1 00:00:00,719 --> 00:00:04,000 Exciting things are happening at Becker's Healthcare. Stay 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,240 ahead of industry trends with the new Becker's 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,500 CFO plus Revenue Cycle podcast, 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,119 your go to source for insights from top 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,224 healthcare finance leaders. Tune in wherever you get 6 00:00:14,224 --> 00:00:14,964 your podcasts. 7 00:00:15,904 --> 00:00:18,464 And don't miss the tenth annual Health IT 8 00:00:18,464 --> 00:00:22,155 plus Digital Health plus RCM conference, happening September 9 00:00:22,155 --> 00:00:24,464 30 to 10/03/2025 10 00:00:24,464 --> 00:00:25,204 in Chicago. 11 00:00:25,664 --> 00:00:27,125 Join thousands of executives, 12 00:00:27,469 --> 00:00:30,429 engage with industry leaders, and explore the future 13 00:00:30,429 --> 00:00:31,570 of health care innovation. 14 00:00:32,270 --> 00:00:36,770 Learn more about our upcoming events at beckershospitalreview.com. 15 00:00:36,829 --> 00:00:37,570 See you there. 16 00:00:38,750 --> 00:00:40,829 This is Laura Dirdle with the Becker's Healthcare 17 00:00:40,829 --> 00:00:42,835 podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by 18 00:00:42,835 --> 00:00:45,714 doctor Chen Kai Kao, chief medical information officer 19 00:00:45,714 --> 00:00:48,114 at UChicago Medicine. Kai, it's a pleasure to 20 00:00:48,114 --> 00:00:49,574 have you on the podcast today. 21 00:00:50,674 --> 00:00:52,434 Thank you so much, Laura. It was nice 22 00:00:52,434 --> 00:00:54,054 meeting you, you know, virtually. 23 00:00:54,594 --> 00:00:56,134 So thanks for having me. 24 00:00:56,859 --> 00:00:59,420 Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I I'm excited for our 25 00:00:59,420 --> 00:01:01,259 conversation because I know you're doing some really 26 00:01:01,259 --> 00:01:04,219 cool things at UChicago Medicine, and certainly, we'll 27 00:01:04,219 --> 00:01:06,299 look forward to learning more about those, when 28 00:01:06,299 --> 00:01:08,379 you speak at our health IT digital health 29 00:01:08,379 --> 00:01:10,575 revenue cycle event later this year. But 30 00:01:11,055 --> 00:01:13,295 for our conversation here, before we begin, I 31 00:01:13,295 --> 00:01:14,655 was wondering, could you tell us a little 32 00:01:14,655 --> 00:01:16,894 bit more about UChicago Medicine and what makes 33 00:01:16,894 --> 00:01:17,555 it unique? 34 00:01:18,814 --> 00:01:21,694 Of course. So the University of Chicago Medicine 35 00:01:21,694 --> 00:01:24,674 health system is, you know, in Illinois, obviously, 36 00:01:26,049 --> 00:01:28,450 centered in the Hyde Park area in Chicago, 37 00:01:28,450 --> 00:01:29,670 but we also have 38 00:01:30,450 --> 00:01:32,150 satellite hospitals at 39 00:01:32,930 --> 00:01:33,430 Southwest 40 00:01:33,890 --> 00:01:36,069 Suburbs and also Northwest Indiana. 41 00:01:36,450 --> 00:01:38,229 We are a five hospital system, 42 00:01:38,575 --> 00:01:40,034 about 1,300 beds, 43 00:01:40,655 --> 00:01:42,275 and spread again across 44 00:01:42,655 --> 00:01:43,314 the State 45 00:01:44,015 --> 00:01:45,155 of Illinois and Indiana. 46 00:01:46,094 --> 00:01:47,935 I think I would say one thing unique 47 00:01:47,935 --> 00:01:49,474 in our institution is, 48 00:01:50,540 --> 00:01:52,379 like many others, we are very committed to 49 00:01:52,379 --> 00:01:55,040 patient care, but we do serve a relatively 50 00:01:55,180 --> 00:01:55,680 underserved 51 00:01:56,060 --> 00:01:58,619 population here. So there was one New York 52 00:01:58,619 --> 00:01:59,840 Times article citing 53 00:02:00,379 --> 00:02:00,959 the expectancy 54 00:02:02,219 --> 00:02:03,920 in the zip codes that we serve 55 00:02:04,299 --> 00:02:04,799 nearby 56 00:02:05,474 --> 00:02:07,875 was thirty years less than the zip codes 57 00:02:07,875 --> 00:02:10,034 in Downtown Chicago. So you speak to a 58 00:02:10,034 --> 00:02:10,534 lot 59 00:02:11,474 --> 00:02:12,854 of the resource differences, 60 00:02:14,115 --> 00:02:16,775 the digital literacy, digital equity differences 61 00:02:17,155 --> 00:02:18,534 and just all in all, 62 00:02:18,835 --> 00:02:19,495 I think 63 00:02:19,939 --> 00:02:20,439 signified 64 00:02:20,819 --> 00:02:22,819 the the challenges we we should face when 65 00:02:22,819 --> 00:02:25,400 we, you know, try to serve this community. 66 00:02:29,460 --> 00:02:31,139 Got it. That's helpful to know. And, you 67 00:02:31,139 --> 00:02:33,620 know, really an important population you serve as 68 00:02:33,620 --> 00:02:34,280 you mentioned, 69 00:02:34,925 --> 00:02:36,605 those who may not have access to care 70 00:02:36,605 --> 00:02:38,224 otherwise, especially, and then, 71 00:02:38,685 --> 00:02:41,344 truly, just a great academic health system, 72 00:02:41,724 --> 00:02:43,344 resource for the Hyde Park community. 