> 00:34:42,574
DMV, dude. So if you wanna jump the

978
00:34:42,574 --> 00:34:44,255
lines, man, you can just hit the DMV

979
00:34:44,255 --> 00:34:46,014
at the Pentagon and do some canvassing while

980
00:34:46,014 --> 00:34:46,594
you're there.

981
00:34:47,054 --> 00:34:47,635
Yeah. Right.

982
00:34:51,375 --> 00:34:52,655
But, yeah, I think I think the, you

983
00:34:52,655 --> 00:34:54,275
know, the news is being redefined.

984
00:34:55,079 --> 00:34:56,280
I think there are more people that are

985
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,400
allowed to do it, which I think is

986
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:57,900
great.

987
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:59,880
I you know, and I I have this,

988
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:01,720
like, my own theory. Right? So I think,

989
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:03,400
eventually, we're gonna get so

990
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,960
I have his own theory and it's kind

991
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,640
of like a, you know, a BS theory

992
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:08,565
in some ways, but,

993
00:35:09,045 --> 00:35:10,804
literally a BS theory in that. I think

994
00:35:10,804 --> 00:35:12,105
we're gonna become so inundated

995
00:35:12,724 --> 00:35:14,344
at a certain point with BS

996
00:35:14,724 --> 00:35:16,964
that the natural reliable sources of information will

997
00:35:16,964 --> 00:35:17,704
come to light.

998
00:35:18,484 --> 00:35:20,885
That people that have built their reputations around

999
00:35:20,885 --> 00:35:23,639
being dependable and, like, giving factual stuff, but

1000
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:25,719
that reputation is gonna carry farther. That's a

1001
00:35:25,799 --> 00:35:26,760
I think those are the things that will

1002
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,839
survive in the long term. Oh, interesting. You're

1003
00:35:28,839 --> 00:35:30,679
wrong. But I I just think that after

1004
00:35:30,679 --> 00:35:32,839
a while, like, you know, you you keep

1005
00:35:32,839 --> 00:35:34,920
getting fed bullshit for something. If you're a

1006
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,219
strong critical thinker,

1007
00:35:36,954 --> 00:35:38,954
you know, that bullshit won't stand for very

1008
00:35:38,954 --> 00:35:41,034
long. Right? Like, you just question it. And

1009
00:35:41,034 --> 00:35:42,554
then and then you'll move on. You'll find

1010
00:35:42,554 --> 00:35:44,655
something new. That's my theory.

1011
00:35:45,194 --> 00:35:46,094
I don't know

1012
00:35:46,474 --> 00:35:48,809
whether that will pan out that way. Yeah.

1013
00:35:49,050 --> 00:35:50,430
And it doesn't seem to have

1014
00:35:50,890 --> 00:35:52,030
panned out that way.

1015
00:35:52,410 --> 00:35:54,410
And it does feel like we are in

1016
00:35:54,410 --> 00:35:56,090
a time where there is plenty of bullshit

1017
00:35:56,090 --> 00:35:57,210
that's out there. I don't know from a

1018
00:35:57,210 --> 00:35:58,730
lot of these that were on this podcast,

1019
00:35:58,730 --> 00:36:00,730
but I think I've cussed at least a

1020
00:36:00,730 --> 00:36:02,329
dozen times up to this point, so you're

1021
00:36:02,329 --> 00:36:02,829
fine.

1022
00:36:03,695 --> 00:36:06,434
But, yeah, shame on you, potty mouth.

1023
00:36:07,614 --> 00:36:08,574
But here's the,

1024
00:36:09,295 --> 00:36:11,375
interesting that as you mentioned that, and I

1025
00:36:11,375 --> 00:36:13,454
think that's a very optimistic point of view,

1026
00:36:13,454 --> 00:36:15,235
and I'm hopeful that you're right.

1027
00:36:16,735 --> 00:36:17,554
But I

1028
00:36:17,930 --> 00:36:19,869
just out of pure coincidence,

1029
00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:22,510
as far as the curriculum

1030
00:36:22,809 --> 00:36:23,789
with our boys,

1031
00:36:25,210 --> 00:36:26,030
in their reading,

1032
00:36:27,289 --> 00:36:29,150
we fell upon, Animal Farm.

1033
00:36:29,795 --> 00:36:32,135
So we're, like, you know and, yeah, obviously,

1034
00:36:32,355 --> 00:36:34,695
as for those who have read it,

1035
00:36:34,994 --> 00:36:36,755
if you haven't, check it out, man. It's

1036
00:36:36,755 --> 00:36:38,914
only, like, a 40 pages. It's amazing. It

1037
00:36:38,914 --> 00:36:40,515
was written in 1956,

1038
00:36:40,515 --> 00:36:42,355
so it gives you an indication of, like,

1039
00:36:42,355 --> 00:36:44,670
what's old is new. But, yeah, the big

1040
00:36:44,670 --> 00:36:47,010
thing with the pigs is, like, the disinformation.

1041
00:36:47,309 --> 00:36:48,130
Right? Because

1042
00:36:48,510 --> 00:36:50,369
none of the other animals can read,

1043
00:36:51,389 --> 00:36:53,250
and if you just say something

1044
00:36:53,550 --> 00:36:55,250
regardless of its truthiness,

1045
00:36:56,335 --> 00:36:58,255
if you just say something enough times, people

1046
00:36:58,255 --> 00:37:00,015
just they just start believing it. You know?

1047
00:37:00,015 --> 00:37:02,655
Like, oh, that's not Snowball was a total

1048
00:37:02,655 --> 00:37:04,094
douche in the battle. If you guys don't

1049
00:37:04,094 --> 00:37:05,934
remember, like, well, I thought he was actually

1050
00:37:05,934 --> 00:37:07,614
one of the heroes. Like, no. That was

1051
00:37:07,614 --> 00:37:09,449
wrong. And, like, yeah, I guess you're right.

1052
00:37:09,449 --> 00:37:10,670
He was kind of a scumbag.

