1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,319 This is Laura Dierda with the Becker's Healthcare 2 00:00:02,319 --> 00:00:04,480 podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,200 Sandra Powell Elliott, vice president and chief innovation 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,559 and commercialization officer at Hackensack Meridian Health. Sandra, 5 00:00:10,559 --> 00:00:11,599 it's a pleasure to have you on the 6 00:00:11,599 --> 00:00:13,599 podcast today. Oh, it's a pleasure to be 7 00:00:13,599 --> 00:00:14,339 here, Laura. 8 00:00:14,894 --> 00:00:16,975 Now I'm looking forward to our conversation because 9 00:00:16,975 --> 00:00:18,734 I know you're doing some really innovative things 10 00:00:18,734 --> 00:00:22,414 at Hackensack Meridian and certainly have, an eye 11 00:00:22,414 --> 00:00:24,654 towards innovation for the future. But before we 12 00:00:24,654 --> 00:00:26,335 dive in, I'm wondering, can you tell us 13 00:00:26,335 --> 00:00:27,855 a little bit more about the health system 14 00:00:27,855 --> 00:00:28,994 and what makes it unique? 15 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,200 Sure. So the health system is an 18 16 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,460 hospital network that's based in New Jersey. 17 00:00:35,079 --> 00:00:37,159 We cover about half of the state. 18 00:00:37,719 --> 00:00:40,199 We not only have 18 hospitals, but we 19 00:00:40,199 --> 00:00:42,520 have a medical school. We have a center 20 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,859 for translational research. We have 21 00:00:45,385 --> 00:00:47,784 virtually every element of the continuum you can 22 00:00:47,784 --> 00:00:51,164 imagine from home care and hospice to DME 23 00:00:51,385 --> 00:00:52,685 to physician practices, 24 00:00:53,865 --> 00:00:56,984 surgery centers, etcetera. So I think one of 25 00:00:56,984 --> 00:00:58,664 the things that does make I I'm gonna 26 00:00:58,664 --> 00:01:00,630 highlight two things, I think, that make us 27 00:01:00,870 --> 00:01:04,469 extremely unique is, first and foremost, that continuum 28 00:01:04,469 --> 00:01:06,170 because we can really understand 29 00:01:07,189 --> 00:01:08,489 the connection points, 30 00:01:09,030 --> 00:01:11,109 in a care continuum and how we as 31 00:01:11,109 --> 00:01:12,569 an organization can 32 00:01:12,954 --> 00:01:14,234 really strive to, 33 00:01:14,555 --> 00:01:16,575 make changes at every element 34 00:01:17,114 --> 00:01:19,915 to really facilitate a transformation of care and 35 00:01:19,915 --> 00:01:21,834 services for the future for our patients. So 36 00:01:21,834 --> 00:01:23,194 I think that's one of the things that's 37 00:01:23,194 --> 00:01:24,814 extremely unique about us. 38 00:01:25,994 --> 00:01:28,119 The second thing is I think that, 39 00:01:28,500 --> 00:01:30,659 our Center for Discovery and Innovation, which is 40 00:01:30,659 --> 00:01:31,399 our translational, 41 00:01:32,259 --> 00:01:32,759 research, 42 00:01:33,379 --> 00:01:33,879 arm, 43 00:01:34,259 --> 00:01:37,379 is very unique because it allows us to 44 00:01:37,379 --> 00:01:38,920 really connect our 45 00:01:39,284 --> 00:01:43,045 basic scientists with our clinicians to really drive 46 00:01:43,045 --> 00:01:43,784 from discovery 47 00:01:44,084 --> 00:01:46,025 to the clinic much faster, 48 00:01:46,965 --> 00:01:50,185 for new innovative technologies, whether it be diagnostics, 49 00:01:50,884 --> 00:01:51,384 therapeutics, 50 00:01:53,379 --> 00:01:56,200 even some medical devices in in certain situations. 