1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,000 Hello, everyone, and thank you for tuning in 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,160 to the Becker's Healthcare Podcast. We are thrilled 3 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,080 to be joined on-site here at Becker's Health 4 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,580 IT Digital Health RCM Conference in Chicago. 5 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,119 Today, I'm pleased to be joined with William 6 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,019 Chan, CEO and cofounder, Iodine Software. 7 00:00:14,394 --> 00:00:16,875 We're gonna discuss how AI driven solutions are 8 00:00:16,875 --> 00:00:19,434 transforming health care in the hospital revenue cycle 9 00:00:19,434 --> 00:00:21,914 space. William, thank you for being here. Thank 10 00:00:21,914 --> 00:00:23,614 you, Brian. It's a pleasure to be here. 11 00:00:23,754 --> 00:00:25,434 So so can you tell us just to 12 00:00:25,434 --> 00:00:27,600 get going here how the use of AI 13 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,939 in the hospital mid revenue cycle has transformed 14 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,519 over the past 3 to 5 years? I 15 00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:33,200 think it's been a pretty pretty, 16 00:00:33,679 --> 00:00:35,280 wild time in that regard. It it has 17 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,520 been very transformative. Yes. I'll I'll say there 18 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:38,259 there are probably 19 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,119 three things that kinda lead up to this. 20 00:00:41,119 --> 00:00:43,354 One, I'd say, is that 21 00:00:44,054 --> 00:00:44,554 documentation 22 00:00:45,575 --> 00:00:46,234 and the 23 00:00:46,614 --> 00:00:49,195 the need for accurate documentation has kind of 24 00:00:49,494 --> 00:00:51,835 risen to the level of being a critical 25 00:00:52,695 --> 00:00:55,914 set of data in health care, specifically RCM. 26 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:58,219 2nd is 27 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,239 the recognition by health systems and and the 28 00:01:01,239 --> 00:01:02,140 like that 29 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,079 the old ways of doing things, I. E. 30 00:01:05,079 --> 00:01:07,719 Just throwing labor at it, just Mhmm. Doesn't 31 00:01:07,719 --> 00:01:10,359 work. Right? COVID pooped that out to a 32 00:01:10,359 --> 00:01:11,099 great deal. 33 00:01:12,104 --> 00:01:14,284 Hence, it's brought us to this point where 34 00:01:14,584 --> 00:01:16,825 alternate solutions have to take place, and that 35 00:01:16,825 --> 00:01:19,224 alternate solution is AI. And then within the 36 00:01:19,224 --> 00:01:20,604 past 3 to 5 years, 37 00:01:20,905 --> 00:01:22,524 it's been the transformational 38 00:01:22,905 --> 00:01:23,405 evolution 39 00:01:23,864 --> 00:01:24,604 of AI 40 00:01:24,905 --> 00:01:27,450 from something that is more just of about 41 00:01:27,609 --> 00:01:28,430 general automation, 42 00:01:28,810 --> 00:01:31,930 that robotic process automation, RPA and all that 43 00:01:31,930 --> 00:01:32,989 kind of stuff, NLP, 44 00:01:33,609 --> 00:01:35,629 to something that is more 45 00:01:36,329 --> 00:01:36,829 transformative, 46 00:01:37,129 --> 00:01:39,149 gen AI, machine learning. 47 00:01:39,944 --> 00:01:43,005 And that's where the real change has occurred. 