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This is Laura Dierdo with the Becker's Healthcare

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podcast.

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I'm thrilled today to be joined by doctor

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Humberto Chakanardi,

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senior vice president and chief health digital officer

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at UCHealth. Doctor Chakanardi, it's a pleasure to

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have you on the podcast today.

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Good morning, Laura. It's a pleasure being in

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the in this podcast.

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Thank you for inviting me.

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Absolutely. The pleasure's all mine. And, you know,

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I'm excited for this conversation because I know

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there's a lot of great things you're doing

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at UCHealth, and it'll be fantastic to to

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share some of those successes with our our

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broader audience and then also how you're thinking

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about the future. But before we do that,

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can you tell us a little bit more

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about UCHealth and what makes it unique?

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Well, UCHealth is,

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is an academic medical center,

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which makes it,

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not unique, but

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particularly,

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special in my opinion in our market here.

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We are connected to University of Cincinnati,

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more specifically,

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the College of Medicine

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of University of Cincinnati,

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where our our clinicians come from. So our

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clinicians are all faculty at the College of

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Medicine.

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We also,

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I think we are special in a sense

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that we serve the

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the the most, underserved

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part of the population of the Greater Cincinnati

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area.

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So,

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that makes us,

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you know, a a hospital that is open,

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has the doors open to

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most of, everyone,

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from the very poor to everyone else.

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That's great to hear. You know, in such

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an important population of people to serve,

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those who may not have access otherwise to

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care and truly providing the innovative type of

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care that the community needs as well from

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academic setting. I'm wondering from the last year

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or so, what accomplishment are you most proud

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of?

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Well,

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while we are still,

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like any other,

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health care organization these days, still struggling financially,

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to

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go over the

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the

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this big tsunami,

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financial tsunami caused by the pandemic and and

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other things,

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after that.

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So we we are still working hard to

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grow and continue to advance,

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in many areas. So a few examples would

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be

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our digital,

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more specifically in our digital area.

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We we are reshaping,

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to be ready for this, for today's days

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where AI,

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becomes an important

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collaborator

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and an element of strength,

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to help us

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do what we do better and more efficiently.

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And we recently introduced, for instance,

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this technology

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that helps the the clinicians,

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when they are consulting with their patients to

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use voice only, and then AI transcribes and

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interprets and codifies

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everything that happened in the consultation.

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So while this is not the

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a complete innovation,

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not a lot of places,

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have adopted that yet, so I would consider

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that to be proof of our innovations.

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I also,

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wanna call out that we are,

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expanding in in a number of, other areas

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like, supply chain and other administrative

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areas to bring more efficiency.

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It's really impressive to have that kind of

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adoption rate among patients,

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in having them use it and appreciate the

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tools that you put out there for them,

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and to continue to to grow and evolve

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care. Now where do you see some of

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the biggest growth opportunities for your team in

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the next twelve months or so?

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Yeah. Obviously, we we always need to keep

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an eye on on on things that are

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already there. So we need to keep our

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infrastructure,

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operating properly.

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We need to,

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keep renewing

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our infra

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our devices.

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We need to make sure that the,

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the cybersecurity

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component is up to date, and that's a

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a constant battle,

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as as you may know.

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We also

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have a a a goal to expand on

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on on our clinical informatics group,

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which is

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a group that is key to make sure

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that all those,

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those new things that we

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I was referring to up to recently,

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All those tools are properly,

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assessed, vetted, validated

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before we introduce them,

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in the in the real world.

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So why we are not afraid of, trying

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something new? Because we are an academic center,

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so,

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having something new is not unknown to us.

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We actually developed some of those, novelties.

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But it's important that before we turn them

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into,

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true reward,

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assets and resources,

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we are sure that they are

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appropriate, that they are safe to use, and

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the the outcome,

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is the intended outcome and not an unintended

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outcome.

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That's such a a really good point. And,

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certainly, as you mentioned with all the technology

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that is advancing at such a rapid pace,

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being able to sometimes it seems like slow

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down and and make sure you've got those

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validations and,

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have mitigated risks as much as possible,

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is truly important, especially in the patient care

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setting. How do you manage

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that,

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you know, if somebody is really excited about

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new technology or, you know, there's something that

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seems that it could be really beneficial,

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how do you make sure that you are

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taking the right steps in order to keep

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it safe, as you mentioned, and without waiting

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too long or or falling behind in some

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of these technology trends that's been moving so

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quickly?