51 00:01:56,260 --> 00:01:59,379 But I think having researchers and clinicians work 52 00:01:59,379 --> 00:02:01,560 together to solve clinical problems 53 00:02:02,099 --> 00:02:02,840 has been 54 00:02:03,219 --> 00:02:04,840 both exciting and, 55 00:02:05,540 --> 00:02:06,040 really 56 00:02:06,505 --> 00:02:09,384 helping us understand how we can better position 57 00:02:09,384 --> 00:02:12,025 ourselves for the future of health care and 58 00:02:12,025 --> 00:02:14,344 and services are gonna change and also understand 59 00:02:14,344 --> 00:02:14,844 operationally 60 00:02:15,305 --> 00:02:17,004 how new therapies and new diagnostics 61 00:02:17,305 --> 00:02:19,064 may change how we have to operate as 62 00:02:19,064 --> 00:02:19,645 a network. 63 00:02:20,739 --> 00:02:22,599 That's amazing to hear. You know? And certainly, 64 00:02:22,979 --> 00:02:25,459 just very cool that you've got the ability, 65 00:02:25,459 --> 00:02:28,019 the Center for Discovery and Innovation set up, 66 00:02:28,259 --> 00:02:30,599 so you can have that kind of discovery, 67 00:02:31,459 --> 00:02:32,840 in the kind of innovation 68 00:02:33,219 --> 00:02:36,314 alongside health care providers understanding exactly what, 69 00:02:36,875 --> 00:02:39,135 the clinicians need in order to be successful. 70 00:02:39,675 --> 00:02:42,235 I'm curious. Zooming just into this last year 71 00:02:42,235 --> 00:02:44,074 or so, what accomplishment are you most proud 72 00:02:44,074 --> 00:02:44,574 of? 73 00:02:45,514 --> 00:02:47,594 You know, it's it's hard to say, but 74 00:02:47,594 --> 00:02:49,435 I think one of the first things that 75 00:02:49,435 --> 00:02:51,300 immediately comes to mind is, 76 00:02:51,860 --> 00:02:54,580 we have spun out a new company that's 77 00:02:54,580 --> 00:02:57,479 a early stage diagnostic that will use XLBreath 78 00:02:58,500 --> 00:02:59,240 to diagnose, 79 00:03:00,260 --> 00:03:01,960 cancer, lung cancer in particular, 80 00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:03,719 not through, 81 00:03:04,099 --> 00:03:06,520 gases, but literally being able to 82 00:03:10,594 --> 00:03:12,194 slept off in the lung, if you will. 83 00:03:12,194 --> 00:03:14,675 So we're super excited about that because it 84 00:03:14,675 --> 00:03:17,474 really is kinda setting the foundation for where 85 00:03:17,474 --> 00:03:18,375 early diagnostics 86 00:03:18,675 --> 00:03:19,314 can go, 87 00:03:20,050 --> 00:03:21,810 and really make a difference in certain kinds 88 00:03:21,810 --> 00:03:23,430 of, cancer diagnosis. 89 00:03:24,689 --> 00:03:26,370 Yeah. That's great to hear. You know, I'm 90 00:03:26,370 --> 00:03:26,870 curious, 91 00:03:27,729 --> 00:03:29,650 in looking at being able to, 92 00:03:30,370 --> 00:03:31,990 have that kind of project, 93 00:03:32,449 --> 00:03:34,635 going on at at the Center for Discovery 94 00:03:34,635 --> 00:03:36,314 and Innovation. You know, what does it take 95 00:03:36,314 --> 00:03:36,814 to, 96 00:03:37,435 --> 00:03:39,594 really tackle some of these big issues in 97 00:03:39,594 --> 00:03:42,155 health care? And how are I guess, what 98 00:03:42,155 --> 00:03:44,395 is the potential outcome as you continue on 99 00:03:44,395 --> 00:03:45,375 with your work there? 100 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:48,319 I think the the critical 101 00:03:48,620 --> 00:03:50,159 component is really, 102 00:03:51,099 --> 00:03:51,599 kind 103 00:03:52,539 --> 00:03:55,180 of, esoteric for some people, but it truly 104 00:03:55,180 --> 00:03:58,080 is the the connection and that intellectual curiosity 105 00:03:58,379 --> 00:04:00,134 on both the clinician side 106 00:04:00,614 --> 00:04:02,875 as well as the scientist side. So, 107 00:04:03,254 --> 00:04:04,235 so for example, 108 00:04:05,094 --> 00:04:07,655 we've got we've got, two areas or three 109 00:04:07,655 --> 00:04:10,055 areas in particular at the Center for Discovery 110 00:04:10,055 --> 00:04:11,914 and Innovation that we focus in on, 111 00:04:12,614 --> 00:04:13,114 oncology, 112 00:04:13,414 --> 00:04:16,800 obviously. A lot of opportunity there as well 113 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,339 