1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,580 Imagine this. You're in the heart of Chicago 2 00:00:02,639 --> 00:00:05,059 mingling with the brightest minds in health IT. 3 00:00:05,279 --> 00:00:07,839 You've arrived at the 9th annual Health IT 4 00:00:07,839 --> 00:00:11,439 plus Digital Health Plus RCM conference taking place 5 00:00:11,439 --> 00:00:14,424 October 1st through 4th at the luxurious Hyatt 6 00:00:14,424 --> 00:00:15,484 Regency Chicago. 7 00:00:15,945 --> 00:00:18,664 Picture the excitement as you collect countless business 8 00:00:18,664 --> 00:00:22,425 cards, forging invaluable connections with over 25 100 9 00:00:22,425 --> 00:00:23,884 executive level attendees. 10 00:00:24,425 --> 00:00:26,585 Feel the buzz of ideas flowing as you 11 00:00:26,585 --> 00:00:29,460 engage in meaningful conversations about the future of 12 00:00:29,460 --> 00:00:30,440 healthcare technology. 13 00:00:30,980 --> 00:00:34,200 Envision yourself attending sessions led by over 415 14 00:00:35,140 --> 00:00:36,039 elite speakers, 15 00:00:36,420 --> 00:00:39,000 gaining insights that could transform your organization. 16 00:00:39,539 --> 00:00:43,015 From digital transformation and telehealth to clinician burnout 17 00:00:43,015 --> 00:00:43,755 and cybersecurity, 18 00:00:44,615 --> 00:00:47,174 each topic is designed to spark new ideas 19 00:00:47,174 --> 00:00:49,895 and provide actionable takeaways, but it doesn't stop 20 00:00:49,895 --> 00:00:53,015 there. Imagine sitting in a packed auditorium listening 21 00:00:53,015 --> 00:00:55,210 to motivating keynotes from some of the biggest 22 00:00:55,210 --> 00:00:58,189 names in sports. Four time Super Bowl champion, 23 00:00:58,250 --> 00:00:58,990 Rob Gronkowski, 24 00:00:59,689 --> 00:01:00,189 WNBA 25 00:01:00,570 --> 00:01:02,509 champion, and author, Lisa Leslie, 26 00:01:02,890 --> 00:01:04,829 and NFL legend and ESPN 27 00:01:05,209 --> 00:01:05,709 analyst, 28 00:01:06,010 --> 00:01:08,564 Eli Manning, will be there sharing their stories 29 00:01:08,564 --> 00:01:11,525 and inspiring you to reach new heights. All 30 00:01:11,525 --> 00:01:14,244 around you, the future of health IT unfolds, 31 00:01:14,244 --> 00:01:15,784 and you're not just a spectator. 32 00:01:16,165 --> 00:01:17,784 You're an active participant. 33 00:01:18,244 --> 00:01:20,484 Don't wait. You can find the event website 34 00:01:20,484 --> 00:01:22,905 and get registered by visiting peckershospital 35 00:01:23,420 --> 00:01:25,852 hospitalreview.com and clicking on the events page. That's 36 00:01:25,852 --> 00:01:27,200 the beckershospitalreview.com events page. 37 00:01:27,659 --> 00:01:28,959 This is Laura Dierda 38 00:01:29,819 --> 00:01:31,200 with the Becker's 39 00:01:31,899 --> 00:01:33,649 Healthcare podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined 40 00:01:33,649 --> 00:01:34,799 by Stephen Michaels, 41 00:01:37,585 --> 00:01:40,704 vice president and chief technology officer at Baylor 42 00:01:40,704 --> 00:01:42,944 Scott and White Health. Steven, it's a pleasure 43 00:01:42,944 --> 00:01:44,405 to have you on the podcast today. 44 00:01:45,665 --> 00:01:47,365 Yeah. It's a pleasure to be here. 45 00:01:48,145 --> 00:01:49,825 Well, thank you so much for joining us, 46 00:01:49,825 --> 00:01:51,344 and, you know, I'm really looking forward to 47 00:01:51,344 --> 00:01:53,460 learning more about how you're thinking about technology 48 00:01:53,460 --> 00:01:55,780 at Baylor Scott and White and certainly some 49 00:01:55,780 --> 00:01:57,299 of the cool things that you have on 50 00:01:57,299 --> 00:01:59,219 tap. But before we dive into that discussion, 51 00:01:59,219 --> 00:02:00,420 can you tell me a little bit more 52 00:02:00,420 --> 00:02:01,719 about yourself and your background? 