73 00:02:43,724 --> 00:02:45,645 Now I'm curious. When you look back in 74 00:02:45,645 --> 00:02:47,085 the last year or so, what are the 75 00:02:47,085 --> 00:02:49,025 accomplishments that you're most proud of? 76 00:02:50,379 --> 00:02:50,879 Yeah. 77 00:02:51,180 --> 00:02:52,939 I think over the years, we we have, 78 00:02:52,939 --> 00:02:55,180 you know, have I think done a few 79 00:02:55,180 --> 00:02:56,699 things I think, you know, we feel very 80 00:02:56,699 --> 00:02:57,519 proud of. 81 00:02:58,060 --> 00:03:00,459 In my portfolio, I would say one thing 82 00:03:00,459 --> 00:03:01,280 that's relevant 83 00:03:01,580 --> 00:03:03,580 to what I just mentioned about serving the 84 00:03:03,580 --> 00:03:04,879 community, you 85 00:03:05,405 --> 00:03:07,164 know, in our area will be a hospital 86 00:03:07,164 --> 00:03:07,745 home program. 87 00:03:08,284 --> 00:03:09,025 So it's 88 00:03:09,724 --> 00:03:12,205 it's basically a program providing acute hospital level 89 00:03:12,205 --> 00:03:13,745 care in the patient's home. 90 00:03:14,444 --> 00:03:16,064 And we supply, obviously, 91 00:03:16,604 --> 00:03:19,344 you know, staff and resources like medications, 92 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,840 meals, etcetera to the patient's home. We can 93 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:23,979 do imaging and 94 00:03:25,159 --> 00:03:27,740 EKGs and other studies at home as well. 95 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,879 And but like I mentioned, I think the 96 00:03:29,879 --> 00:03:32,280 geography that we serve posed a lot of 97 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,364 challenges both from the patient's readiness to receive 98 00:03:35,364 --> 00:03:36,664 the type of services 99 00:03:37,044 --> 00:03:39,204 and also the recruitment for nurses who is 100 00:03:39,204 --> 00:03:41,444 willing to travel into these areas. But we've 101 00:03:41,444 --> 00:03:43,284 been fortunate to have a very strong team 102 00:03:43,284 --> 00:03:43,784 where 103 00:03:44,245 --> 00:03:45,305 we are really eager 104 00:03:45,604 --> 00:03:47,224 to serve our patients. We 105 00:03:48,250 --> 00:03:49,549 reach out to them passionately 106 00:03:49,849 --> 00:03:52,409 and introducing the program. And I'm proud to 107 00:03:52,409 --> 00:03:54,009 say that all the patients go through the 108 00:03:54,009 --> 00:03:56,889 program is very happy with the program. They 109 00:03:56,889 --> 00:03:58,729 really feel like this allowed them to be 110 00:03:58,729 --> 00:04:01,294 able to recover in their own home, you 111 00:04:01,294 --> 00:04:03,715 know, while, you know, really just enjoy the, 112 00:04:03,935 --> 00:04:05,775 you know, all the benefit being being at 113 00:04:05,775 --> 00:04:08,735 home, surrounded by, you know, your, loved ones 114 00:04:08,735 --> 00:04:10,335 and also be able to do the stuff 115 00:04:10,335 --> 00:04:12,335 they usually do. You know, watch the TV 116 00:04:12,335 --> 00:04:13,935 show you always watch, read the books they 117 00:04:13,935 --> 00:04:16,730 usually do while you're receiving all the care 118 00:04:16,730 --> 00:04:19,290 that's equivalent to the inpatient level care. And 119 00:04:19,290 --> 00:04:21,050 we are seeing, you know, so huge patient 120 00:04:21,050 --> 00:04:21,550 satisfaction, 121 00:04:22,410 --> 00:04:24,269 a lower readmission rate, 122 00:04:24,730 --> 00:04:26,990 and that's just, you know, overall very fulfilling. 123 00:04:28,064 --> 00:04:30,625 There's also a couple of other informatics related 124 00:04:30,625 --> 00:04:31,125 projects, 125 00:04:31,584 --> 00:04:32,485 that we implemented. 126 00:04:32,944 --> 00:04:35,365 One thing we'll highlight is called auto diagnosis. 127 00:04:35,824 --> 00:04:38,384 This is a project actually spearheaded by one 128 00:04:38,384 --> 00:04:39,204 of our physician 129 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,279 builder, Doctor. Medcel Ocelli, really sort of building 130 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:43,779 these 131 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,680 auto diagnosis within the node templates to help 132 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,879 reduce physician documentation burden. I mean, as we 133 00:04:50,879 --> 00:04:51,860 all get recognized, 134 00:04:52,604 --> 00:04:53,985 the documentation is a huge 135 00:04:54,365 --> 00:04:56,764 burden for the physician, not necessarily what we 136 00:04:56,764 --> 00:04:58,464 signed up for medical school for, 137 00:04:59,245 --> 00:05:00,544 but obviously it's 138 00:05:02,125 --> 00:05:03,805 an important task that we have to do 139 00:05:03,805 --> 00:05:04,544 every day. 140 00:05:04,860 --> 00:05:07,259 So the the project is basically allowing us 141 00:05:07,259 --> 00:05:09,259 to be able to help physician capture a 142 00:05:09,259 --> 00:05:10,399 company made diagnosis 143 00:05:11,019 --> 00:05:12,639 directly within their note templates 144 00:05:13,019 --> 00:05:15,180 and in the meantime reducing the core inquiries 145 00:05:15,180 --> 00:05:16,634 that people will be getting down the road. 146 00:05:16,714 --> 00:05:18,475 So it really helped reduce the burden and 147 00:05:18,475 --> 00:05:20,495 actually helped to make our notes better. 