1053
00:37:11,769 --> 00:37:13,869
And then that's how it works. Right? And,

1054
00:37:14,170 --> 00:37:16,329
also, two made the mistake of looking at,

1055
00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:18,329
I think it was a little twilight zone,

1056
00:37:18,889 --> 00:37:20,809
to serve Matt. You know? That's like the

1057
00:37:20,809 --> 00:37:22,349
one guy's like, it's a cockpaw.

1058
00:37:23,644 --> 00:37:26,224
So, hopefully, that's what you're saying is correct

1059
00:37:26,284 --> 00:37:28,385
is is that between those two

1060
00:37:29,005 --> 00:37:31,644
analogies that eventually the guy who says this

1061
00:37:31,644 --> 00:37:33,244
is a cookbook and then people are looking

1062
00:37:33,244 --> 00:37:35,344
around going, holy shit. They're eating people.

1063
00:37:36,090 --> 00:37:38,250
Then they'll just start turning to that person

1064
00:37:38,250 --> 00:37:39,070
and be like,

1065
00:37:39,849 --> 00:37:41,869
hey. Can you tell us more about this

1066
00:37:42,010 --> 00:37:43,610
theory you have about it being a cookbook?

1067
00:37:43,610 --> 00:37:45,789
Because it really looks like they're eating people.

1068
00:37:46,570 --> 00:37:48,170
You know, it's interesting too. Like, one of

1069
00:37:48,170 --> 00:37:49,769
the things that kinda gives me hope is

1070
00:37:49,769 --> 00:37:51,150
I was actually at a,

1071
00:37:51,905 --> 00:37:53,984
it's the night media forum, which is kind

1072
00:37:53,984 --> 00:37:56,324
of a just like a gathering of senior

1073
00:37:56,464 --> 00:37:58,625
news executives. Just a few not a while

1074
00:37:58,625 --> 00:37:59,284
back, and,

1075
00:37:59,905 --> 00:38:00,304
former,

1076
00:38:01,664 --> 00:38:04,760
surgeon general Vivek Murthy, he he was our

1077
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,859
keynote speaker, and he talked about this trend

1078
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,880
amongst just youth, like college age kids and

1079
00:38:10,039 --> 00:38:11,260
Yeah. High schoolers.

1080
00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:13,400
There's actually this, like, new trend that's I'm

1081
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,159
trying to remember what the name of it

1082
00:38:15,159 --> 00:38:17,480
is called, but or or these folks are

1083
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,579
kinda just giving up on social media.

1084
00:38:20,275 --> 00:38:21,635
They're giving up on social media. They're giving

1085
00:38:21,635 --> 00:38:23,875
up Because he was the surgeon general that

1086
00:38:23,875 --> 00:38:25,335
warned, right, against

1087
00:38:25,715 --> 00:38:28,114
social media for children. Right? Yeah. Yeah. He

1088
00:38:28,114 --> 00:38:30,195
he does. And he he recommends, like, you

1089
00:38:30,195 --> 00:38:32,594
know, limitations around it and and all that.

1090
00:38:32,594 --> 00:38:34,355
And, yeah, I I gotta say I agree.

1091
00:38:34,355 --> 00:38:34,829
And,

1092
00:38:36,470 --> 00:38:38,269
and so this is, like, a group of

1093
00:38:38,269 --> 00:38:39,090
young folks,

1094
00:38:39,710 --> 00:38:41,489
you know, have been self organizing

1095
00:38:41,869 --> 00:38:44,210
around this movement to basically give up smartphones,

1096
00:38:44,829 --> 00:38:47,550
take up flip phones, and then instead of,

1097
00:38:47,550 --> 00:38:49,664
you know, like, engaging in all of the

1098
00:38:49,664 --> 00:38:52,465
social media crap to, like, be reading and,

1099
00:38:52,465 --> 00:38:54,945
like, and engaging deeper around stuff because they

1100
00:38:54,945 --> 00:38:57,844
started to notice that the quality of conversations

1101
00:38:58,065 --> 00:38:59,204
is just kind of tanking.

1102
00:38:59,505 --> 00:39:01,664
Yeah. I think, one of the things that

1103
00:39:01,664 --> 00:39:03,285
he brought up that I thought was really

1104
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:04,679
powerful was that,

1105
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,400
the biggest fear so there are two couple

1106
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:08,359
of things that he brought up that I

1107
00:39:08,359 --> 00:39:10,359
thought were really interesting. One of them was

1108
00:39:10,359 --> 00:39:10,859
that,

1109
00:39:11,559 --> 00:39:13,480
if you ask, you know, high school age,

1110
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:14,300
college age,

1111
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,659
kids, you know, what their biggest fear is,

1112
00:39:18,525 --> 00:39:20,444
Their biggest fears, like, when it comes to

1113
00:39:20,444 --> 00:39:20,944
the,

1114
00:39:21,565 --> 00:39:24,045
school and stuff, is being canceled by their

1115
00:39:24,045 --> 00:39:26,045
peers for saying something that they feel is

1116
00:39:26,045 --> 00:39:26,944
socially unacceptable.

1117
00:39:27,804 --> 00:39:29,804
So, like, can you imagine having that? Like,

1118
00:39:29,804 --> 00:39:31,484
I remember being in class and just saying

1119
00:39:31,484 --> 00:39:32,464
outrageous stuff

1120
00:39:32,900 --> 00:39:33,719
and then being challenged

1121
00:39:34,820 --> 00:39:37,300
via Socratic method and then coming in to

1122
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:39,559
learn how to, like, reason and logic.

1123
00:39:40,340 --> 00:39:41,719
I I think a lot of,

1124
00:39:42,579 --> 00:39:44,900
young folks these days are kind of being

1125
00:39:44,900 --> 00:39:46,199
robbed of that opportunity.