53 00:02:03,219 --> 00:02:05,939 Yeah. Absolutely. I think the the best way 54 00:02:05,939 --> 00:02:08,120 to kinda describe who I am is, 55 00:02:08,819 --> 00:02:10,284 I I try to live a life of 56 00:02:10,284 --> 00:02:10,784 purpose. 57 00:02:11,085 --> 00:02:13,805 And so for me, that's that's kinda 3 58 00:02:13,805 --> 00:02:16,284 chief categories of of my faith and my 59 00:02:16,284 --> 00:02:17,905 family and my and my profession. 60 00:02:18,764 --> 00:02:21,504 And, you know, you know, balancing those, 61 00:02:22,099 --> 00:02:24,419 the best that I possibly can. You know, 62 00:02:24,659 --> 00:02:26,359 I I've started my career, 63 00:02:26,659 --> 00:02:28,739 off in the United States Air Force. So 64 00:02:28,739 --> 00:02:31,299 one of the best decisions I ever made 65 00:02:31,299 --> 00:02:34,579 because it really helped build a foundation that 66 00:02:34,579 --> 00:02:35,400 I've used 67 00:02:35,775 --> 00:02:36,915 throughout my career, 68 00:02:37,294 --> 00:02:38,594 you know, from just 69 00:02:38,895 --> 00:02:40,754 a a whole mindset of continuous 70 00:02:41,055 --> 00:02:41,555 improvement 71 00:02:42,335 --> 00:02:43,955 and, you know, being creative 72 00:02:44,335 --> 00:02:45,775 and and and, you know, 73 00:02:46,335 --> 00:02:48,120 structured and disciplined about, 74 00:02:48,599 --> 00:02:49,819 you know, what I do. 75 00:02:50,599 --> 00:02:51,819 And, you know, whenever 76 00:02:52,199 --> 00:02:53,659 I came into health care 77 00:02:53,959 --> 00:02:55,879 a little more than 15 years ago, I 78 00:02:55,879 --> 00:02:58,280 just fell in love with kind of this 79 00:02:58,280 --> 00:02:59,500 this serving, 80 00:03:00,519 --> 00:03:01,004 the health 81 00:03:01,885 --> 00:03:04,224 community, our patients, and patient families, 82 00:03:04,764 --> 00:03:06,685 and just love what I do. As much 83 00:03:06,685 --> 00:03:08,205 as I loved when I was serving in 84 00:03:08,205 --> 00:03:09,564 the air force, it was almost like I 85 00:03:09,564 --> 00:03:11,025 found a new way to serve 86 00:03:11,325 --> 00:03:13,325 when I when I joined health care, specifically 87 00:03:13,325 --> 00:03:15,885 whenever I got into hospital systems. It's just 88 00:03:15,885 --> 00:03:16,625 such a, 89 00:03:16,990 --> 00:03:19,409 an amazing environment to be in. And, 90 00:03:19,790 --> 00:03:21,550 you know, if you don't love what you 91 00:03:21,550 --> 00:03:24,110 do and you're in health care hospital systems, 92 00:03:24,110 --> 00:03:25,569 you're in the wrong place 93 00:03:26,030 --> 00:03:27,150 because, you know, 94 00:03:27,469 --> 00:03:29,310 every day when I go into work, you 95 00:03:29,310 --> 00:03:31,310 know, it's it's not unusual to hear a 96 00:03:31,310 --> 00:03:34,284 helicopter coming overhead and and people aren't riding 97 00:03:34,284 --> 00:03:36,365 those helicopters for joy rides. And it but 98 00:03:36,365 --> 00:03:37,264 it really helps, 99 00:03:38,205 --> 00:03:40,685 set your mindset as as having a real 100 00:03:40,685 --> 00:03:42,385 purpose about what you're doing. 101 00:03:42,764 --> 00:03:45,540 And I tell people that right now, as 102 00:03:45,540 --> 00:03:46,280 we're talking 103 00:03:46,819 --> 00:03:48,819 at Baylor Scott and White somewhere, and really 104 00:03:48,819 --> 00:03:51,319 any hospital system, someone is having 105 00:03:51,699 --> 00:03:54,439 either their best day or their worst day. 106 00:03:54,580 --> 00:03:56,580 They're either, you know, welcoming a new baby, 107 00:03:56,580 --> 00:03:57,479 which is amazing, 108 00:03:57,939 --> 00:04:00,275 or they are saying goodbye to a loved 109 00:04:00,275 --> 00:04:02,435 one. And so we have to keep that 110 00:04:02,435 --> 00:04:04,355 in mind every day, and and it really 111 00:04:04,355 --> 00:04:05,735 helps keep us grounded. 