148 00:05:21,035 --> 00:05:22,895 So we since they have published 149 00:05:23,355 --> 00:05:25,214 the work, we actually soon to have, 150 00:05:25,675 --> 00:05:28,074 additional publications on this work coming up as 151 00:05:28,074 --> 00:05:28,574 well. 152 00:05:29,009 --> 00:05:30,449 We have shared that in a couple of 153 00:05:30,449 --> 00:05:31,829 different epic conferences, 154 00:05:32,769 --> 00:05:34,849 and actually was highlighted, I think, in one 155 00:05:34,849 --> 00:05:37,649 of the Becker newsletter before. And we have 156 00:05:37,649 --> 00:05:39,329 been working with some of the other institution 157 00:05:39,329 --> 00:05:41,349 who are interested in implementing the same, 158 00:05:43,095 --> 00:05:44,795 same sort of technology in their 159 00:05:45,254 --> 00:05:46,475 system as well. 160 00:05:47,495 --> 00:05:48,634 Last but not least, 161 00:05:49,254 --> 00:05:51,415 so clinical decision support is a big chunk 162 00:05:51,415 --> 00:05:53,975 of my portfolio. So we've been using decision 163 00:05:53,975 --> 00:05:55,275 support to help capture 164 00:05:56,669 --> 00:05:58,129 some of the stewardship 165 00:05:59,389 --> 00:06:01,949 requirements. So for example, last year there was 166 00:06:01,949 --> 00:06:03,649 a major blood culture shortage 167 00:06:04,669 --> 00:06:07,149 nationwide. So we're able to use DGN support 168 00:06:07,149 --> 00:06:08,050 to help reduce 169 00:06:08,795 --> 00:06:11,535 the blood culture bottle usage very significantly. 170 00:06:12,395 --> 00:06:14,634 And now we are spending to do more 171 00:06:14,634 --> 00:06:16,795 for daily labs and any other things to 172 00:06:16,795 --> 00:06:19,774 reduce these unnecessary labs, which will be important 173 00:06:19,915 --> 00:06:22,235 to solve to reduce the cost for the 174 00:06:22,235 --> 00:06:22,735 hospital. 175 00:06:23,180 --> 00:06:24,080 Also in the meantime, 176 00:06:24,699 --> 00:06:27,259 it's also reducing unnecessary blood draws or reduced 177 00:06:27,259 --> 00:06:30,399 ultraglionic anemia and obviously patient experience 178 00:06:30,860 --> 00:06:33,740 will be better without these additional plastics as 179 00:06:33,740 --> 00:06:34,240 well. 180 00:06:34,540 --> 00:06:36,394 So these are things I would just you 181 00:06:36,394 --> 00:06:38,555 know, maybe call out particularly, but there's really 182 00:06:38,555 --> 00:06:39,615 a lot going on, 183 00:06:40,634 --> 00:06:41,455 right now. 184 00:06:43,035 --> 00:06:44,795 That's great to hear. And, you know, really 185 00:06:44,795 --> 00:06:45,615 cool to, 186 00:06:46,154 --> 00:06:48,875 have the ability to leverage technology in ways 187 00:06:48,875 --> 00:06:51,000 that have a meaningful impact on patient care 188 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,920 as well as the workflows on the clinical 189 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,639 side. I I know reducing the burden on, 190 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,139 clinicians, doctors, and nurses especially, 191 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,939 is truly a mission for so many organizations 192 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:01,740 overall. 193 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,680 So that those are both great examples to 194 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,254 hear about. I'm curious, looking ahead over the 195 00:07:07,254 --> 00:07:08,935 next twelve months or so, where do you 196 00:07:08,935 --> 00:07:10,875 see some of the big biggest growth opportunities 197 00:07:10,935 --> 00:07:11,995 for you and your teams? 198 00:07:13,574 --> 00:07:16,714 Yeah. So, with the joint partnership with, 199 00:07:19,139 --> 00:07:22,439 IT, marketing and informatics and data analytics, 200 00:07:22,819 --> 00:07:24,500 we formed what we call the Center for 201 00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:25,399 Digital Transformation. 