1126
00:39:46,500 --> 00:39:47,775
And And then the second thing he brought

1127
00:39:47,775 --> 00:39:49,394
up that I thought was really fascinating

1128
00:39:50,175 --> 00:39:50,675
was,

1129
00:39:51,934 --> 00:39:53,614
he said, you know, he he asked folks

1130
00:39:53,614 --> 00:39:56,114
to kinda guess what we think the demographic

1131
00:39:56,255 --> 00:39:58,574
is that says the most loneliest. You know,

1132
00:39:58,574 --> 00:40:00,759
what age group do we think? So my

1133
00:40:00,759 --> 00:40:03,019
mind automatically goes to, like, really old folks.

1134
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,519
No. It's apparently, like, high school. Yeah. The,

1135
00:40:07,639 --> 00:40:09,159
I can't believe I'm drawing a blank, but

1136
00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:11,019
he wrote the book, Anxious Generation.

1137
00:40:12,565 --> 00:40:15,684
And it's yeah. Dude, the the statistics on

1138
00:40:15,684 --> 00:40:16,985
young people right now,

1139
00:40:17,765 --> 00:40:19,925
the mental health stuff is crazy. Acting on

1140
00:40:19,925 --> 00:40:22,285
social media, it's not real life connection. Yeah.

1141
00:40:22,285 --> 00:40:22,985
You know?

1142
00:40:23,364 --> 00:40:25,125
And, you know, I've, like over the years,

1143
00:40:25,125 --> 00:40:26,965
like, as, like, an adult, right, like, I've

1144
00:40:27,650 --> 00:40:28,769
even when I was in the marines, like,

1145
00:40:28,769 --> 00:40:30,710
I I you know, like, you develop

1146
00:40:31,010 --> 00:40:33,890
over time. You're influenced by others, and you

1147
00:40:33,890 --> 00:40:36,230
think about things more critically and stuff. And

1148
00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:37,750
I worry that

1149
00:40:38,369 --> 00:40:40,150
that kind of level of engagement

1150
00:40:40,454 --> 00:40:41,434
is lost

1151
00:40:42,454 --> 00:40:44,075
in the other shorter mediums

1152
00:40:44,454 --> 00:40:45,914
that we share. Now I think,

1153
00:40:48,215 --> 00:40:49,755
there's a demand for that.

1154
00:40:50,055 --> 00:40:52,135
I think the demand comes from people. Right?

1155
00:40:52,135 --> 00:40:53,275
And so, like, I think,

1156
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:55,500
we will get to that place. I mean,

1157
00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:57,920
I I'm, like, not against, like, you know,

1158
00:40:58,140 --> 00:41:00,219
a funny cat video on TikTok or something.

1159
00:41:00,219 --> 00:41:00,880
You know?

1160
00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:03,260
But but I I do think there is

1161
00:41:03,260 --> 00:41:04,079
something valuable

1162
00:41:04,780 --> 00:41:06,140
about that, and I do think that I

1163
00:41:06,140 --> 00:41:07,739
mean, I don't know. I hope my BS

1164
00:41:07,739 --> 00:41:09,344
theory pans out eventually. Like

1165
00:41:10,864 --> 00:41:13,045
Yeah. Yeah. Not not just someone that's like,

1166
00:41:13,105 --> 00:41:15,525
that's a peanut. That's porn. Yeah.

1167
00:41:17,184 --> 00:41:19,025
No. I hope that's right. I I think

1168
00:41:19,025 --> 00:41:21,264
I think there is something to it. I

1169
00:41:21,264 --> 00:41:23,844
know within religious circle, especially,

1170
00:41:24,144 --> 00:41:26,119
you know, evangelical Christian circles,

1171
00:41:26,659 --> 00:41:28,519
there is this sense of like,

1172
00:41:30,019 --> 00:41:32,659
you know, connection and community as being a

1173
00:41:32,659 --> 00:41:33,159
real,

1174
00:41:35,299 --> 00:41:37,239
you know, a very real

1175
00:41:38,244 --> 00:41:41,204
fundamental aspect of life. Like, you just can't

1176
00:41:41,605 --> 00:41:42,085
and then,

1177
00:41:42,804 --> 00:41:44,005
too, I think in a lot of ways,

1178
00:41:44,005 --> 00:41:46,324
we're still as much as we wanna just

1179
00:41:46,324 --> 00:41:47,925
sort of forget about it, we I think

1180
00:41:47,925 --> 00:41:49,465
we really are still in

1181
00:41:49,844 --> 00:41:50,405
sort of the,

1182
00:41:52,289 --> 00:41:54,369
the recovery phase from,

1183
00:41:54,849 --> 00:41:57,429
the pandemic, man. I think that just really

1184
00:41:57,650 --> 00:41:59,590
it really fucked us in so many ways.

1185
00:41:59,730 --> 00:42:00,230
Interestingly,

1186
00:42:00,690 --> 00:42:02,050
we had a guest on the show not

1187
00:42:02,050 --> 00:42:03,349
too long ago, Matt Kaltrider.

1188
00:42:03,969 --> 00:42:07,724
A wonderful, wonderful book, Double Knot, his memoir.

1189
00:42:08,664 --> 00:42:10,744
Dude, so good if you wanna check that

1190
00:42:10,744 --> 00:42:11,244
out.

1191
00:42:11,704 --> 00:42:14,764
But, he's he's getting back in writing mode.

1192
00:42:15,464 --> 00:42:17,945
That's a quick one. It's actually, five essays

1193
00:42:17,945 --> 00:42:19,964
that he wrote. He was in Afghanistan

1194
00:42:20,824 --> 00:42:22,590
about the same time as you and I,

1195
00:42:22,750 --> 00:42:25,469
I think, if I remember correctly. Anyhow, he's,

1196
00:42:25,950 --> 00:42:27,869
amazing. He's in the area. But,

1197
00:42:29,070 --> 00:42:30,349
one of the things he says as he's

1198
00:42:30,349 --> 00:42:32,030
getting back into writing mode is when he

1199
00:42:32,030 --> 00:42:32,849
gets home,

1200
00:42:33,150 --> 00:42:34,829
he puts his phone down and grabs a

1201
00:42:34,829 --> 00:42:36,590
book. And then every time he feels the

1202
00:42:36,590 --> 00:42:38,635
need to scroll, he'll just read even if

1203
00:42:38,635 --> 00:42:40,655
it's just like a paragraph or a page.