112 00:04:06,034 --> 00:04:07,635 But it's just something that I love. I 113 00:04:07,635 --> 00:04:08,694 love giving back. 114 00:04:09,955 --> 00:04:11,875 Oh, that's amazing to hear. And, certainly, you 115 00:04:11,875 --> 00:04:13,794 know, what a great perspective to have in 116 00:04:13,794 --> 00:04:16,009 knowing, you know, just the wide variety of 117 00:04:16,009 --> 00:04:18,669 experiences people are having in the hospital setting, 118 00:04:19,290 --> 00:04:21,290 you know, in being able to meet them 119 00:04:21,290 --> 00:04:24,089 where they are and understand how each particular 120 00:04:24,089 --> 00:04:26,410 journey can be just a great opportunity to 121 00:04:26,410 --> 00:04:28,970 support the community and support patients and and 122 00:04:28,970 --> 00:04:31,314 really serve and give back as you said. 123 00:04:31,615 --> 00:04:34,035 Now from your vantage point as chief technology 124 00:04:34,175 --> 00:04:36,095 officer, what are some of the opportunities you 125 00:04:36,095 --> 00:04:37,535 have your eye on right now as well 126 00:04:37,535 --> 00:04:39,455 as the headwinds that you have to keep 127 00:04:39,455 --> 00:04:40,274 front of mind? 128 00:04:41,375 --> 00:04:44,360 Yeah. Absolutely. I think everybody in my position 129 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,500 and and probably generally across health care, 130 00:04:48,039 --> 00:04:50,360 I think of this as there there's really 131 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,639 3 for me. 1, 1st and foremost, that 132 00:04:53,639 --> 00:04:55,579 that is really in across 133 00:04:55,925 --> 00:04:57,625 health care is the cybersecurity 134 00:04:58,165 --> 00:04:58,665 threats. 135 00:04:59,125 --> 00:05:01,524 And, you know, they're they're they're increasingly more 136 00:05:01,524 --> 00:05:02,425 and more sophisticated, 137 00:05:02,805 --> 00:05:03,944 you know, the ransomware 138 00:05:04,324 --> 00:05:05,225 data breaches, 139 00:05:05,845 --> 00:05:08,899 our supply chains, you know, being attacked and 140 00:05:08,899 --> 00:05:10,500 and that sort of stuff. A a lot 141 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:11,560 of our 3rd party, 142 00:05:12,339 --> 00:05:14,979 partners are are being hit, and so it's 143 00:05:14,979 --> 00:05:17,159 it's it takes a lot of our, 144 00:05:18,099 --> 00:05:19,240 effort and, 145 00:05:19,699 --> 00:05:23,164 focus to to, you know, try to protect 146 00:05:23,164 --> 00:05:25,264 those patients like we were just talking about. 147 00:05:26,285 --> 00:05:28,444 Additionally, you know, across health care, there are 148 00:05:28,444 --> 00:05:29,985 talent shortages, and, 149 00:05:30,365 --> 00:05:32,544 you know, it's one of those things that, 150 00:05:33,564 --> 00:05:36,144 you know, is is really probably going to 151 00:05:36,284 --> 00:05:39,019 hit a lot of industries, especially for roles 152 00:05:39,079 --> 00:05:41,879 that, you know, require people to, you know, 153 00:05:41,879 --> 00:05:44,600 physically come into an environment, every day, like 154 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,939 our nurses and physicians and things like that. 155 00:05:47,079 --> 00:05:48,779 And so, you know, a lot of, 156 00:05:49,394 --> 00:05:52,675 jobs now, even my own, has a tremendous 157 00:05:52,675 --> 00:05:54,274 amount of flexibility. You know, I could work 158 00:05:54,274 --> 00:05:55,714 from home. I can come into the office. 