202 00:07:26,339 --> 00:07:27,240 This is a center 203 00:07:28,899 --> 00:07:29,639 we established 204 00:07:30,175 --> 00:07:31,634 and to really help us 205 00:07:31,935 --> 00:07:33,775 adapt to the a lot of the new 206 00:07:33,775 --> 00:07:34,275 trend 207 00:07:36,415 --> 00:07:38,495 in the healthcare right now. So obviously lots 208 00:07:38,495 --> 00:07:40,574 of work about digital transformation about how we 209 00:07:40,574 --> 00:07:41,955 actually deploy this digital 210 00:07:42,819 --> 00:07:44,199 health and AI technology 211 00:07:44,580 --> 00:07:47,459 in the clinical care and really improve both 212 00:07:47,459 --> 00:07:48,839 the provider patient experience 213 00:07:49,620 --> 00:07:52,100 and improve the efficiency of the health system. 214 00:07:52,100 --> 00:07:54,339 So there's been a lot of initiatives sort 215 00:07:54,339 --> 00:07:56,180 of under the umbrella for this, 216 00:07:56,580 --> 00:07:57,800 what we call the CDP, 217 00:07:58,585 --> 00:07:59,964 Center for Digital Transformation. 218 00:08:00,264 --> 00:08:02,425 And we're also looking at how do we 219 00:08:02,425 --> 00:08:03,964 review the roadmap 220 00:08:04,665 --> 00:08:06,824 of the digital tools we are thinking about 221 00:08:06,824 --> 00:08:08,665 that can help bridge the gap and the 222 00:08:08,665 --> 00:08:10,699 pinpoint that we have in the system. We 223 00:08:10,699 --> 00:08:12,319 are looking at establishing 224 00:08:12,939 --> 00:08:15,040 AI governance for the increasing 225 00:08:15,500 --> 00:08:17,819 number of AI usage, right, almost in every 226 00:08:17,819 --> 00:08:20,060 industry. We're also looking at how we do 227 00:08:20,060 --> 00:08:21,980 a better job in terms of intaking some 228 00:08:21,980 --> 00:08:22,800 of these solutions. 229 00:08:23,485 --> 00:08:24,384 There's always 230 00:08:24,764 --> 00:08:26,845 lots of DG Health startups out there and 231 00:08:26,845 --> 00:08:28,685 they probably download a number in the last 232 00:08:28,685 --> 00:08:30,764 few years. So how do we making sure 233 00:08:30,764 --> 00:08:32,625 we have a process where we can 234 00:08:34,044 --> 00:08:36,544 broadly taking those in and in the meantime 235 00:08:36,845 --> 00:08:39,120 be able to evaluate them fairly and 236 00:08:39,839 --> 00:08:40,980 really factor into 237 00:08:41,759 --> 00:08:43,860 decisions about what's the best 238 00:08:44,639 --> 00:08:46,480 really to help solve the problems that we 239 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,720 have in our health systems, what's the best 240 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,879 model to work with the vendor to co 241 00:08:50,879 --> 00:08:51,379 develop 242 00:08:51,759 --> 00:08:53,674 some of these products, because there there's a 243 00:08:53,674 --> 00:08:55,514 lot of new technology and none of them 244 00:08:55,514 --> 00:08:57,834 are mature yet. In the meantime, we also 245 00:08:57,834 --> 00:08:58,334 have 246 00:08:59,115 --> 00:09:01,595 some homegrown resources that we can build things 247 00:09:01,595 --> 00:09:04,254 as well. So thinking about how we build, 248 00:09:04,475 --> 00:09:06,330 when do we build, when do we buy 249 00:09:06,410 --> 00:09:07,769 is also the other thing we want to 250 00:09:07,769 --> 00:09:10,029 sort of factor into this new process of 251 00:09:11,049 --> 00:09:12,269 that innovation intake. 252 00:09:12,730 --> 00:09:14,649 So that's I think that's a really exciting 253 00:09:14,649 --> 00:09:17,450 opportunity for our team to think about how 254 00:09:17,450 --> 00:09:20,110 we can help institution prioritize these opportunities 255 00:09:20,490 --> 00:09:22,464 and really help bridge the gap and make 256 00:09:22,464 --> 00:09:24,964 a true impact, on clinical care. 257 00:09:27,585 --> 00:09:29,105 I love that. I I think it's so 258 00:09:29,105 --> 00:09:31,105 critical, as you mentioned, to have, you know, 259 00:09:31,105 --> 00:09:33,845 the right evaluation process to bring in technologies 260 00:09:33,904 --> 00:09:35,664 because there are so much exciting things out 261 00:09:35,664 --> 00:09:36,565 there and new 262 00:09:36,919 --> 00:09:38,940 possibilities, especially with AI, 263 00:09:39,639 --> 00:09:42,199 and automation. But, you know, not everything is 264 00:09:42,199 --> 00:09:44,919 gonna be beneficial. And so being able to 265 00:09:44,919 --> 00:09:46,539 stay on track and really understand, 266 00:09:47,079 --> 00:09:48,379 what makes the most sense 267 00:09:48,759 --> 00:09:49,579 is so important. 268 00:09:49,894 --> 00:09:51,975 I'm curious. You mentioned, you know, getting some 269 00:09:51,975 --> 00:09:54,235 of the the governance processes in place, 270 00:09:54,695 --> 00:09:57,095 especially for AI use. Could you talk a 271 00:09:57,095 --> 00:09:58,934 little bit more about that and what those 272 00:09:58,934 --> 00:10:01,274 conversations have been like at UChicago Medicine? 