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Yeah. We we use a combination of,

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methods and and and approaches.

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If if if those are are

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are solutions that come from valid

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commercial,

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and large companies.

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And we we know other, peer organizations

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are starting to use or or did did

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go through the

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the the proof of concept phase of those.

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We would

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just adopt them as the others and keep

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an eye. So, usually, what we do is

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that we start with pilot,

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implementations

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that will not be,

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across system,

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initially,

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making sure that we have a controlled

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environment for this early stages of the implementation

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so we can see if they are really

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working as expected,

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if they are producing any,

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unintended

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outcome,

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those those kind of things.

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The other methods we use are more scientific.

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So if those innovations

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are

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are too new and we don't have any

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other peer organization

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using that or this this was developed

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in house.

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For those,

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innovations,

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we we we do,

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the same as we do with new drugs

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or or new devices.

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We put them under proper scientific

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experiments.

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So,

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we control how we do that. We have

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the proper,

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patient safety and ethical reviews.

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We make sure that we have an

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a proper statistical,

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method so we can evaluate the results later.

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So we follow,

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the rules. We we go through IRBs, which

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are institutional review boards, and those,

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are organisms

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in in academic centers like ours that review

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every new protocol,

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that is experimental

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in nature

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to guarantee patient safety.

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So, obviously, patient safety is only one side

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of, the equation here because we we want

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to be patient safe, of course, but we

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also want the two to benefit the

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the process that the two is, supporting.

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So we want we want this to be

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beneficial

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not only to the patients but also to

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the organization.

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So then we add

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the components in the evaluation

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process that will help us measure,

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the efficiency,

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from that standpoint also.

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So,

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there is not a big secret here. We

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follow, practices that, science use for years and

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years,

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to to make sure that we are doing

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the right things and we are using the

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right, tools.

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That makes a lot of sense, and thank

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you so much for walking us through that

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process. Now I know a lot of opportunities

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ahead, but also challenges.

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What are some of the big challenges that

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you're anticipating in the next year or two?

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So,

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that's that's a hard question to answer, but

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it's a it's a an important one.

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I think the the I mean, there there

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are many challenges because like anything completely new,

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and we are seeing that AI in particular

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is is a game changer. So

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while we we were used to be on

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the edge of, new things with the digital

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innovations,

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Clinical decision support is something that we are

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doing,

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for a long time, but not necessarily

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at the pace and the extent that AI

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allow us to do.

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So I think the one of the challenge

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comes from that

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is the is the speed

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and the and the size and the complexity,

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of of those,

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newer things.

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So while they may not be in isolation

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completely new, but they are coming in in

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in such a big volume and and so

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fast that,

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that's a challenge.

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So we need to to learn how to

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deal with that avalanche

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of, new things, coming at very fast speed.

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So

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I would count that as one challenge. The

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other one is we are adding more components,

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to the ecosystem, to the digital ecosystem.

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And and the management

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of that,

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fabric, the new fabric that is now

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much more plural and diverse and,

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bigger,

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that also becomes a challenge. How you manage,

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how you govern

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so many

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pieces working together

287
00:11:08,365 --> 00:11:10,464
from different vendors, from different,

288
00:11:11,004 --> 00:11:11,504
origins

289
00:11:11,964 --> 00:11:14,845
using different technologies on the back or on

290
00:11:14,845 --> 00:11:15,504
the front.

291
00:11:16,740 --> 00:11:17,240
So

292
00:11:17,860 --> 00:11:18,680
that alone,

293
00:11:19,379 --> 00:11:21,879
is is, constituting to me,

294
00:11:22,420 --> 00:11:23,879
a second big challenge.

295
00:11:24,820 --> 00:11:27,560
With the first one, I would add that

296
00:11:27,620 --> 00:11:30,040
everyone now in in the organization

297
00:11:31,264 --> 00:11:34,245
feels that, they could be helped by,

298
00:11:35,184 --> 00:11:35,985
some of those,

299
00:11:36,865 --> 00:11:37,365
advancements.