159 00:05:55,714 --> 00:05:58,035 I could do, different things. I I prefer 160 00:05:58,035 --> 00:06:00,355 to come into the office, but, but that's 161 00:06:00,355 --> 00:06:02,115 just because I like I like being around 162 00:06:02,115 --> 00:06:02,615 people. 163 00:06:03,060 --> 00:06:05,620 But, but, you know, challenges shortages are a 164 00:06:05,620 --> 00:06:06,439 real deal, 165 00:06:06,899 --> 00:06:09,460 specifically in nursing, and and it's even more 166 00:06:09,460 --> 00:06:11,779 so in rural areas. That that's a real 167 00:06:11,779 --> 00:06:13,800 health care challenge for us as a country, 168 00:06:14,020 --> 00:06:16,520 something that we'll have to focus on and 169 00:06:17,324 --> 00:06:19,324 and and deal with. And then, you know, 170 00:06:19,324 --> 00:06:21,644 there's the technical debt. And from from a 171 00:06:21,644 --> 00:06:24,604 hospital consolidation that has happened over, you know, 172 00:06:24,604 --> 00:06:27,564 the last 20 years or so, what's happened 173 00:06:27,564 --> 00:06:29,420 is, you know, some various technologies have been 174 00:06:29,420 --> 00:06:29,894 incorporated into a larger enterprise. And those, I 175 00:06:29,894 --> 00:06:30,394 think, 176 00:06:31,459 --> 00:06:31,959 constant 177 00:06:32,500 --> 00:06:33,250 focus on 178 00:06:45,745 --> 00:06:47,365 really rationalizing the technology, 179 00:06:47,745 --> 00:06:50,865 modernizing it, and, you know, trying to absorb 180 00:06:50,865 --> 00:06:52,805 and overcome some of that technology, 181 00:06:53,264 --> 00:06:53,764 debt. 182 00:06:54,865 --> 00:06:56,384 I think that makes a lot of sense. 183 00:06:56,384 --> 00:06:58,970 You know, it is really a fascinating array 184 00:06:58,970 --> 00:07:01,289 of challenges and things you're keeping your eye 185 00:07:01,289 --> 00:07:03,850 on from, as you mentioned, cybersecurity, not only 186 00:07:03,850 --> 00:07:04,329 for, 187 00:07:04,810 --> 00:07:07,050 Baylor Scott and White, but for your vendors 188 00:07:07,050 --> 00:07:09,209 and third party partners as well. It's just 189 00:07:09,209 --> 00:07:10,250 so crucial to, 190 00:07:10,889 --> 00:07:12,430 make sure everything that's 191 00:07:12,834 --> 00:07:15,495 happening, you know, and that you can control, 192 00:07:16,034 --> 00:07:18,514 is controlled, but then to just being prepared 193 00:07:18,514 --> 00:07:20,774 for the moment when it happens as well. 194 00:07:21,235 --> 00:07:23,794 And then, you know, looking across the workforce 195 00:07:23,794 --> 00:07:24,854 and talent shortages, 196 00:07:25,235 --> 00:07:27,689 I can imagine on the clinical side and 197 00:07:27,689 --> 00:07:29,990 to some degree, you know, the technology, 198 00:07:31,569 --> 00:07:34,209 skills and and advancements in the technology just 199 00:07:34,209 --> 00:07:36,209 makes it hard to keep up sometimes. And 200 00:07:36,209 --> 00:07:38,449 so, you know, really a lot to think 201 00:07:38,449 --> 00:07:38,949 about. 202 00:07:39,329 --> 00:07:41,250 But in particular, when you're looking at the 203 00:07:41,250 --> 00:07:43,029 technical debt that you just mentioned, 204 00:07:43,535 --> 00:07:44,975 how do you try to stay on top 205 00:07:44,975 --> 00:07:46,735 of that at Baylor Scott and White? Is 206 00:07:46,735 --> 00:07:49,134 there processes that you put in place or 207 00:07:49,134 --> 00:07:50,814 or or a certain philosophy that you think 208 00:07:50,814 --> 00:07:52,735 about things so that you're putting yourself in 209 00:07:52,735 --> 00:07:53,235 the, 210 00:07:53,615 --> 00:07:56,274 best position to optimize that in the future? 