as infectious disease and, 114 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,080 applied immunology. And I think infectious disease is 115 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:23,459 an interesting one because, 116 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,000 as you as we're all experiencing, there are 117 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:27,439 a lot of new viruses that we need 118 00:04:27,439 --> 00:04:29,185 to be prepped for. But I think one 119 00:04:29,185 --> 00:04:30,105 of the things that's, 120 00:04:30,904 --> 00:04:33,084 super unique is is when you have, 121 00:04:33,704 --> 00:04:35,245 those those clinical 122 00:04:35,865 --> 00:04:36,365 translational 123 00:04:36,904 --> 00:04:39,704 sciences who are truly trying to drive and 124 00:04:39,704 --> 00:04:40,204 understand 125 00:04:40,985 --> 00:04:43,819 those areas of opportunity, and I'll use immunology 126 00:04:44,039 --> 00:04:44,860 as an example, 127 00:04:45,479 --> 00:04:47,720 the the it crosses over into a lot 128 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,759 of different therapies. So when you have physicians 129 00:04:50,759 --> 00:04:53,419 who are trying to identify patients who 130 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:54,279 need, 131 00:04:54,919 --> 00:04:55,979 a better management 132 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:57,055 of a, 133 00:04:57,535 --> 00:04:58,035 immunotherapy 134 00:04:58,415 --> 00:04:59,154 for oncology, 135 00:04:59,935 --> 00:05:02,035 but they need the ability to manage, 136 00:05:02,814 --> 00:05:05,134 the side effects and the toxicity of those 137 00:05:05,134 --> 00:05:07,794 new cell therapies, for example. Our immunologists 138 00:05:08,095 --> 00:05:08,754 and clinicians 139 00:05:09,629 --> 00:05:11,490 both are trying to solve that problem, 140 00:05:11,949 --> 00:05:14,269 and trying to understand how to make that 141 00:05:14,269 --> 00:05:14,769 connection. 142 00:05:15,069 --> 00:05:17,229 But it you you have to have that 143 00:05:17,229 --> 00:05:19,949 level of intellectual curiosity on both sides. And 144 00:05:19,949 --> 00:05:22,589 I think, you know, interestingly enough, you know, 145 00:05:22,589 --> 00:05:24,535 I know a lot of folks think that 146 00:05:24,535 --> 00:05:25,995 physicians are not necessarily 147 00:05:26,454 --> 00:05:28,854 always interested in in going to that next 148 00:05:28,854 --> 00:05:31,675 level, but they're they're scientists at heart. Right? 149 00:05:32,214 --> 00:05:34,454 So it's about finding the ones that, 150 00:05:34,774 --> 00:05:36,670 you have a really good connection with or 151 00:05:36,670 --> 00:05:38,589 can have a good connection who are also 152 00:05:38,670 --> 00:05:40,029 you know, I hate hate to say it 153 00:05:40,029 --> 00:05:41,790 this way, but kinda hitting their head up 154 00:05:41,790 --> 00:05:43,230 against the wall to try and treat some 155 00:05:43,230 --> 00:05:44,910 of these patients that may be very difficult 156 00:05:44,910 --> 00:05:47,790 to treat. And our scientists love those kind 157 00:05:47,790 --> 00:05:49,970 of challenges. So it's about the connections. 158 00:05:51,365 --> 00:05:53,045 That makes a lot of sense and, you 159 00:05:53,045 --> 00:05:55,285 know, really, really helpful to understand a little 160 00:05:55,285 --> 00:05:57,045 bit deeper into all of the things that 161 00:05:57,045 --> 00:05:59,205 you're doing and and how you're bridging those 162 00:05:59,205 --> 00:06:01,764 two worlds together in a meaningful way. Now 163 00:06:01,764 --> 00:06:03,205 looking ahead, where do you see some of 164 00:06:03,205 --> 00:06:05,365 the big growth opportunities for your team in 165 00:06:05,365 --> 00:06:06,985 the next twelve months or so? 166 00:06:08,060 --> 00:06:10,220 I think, you know, it's interesting