1204
00:42:41,194 --> 00:42:42,714
And so it takes about the same amount

1205
00:42:42,714 --> 00:42:44,554
of time. And then, you know, little by

1206
00:42:44,554 --> 00:42:46,174
little, he finishes the book.

1207
00:42:46,795 --> 00:42:47,295
Yeah.

1208
00:42:47,594 --> 00:42:49,194
I mean, it was something similar. I,

1209
00:42:49,835 --> 00:42:52,050
I come home and I, like, reach like,

1210
00:42:52,050 --> 00:42:53,410
it's weird. I think I have to make

1211
00:42:53,410 --> 00:42:55,010
the habit change. I'll reach for, like, my

1212
00:42:55,010 --> 00:42:57,170
TikTok. Like, I wanna see cats, you know,

1213
00:42:57,170 --> 00:42:59,430
and I wanna see Yeah. Just, like, stupid

1214
00:42:59,650 --> 00:43:01,329
stupid shit. I wanna sound like, you know,

1215
00:43:01,329 --> 00:43:03,730
like, I'm into the America's funniest home videos

1216
00:43:03,730 --> 00:43:04,230
kinda.

1217
00:43:04,530 --> 00:43:06,450
Yeah. Yeah. I wanna see people falling over

1218
00:43:06,450 --> 00:43:06,950
and

1219
00:43:07,454 --> 00:43:09,375
and then, and then I'm like, you know,

1220
00:43:09,375 --> 00:43:12,015
I'll grab my, I'm using this Kindle alternative

1221
00:43:12,015 --> 00:43:13,454
called Kobo. I like it because you can

1222
00:43:13,454 --> 00:43:15,614
write on it. Okay. Cool. It's I think

1223
00:43:15,614 --> 00:43:18,655
it's less expensive. But, anyways, I I, I'll

1224
00:43:18,655 --> 00:43:20,595
pick that up, my ereader, and

1225
00:43:21,309 --> 00:43:22,989
I'll start reading. And, man, I,

1226
00:43:23,949 --> 00:43:25,549
yeah, it's way better. I read this I

1227
00:43:25,549 --> 00:43:26,609
don't totally random.

1228
00:43:27,230 --> 00:43:29,230
This highly recommend this book I just read

1229
00:43:29,309 --> 00:43:31,489
finished called Frankenstein in Baghdad.

1230
00:43:32,429 --> 00:43:35,730
Ah, love the title. Yeah. It's like, basically,

1231
00:43:37,885 --> 00:43:40,525
basically, suicide bombs and v bids are going

1232
00:43:40,525 --> 00:43:42,385
off, like, every day. And then one day,

1233
00:43:42,444 --> 00:43:43,904
this v bid goes off.

1234
00:43:44,525 --> 00:43:45,664
Body parts everywhere.

1235
00:43:46,125 --> 00:43:48,125
Some random dude comes out. You know, he's,

1236
00:43:48,125 --> 00:43:50,045
like, drinking at the local tea shop or

1237
00:43:50,045 --> 00:43:52,199
whatever, and he feels bad. So he's like,

1238
00:43:52,519 --> 00:43:54,440
you know, these are not humans because they're

1239
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,760
just random body parts. So he takes them

1240
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,359
home, and he's like, I'm gonna sew them

1241
00:43:58,359 --> 00:43:59,880
into one body, and then we can bury

1242
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:01,800
the body. That way, like, it recognized. At

1243
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:02,780
least it looks human.

1244
00:44:03,605 --> 00:44:05,364
So he sews it together, and, eventually, it

1245
00:44:05,364 --> 00:44:06,424
disappears on him.

1246
00:44:07,204 --> 00:44:08,885
And the the thing that disappears on him

1247
00:44:08,885 --> 00:44:09,625
is a Frankenstein.

1248
00:44:10,244 --> 00:44:12,184
It's, like, really incredible. Highly recommend.

1249
00:44:12,565 --> 00:44:14,885
And it's fiction, I take it. Right? Fiction.

1250
00:44:14,885 --> 00:44:16,404
Yes. You know, this didn't happen in real

1251
00:44:16,404 --> 00:44:18,940
life. So he sort of accidentally creates a

1252
00:44:18,940 --> 00:44:20,079
Frankenstein monster?

1253
00:44:20,380 --> 00:44:22,940
Yeah. And it's it's a really great translator

1254
00:44:22,940 --> 00:44:24,160
out there, Jonathan Wright.

1255
00:44:25,340 --> 00:44:28,140
He translates from Arabic into English. I don't

1256
00:44:28,140 --> 00:44:30,380
know the guy. But I appreciate his work

1257
00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:31,599
because I feel like the translations,

1258
00:44:32,914 --> 00:44:34,755
really do the original work justice even though

1259
00:44:34,755 --> 00:44:36,375
I can't read Arabic. Yeah.

1260
00:44:36,675 --> 00:44:38,114
You you can feel that it comes from

1261
00:44:38,114 --> 00:44:40,614
a different language, but it's kind of refreshing

1262
00:44:40,675 --> 00:44:41,414
to see

1263
00:44:41,954 --> 00:44:43,574
a different take on

1264
00:44:44,195 --> 00:44:44,695
war

1265
00:44:45,234 --> 00:44:48,170
from, like, a different, you know, lens. Right?

1266
00:44:48,170 --> 00:44:49,869
Like, I think oftentimes

1267
00:44:50,170 --> 00:44:52,329
anything that I read about war or military

1268
00:44:52,329 --> 00:44:53,630
is usually written from

1269
00:44:53,929 --> 00:44:54,589
the perspective

1270
00:44:55,530 --> 00:44:56,489
of, like, the American

1271
00:44:56,889 --> 00:44:58,809
or the American perspective of, like, us doing

1272
00:44:58,809 --> 00:44:59,309
it.