300
00:11:37,985 --> 00:11:41,044
So that becomes the third challenge, which is

301
00:11:41,424 --> 00:11:42,245
how do you

302
00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:45,370
govern the prior prioritization

303
00:11:46,309 --> 00:11:47,370
of deployment,

304
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:48,870
acquisition,

305
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:53,769
introduction of those technologies? Because everyone wants everything,

306
00:11:54,389 --> 00:11:55,769
and, that becomes,

307
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:58,784
it it it's kind of a we have

308
00:11:58,784 --> 00:12:00,004
we have a huge

309
00:12:00,464 --> 00:12:00,964
demand,

310
00:12:02,144 --> 00:12:05,105
in front of us and, how how to

311
00:12:05,105 --> 00:12:05,605
manage

312
00:12:05,985 --> 00:12:06,485
expectations,

313
00:12:07,585 --> 00:12:08,884
educate people,

314
00:12:10,384 --> 00:12:12,539
in in this new digital literacy,

315
00:12:13,820 --> 00:12:14,320
world,

316
00:12:16,139 --> 00:12:18,059
those are are the third part of the

317
00:12:18,220 --> 00:12:18,720
so

318
00:12:19,579 --> 00:12:21,579
those are the three challenge I I would

319
00:12:21,579 --> 00:12:22,720
mention right now.

320
00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:25,500
Well, that's fascinating to hear. And, you know,

321
00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:27,345
I I really appreciate you talking through all

322
00:12:27,345 --> 00:12:29,264
of that because I I think, as you

323
00:12:29,264 --> 00:12:31,584
mentioned, the rate of change is faster than

324
00:12:31,584 --> 00:12:32,964
ever before and the pace,

325
00:12:33,504 --> 00:12:35,345
you know, really makes a big difference. And

326
00:12:35,345 --> 00:12:37,264
now that we're past the the point of,

327
00:12:37,264 --> 00:12:39,424
you know, people being introduced to AI and

328
00:12:39,424 --> 00:12:41,284
and then they really see the benefits and,

329
00:12:41,889 --> 00:12:44,330
you know, noisy space out there and wanting

330
00:12:44,330 --> 00:12:47,230
to incorporate more and more into the organization.

331
00:12:47,850 --> 00:12:50,409
Really, you know, it dovetails nicely to everything

332
00:12:50,409 --> 00:12:52,730
else that you've been talking about on making

333
00:12:52,730 --> 00:12:53,384
sure that,

334
00:12:53,865 --> 00:12:55,705
you're selecting the right things. I know we

335
00:12:55,705 --> 00:12:57,544
talked about the financial challenges a bit as

336
00:12:57,544 --> 00:12:59,565
well for most hospitals and health systems.

337
00:13:00,264 --> 00:13:03,644
You know, the the technology does, require some

338
00:13:03,785 --> 00:13:05,705
resource investment as well.

339
00:13:06,264 --> 00:13:09,009
So, you know, the the governance process, I

340
00:13:09,009 --> 00:13:10,549
can imagine, really, really,

341
00:13:11,250 --> 00:13:13,570
is helpful and beneficial to have a strong

342
00:13:13,570 --> 00:13:15,889
one when you're faced with the rapid change

343
00:13:15,889 --> 00:13:18,870
plus the desire for many more, technologies,

344
00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:21,269
coming into the health care organization.

345
00:13:22,424 --> 00:13:25,065
Yeah. I I I will add one other

346
00:13:25,065 --> 00:13:27,245
dimension to that, which is

347
00:13:27,784 --> 00:13:30,825
with something that people tend I mean, people

348
00:13:30,825 --> 00:13:32,684
that are not in my seat

349
00:13:33,144 --> 00:13:36,445
tend to not, appreciate is the fact that

350
00:13:37,250 --> 00:13:39,909
different than when we are deciding on technologies

351
00:13:40,129 --> 00:13:41,669
like that for our own,

352
00:13:42,210 --> 00:13:43,269
personal lives.

353
00:13:43,970 --> 00:13:46,929
So we decide, let me try ChatTPT or

354
00:13:46,929 --> 00:13:50,230
let me try DeepSeek or something like that.