because I 167 00:06:10,220 --> 00:06:12,939 think with a lot of uncertainty in the 168 00:06:12,939 --> 00:06:16,000 marketplace as it relates to developing new technologies, 169 00:06:16,699 --> 00:06:18,539 particularly, you know, when we're seeing a lot 170 00:06:18,539 --> 00:06:20,459 of things with the new administration, there's a 171 00:06:20,459 --> 00:06:21,884 lot of question as to where some of 172 00:06:21,884 --> 00:06:24,524 these discoveries are gonna be funded from. It 173 00:06:24,524 --> 00:06:27,644 creates unique unique opportunities for us to connect 174 00:06:27,644 --> 00:06:30,204 with some of these, both the medical device 175 00:06:30,204 --> 00:06:30,704 companies, 176 00:06:31,884 --> 00:06:35,084 pharmaceutical companies who have relied on a lot 177 00:06:35,084 --> 00:06:35,745 of funding, 178 00:06:36,764 --> 00:06:39,120 being put into the discovery 179 00:06:39,580 --> 00:06:42,379 of new innovative solutions. And so for us, 180 00:06:42,379 --> 00:06:44,080 I think while it is is, 181 00:06:44,779 --> 00:06:47,259 unsettling in some respects because we're not exactly 182 00:06:47,259 --> 00:06:48,939 sure, you know, how to fund some of 183 00:06:48,939 --> 00:06:50,699 the development that needs to occur in some 184 00:06:50,699 --> 00:06:51,439 of these areas, 185 00:06:51,774 --> 00:06:53,854 It also creates an opportunity for us to 186 00:06:53,854 --> 00:06:57,634 rethink how we look at discovering new, 187 00:06:58,254 --> 00:06:59,314 innovative technologies 188 00:06:59,774 --> 00:07:01,555 and translating them into, 189 00:07:02,414 --> 00:07:05,305 potential solutions for our patient population. So I 190 00:07:05,305 --> 00:07:08,580 think it's it it actually will create unique 191 00:07:08,580 --> 00:07:11,480 opportunities to have different kinds of discussions with 192 00:07:11,779 --> 00:07:14,420 pharma, medtech, etcetera. So I think that's kind 193 00:07:14,420 --> 00:07:15,080 of a, 194 00:07:15,620 --> 00:07:16,839 a kind of an opportunity, 195 00:07:17,379 --> 00:07:19,060 for us in a in a growth space 196 00:07:19,060 --> 00:07:20,019 that we haven't really, 197 00:07:21,064 --> 00:07:23,305 dived into as much as we could. I 198 00:07:23,305 --> 00:07:24,425 think the other areas, 199 00:07:24,904 --> 00:07:27,164 obviously, is is artificial intelligence, 200 00:07:27,625 --> 00:07:29,704 but I think that that, the growth in 201 00:07:29,704 --> 00:07:31,384 that space is gonna need to be, 202 00:07:32,185 --> 00:07:34,925 modulated in some respects. I think for us, 203 00:07:35,220 --> 00:07:37,779 we're we've been doing a lot of work 204 00:07:37,779 --> 00:07:39,240 in creating the governance, 205 00:07:39,699 --> 00:07:42,420 for artificial intelligence, which companies we wanna work 206 00:07:42,420 --> 00:07:44,680 with, what what's gonna be important to us. 207 00:07:44,980 --> 00:07:45,800 But I think, 208 00:07:46,339 --> 00:07:47,639 there are two aspects 209 00:07:47,985 --> 00:07:51,185 to artificial intelligence that some of the, innovation 210 00:07:51,185 --> 00:07:53,904 and and opportunity comes from. One is, I'll 211 00:07:53,904 --> 00:07:56,544 call it in the operational efficiency arena. How 212 00:07:56,544 --> 00:07:59,444 do we leverage artificial intelligence and machine learning 213 00:07:59,824 --> 00:08:01,685 to really drive more efficient operations, 214 00:08:04,209 --> 00:08:06,930 from automatic coding to, you know, 215 00:08:07,730 --> 00:08:08,230 really, 216 00:08:10,050 --> 00:08:12,050 automating some of the processes that are done 217 00:08:12,050 --> 00:08:13,029 manually today. 