1273
00:45:00,984 --> 00:45:03,164
And this is kinda interesting because it's, like,

1274
00:45:03,464 --> 00:45:04,925
perspective of, like, the local,

1275
00:45:05,945 --> 00:45:08,284
host nation folks experiencing it.

1276
00:45:08,905 --> 00:45:11,005
And so, like, American troops

1277
00:45:11,864 --> 00:45:14,105
are, like, kind of interspersed throughout. They're not

1278
00:45:14,105 --> 00:45:15,304
the main part of the narrative, and it's

1279
00:45:15,304 --> 00:45:16,585
kind of interesting to see where they are

1280
00:45:16,585 --> 00:45:18,239
in the background. And then on the other

1281
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:19,440
hand too, like, you kinda get what they're

1282
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,360
talking about. Right? It's kinda funny. Yeah. It's

1283
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:22,900
just interesting. Like, it's like

1284
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:25,760
a VVV going off is, like, how it's,

1285
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,440
like, raining, you know, like, on a day.

1286
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:28,800
So it's, like, it's not even like a

1287
00:45:29,864 --> 00:45:31,545
it's, like, dealt with in such a subtle,

1288
00:45:31,545 --> 00:45:33,224
like, background thing. Like, oh, yeah. It's just,

1289
00:45:33,224 --> 00:45:35,405
like, noise in the background, like, birds chirping,

1290
00:45:35,704 --> 00:45:36,844
the bit goes off.

1291
00:45:37,304 --> 00:45:38,985
You know? And it's kind of kind of

1292
00:45:38,985 --> 00:45:39,485
fast.

1293
00:45:40,025 --> 00:45:42,025
Yeah. Like, oh, I get get a little,

1294
00:45:42,344 --> 00:45:44,125
little little, raining today.

1295
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,760
That's really fascinating. I guess that comes full

1296
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:48,260
circle,

1297
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,579
as we're talking about sort of

1298
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:51,460
representation,

1299
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:53,380
and perspective

1300
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:54,660
because

1301
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:55,780
in

1302
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:57,619
a similar way,

1303
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,780
you know, like, someone who,

1304
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:02,255
is you know, if if,

1305
00:46:02,835 --> 00:46:03,335
information

1306
00:46:03,715 --> 00:46:06,215
outlet, we'll call it, is trying to

1307
00:46:06,515 --> 00:46:07,954
cover a story about,

1308
00:46:10,035 --> 00:46:12,515
you know, a refugee crisis in, like, I

1309
00:46:12,515 --> 00:46:13,894
don't know, South America,

1310
00:46:14,515 --> 00:46:16,760
it'd be really great to find

1311
00:46:17,219 --> 00:46:17,960
a journalist

1312
00:46:18,659 --> 00:46:19,960
who is from

1313
00:46:20,340 --> 00:46:21,719
South America whose

1314
00:46:22,019 --> 00:46:24,260
family might have been refugees. Right? Like and

1315
00:46:24,260 --> 00:46:24,760
so

1316
00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:27,239
you can really sort of get,

1317
00:46:27,539 --> 00:46:28,519
like you said,

1318
00:46:28,875 --> 00:46:30,414
that level of perspective

1319
00:46:30,954 --> 00:46:33,295
that isn't just sort of from the outside

1320
00:46:33,355 --> 00:46:35,934
looking in that's conveying facts, but is actually

1321
00:46:36,074 --> 00:46:38,255
able to provide a very real,

1322
00:46:38,875 --> 00:46:40,815
almost visceral sort of context.

1323
00:46:41,739 --> 00:46:43,340
Yeah. And and it makes sense too. Like,

1324
00:46:43,340 --> 00:46:44,940
there's, like, a lot of different angles. Right?

1325
00:46:44,940 --> 00:46:47,019
Like, it also like, when I meet another

1326
00:46:47,019 --> 00:46:48,619
marine, there doesn't need to be, like, all

1327
00:46:48,619 --> 00:46:49,920
this extra, you know,

1328
00:46:50,700 --> 00:46:52,539
talk about just, like you know, like, there's,

1329
00:46:52,539 --> 00:46:54,220
like, always this frivolous bullshit you have to

1330
00:46:54,220 --> 00:46:55,739
go to when you're talking to somebody about

1331
00:46:55,739 --> 00:46:57,035
your experience. I got a ton of my

1332
00:46:57,035 --> 00:46:58,974
military experience, but I'm talking to a nonmilitary

1333
00:46:59,434 --> 00:47:01,595
person who's been isolated from the veterans community.

1334
00:47:01,595 --> 00:47:03,595
There's no anything about us. Like, there's a

1335
00:47:03,595 --> 00:47:04,815
lot of, like, hand holding

1336
00:47:05,355 --> 00:47:08,015
and, like, hesitance and, like, I gotta, like,

1337
00:47:08,315 --> 00:47:09,994
you know, like, to do all this, like,

1338
00:47:09,994 --> 00:47:11,295
pretense and explanation

1339
00:47:12,059 --> 00:47:13,579
around stuff. I remember once, like, talking to

1340
00:47:13,579 --> 00:47:14,960
somebody about something they're like,

1341
00:47:16,860 --> 00:47:19,420
they're like, what's a flap jacket? Like, at

1342
00:47:19,420 --> 00:47:20,460
the end of the story, like, what's a

1343
00:47:20,460 --> 00:47:21,660
flap? I'm like, wait. You don't know what

1344
00:47:21,660 --> 00:47:22,960
a flap jacket is? Like,

1345
00:47:23,380 --> 00:47:23,880
we

1346
00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:25,579
gotta go all the way back to this,

1347
00:47:25,579 --> 00:47:27,264
you know, and then they're like, you know,

1348
00:47:27,264 --> 00:47:28,945
I've heard talking to somebody else once and

1349
00:47:28,945 --> 00:47:31,025
and then and talking about whatever units I

1350
00:47:31,025 --> 00:47:32,724
was in or whatever, and they're like, oh,

1351
00:47:32,784 --> 00:47:33,684
that's so cool.