273 00:10:01,654 --> 00:10:03,735 Yeah. So that's a great question regarding the 274 00:10:03,735 --> 00:10:06,399 AI governance. So maybe to start with, you 275 00:10:06,399 --> 00:10:08,820 know, thinking about why we need that. So, 276 00:10:08,879 --> 00:10:10,879 right, there's a lot of AI companies out 277 00:10:10,879 --> 00:10:12,720 there. And almost like when I go to 278 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,539 a conference, it's like almost every company have 279 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,365 AI tagged in their sort of product description. 280 00:10:19,225 --> 00:10:21,965 It's almost as if this is something that's 281 00:10:22,745 --> 00:10:24,524 universally used right now. 282 00:10:24,904 --> 00:10:25,404 But 283 00:10:25,785 --> 00:10:27,785 when we look at these AI solutions, first 284 00:10:27,785 --> 00:10:30,345 is, is it really addressing a critical problem 285 00:10:30,345 --> 00:10:32,125 that we have? And so secondly, 286 00:10:32,460 --> 00:10:34,540 is that problem really need to be solved 287 00:10:34,540 --> 00:10:36,700 by AI? So that will be an important 288 00:10:36,700 --> 00:10:38,220 piece that we need to tease out when 289 00:10:38,220 --> 00:10:40,480 we think about the intake, think about 290 00:10:41,420 --> 00:10:43,980 evaluating these solutions. But after we sort of 291 00:10:43,980 --> 00:10:45,660 decide, all right, there is a true pain 292 00:10:45,660 --> 00:10:47,845 point and problem we're trying to solve And 293 00:10:47,845 --> 00:10:49,284 we do need a solution in a place. 294 00:10:49,284 --> 00:10:50,884 And AI seem to be a potentially a 295 00:10:50,884 --> 00:10:51,384 good 296 00:10:51,924 --> 00:10:54,565 solution to solve the problem. We still would 297 00:10:54,565 --> 00:10:56,804 like to take a very thoughtful process in 298 00:10:56,804 --> 00:10:59,524 terms of validating is AI really delivering what 299 00:10:59,524 --> 00:11:02,740 it's supposed to do. So accuracy, completeness, right, 300 00:11:02,740 --> 00:11:04,440 all these type of evaluation about 301 00:11:05,059 --> 00:11:07,639 the effectiveness of AI. There's also a lot 302 00:11:07,779 --> 00:11:08,759 of risk assessments, 303 00:11:10,419 --> 00:11:13,000 especially nowadays with a lot of cyber 304 00:11:13,464 --> 00:11:14,284 security risk. 305 00:11:15,065 --> 00:11:17,945 So making sure we are reviewing this AI 306 00:11:17,945 --> 00:11:20,284 in a fair way to adjust assist their 307 00:11:20,345 --> 00:11:21,964 to assess their risk level 308 00:11:22,345 --> 00:11:24,264 based on whether the use of AI is 309 00:11:24,264 --> 00:11:27,544 susceptible, not susceptible and high risk versus low 310 00:11:27,544 --> 00:11:28,044 risk. 311 00:11:28,850 --> 00:11:30,610 And also in the meantime making sure they 312 00:11:30,610 --> 00:11:32,549 meet our security, privacy and 313 00:11:32,929 --> 00:11:35,409 asset standards are sort of an important piece 314 00:11:35,409 --> 00:11:37,570 in the intake of process as well. And 315 00:11:37,570 --> 00:11:39,490 last but not least, let's say something really 316 00:11:39,490 --> 00:11:40,230 works well 317 00:11:40,565 --> 00:11:42,725 in past all the risk assessments that we 318 00:11:42,725 --> 00:11:44,404 do, we still want to have a process 319 00:11:44,404 --> 00:11:47,065 to continue to monitor this AI moving forward 320 00:11:47,125 --> 00:11:48,745 to making sure they still perform 321 00:11:50,084 --> 00:11:51,445 as the same way we thought it would 322 00:11:51,445 --> 00:11:52,500 be in the beginning. 323 00:11:53,059 --> 00:11:55,539 Health system is constantly changing. So all these 324 00:11:55,539 --> 00:11:58,820 changes regardless of spending the new units, building 325 00:11:58,820 --> 00:11:59,639 a new hospital, 326 00:12:00,500 --> 00:12:04,120 adding additional outpatient site, we all potentially can 327 00:12:04,980 --> 00:12:05,480 change 328 00:12:06,580 --> 00:12:08,504 how AI model works. We want to be 329 00:12:08,504 --> 00:12:09,945 able to have some light of sight into 330 00:12:09,945 --> 00:12:11,865 that too. So these are the things we 331 00:12:11,865 --> 00:12:14,985 thought about having a strong AI governance. And 332 00:12:14,985 --> 00:12:15,485 again, 333 00:12:15,865 --> 00:12:17,625 the people who will be overseeing the AI 334 00:12:17,625 --> 00:12:19,085 governance will be multidisciplinary. 