211 00:07:57,110 --> 00:07:58,710 Yeah. Really, it it it has a lot 212 00:07:58,710 --> 00:08:00,310 to do with, you know, 1st and foremost 213 00:08:00,310 --> 00:08:03,050 aligning to the organization and what the organization's 214 00:08:03,189 --> 00:08:04,009 goals are. 215 00:08:04,389 --> 00:08:05,770 For someone in my position, 216 00:08:06,149 --> 00:08:09,350 you have to think of any dollar I 217 00:08:09,350 --> 00:08:10,649 spend as 218 00:08:11,095 --> 00:08:13,894 taking a dollar away from patient care potentially. 219 00:08:13,894 --> 00:08:14,714 Right? So 220 00:08:15,175 --> 00:08:16,954 so we have to be careful 221 00:08:17,415 --> 00:08:18,794 about, you know, 222 00:08:19,735 --> 00:08:20,235 misinvestments, 223 00:08:20,615 --> 00:08:23,415 you know, putting money towards a technology that 224 00:08:23,415 --> 00:08:25,334 maybe doesn't prove out to be what it 225 00:08:25,334 --> 00:08:28,389 what it, needs to be, but also, you 226 00:08:28,389 --> 00:08:32,149 know, being, conscious of, you know, that debt 227 00:08:32,149 --> 00:08:34,789 that is aging technology that is going to 228 00:08:34,789 --> 00:08:38,730 become increasingly, increasingly problematic either from a 229 00:08:40,154 --> 00:08:41,375 reliability perspective, 230 00:08:41,914 --> 00:08:44,394 and certainly from a cyber perspective because you'll 231 00:08:44,394 --> 00:08:46,475 end up with technology that is no longer 232 00:08:46,475 --> 00:08:48,014 supported, and that becomes 233 00:08:48,315 --> 00:08:49,615 a a real problem. 234 00:08:50,074 --> 00:08:51,695 And so then you're you're, 235 00:08:52,009 --> 00:08:54,970 you know, investing time and and tech and 236 00:08:54,970 --> 00:08:57,529 efforts around trying to protect it. So so 237 00:08:57,529 --> 00:08:59,210 that's that's a real challenge. You know, for 238 00:08:59,210 --> 00:09:01,629 for us, you know, we we kinda have, 239 00:09:01,690 --> 00:09:02,990 you know, a structure 240 00:09:03,370 --> 00:09:03,870 around, 241 00:09:04,654 --> 00:09:07,054 strategic partners. So, for example, we are an 242 00:09:07,054 --> 00:09:07,875 Epic shop. 243 00:09:08,414 --> 00:09:11,294 And when we rationalize technology, what we're trying 244 00:09:11,294 --> 00:09:13,454 to do is take advantage of some of 245 00:09:13,454 --> 00:09:15,454 those strategic partnerships because there's a lot of 246 00:09:15,454 --> 00:09:17,774 things that Epic can do that maybe we 247 00:09:17,774 --> 00:09:18,274 are, 248 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,659 providing today with some other third party. 249 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,320 And so it's it's it's really simplifying the 250 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,039 environment and kinda bringing the technology into some 251 00:09:28,039 --> 00:09:30,279 of those larger investments. And so that kinda 252 00:09:30,279 --> 00:09:31,879 becomes a win win because it makes the 253 00:09:31,879 --> 00:09:35,555 environment a lot more streamlined and simple for 254 00:09:35,555 --> 00:09:37,626 the organization, but it also, 255 00:09:38,041 --> 00:09:41,355 allows us to deliver the technology in a 256 00:09:41,355 --> 00:09:41,769 more, 257 00:09:42,184 --> 00:09:42,598 economical, 258 00:09:43,012 --> 00:09:44,669 way for the organization. 