1352
00:47:34,945 --> 00:47:35,844
What's a unit?

1353
00:47:36,625 --> 00:47:38,784
Yeah. I'm like, shit. You know, and you

1354
00:47:38,784 --> 00:47:40,545
forget that there's, like, this gulf of Yeah.

1355
00:47:40,625 --> 00:47:42,389
Like, because there's a common language

1356
00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:44,969
on veterans. And so, like, this exists

1357
00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:47,670
all over the place. Right? Like, because there's,

1358
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:50,069
like, lots of different kinds of communities and

1359
00:47:50,069 --> 00:47:51,210
stuff. You know, it's like

1360
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:53,190
a a person who's, like, a hockey player

1361
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:55,605
going to explain hockey to somebody that's Yeah.

1362
00:47:56,085 --> 00:47:57,844
Like, oh, for checking. Like, I don't you

1363
00:47:57,844 --> 00:47:59,125
don't have to explain what a for check

1364
00:47:59,125 --> 00:48:00,804
is. Yeah. It's like, why we wanna like,

1365
00:48:00,804 --> 00:48:02,244
when if you hire a sports reporter, you

1366
00:48:02,244 --> 00:48:04,324
probably want somebody that's, like, done sports before.

1367
00:48:04,324 --> 00:48:05,925
Like, it kinda makes sense. So I think

1368
00:48:06,085 --> 00:48:08,264
that you just said done sports. You may.

1369
00:48:08,885 --> 00:48:10,859
You know? Say again? As I love that

1370
00:48:10,859 --> 00:48:12,319
you just said done sports.

1371
00:48:12,699 --> 00:48:14,079
Yeah. Alright. Right.

1372
00:48:17,019 --> 00:48:19,500
Well, dude, I know you're I'm really cutting

1373
00:48:19,500 --> 00:48:21,519
into your afternoon, man. I really appreciate,

1374
00:48:22,724 --> 00:48:24,885
you spending the time to talk. I mean,

1375
00:48:24,885 --> 00:48:27,204
we could we'll probably literally be here for

1376
00:48:27,204 --> 00:48:28,644
hours, which we need to get a beer

1377
00:48:28,644 --> 00:48:30,265
and then just do this maybe

1378
00:48:30,724 --> 00:48:31,224
off

1379
00:48:31,605 --> 00:48:33,845
mic or whatever. I'll I'll sneak a microphone

1380
00:48:33,845 --> 00:48:34,664
in or something.

1381
00:48:35,525 --> 00:48:36,664
But I didn't wanna

1382
00:48:37,769 --> 00:48:39,690
miss the opportunity to talk to you about

1383
00:48:39,690 --> 00:48:42,190
your guys' executive leadership program,

1384
00:48:43,050 --> 00:48:44,510
because I think that's really fascinating.

1385
00:48:45,769 --> 00:48:48,410
It seems like it's a an avenue or

1386
00:48:48,410 --> 00:48:49,710
a, a resource,

1387
00:48:51,050 --> 00:48:51,869
that most

1388
00:48:53,735 --> 00:48:56,075
of these of, you know, sort of niche,

1389
00:48:57,414 --> 00:48:57,914
organizations

1390
00:48:58,295 --> 00:49:00,454
offer. Could you talk a little bit about

1391
00:49:00,454 --> 00:49:01,815
that and, like, what it what it all

1392
00:49:01,815 --> 00:49:03,035
means and what it does?

1393
00:49:03,735 --> 00:49:06,375
Yeah. So, we have an executive leadership program.

1394
00:49:06,375 --> 00:49:08,400
It's it's almost it takes almost place over

1395
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:09,840
here for one year. So we have, like,

1396
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,940
four like, a four day in person,

1397
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:14,099
sort

1398
00:49:15,679 --> 00:49:17,840
of, four day in person I was gonna

1399
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,280
use the term boot camp, but that is

1400
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,300
a wrong word to use for this crowd.

1401
00:49:21,394 --> 00:49:21,974
A four

1402
00:49:22,434 --> 00:49:24,594
day business orientation session, right, where you kinda

1403
00:49:24,594 --> 00:49:26,914
get to know each other. And the program

1404
00:49:26,914 --> 00:49:29,734
is mostly built for journalism and media executives,

1405
00:49:30,194 --> 00:49:32,434
folks that are mid to senior career that

1406
00:49:32,434 --> 00:49:34,114
are trying to kinda get a leg up

1407
00:49:34,114 --> 00:49:34,934
on their gamble.

1408
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:37,670
And there's all sorts of stuff that we

1409
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:39,289
go over during that one week,

1410
00:49:39,829 --> 00:49:42,150
including, like, how do you negotiate a better

1411
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:42,650
salary,

1412
00:49:43,829 --> 00:49:45,369
better conditions for your job,

1413
00:49:45,989 --> 00:49:48,070
you know, talk about, like, some management issues

1414
00:49:48,070 --> 00:49:49,849
that you have, learn more about your personality,

1415
00:49:49,989 --> 00:49:51,405
who you are as a person. There's, like,

1416
00:49:51,405 --> 00:49:53,885
this cultural element too because many of us,

1417
00:49:53,885 --> 00:49:55,664
because we're the Asian American Journal Association,

1418
00:49:56,204 --> 00:49:57,805
tend to be, you know, Asian American business

1419
00:49:57,805 --> 00:49:59,425
of color and go pursue the program.

1420
00:49:59,724 --> 00:50:01,485
It's not the only folks that participate, but

1421
00:50:01,485 --> 00:50:02,465
there is an element,

1422
00:50:02,765 --> 00:50:05,719
to the programming where what we found was

1423
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:07,880
that, you know, in this program, for instance,

1424
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:08,539
for me,

1425
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,119
it was, like, the only place in my

1426
00:50:10,119 --> 00:50:12,859
professional career where I've been around other multiracial

1427
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:14,059
Asian people.