218 00:08:13,889 --> 00:08:16,735 So that's a a great growth area. And 219 00:08:16,735 --> 00:08:18,735 I think for us, the other area of 220 00:08:18,735 --> 00:08:19,235 opportunity, 221 00:08:20,014 --> 00:08:21,875 is really leveraging AI 222 00:08:22,415 --> 00:08:24,574 to in the clinical space. How can we 223 00:08:24,574 --> 00:08:25,074 leverage 224 00:08:25,694 --> 00:08:28,879 the the the that huge computing component, 225 00:08:29,979 --> 00:08:31,360 to really better understand 226 00:08:31,740 --> 00:08:32,399 our patients, 227 00:08:33,100 --> 00:08:34,720 not only in in groups 228 00:08:35,259 --> 00:08:37,980 and diagnoses, but even at an individual level? 229 00:08:37,980 --> 00:08:40,220 So I think, for us, that's gonna be 230 00:08:40,220 --> 00:08:42,460 a huge growth opportunity, particularly in the clinical 231 00:08:42,460 --> 00:08:42,960 space. 232 00:08:44,115 --> 00:08:46,035 I love that. That's, really great to hear. 233 00:08:46,035 --> 00:08:48,274 And, especially, I like your ruminations on some 234 00:08:48,274 --> 00:08:50,435 of the AI and automation opportunities because I 235 00:08:50,435 --> 00:08:53,415 know, you know, there there's a a very, 236 00:08:54,035 --> 00:08:55,475 great time and place for it, but at 237 00:08:55,475 --> 00:08:57,100 the same time, you have to be thoughtful 238 00:08:57,100 --> 00:08:59,740 about implementing it and understanding exactly what's happening 239 00:08:59,740 --> 00:09:01,580 and and have the right expertise around it. 240 00:09:01,580 --> 00:09:03,740 So, I think your approach, it sounds like 241 00:09:03,740 --> 00:09:04,399 it's very, 242 00:09:04,779 --> 00:09:06,620 targeted. It it makes a lot of sense 243 00:09:06,620 --> 00:09:08,059 in where things are at today and how 244 00:09:08,059 --> 00:09:09,519 they could potentially be beneficial, 245 00:09:10,220 --> 00:09:11,360 in in moving forward. 246 00:09:11,795 --> 00:09:13,394 I think one of the and I'll I'll 247 00:09:13,394 --> 00:09:15,235 make one more additional comment in that space 248 00:09:15,235 --> 00:09:17,254 that I think we've done a good job. 249 00:09:18,035 --> 00:09:19,875 And, actually, I think it's one of the 250 00:09:19,875 --> 00:09:21,955 areas that that really gets over 251 00:09:22,754 --> 00:09:24,535 overlooked to some degree. But 252 00:09:25,019 --> 00:09:26,559 we we bring our bioethicist 253 00:09:27,019 --> 00:09:29,120 in in the process for clinical, 254 00:09:29,579 --> 00:09:31,519 AI solution development 255 00:09:31,820 --> 00:09:33,679 or even evaluation because, 256 00:09:34,059 --> 00:09:36,799 you know, artificial intelligence creates very unique, 257 00:09:37,339 --> 00:09:38,959 opportunities for us to do 258 00:09:39,575 --> 00:09:41,735 better things and bigger things, but it also 259 00:09:41,735 --> 00:09:43,034 raises a lot of questions. 260 00:09:43,495 --> 00:09:46,134 And even for our own clinicians, trying to 261 00:09:46,134 --> 00:09:49,575 kinda walk through what change that means in 262 00:09:49,575 --> 00:09:51,894 how they diagnose, how they treat, how they 263 00:09:51,894 --> 00:09:52,394 oversee, 264 00:09:53,259 --> 00:09:56,139 the care, and service delivery and what how 265 00:09:56,139 --> 00:09:57,919 it changes, how they make decisions 266 00:09:58,779 --> 00:10:00,480 also have ethical implications. 267 00:10:01,179 --> 00:10:03,820 And so getting through that process at the 268 00:10:03,820 --> 00:10:07,375 same time and really raising good questions and 269 00:10:07,375 --> 00:10:09,054 answer making sure we know the answer to 270 00:10:09,054 --> 00:10:11,615 them before we start implementing solutions that we're 271 00:10:11,615 --> 00:10:13,534 not sure you know, that raise questions or 272 00:10:13,534 --> 00:10:15,315 raise challenges that we didn't anticipate. 273 00:10:15,774 --> 00:10:17,875 So I think it's, it's something that 274 00:10:18,414 --> 00:10:19,634 I would highly recommend, 275 00:10:21,220 --> 00:10:21,720 people 276 00:10:22,259 --> 00:10:25,220 engage, their, ethics team in that process as 277 00:10:25,220 --> 00:10:25,720 well. 278 00:10:26,740 --> 00:10:28,899 That's such a good point. Thank you for 279 00:10:28,899 --> 00:10:31,720 for raising that and certainly keeping that ethical 280 00:10:31,940 --> 00:10:33,240 context and and mindset, 281 00:10:34,085 --> 00:10:35,544 front and center is so important. 