259 00:09:45,470 --> 00:09:46,829 That makes a lot of sense, you know, 260 00:09:46,829 --> 00:09:48,909 and I truly appreciate you digging one bit 261 00:09:48,909 --> 00:09:51,230 deeper there. Now how are you thinking about 262 00:09:51,230 --> 00:09:53,149 growth and adding value to Baylor Scott and 263 00:09:53,149 --> 00:09:55,070 White over the next few years or so? 264 00:09:55,070 --> 00:09:56,829 How do you do that from the technology 265 00:09:56,829 --> 00:09:58,829 side, especially as you mentioned, you know, thinking 266 00:09:58,829 --> 00:10:01,644 critically about health care dollars, the investments that 267 00:10:01,644 --> 00:10:04,225 you're making, and and truly understanding the support 268 00:10:04,365 --> 00:10:06,464 for clinical care and caregivers? 269 00:10:07,804 --> 00:10:09,964 Sure. You know, it it's it's really critical, 270 00:10:09,964 --> 00:10:12,684 like I mentioned earlier, that I align to 271 00:10:12,684 --> 00:10:13,095 the organizational, 272 00:10:14,460 --> 00:10:14,960 objectives, 273 00:10:15,340 --> 00:10:15,840 which, 274 00:10:16,860 --> 00:10:18,480 for for any technologist, 275 00:10:19,179 --> 00:10:22,240 means that you need to understand them. Unfortunately, 276 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:25,600 sometimes in, IT, 277 00:10:25,980 --> 00:10:26,480 we 278 00:10:27,115 --> 00:10:29,134 kinda become really good at technology, 279 00:10:29,915 --> 00:10:31,215 and we become increasingly 280 00:10:31,674 --> 00:10:32,174 disconnected 281 00:10:32,475 --> 00:10:34,815 from the actual businesses that we support. 282 00:10:35,514 --> 00:10:37,754 And that's that's a problem because, you know, 283 00:10:37,754 --> 00:10:39,674 you kinda think about, like, you know, if 284 00:10:39,674 --> 00:10:41,595 if I want to expand, you know, kind 285 00:10:41,595 --> 00:10:42,654 of my horizons, 286 00:10:43,169 --> 00:10:45,409 you know, beyond of just maybe being good 287 00:10:45,409 --> 00:10:48,049 at technology and understanding that, in my world, 288 00:10:48,049 --> 00:10:49,830 I need to become a health care professional 289 00:10:49,889 --> 00:10:50,389 first. 290 00:10:51,009 --> 00:10:52,610 So, you know, if you think about, like, 291 00:10:52,610 --> 00:10:54,450 if if, you know, you and I worked 292 00:10:54,450 --> 00:10:56,715 for a car dealership, for example, and I 293 00:10:56,715 --> 00:10:58,554 could be amazing at technology. But if I 294 00:10:58,554 --> 00:11:00,794 don't know the first thing about how to 295 00:11:00,794 --> 00:11:02,014 buy and sell cars, 296 00:11:02,475 --> 00:11:05,355 then my technical abilities are gonna bring limited 297 00:11:05,355 --> 00:11:05,855 value. 298 00:11:06,315 --> 00:11:08,154 And so if you think about the, you 299 00:11:08,154 --> 00:11:10,735 know, the challenges that the health care systems 300 00:11:10,794 --> 00:11:11,899 are facing today, 301 00:11:12,279 --> 00:11:14,680 you know, the ability to provide quality care 302 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:17,320 and operate efficiently. You know, we've kinda talked 303 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:18,779 about staffing shortages, 304 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,059 but there's also financial pressures, you know, of, 305 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:25,815 you know, you know, kinda declining reimbursement rates, 306 00:11:26,375 --> 00:11:27,914 from, you know, the payers, 307 00:11:28,215 --> 00:11:30,695 you know, our increased operational costs, like what's 308 00:11:30,695 --> 00:11:33,095 happening to everybody with, you know, the cost 309 00:11:33,095 --> 00:11:35,014 of goods, going up the way that it 310 00:11:35,014 --> 00:11:38,615 is. And that financial strain is is really, 311 00:11:39,014 --> 00:11:40,475 you know, putting a lot of pressure, 312 00:11:41,039 --> 00:11:43,279 in in health care. But and and, ultimately, 313 00:11:43,279 --> 00:11:44,879 I guess, the last one I would say 314 00:11:44,879 --> 00:11:47,600 is, you know, patient care and safety. Right? 