48 00:01:43,704 --> 00:01:46,265 And that continues to evolve. Right? Starting out 49 00:01:46,265 --> 00:01:48,844 with gen AI, you're talking about things where 50 00:01:48,984 --> 00:01:51,325 you can now summarize. You can now generate 51 00:01:51,465 --> 00:01:51,965 information 52 00:01:52,505 --> 00:01:53,005 accurately. 53 00:01:53,385 --> 00:01:55,340 Right? Right? You can summarize documentation. You can 54 00:01:55,340 --> 00:01:56,480 you can generate documentation 55 00:01:56,939 --> 00:01:57,439 effectively. 56 00:01:58,219 --> 00:01:59,920 The next level is really 57 00:02:00,219 --> 00:02:00,719 predicting. 58 00:02:01,260 --> 00:02:02,319 Mhmm. And, 59 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:04,540 this is where AI needs to get to 60 00:02:04,540 --> 00:02:06,319 evolve. But you're not just predicting 61 00:02:06,784 --> 00:02:09,425 things in general. You're predicting things within a 62 00:02:09,425 --> 00:02:10,485 clinical context. 63 00:02:11,025 --> 00:02:12,784 And AI has evolved to that point where 64 00:02:12,784 --> 00:02:15,425 I think, it's starting to understand the clinical 65 00:02:15,425 --> 00:02:15,925 context. 66 00:02:16,465 --> 00:02:18,064 And that, I think, is the big game 67 00:02:18,064 --> 00:02:20,465 changer for health care in general, certainly for 68 00:02:20,465 --> 00:02:20,965 RCM. 69 00:02:21,290 --> 00:02:23,389 Yeah. That's that's huge. That's a huge difference 70 00:02:23,450 --> 00:02:25,950 for AI to be understanding clinical context, 71 00:02:26,650 --> 00:02:28,969 has implications, of course, for RCM brought more 72 00:02:28,969 --> 00:02:30,650 broadly as well. Can you talk a little 73 00:02:30,650 --> 00:02:32,330 bit about just because this is such a 74 00:02:32,330 --> 00:02:34,349 transformative time and there's so much happening, 75 00:02:34,844 --> 00:02:35,805 What do you see where do you see 76 00:02:35,805 --> 00:02:37,004 this going in the future? A little bit 77 00:02:37,004 --> 00:02:39,245 more details there. But but importantly, how can 78 00:02:39,245 --> 00:02:41,585 hospitals and health systems kinda keep up here? 79 00:02:41,724 --> 00:02:43,885 Yeah. Because I do think there's probably a 80 00:02:43,885 --> 00:02:45,264 bit of a challenge in terms 81 00:02:45,645 --> 00:02:47,805 of where they're going to make investments, where 82 00:02:47,805 --> 00:02:49,965 they're paying attention, what's gonna yield the the 83 00:02:49,965 --> 00:02:51,699 greatest benefits to them. So can you share 84 00:02:51,699 --> 00:02:53,219 some more details on that? Yeah. I think 85 00:02:53,219 --> 00:02:54,840 the first part of it is that 86 00:02:55,219 --> 00:02:57,300 AI is gonna lead to better and better 87 00:02:57,300 --> 00:02:57,800 predictive 88 00:02:58,259 --> 00:02:58,759 results. 89 00:02:59,300 --> 00:03:01,699 Around RCM, I'm I'm not talking about the 90 00:03:01,699 --> 00:03:03,060 clinical aspect of a c 91 00:03:03,620 --> 00:03:05,959 of AI. That's a separate thing. Around 92 00:03:06,344 --> 00:03:08,444 RCM, the ability to predict, 93 00:03:08,824 --> 00:03:11,884 what will be an outcome from an administrative 94 00:03:12,025 --> 00:03:12,525 perspective. 95 00:03:12,905 --> 00:03:14,905 Should I admit the patient? Should I discharge 96 00:03:14,905 --> 00:03:16,924 the patient? Does this patient have the right 97 00:03:16,985 --> 00:03:18,840 level of care? Does this patient have the 98 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,060 most accurate documentation? 