1428
00:50:14,599 --> 00:50:16,920
But and it was kind of refreshing to

1429
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,085
hear that other people had similar stories to

1430
00:50:19,085 --> 00:50:21,404
share about just, like, their professional experiences and,

1431
00:50:21,404 --> 00:50:22,944
like, how they've come up.

1432
00:50:23,964 --> 00:50:25,804
And so that that was, like, interesting. So

1433
00:50:25,804 --> 00:50:27,964
that's, like, a great sort of part of

1434
00:50:27,964 --> 00:50:30,045
the program. And then, folks will then meet

1435
00:50:30,045 --> 00:50:32,944
virtually. They meet virtually. They do coaching sessions.

1436
00:50:33,005 --> 00:50:35,179
They meet with, like, different mentors that we

1437
00:50:35,179 --> 00:50:36,699
pair them up with. We have different kinds

1438
00:50:36,699 --> 00:50:38,699
of case studies and activities. So if you

1439
00:50:38,699 --> 00:50:39,760
think of, like, TDGs

1440
00:50:40,619 --> 00:50:42,460
Yeah. That we do in the marines, we

1441
00:50:42,460 --> 00:50:43,279
have, like, TDGs

1442
00:50:43,579 --> 00:50:44,319
but for

1443
00:50:44,859 --> 00:50:47,039
journalism and media exec people.

1444
00:50:47,765 --> 00:50:49,765
And then and then and then everybody kind

1445
00:50:49,765 --> 00:50:51,385
of does their final,

1446
00:50:52,805 --> 00:50:53,864
the final sessions.

1447
00:50:54,565 --> 00:50:56,905
We do, like, broad leadership kind of training,

1448
00:50:57,525 --> 00:50:59,525
at our annual convention. And this next year,

1449
00:50:59,525 --> 00:51:01,045
it's gonna be or this year, it's gonna

1450
00:51:01,045 --> 00:51:01,785
be in Seattle.

1451
00:51:02,340 --> 00:51:03,860
But it's it's a really great program. You

1452
00:51:03,860 --> 00:51:04,519
know, it's,

1453
00:51:06,340 --> 00:51:07,400
journalism executives,

1454
00:51:07,860 --> 00:51:10,260
folks working in the media across, like, the

1455
00:51:10,260 --> 00:51:11,160
kind of communications

1456
00:51:11,619 --> 00:51:12,119
field.

1457
00:51:13,300 --> 00:51:15,539
And what I found that was really great

1458
00:51:15,539 --> 00:51:16,599
about the program is

1459
00:51:17,034 --> 00:51:17,534
the,

1460
00:51:17,994 --> 00:51:20,494
the cohort. Because you you build you you

1461
00:51:20,635 --> 00:51:21,375
you yeah. Basically,

1462
00:51:21,755 --> 00:51:22,735
we help cater

1463
00:51:23,355 --> 00:51:25,054
and make a brain trust.

1464
00:51:25,355 --> 00:51:27,114
And so, like, I did the program in

1465
00:51:27,114 --> 00:51:28,255
2023,

1466
00:51:28,929 --> 00:51:30,469
which isn't very long ago.

1467
00:51:31,010 --> 00:51:33,090
And I still have an open, like, text

1468
00:51:33,090 --> 00:51:35,570
chain going with the folks I was within

1469
00:51:35,570 --> 00:51:37,329
the program with. And before I even moved

1470
00:51:37,329 --> 00:51:38,150
to this job,

1471
00:51:38,690 --> 00:51:40,289
activated the text chain and was like, okay.

1472
00:51:40,289 --> 00:51:42,150
I wanna go into negotiating my salary.

1473
00:51:42,610 --> 00:51:43,010
Let's

1474
00:51:43,474 --> 00:51:45,554
help me out, guys. Yeah. Yeah. So I

1475
00:51:45,554 --> 00:51:47,275
think wherever you can develop a network is

1476
00:51:47,474 --> 00:51:49,574
and of of supporters is great.

1477
00:51:50,275 --> 00:51:51,635
But, yeah, that's that's a little bit about

1478
00:51:51,635 --> 00:51:53,015
the program that we have here.

1479
00:51:53,954 --> 00:51:56,434
Dude, that's really cool. Yeah. That that's really

1480
00:51:56,434 --> 00:51:57,715
interesting. I think about,

1481
00:51:58,849 --> 00:52:00,210
you know, one of the things is we

1482
00:52:00,210 --> 00:52:03,170
were speaking of cohorts and and leaving we're

1483
00:52:03,170 --> 00:52:04,070
leaving AU.

1484
00:52:05,650 --> 00:52:06,869
It was just like,

1485
00:52:07,650 --> 00:52:08,230
you know,

1486
00:52:08,530 --> 00:52:10,449
the the faculty did. I thought, you know,

1487
00:52:10,449 --> 00:52:11,650
as much as they could do in a

1488
00:52:11,650 --> 00:52:12,710
in a really,

1489
00:52:13,574 --> 00:52:15,034
a very caring and

1490
00:52:15,734 --> 00:52:18,295
and thoughtful and engaging way. But in a

1491
00:52:18,295 --> 00:52:19,734
lot of ways, when we left AU, I

1492
00:52:19,734 --> 00:52:21,434
was like, alright. What do I do now?

1493
00:52:21,494 --> 00:52:22,775
And that was it. Yeah. There was no,

1494
00:52:22,775 --> 00:52:24,074
like, laugh. Alright,

1495
00:52:24,695 --> 00:52:25,530
dude. Good luck.

1496
00:52:26,650 --> 00:52:28,570
Yeah. It's it's it's tough, I think. You

1497
00:52:28,570 --> 00:52:30,570
know? And I I don't know. It's funny

1498
00:52:30,570 --> 00:52:31,929
too because, like, I think there are, like,

1499
00:52:31,929 --> 00:52:33,390
some other vets that I know,

1500
00:52:34,250 --> 00:52:35,929
that I, like, you know, wasn't arranged with,

1501
00:52:35,929 --> 00:52:37,070
served with. And,

1502
00:52:38,484 --> 00:52:39,925
like, the other day, I, like, texted a

1503
00:52:39,925 --> 00:52:41,364
buddy, Mike. So I was going through I'm

1504
00:52:41,364 --> 00:52:43,465
I'm writing and I'm still working my novel.