335 00:12:19,705 --> 00:12:22,180 So know, people with, you know, data science, 336 00:12:22,180 --> 00:12:25,000 you know, analytics backgrounds, informatics, ITs, 337 00:12:25,379 --> 00:12:27,860 and, you know, on security, privacy, and other 338 00:12:27,860 --> 00:12:30,040 stakeholders will also be involved as well. 339 00:12:32,694 --> 00:12:34,534 Got it. That's helpful to to know. Thank 340 00:12:34,534 --> 00:12:35,815 you so much for digging a little bit 341 00:12:35,815 --> 00:12:37,894 deeper in there. Now it really seems like 342 00:12:37,894 --> 00:12:39,654 a lot of opportunities out there, a lot 343 00:12:39,654 --> 00:12:41,574 of cool things that are happening, but I 344 00:12:41,574 --> 00:12:44,134 can imagine there are challenges as well. What 345 00:12:44,134 --> 00:12:46,294 are some of those challenges or roadblocks that 346 00:12:46,294 --> 00:12:46,954 you're anticipating 347 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:48,220 in the 348 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:49,740 coming year or so? 349 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,240 Yeah. We are taking a very thoughtful way 350 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:54,700 when we deploy this technology. 351 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:55,480 So, 352 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,920 you know, first, like we talk about, the 353 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,080 patient community that we serve. Right? It's not 354 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:02,460 exactly the most digitally, 355 00:13:03,544 --> 00:13:04,845 savvy population. 356 00:13:05,144 --> 00:13:06,904 So making sure every time we roll out 357 00:13:06,904 --> 00:13:07,404 something, 358 00:13:07,865 --> 00:13:08,365 we'll 359 00:13:08,825 --> 00:13:10,445 always have the digital equity 360 00:13:12,264 --> 00:13:13,784 things in mind that we want to make 361 00:13:13,784 --> 00:13:16,125 sure the things we deploy are benefiting 362 00:13:16,504 --> 00:13:17,644 all the patient population, 363 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,320 maybe not all through the same venue, but 364 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,500 always making sure there's a way to engage, 365 00:13:22,879 --> 00:13:24,960 making sure there's a way to help them 366 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:25,460 navigate 367 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,000 and benefit from all the new solution we 368 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,639 deploy throughout the health systems. So I think 369 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:31,139 that 370 00:13:32,964 --> 00:13:35,544 all the work around digital equity 371 00:13:35,924 --> 00:13:36,745 and try to 372 00:13:37,365 --> 00:13:38,745 overcome all the challenges 373 00:13:39,764 --> 00:13:41,764 from digital device, something I think we have 374 00:13:41,764 --> 00:13:44,644 seen since the pandemic and also something we're 375 00:13:44,644 --> 00:13:46,664 still compelled to continue to improve 376 00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:48,339 through our processes. 377 00:13:49,199 --> 00:13:51,539 And now with AI, right, there's even more 378 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:53,779 thing to think about around 379 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:55,940 the around like the biases, 380 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,059 based on different gender, race, populations, 381 00:14:02,955 --> 00:14:05,615 etcetera, like how does AI use 382 00:14:06,154 --> 00:14:07,375 being properly governed 383 00:14:07,675 --> 00:14:09,434 to making sure that we are free of 384 00:14:09,434 --> 00:14:10,254 these biases 385 00:14:10,634 --> 00:14:12,875 or ethical concerns? It will be the other 386 00:14:12,875 --> 00:14:15,355 challenge we need to constantly test out and 387 00:14:15,355 --> 00:14:17,455 just be mindful of in our processes. 388 00:14:18,029 --> 00:14:19,710 So I would say I wouldn't say that's 389 00:14:19,710 --> 00:14:22,509 necessarily a challenge. Instead, I think these are 390 00:14:22,509 --> 00:14:24,990 all good questions that we have been solving 391 00:14:24,990 --> 00:14:26,990 over the years before you even have this 392 00:14:26,990 --> 00:14:27,490 technology. 393 00:14:28,110 --> 00:14:30,610 But really with all the tools in mind, 394 00:14:30,815 --> 00:14:32,495 how can we even use this tool in 395 00:14:32,495 --> 00:14:35,054 the right way to actually mitigate some of 396 00:14:35,054 --> 00:14:37,214 these gaps and make things better, not the 397 00:14:37,214 --> 00:14:39,054 other way around? It's just something we need 398 00:14:39,054 --> 00:14:41,454 to constantly be careful about and margin when 399 00:14:41,454 --> 00:14:42,434 we march forward. 400 00:14:46,379 --> 00:14:48,139 Got it. That's helpful to know. And and 401 00:14:48,139 --> 00:14:48,639 certainly, 402 00:14:49,019 --> 00:14:50,779 as you can imagine oh, I know a 403 00:14:50,779 --> 00:14:52,860 lot of goes into trying to figure out 404 00:14:52,860 --> 00:14:55,340 those AI models and, how you can do 405 00:14:55,340 --> 00:14:56,835 that in an equitable way, 406 00:14:57,394 --> 00:14:59,955 especially given how quickly the technology is evolving 407 00:14:59,955 --> 00:15:00,615 and changing. 