99 00:03:20,519 --> 00:03:22,360 I think AI is going to be able 100 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:23,659 to transform that 101 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,239 and make the human practitioners of this so 102 00:03:27,239 --> 00:03:30,139 much more efficient. Mhmm. How then do hospitals 103 00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:32,219 keep up with all of this? 104 00:03:32,599 --> 00:03:33,259 I think 105 00:03:34,164 --> 00:03:36,745 it's it's akin to the public private partnership, 106 00:03:36,965 --> 00:03:39,525 I I would say. Right? You want hospitals 107 00:03:39,685 --> 00:03:41,844 or I think hospitals would desire to be 108 00:03:41,844 --> 00:03:42,584 in partnership 109 00:03:42,965 --> 00:03:45,224 with vendors, with software developers. 110 00:03:45,844 --> 00:03:46,344 Because, 111 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:48,500 quite frankly, 112 00:03:49,199 --> 00:03:51,460 it's the vendors who are 1, 113 00:03:51,919 --> 00:03:52,419 innovating, 114 00:03:52,719 --> 00:03:55,120 and 2, they're trying to keep track and 115 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,500 stay on top of the latest technology. That's 116 00:03:58,719 --> 00:03:59,939 what vendors do. 117 00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:00,819 Hospitals, 118 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,980 they have the source of the data. 119 00:04:03,365 --> 00:04:05,544 And so that's how that's gonna feed into 120 00:04:06,085 --> 00:04:08,585 the large language models and machine language models. 121 00:04:08,645 --> 00:04:11,284 And they also have the clinical context that 122 00:04:11,284 --> 00:04:12,985 the vendors need to understand. 123 00:04:13,284 --> 00:04:15,685 So I think it's this partnership between the 124 00:04:15,685 --> 00:04:16,185 vendor 125 00:04:16,485 --> 00:04:18,745 and the hospital that will really allow 126 00:04:19,110 --> 00:04:21,350 hospitals to kinda keep up to date, if 127 00:04:21,350 --> 00:04:23,589 not stay at the forefront of this changing 128 00:04:23,589 --> 00:04:26,229 technology. Yeah. It's not realistic, I imagine, for 129 00:04:26,229 --> 00:04:27,430 for a hospital to be able to do 130 00:04:27,430 --> 00:04:29,110 what a vendor does in terms of keeping 131 00:04:29,110 --> 00:04:30,870 up with the advancement of technology. Yeah. I 132 00:04:30,870 --> 00:04:32,870 I think there'd be very few hospitals that 133 00:04:32,870 --> 00:04:34,310 would be able to do that. Right? I 134 00:04:34,310 --> 00:04:36,714 think first and foremost, I think, it's my 135 00:04:36,714 --> 00:04:38,714 belief that a hospital is there to take 136 00:04:38,714 --> 00:04:40,235 care of patients Correct. And to provide the 137 00:04:40,235 --> 00:04:42,154 best level of care you can. And technology 138 00:04:42,154 --> 00:04:43,435 is certainly a part of that. But I 139 00:04:43,435 --> 00:04:46,175 think that that partnership with a vendor will 140 00:04:46,555 --> 00:04:47,055 elevate 141 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:48,899 the hospital's ability to 142 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,399 deploy the most recent and most advanced technology 143 00:04:52,399 --> 00:04:54,240 to do that. Mhmm. I wanna get into 144 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,279 sort of, clinical documentation integrity here. Can you 145 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:58,579 talk a little bit about how 146 00:04:59,199 --> 00:05:02,294 you think organizations should be integrating CDI and 147 00:05:02,595 --> 00:05:04,115 What what what can you can you expand 148 00:05:04,115 --> 00:05:05,634 on that for our listeners? Sure. I I 149 00:05:05,634 --> 00:05:08,035 think the the interesting about clinical documentation and 150 