1505
00:52:44,164 --> 00:52:45,764
Me too. I actually hit you up later

1506
00:52:45,764 --> 00:52:47,684
on for helping me edit this thing because

1507
00:52:47,684 --> 00:52:49,625
I'm all I'm almost done now.

1508
00:52:51,059 --> 00:52:51,559
And,

1509
00:52:52,260 --> 00:52:53,940
I hit him up because I found I've

1510
00:52:54,019 --> 00:52:55,539
the guy had, like, you know, I kept

1511
00:52:55,539 --> 00:52:57,239
all these notes, like, my old notebooks.

1512
00:52:57,619 --> 00:52:59,300
Just and I had, like, a quote book.

1513
00:52:59,300 --> 00:53:01,059
And in my quote book, I found him

1514
00:53:01,219 --> 00:53:02,980
I I quoted him saying, like, oh, I'll

1515
00:53:02,980 --> 00:53:04,795
see you in a fork night. And I

1516
00:53:04,795 --> 00:53:05,994
was like, a fork night? What do you

1517
00:53:05,994 --> 00:53:07,195
mean? He's like, four nights. You know, like,

1518
00:53:07,195 --> 00:53:08,974
four problems with a fork. And, like, that's

1519
00:53:09,914 --> 00:53:10,894
that's not a phrase.

1520
00:53:11,434 --> 00:53:12,715
But that made the quote book, you know,

1521
00:53:12,715 --> 00:53:13,755
and there are a lot of other things,

1522
00:53:13,755 --> 00:53:15,755
but I probably can't share, here in this

1523
00:53:15,755 --> 00:53:17,434
forum. They were in the quote book. And

1524
00:53:17,434 --> 00:53:19,079
so I texted him. They're like, oh, shit.

1525
00:53:19,079 --> 00:53:20,840
Been, like, six years since I class texted

1526
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:21,420
you, man.

1527
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,460
Dude, that's great. I love that's amazing.

1528
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:28,700
I see how the fuck

1529
00:53:31,094 --> 00:53:32,855
I eat. Alright, brother, man. On that note,

1530
00:53:32,855 --> 00:53:34,775
dude, let's just that that's a great that's

1531
00:53:34,775 --> 00:53:36,554
a microphone drop right there.

1532
00:53:36,934 --> 00:53:38,775
But, dude, thank you so much for coming

1533
00:53:38,775 --> 00:53:39,275
on,

1534
00:53:40,614 --> 00:53:41,114
and

1535
00:53:41,414 --> 00:53:42,954
for sharing your experiences.

1536
00:53:43,894 --> 00:53:46,054
Best of luck, obviously, to everything that you

1537
00:53:46,054 --> 00:53:48,590
got going on. And, man, I'm really hoping

1538
00:53:48,829 --> 00:53:50,130
I can't wait to see,

1539
00:53:51,230 --> 00:53:53,730
the the survivor of the bullshit wars

1540
00:53:54,829 --> 00:53:56,690
lead us to a better place.

1541
00:53:57,630 --> 00:53:59,390
Who knows? Or maybe we'll just be getting,

1542
00:53:59,390 --> 00:54:01,230
like we're just all gonna get our information

1543
00:54:01,230 --> 00:54:03,045
from, like, robots or something. I don't know.

1544
00:54:03,204 --> 00:54:05,125
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It will just be, like,

1545
00:54:05,125 --> 00:54:07,284
on a like, an assembly line where we're

1546
00:54:07,284 --> 00:54:10,324
just going, that's corn. That's a peanut. That's

1547
00:54:10,324 --> 00:54:11,304
that's diarrhea.

1548
00:54:12,324 --> 00:54:13,704
Have you been watching severance?

1549
00:54:14,405 --> 00:54:14,905
Dude,

1550
00:54:15,284 --> 00:54:17,510
love. K. We got to watch Severance later

1551
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:19,989
on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. It's amazing. So

1552
00:54:19,989 --> 00:54:21,909
good. I was actually thinking about it, Tim.

1553
00:54:21,909 --> 00:54:23,989
Like, oh, is it Thursday night? Thursday night.

1554
00:54:23,989 --> 00:54:26,309
Yeah. Sometimes I get it early. Alright, dude.

1555
00:54:26,309 --> 00:54:27,929
Well, dude, have a great afternoon,

1556
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:30,329
and, yeah, let's get that beer.

1557
00:54:30,714 --> 00:54:33,214
Okay. Sounds good. Alright. Bye. Yeah. Bye.

1558
00:54:33,835 --> 00:54:35,914
Scuttlebutt is a production of the Marine Corps

1559
00:54:35,914 --> 00:54:36,414
Association.

1560
00:54:36,954 --> 00:54:39,594
You have heard the voices or contributions from

1561
00:54:39,594 --> 00:54:41,855
major Vic Ruble, USMC retired,

1562
00:54:42,155 --> 00:54:45,319
Nancy Lichtman, William Trudeng, and our guest.

1563
00:54:45,699 --> 00:54:48,179
Ty Frasier is the editor, sound engineer, and

1564
00:54:48,179 --> 00:54:49,159
technical producer.

1565
00:54:49,460 --> 00:54:51,859
The Marine Corps Association is not an agency

1566
00:54:51,859 --> 00:54:52,920
of the US government.

1567
00:54:53,299 --> 00:54:55,473
The opinions expressed in this episode are the

1568
00:54:55,553 --> 00:54:57,953
personal views of the participants and do not

1569
00:54:57,953 --> 00:55:00,113
reflect the official position of the United States

1570
00:55:00,113 --> 00:55:02,753
Marine Corps, the Department of Defense, or the

1571
00:55:02,753 --> 00:55:03,813
Marine Corps Association.