408 00:15:02,355 --> 00:15:04,595 Yeah. Exactly. I mean, it's it's, 409 00:15:05,075 --> 00:15:07,475 rapid moving world right now. So, 410 00:15:08,355 --> 00:15:09,654 it's, again, both 411 00:15:10,340 --> 00:15:12,519 a challenge, but in the meantime, any excitement. 412 00:15:12,820 --> 00:15:14,660 I feel actually very fortunate to, 413 00:15:15,460 --> 00:15:17,779 live in this era where it's witnessed, like, 414 00:15:17,779 --> 00:15:21,139 all the Internet growth and now AI growth, 415 00:15:21,139 --> 00:15:22,820 and it's just gonna change a lot of 416 00:15:22,820 --> 00:15:24,519 things, which is super exciting. 417 00:15:26,034 --> 00:15:28,914 Absolutely. That's fantastic to hear. It is a 418 00:15:28,914 --> 00:15:30,274 great time to be in health care for 419 00:15:30,274 --> 00:15:33,315 sure. Now I'm curious from your perspective, given 420 00:15:33,315 --> 00:15:34,674 some of the, big, 421 00:15:35,154 --> 00:15:37,315 things that we're excited about as well as, 422 00:15:37,315 --> 00:15:39,240 you know, challenges that we just mentioned, 423 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:41,000 What is the number one thing that you're 424 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,480 doing right now to set UChicago Medicine up 425 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:44,620 for long term success? 426 00:15:45,799 --> 00:15:47,720 Yeah. I will talk about one project I'm 427 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,879 working on that's actually related to what we 428 00:15:49,879 --> 00:15:52,299 talk about. So we talk a lot about 429 00:15:52,535 --> 00:15:54,455 the use of AI is growing and there's 430 00:15:54,455 --> 00:15:57,495 more companies, there's more use cases here and 431 00:15:57,495 --> 00:15:59,894 there that's coming up as we speak. And 432 00:15:59,894 --> 00:16:01,654 we also talk about I mean, there's a 433 00:16:01,654 --> 00:16:04,215 lot of saying around people with the AI 434 00:16:04,215 --> 00:16:04,875 may replace 435 00:16:05,429 --> 00:16:06,950 the people who don't know how to use 436 00:16:06,950 --> 00:16:08,389 AI. And maybe in the future, there will 437 00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:11,210 be, you know, even more, AI and automation, 438 00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:13,589 right, in in the work. So I think, 439 00:16:13,589 --> 00:16:15,350 absolutely, what we want to do is making 440 00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:17,190 sure we elevate the AI literacy in our 441 00:16:17,190 --> 00:16:19,110 institution. Right? We want to train people to 442 00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:20,629 know how to make the best use of 443 00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:21,129 AI. 444 00:16:21,884 --> 00:16:24,685 AI is not perfect. So training them to 445 00:16:24,685 --> 00:16:25,185 understand 446 00:16:26,764 --> 00:16:29,565 what's the posting counts, what's the limitation, what 447 00:16:29,565 --> 00:16:31,185 does it mean by AI hallucinates. 448 00:16:32,045 --> 00:16:33,805 And but in the meantime with all of 449 00:16:33,805 --> 00:16:36,365 that, being able to use leveraging AI as 450 00:16:36,365 --> 00:16:39,899 most most likely your inexperienced intern. Someone is 451 00:16:39,899 --> 00:16:42,059 on your team. It's almost like your digital 452 00:16:42,059 --> 00:16:44,220 worker, but who is inexperienced, who is new 453 00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:45,580 to the team. So how do you train 454 00:16:45,580 --> 00:16:47,259 the AI to actually work with you to 455 00:16:47,259 --> 00:16:48,960 actually get things done more efficiently? 456 00:16:49,820 --> 00:16:51,259 That that will be sort of the goal. 457 00:16:51,259 --> 00:16:52,455 We we hoping that we, 458 00:16:53,495 --> 00:16:56,134 convey to our sort of colleagues. So one 459 00:16:56,134 --> 00:16:57,835 thing I'm working on is actually building 460 00:16:58,455 --> 00:16:58,955 up 461 00:16:59,575 --> 00:17:01,975 generative AI platform that will be HIPAA compliant 462 00:17:01,975 --> 00:17:02,634 and secure 463 00:17:03,014 --> 00:17:05,789 for internal use, which will allow us, meaning 464 00:17:05,789 --> 00:17:06,769 our staff 465 00:17:07,230 --> 00:17:09,150 and health care provider being able to upload 466 00:17:09,150 --> 00:17:09,650 certain 467 00:17:11,230 --> 00:17:12,610 information about PHEIs 468 00:17:12,990 --> 00:17:14,930 and be able to use that to 469 00:17:15,390 --> 00:17:17,009 do things, for example, like 470 00:17:18,494 --> 00:17:20,575 drafting some of the messages that we are 471 00:17:20,575 --> 00:17:22,335 about to send out in different formats, in 472 00:17:22,335 --> 00:17:23,875 different languages, in different 473 00:17:24,414 --> 00:17:27,535 type of literacy level, which allowed them to 474 00:17:27,535 --> 00:17:29,954 help improve some of this patient communication. 