00:05:08,035 --> 00:05:10,194 utilization management is that it's all really a 151 00:05:10,194 --> 00:05:12,375 part of the same continuum across 152 00:05:12,850 --> 00:05:14,290 rev cycle. And, you know, you can look 153 00:05:14,290 --> 00:05:16,290 at it from a mid rev cycle perspective, 154 00:05:16,290 --> 00:05:18,629 but it's really a part of the entire 155 00:05:18,689 --> 00:05:19,830 rev cycle. Documentation, 156 00:05:20,449 --> 00:05:23,029 the collection of information about the patient, 157 00:05:23,490 --> 00:05:24,870 is required to ensure 158 00:05:25,410 --> 00:05:27,029 proper utilization management. 159 00:05:27,555 --> 00:05:29,314 Has the patient got the right level of 160 00:05:29,314 --> 00:05:31,795 care? Should the patient be admitted, discharged? Where 161 00:05:31,795 --> 00:05:33,634 should the patient be placed? And then you've 162 00:05:33,634 --> 00:05:35,714 got to make sure that the documentation of 163 00:05:35,714 --> 00:05:37,955 patient while they are in the hospital is 164 00:05:37,955 --> 00:05:40,355 accurate, 1st and foremost, in order to have 165 00:05:40,355 --> 00:05:43,699 good patient care, better have good documentation quality. 166 00:05:43,699 --> 00:05:45,620 And of course, there's the reimbursement aspect of 167 00:05:45,620 --> 00:05:47,860 it. But I think all of this, from 168 00:05:47,860 --> 00:05:50,599 a hospital perspective, all of this ties to 169 00:05:51,060 --> 00:05:51,560 outcome. 170 00:05:52,019 --> 00:05:53,620 And there are 2 things here, right? 1 171 00:05:53,620 --> 00:05:55,300 is you want to be able to deliver 172 00:05:55,300 --> 00:05:57,425 the best care for the patient possible. 173 00:05:57,805 --> 00:05:59,084 And 2 is you want to be able 174 00:05:59,084 --> 00:05:59,985 to get paid 175 00:06:00,925 --> 00:06:03,245 accurately for the care that you delivered. And 176 00:06:03,245 --> 00:06:03,824 I think 177 00:06:04,605 --> 00:06:05,584 it's the combination 178 00:06:06,125 --> 00:06:06,625 of 179 00:06:06,925 --> 00:06:07,824 plus CDI 180 00:06:08,444 --> 00:06:09,185 that will 181 00:06:09,509 --> 00:06:11,769 collect all the information that is needed 182 00:06:12,149 --> 00:06:14,470 to ensure that the patient is getting the 183 00:06:14,470 --> 00:06:17,189 best care. It will also ensure that the 184 00:06:17,189 --> 00:06:19,050 hospital is then getting reimbursed 185 00:06:19,509 --> 00:06:21,750 at the right level for everything that they 186 00:06:21,750 --> 00:06:23,129 have done with the patient 187 00:06:23,625 --> 00:06:26,105 from admission all the way to discharge. And 188 00:06:26,105 --> 00:06:27,785 and, you know, it just strikes me that 189 00:06:27,785 --> 00:06:29,625 this sits in such a this this intersection 190 00:06:29,625 --> 00:06:32,345 between the the right care, the right care 191 00:06:32,345 --> 00:06:35,064 for patients, and also the the financial health 192 00:06:35,064 --> 00:06:35,884 of an organization. 193 00:06:36,790 --> 00:06:39,449 Curious if you could expand upon sort of 194 00:06:39,990 --> 00:06:42,149 what doing this, sort of what benefits it 195 00:06:42,149 --> 00:06:44,470 yields to to patients in the the organization, 196 00:06:44,470 --> 00:06:45,529 but also I think 197 00:06:45,830 --> 00:06:47,189 to staff. Right? 198 00:06:47,670 --> 00:06:50,230 Clinicians, I I imagine too if this is 199 00:06:50,230 --> 00:06:52,389 done appropriately, it can change their experience how 200 00:06:52,389 --> 00:06:54,525 how they, show up to work. Can you 201 00:06:54,525 --> 00:06:57,165 expand on that? Yeah. Definitely. That's that's very 202 00:06:57,165 --> 00:06:59,324 true. I think there there are few things 203 00:06:59,324 --> 00:06:59,964 that are, 204 00:07:00,365 --> 00:07:02,365 top of mind here. First off, it's the 205 00:07:02,365 --> 00:07:03,425 ability to collaborate. 