282 00:10:35,845 --> 00:10:37,445 Now we've talked a lot about some big 283 00:10:37,445 --> 00:10:40,004 opportunities for growth and development, but I know 284 00:10:40,004 --> 00:10:41,924 there are challenges out there as well. What 285 00:10:41,924 --> 00:10:44,325 are some of the roadblocks or potential headwinds 286 00:10:44,325 --> 00:10:46,024 that you have your eye on today? 287 00:10:46,899 --> 00:10:50,039 You know, I mentioned the, current administration earlier. 288 00:10:50,339 --> 00:10:52,019 I would say that that is truly one 289 00:10:52,019 --> 00:10:52,500 of the, 290 00:10:53,139 --> 00:10:55,860 areas that that is a potential challenge for 291 00:10:55,860 --> 00:10:58,279 us, and it's a big challenge because particularly 292 00:10:58,339 --> 00:11:00,259 because some of our scientists are also, 293 00:11:00,580 --> 00:11:02,625 relying on some of the funding that that 294 00:11:02,705 --> 00:11:04,404 comes from the NIH and NSF. 295 00:11:04,865 --> 00:11:06,945 So that's a big challenge because if you 296 00:11:06,945 --> 00:11:09,745 wanna really say you're a research organization and 297 00:11:09,745 --> 00:11:10,725 you wanna translate, 298 00:11:11,985 --> 00:11:13,524 science into care, 299 00:11:13,904 --> 00:11:15,924 you've gotta be able to fund that development. 300 00:11:16,009 --> 00:11:17,950 You've gotta be able to fund that transition. 301 00:11:18,009 --> 00:11:18,750 And so, 302 00:11:19,690 --> 00:11:21,070 we as an organization, 303 00:11:21,929 --> 00:11:23,950 will have to make some critical decisions, 304 00:11:24,409 --> 00:11:27,210 if the funding, sources change. So for us, 305 00:11:27,210 --> 00:11:29,404 it's about, you know, how do we continue 306 00:11:30,105 --> 00:11:30,605 to, 307 00:11:31,544 --> 00:11:32,684 find the resources 308 00:11:33,225 --> 00:11:34,125 to to 309 00:11:34,504 --> 00:11:36,264 put our money where our mouth is from 310 00:11:36,264 --> 00:11:39,225 an innovation perspective. And so we will be 311 00:11:39,225 --> 00:11:40,445 driving to, 312 00:11:41,090 --> 00:11:41,590 identify, 313 00:11:42,610 --> 00:11:45,330 and really start to implement different types of 314 00:11:45,330 --> 00:11:48,050 services and opportunities that really will create a 315 00:11:48,050 --> 00:11:49,110 much more diversified, 316 00:11:50,050 --> 00:11:52,769 revenue stream that will enable us to to 317 00:11:52,769 --> 00:11:55,304 continue to to meet that mission on the 318 00:11:55,304 --> 00:11:57,245 research and innovation side of things. 319 00:11:58,665 --> 00:12:00,585 That that's fascinating to hear. And, you know, 320 00:12:00,585 --> 00:12:01,165 I know, 321 00:12:01,785 --> 00:12:04,985 the situation is changing daily, but especially given 322 00:12:04,985 --> 00:12:07,625 the uncertainty and then, as you mentioned, reliance 323 00:12:07,625 --> 00:12:10,764 on funding from NIH and and other grant 324 00:12:11,759 --> 00:12:12,259 sources. 325 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:13,679 What do you do, 326 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:15,919 is kind of in in the planning stages 327 00:12:15,919 --> 00:12:18,080 now to be ready for the eventuality of 328 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,279 less funding or, you know, trying to figure 329 00:12:21,279 --> 00:12:22,580 out how to navigate, 330 00:12:23,455 --> 00:12:26,414 you know, the the potential future while also 331 00:12:26,414 --> 00:12:28,014 keeping your eye on what you can do 332 00:12:28,014 --> 00:12:30,335 today, to maximize the resources that you do 333 00:12:30,335 --> 00:12:30,835 have? 334 00:12:33,054 --> 00:12:35,455 I