475 00:17:30,414 --> 00:17:32,095 Or for example, we are developing some of 476 00:17:32,095 --> 00:17:34,720 the modules to help drafting denial letters of 477 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:35,220 appeals 478 00:17:35,679 --> 00:17:38,480 or for example answering some questions based on 479 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:39,940 our policies and procedures. 480 00:17:40,319 --> 00:17:42,720 So while we are standing that platform up 481 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:43,859 hopefully in the next 482 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,339 few months, it's really coming up soon, 483 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,339 we also want to pair that with 484 00:17:48,865 --> 00:17:49,605 staff communication, 485 00:17:49,984 --> 00:17:52,625 education about how you should use AI, right? 486 00:17:52,625 --> 00:17:53,444 How to prompt, 487 00:17:53,984 --> 00:17:55,984 what's the AI governance we've been talking about 488 00:17:55,984 --> 00:17:58,544 so far? And when you have questions, where 489 00:17:58,544 --> 00:18:00,464 do you reach out? And how do you 490 00:18:00,464 --> 00:18:02,244 use the tool better to your 491 00:18:03,349 --> 00:18:06,009 for your purposes to to boost your efficiency 492 00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:08,470 in every area. So that's something I think 493 00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:10,150 really exciting, and I think I'm gonna spend 494 00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:11,830 quite some time really to help stand it 495 00:18:11,830 --> 00:18:14,470 up and thinking about creating different use cases 496 00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:14,970 and, 497 00:18:15,684 --> 00:18:17,525 and training people to to make use of 498 00:18:17,525 --> 00:18:19,045 it. But what we do, I think it's 499 00:18:19,045 --> 00:18:20,025 gonna be really, 500 00:18:20,565 --> 00:18:22,565 improving a lot of efficiency issues that we 501 00:18:22,565 --> 00:18:25,365 have and really allowing people to really do 502 00:18:25,365 --> 00:18:27,365 things that are probably a license. Right? It's 503 00:18:27,365 --> 00:18:29,125 like you let AI to do a lot 504 00:18:29,125 --> 00:18:30,184 of these repetitive 505 00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:33,049 or something that's, you know, less, 506 00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:34,970 less challenging 507 00:18:35,349 --> 00:18:37,589 per se in terms of the complexity or 508 00:18:37,589 --> 00:18:38,089 originality. 509 00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:40,630 But, you know, reserving all your energy on 510 00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:43,190 something that really requires all these, you know, 511 00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:43,690 things, 512 00:18:44,069 --> 00:18:45,670 and the AI just help you out to 513 00:18:45,670 --> 00:18:48,095 save time. So, that's something I think really 514 00:18:48,095 --> 00:18:50,414 exciting, that I'm really working on right now 515 00:18:50,414 --> 00:18:52,674 that I think really would set our institution, 516 00:18:53,454 --> 00:18:54,755 at a really good start 517 00:18:55,134 --> 00:18:57,714 as we continue to, spend and, 518 00:18:58,255 --> 00:18:59,875 deploy additional AI solutions. 519 00:19:02,769 --> 00:19:04,289 That makes a lot of sense. You know, 520 00:19:04,289 --> 00:19:06,950 it's really, helpful to understand from a leadership 521 00:19:07,089 --> 00:19:08,150 context and perspective, 522 00:19:08,769 --> 00:19:10,849 how you're thinking about these things and really, 523 00:19:10,849 --> 00:19:13,490 really putting yourself in a strong position to 524 00:19:13,490 --> 00:19:14,470 continue to, 525 00:19:15,445 --> 00:19:17,125 advance this technology and bring it forward in 526 00:19:17,125 --> 00:19:19,045 a meaningful way. Kai, thank you so much 527 00:19:19,045 --> 00:19:20,565 for joining us on the podcast today. This 528 00:19:20,565 --> 00:19:22,325 has been such a fun conversation, and I 529 00:19:22,325 --> 00:19:24,184 look forward to connecting with you again soon. 530 00:19:24,884 --> 00:19:27,625 Thank you so much, Laura. And likewise here, 531 00:19:27,845 --> 00:19:29,785 meeting you, and, have a good day.