206 00:07:04,045 --> 00:07:05,824 The information that is collected 207 00:07:06,379 --> 00:07:08,159 from a nurse during the process, 208 00:07:08,779 --> 00:07:11,099 the information that is collected or needed by 209 00:07:11,099 --> 00:07:12,319 the CDI specialist, 210 00:07:12,620 --> 00:07:15,099 it's all the same type of information. So 211 00:07:15,099 --> 00:07:17,759 a collaboration between those two departments 212 00:07:18,139 --> 00:07:19,039 is critical. 213 00:07:19,845 --> 00:07:22,264 The better they collaborate, the more transparent 214 00:07:23,205 --> 00:07:25,045 the information is going to be, the better 215 00:07:25,045 --> 00:07:27,045 the care, the better the reimbursement, so on 216 00:07:27,045 --> 00:07:29,045 and so forth. The second part of it 217 00:07:29,045 --> 00:07:30,964 is that all this information also needs to 218 00:07:30,964 --> 00:07:33,540 be put in front of the physician, whether 219 00:07:33,540 --> 00:07:37,000 it's a physician advisor managing the utilization management 220 00:07:37,060 --> 00:07:39,939 process or a physician managing the patient during 221 00:07:39,939 --> 00:07:41,079 the inpatient stay. 222 00:07:41,699 --> 00:07:45,160 Again, the collaborative aspect allows all this information 223 00:07:45,220 --> 00:07:47,564 to flow directly to the physician and back 224 00:07:47,964 --> 00:07:49,904 in a much smoother manner. 225 00:07:50,205 --> 00:07:51,264 And then the transparency 226 00:07:51,725 --> 00:07:53,105 of all of this information 227 00:07:53,725 --> 00:07:56,524 will allow things to be resolved a lot 228 00:07:56,524 --> 00:07:59,324 quicker. Any issues will be resolved. You don't 229 00:07:59,324 --> 00:08:01,324 want to have all this information in silos. 230 00:08:01,324 --> 00:08:03,449 And that's what's been happening. All of this 231 00:08:03,449 --> 00:08:05,129 information, you know, you got the silo. You 232 00:08:05,129 --> 00:08:06,889 got a CDI silo. You got a physician 233 00:08:06,889 --> 00:08:09,210 care silo. Right? All of these need to 234 00:08:09,210 --> 00:08:11,790 be combined and information has to 235 00:08:12,170 --> 00:08:12,670 flow 236 00:08:13,050 --> 00:08:14,990 smoothly between all of these entities. 237 00:08:15,345 --> 00:08:17,504 Yeah. And it it stands to reason that 238 00:08:17,504 --> 00:08:19,185 if you achieve that, that's gonna change the 239 00:08:19,185 --> 00:08:20,225 game for a lot of a lot of 240 00:08:20,225 --> 00:08:22,645 different Exactly. Right. Right. You you expect 241 00:08:23,105 --> 00:08:24,964 that once you are able to do that, 242 00:08:25,504 --> 00:08:28,404 better patient care because everyone's talking. Mhmm. Right? 243 00:08:28,569 --> 00:08:31,449 And better reimbursement because everyone's got the right 244 00:08:31,449 --> 00:08:34,009 information that ultimately flows into the bill that 245 00:08:34,009 --> 00:08:36,250 gets dropped. Excellent. Well, William, I think that's 246 00:08:36,250 --> 00:08:37,850 a great place for us to conclude. It's 247 00:08:37,850 --> 00:08:39,690 been a pleasure speaking with you today. Alright. 248 00:08:39,690 --> 00:08:41,865 Thank you, Brian. I also wanna thank our 249 00:08:41,865 --> 00:08:44,745 podcast sponsor, Iodine Software. You can tune into 250 00:08:44,745 --> 00:08:47,144 more podcasts from Becker's Healthcare by visiting our 251 00:08:47,144 --> 00:08:48,764 podcast page at beckershospitalreview.com/podcast.