355
00:13:50,825 --> 00:13:52,985
And then if you don't like, you stop

356
00:13:52,985 --> 00:13:55,225
using it or things like that. When we

357
00:13:55,225 --> 00:13:56,105
are in a,

358
00:13:56,664 --> 00:14:00,365
in a professional and formal organization like ours

359
00:14:00,504 --> 00:14:02,205
or any other like ours,

360
00:14:04,169 --> 00:14:06,889
Those decisions are long lasting. So you you

361
00:14:06,889 --> 00:14:08,970
you cannot just turn on and off those

362
00:14:08,970 --> 00:14:09,470
things,

363
00:14:09,769 --> 00:14:10,589
every day,

364
00:14:11,049 --> 00:14:14,429
not only because it's costly, but also because

365
00:14:14,649 --> 00:14:15,850
there is data

366
00:14:16,644 --> 00:14:19,605
there is liability connected to those,

367
00:14:20,164 --> 00:14:20,664
resources,

368
00:14:22,084 --> 00:14:24,184
and and and those may require,

369
00:14:24,725 --> 00:14:25,544
for compliance,

370
00:14:26,084 --> 00:14:26,825
long term,

371
00:14:27,605 --> 00:14:28,105
agreements.

372
00:14:28,804 --> 00:14:29,304
So

373
00:14:31,439 --> 00:14:34,319
once you decide for something, you will need

374
00:14:34,319 --> 00:14:36,339
to live with that for a while.

375
00:14:37,199 --> 00:14:39,939
When we are doing our pilots, we have

376
00:14:40,399 --> 00:14:41,220
an exit,

377
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,319
way because it's a pilot. But once you

378
00:14:44,319 --> 00:14:44,819
turn

379
00:14:45,284 --> 00:14:46,745
pilot into production,

380
00:14:47,605 --> 00:14:50,745
things change dramatically. Because from that point on,

381
00:14:50,884 --> 00:14:52,504
that becomes part of your

382
00:14:52,964 --> 00:14:53,464
formal,

383
00:14:54,084 --> 00:14:54,584
environment,

384
00:14:55,044 --> 00:14:56,424
and you have responsibilities,

385
00:14:57,365 --> 00:14:58,184
over that.

386
00:15:01,009 --> 00:15:04,370
That's really helpful insights, especially coming from, someone

387
00:15:04,370 --> 00:15:06,629
that you see with the expertise, you know,

388
00:15:06,850 --> 00:15:09,490
and and the top digital accountabilities for what's

389
00:15:09,490 --> 00:15:11,750
happening, just really, really seems vital.

390
00:15:12,290 --> 00:15:14,235
I think, you know, given everything we've talked

391
00:15:14,235 --> 00:15:15,754
about today, I wanted to wrap up here

392
00:15:15,754 --> 00:15:16,414
in asking,

393
00:15:16,875 --> 00:15:18,394
what is the number one thing that you're

394
00:15:18,394 --> 00:15:20,955
doing right now to set, your organization up

395
00:15:20,955 --> 00:15:22,174
for long term success?

396
00:15:23,754 --> 00:15:26,654
Well, we we we set up this, digital

397
00:15:26,794 --> 00:15:27,294
council,

398
00:15:28,339 --> 00:15:30,919
which is constituted from stakeholders

399
00:15:31,299 --> 00:15:32,339
from all over,

400
00:15:32,740 --> 00:15:33,559
our organization.

401
00:15:36,019 --> 00:15:38,899
And, we want that to be we we

402
00:15:38,899 --> 00:15:40,519
we are using that platform

403
00:15:41,034 --> 00:15:42,254
to help guide,

404
00:15:42,715 --> 00:15:43,695
where we go,

405
00:15:44,075 --> 00:15:45,134
at what speed,

406
00:15:45,595 --> 00:15:46,815
what are the priorities,

407
00:15:48,154 --> 00:15:49,534
and and the sequencing,

408
00:15:50,235 --> 00:15:51,115
of of our,

409
00:15:52,715 --> 00:15:54,975
of our evolution in this area.

410
00:15:55,379 --> 00:15:57,080
So, I think that's

411
00:15:57,540 --> 00:15:59,860
one of the critical components is to have

412
00:15:59,860 --> 00:16:02,519
a a complete a a broad engagement,

413
00:16:03,460 --> 00:16:04,840
from from the organization.

414
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:08,179
The other one is to make sure that

415
00:16:08,179 --> 00:16:09,559
we we elevate

416
00:16:09,940 --> 00:16:10,440
the

417
00:16:11,615 --> 00:16:14,654
the knowledge of people about the things that

418
00:16:14,654 --> 00:16:15,855
are that we are,

419
00:16:16,495 --> 00:16:18,034
putting to help them

420
00:16:18,335 --> 00:16:21,714
so they understand that nothing is a %

421
00:16:21,934 --> 00:16:22,995
perfect or

422
00:16:23,629 --> 00:16:24,129
infallible.