think there's obviously, there's a a role 335 00:12:35,455 --> 00:12:37,715 for philanthropy, and we have to kinda change 336 00:12:37,774 --> 00:12:38,250 how we've 337 00:12:39,370 --> 00:12:42,090 what we've raised funds for in the past 338 00:12:42,090 --> 00:12:44,169 versus what we may wanna need what we 339 00:12:44,169 --> 00:12:45,769 may need to raise funds for in the 340 00:12:45,769 --> 00:12:47,230 future. So that's definitely, 341 00:12:48,009 --> 00:12:50,750 an area. I think for us is really 342 00:12:51,084 --> 00:12:52,445 understanding the assets that we have at our 343 00:12:52,445 --> 00:12:53,584 hands and the value 344 00:12:53,964 --> 00:12:55,184 opportunities that we have, 345 00:12:56,044 --> 00:12:57,964 or the opportunities that we have to create 346 00:12:57,964 --> 00:12:58,625 more value, 347 00:12:59,804 --> 00:13:02,764 and and how to create business structures or 348 00:13:02,764 --> 00:13:05,245 revenue streams around what we have already that 349 00:13:05,245 --> 00:13:07,470 we haven't really maximized. And I'll use an 350 00:13:08,009 --> 00:13:09,850 example. You know, and data is a great 351 00:13:09,850 --> 00:13:11,529 example. Right? How do we how do we 352 00:13:11,529 --> 00:13:13,610 leverage all the information that we have? How 353 00:13:13,610 --> 00:13:16,830 do we leverage all of the, clinical expertise 354 00:13:16,889 --> 00:13:19,149 that we have differently to create new 355 00:13:21,284 --> 00:13:21,784 funding, 356 00:13:22,245 --> 00:13:24,325 strategies. So we do, 357 00:13:24,725 --> 00:13:27,784 we do some accelerator programs now. We do, 358 00:13:28,245 --> 00:13:30,024 for our early stage companies. 359 00:13:30,964 --> 00:13:32,679 I I would say that we're gonna see 360 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,860 a lot more of that that creates opportunities 361 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,879 for us to create a a new IP 362 00:13:37,879 --> 00:13:40,279 that we can license and or potentially have 363 00:13:40,279 --> 00:13:41,500 equity in other companies 364 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,774 that, we jointly develop solutions around. So I 365 00:13:45,774 --> 00:13:47,375 think there are a lot of different ways 366 00:13:47,375 --> 00:13:48,975 for us to do that, but I think 367 00:13:48,975 --> 00:13:49,794 we wouldn't 368 00:13:50,414 --> 00:13:52,414 how do I phrase it? I think we 369 00:13:52,414 --> 00:13:55,075 we are gonna do those things now more 370 00:13:55,134 --> 00:13:57,855 and focus our efforts on doing those and 371 00:13:57,855 --> 00:14:00,269 hope that the funding doesn't change, 372 00:14:00,670 --> 00:14:02,350 but go ahead and start to work on 373 00:14:02,350 --> 00:14:03,970 diversifying that revenue stream. 374 00:14:05,070 --> 00:14:06,590 Got it. I I think that's a really 375 00:14:06,590 --> 00:14:08,670 solid, and smart way to look at the 376 00:14:08,670 --> 00:14:10,429 present as well as planning for the future. 377 00:14:10,429 --> 00:14:12,529 I I appreciate the extra additional, 378 00:14:13,470 --> 00:14:13,970 outlining 379 00:14:14,294 --> 00:14:16,554 strategy there. It's it's extremely beneficial. 380 00:14:17,095 --> 00:14:19,274 Now before we wrap up here, I'm wondering, 381 00:14:19,414 --> 00:14:20,855 what is the number one thing that you're 382 00:14:20,855 --> 00:14:23,414 doing right now to set, Hackensack Meridian up 383 00:14:23,414 --> 00:14:24,634 for long term success? 384 00:14:25,575 --> 00:14:27,334 The number one thing we're doing right now 385 00:14:27,334 --> 00:14:28,710 is really focusing on 386 00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:33,190 developing that innovative culture and entrepreneurial culture within 387 00:14:33,190 --> 00:14:35,990 the organization. So we have 37,000 388 00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:38,970 team members, another eight to 9,000 389 00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:39,610 physicians. 