423
00:16:25,070 --> 00:16:27,710
Things will will fail here and there, and

424
00:16:27,710 --> 00:16:28,850
they may produce

425
00:16:29,309 --> 00:16:29,809
wrong

426
00:16:30,269 --> 00:16:30,769
outcomes.

427
00:16:31,789 --> 00:16:32,850
So it's important.

428
00:16:33,230 --> 00:16:35,169
And and, obviously, we want

429
00:16:35,629 --> 00:16:37,090
tools that will produce

430
00:16:37,475 --> 00:16:39,575
the least amount of that possible,

431
00:16:40,115 --> 00:16:41,175
close to zero.

432
00:16:41,555 --> 00:16:43,634
But but, you know, it's important that people

433
00:16:43,634 --> 00:16:44,134
understand

434
00:16:44,754 --> 00:16:48,695
that they also have to continue to reason

435
00:16:49,154 --> 00:16:52,779
and to, pay attention and to monitor how

436
00:16:52,779 --> 00:16:54,000
those, technologies

437
00:16:54,539 --> 00:16:55,259
are are,

438
00:16:55,659 --> 00:16:56,159
behaving.

439
00:16:56,860 --> 00:16:57,360
So

440
00:16:57,740 --> 00:16:59,419
in order to do that, we need to

441
00:16:59,419 --> 00:17:02,139
elevate the literacy of our people. They need

442
00:17:02,139 --> 00:17:04,539
to be educated, and that's one of the

443
00:17:04,539 --> 00:17:07,174
challenge one of the the big movements that

444
00:17:07,174 --> 00:17:08,875
we are trying to develop,

445
00:17:09,575 --> 00:17:10,075
starting

446
00:17:10,375 --> 00:17:12,775
with our own people, the people on the

447
00:17:12,775 --> 00:17:16,554
technical side, which were not prepared until recently

448
00:17:16,934 --> 00:17:18,154
for those innovations.

449
00:17:18,775 --> 00:17:21,275
And now we need to update their education

450
00:17:21,414 --> 00:17:22,315
and their knowledge,

451
00:17:22,809 --> 00:17:25,309
And we also need to raise the education

452
00:17:25,369 --> 00:17:28,250
and knowledge of everyone in the in the,

453
00:17:28,570 --> 00:17:30,589
health care business. So

454
00:17:31,049 --> 00:17:32,670
I think that, education

455
00:17:33,210 --> 00:17:35,630
because people in the end are the

456
00:17:36,065 --> 00:17:38,785
are not only the the target of what

457
00:17:38,785 --> 00:17:41,424
we do. We do everything for people because

458
00:17:41,424 --> 00:17:43,605
that's what health care is about.

459
00:17:44,224 --> 00:17:46,865
But we are also using people to,

460
00:17:47,424 --> 00:17:50,339
care about people. But we are using resources

461
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,419
that are not necessarily humans,

462
00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:54,099
like the digital ones.

463
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,339
But the humans need to understand

464
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,179
what those technologies,

465
00:17:59,119 --> 00:17:59,779
are doing,

466
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:01,539
and and that requires

467
00:18:01,919 --> 00:18:02,980
knowledge that

468
00:18:03,625 --> 00:18:06,284
most of our workforce don't have yet.

469
00:18:09,065 --> 00:18:11,784
Absolutely. That's fascinating to hear. And this seems

470
00:18:11,784 --> 00:18:13,784
like a really, really critical point of moving

471
00:18:13,784 --> 00:18:14,284
forward,

472
00:18:14,664 --> 00:18:16,904
having that right type of education knowledge base

473
00:18:16,904 --> 00:18:19,460
and then being able to truly unleash the

474
00:18:19,460 --> 00:18:22,180
technology plus human, side of things that can

475
00:18:22,180 --> 00:18:24,340
make, you know, health care so much more

476
00:18:24,340 --> 00:18:26,820
efficient and provide better outcomes and everything along

477
00:18:26,820 --> 00:18:27,480
those lines.

478
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:32,335
Doctor Tacanardi, thank you so much for joining

479
00:18:32,335 --> 00:18:34,015
us on the podcast today. This has been

480
00:18:34,015 --> 00:18:36,335
a very inspiring conversation, and I look forward

481
00:18:36,335 --> 00:18:37,954
to connecting with you again soon.

482
00:18:38,734 --> 00:18:40,914
Thank you. Thank you all for listening.