390 00:14:41,414 --> 00:14:44,375 I think that, you know, really trying to 391 00:14:44,375 --> 00:14:44,875 drive, 392 00:14:46,615 --> 00:14:48,955 the the culture to understand, 393 00:14:49,975 --> 00:14:51,434 and also embrace 394 00:14:52,214 --> 00:14:55,195 that we need new solutions. We want ideas. 395 00:14:55,334 --> 00:14:56,875 We want people to innovate. 396 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,139 We want them to try new things, 397 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,600 and how we can support them. And I 398 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,980 think developing that support structure to keep maintaining 399 00:15:05,039 --> 00:15:07,679 that that drive and that energy to do 400 00:15:07,679 --> 00:15:08,580 things differently, 401 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:11,904 I think is is really it's a big 402 00:15:11,904 --> 00:15:13,845 challenge, but I do think that 403 00:15:14,384 --> 00:15:17,105 it's going to set the organization up, for 404 00:15:17,105 --> 00:15:18,785 the long term in a in a much 405 00:15:18,785 --> 00:15:19,285 better, 406 00:15:19,664 --> 00:15:20,164 way. 407 00:15:21,024 --> 00:15:22,164 We are innovation 408 00:15:23,024 --> 00:15:25,559 is really all about problem solving. Right? So 409 00:15:26,039 --> 00:15:28,519 in our our clinicians and our our team 410 00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:30,919 members are at the front line. They know 411 00:15:30,919 --> 00:15:33,320 the problems. They know they probably have solutions 412 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:34,620 to the to the challenges, 413 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,159 today. We wanna be able to make sure 414 00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:39,480 that they understand that that is something we 415 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,115 wanna hear. We wanna help support because 416 00:15:42,495 --> 00:15:44,495 we are going to need a workforce that 417 00:15:44,495 --> 00:15:46,014 can problem solve on the fly in a 418 00:15:46,014 --> 00:15:48,415 very different way for the future. So building 419 00:15:48,415 --> 00:15:50,735 that level of culture and that understanding, and 420 00:15:50,735 --> 00:15:52,620 I'll call it a fearlessness, though it's it's 421 00:15:52,620 --> 00:15:55,500 probably too much of an aggressive word, but 422 00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:57,440 a fearlessness to try new things, 423 00:15:57,899 --> 00:15:59,660 because that's really where we're gonna need to 424 00:15:59,660 --> 00:16:00,779 have most of our, 425 00:16:01,419 --> 00:16:01,919 staff 426 00:16:02,220 --> 00:16:03,200 really feel comfortable, 427 00:16:03,740 --> 00:16:05,200 in the in the near term. 428 00:16:06,424 --> 00:16:08,825 Absolutely. I I think that is amazing insight 429 00:16:08,825 --> 00:16:10,664 and foresight. Sandra, thank you so much for 430 00:16:10,664 --> 00:16:12,184 joining us on the podcast today. This has 431 00:16:12,184 --> 00:16:13,945 been an amazing discussion, and I look forward 432 00:16:13,945 --> 00:16:16,184 to connecting with you again soon. Thanks for 433 00:16:16,184 --> 00:16:18,745 having me. Absolutely. And then we're also looking 434 00:16:18,745 --> 00:16:20,730 forward to seeing you at the health IT 435 00:16:20,730 --> 00:16:23,389 digital health and revenue cycle event, this fall. 436 00:16:23,529 --> 00:16:25,450 I know you're speaking, on one of our 437 00:16:25,450 --> 00:16:27,450 panels, which will be fantastic, and we're just 438 00:16:27,450 --> 00:16:29,769 looking forward to having you there as well. 439 00:16:29,769 --> 00:16:31,470 I'm gonna be happy to be there.