315 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,399 So so that's the paramount at at everything 316 00:11:50,399 --> 00:11:53,440 we do. That's that's the, the zero fail 317 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,315 mission. Like, we we can't have patient safety, 318 00:11:56,615 --> 00:11:59,175 put at risk or whatever. And so, you 319 00:11:59,175 --> 00:12:01,575 know, so so for me to kinda get 320 00:12:01,575 --> 00:12:03,495 to your question about adding value, I have 321 00:12:03,495 --> 00:12:04,634 to truly understand, 322 00:12:05,894 --> 00:12:08,535 those impacts to the organization. And so whenever 323 00:12:08,535 --> 00:12:10,535 I'm making a decision about, like, okay. I 324 00:12:10,535 --> 00:12:13,309 wanna do a new contact center, for example, 325 00:12:13,309 --> 00:12:16,029 because maybe my existing contact center is end 326 00:12:16,029 --> 00:12:18,110 of life or whatever, I have to think 327 00:12:18,110 --> 00:12:21,250 about, like, well, we have challenges with staffing, 328 00:12:21,470 --> 00:12:23,470 and I need to make sure that, you 329 00:12:23,470 --> 00:12:25,915 know, from a cost perspective, I'm bringing the 330 00:12:25,915 --> 00:12:28,394 right model, the right model that makes sense, 331 00:12:28,394 --> 00:12:30,715 like, whether I'm gonna capitalize expense or I'm 332 00:12:30,715 --> 00:12:32,575 going to go with some sort of subscription 333 00:12:32,634 --> 00:12:35,115 model or whatever. And then, ultimately, at the 334 00:12:35,115 --> 00:12:36,475 end of the day, like, what is the 335 00:12:36,475 --> 00:12:38,715 impact to patients? And am I improving that 336 00:12:38,715 --> 00:12:39,215 impact, 337 00:12:40,090 --> 00:12:41,309 to to patients? And, 338 00:12:41,690 --> 00:12:44,090 you know, otherwise, I could just go and 339 00:12:44,090 --> 00:12:46,410 pick a solution and kinda be oblivious to 340 00:12:46,410 --> 00:12:49,850 what's happening to my, organization or the the 341 00:12:49,850 --> 00:12:50,669 health care 342 00:12:50,970 --> 00:12:52,190 population as a whole 343 00:12:52,570 --> 00:12:54,410 and and just really not be that effective, 344 00:12:54,410 --> 00:12:56,695 frankly. And and I think that's something that 345 00:12:56,695 --> 00:12:59,014 as, you know, technologists are kinda going through 346 00:12:59,014 --> 00:13:01,014 their career, you really need to think about 347 00:13:01,014 --> 00:13:02,774 that. You need to there there is a 348 00:13:02,774 --> 00:13:05,335 point at which, you know, you'll reach a 349 00:13:05,335 --> 00:13:08,375 level that it is more and more critical 350 00:13:08,375 --> 00:13:11,159 that you understand your business and, you know, 351 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,559 not always just look through the lens of, 352 00:13:13,879 --> 00:13:14,860 you know, technology. 353 00:13:16,279 --> 00:13:18,679 That's such a fascinating point. And especially, I 354 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,240 can imagine for, as you said, people who 355 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,319 are are raised with that technology background to 356 00:13:23,319 --> 00:13:25,815 really just think first and foremost on, 357 00:13:26,934 --> 00:13:28,394 the logic of of technical, 358 00:13:29,174 --> 00:13:32,294 capabilities. And from that perspective, thinking more globally 359 00:13:32,294 --> 00:13:35,095 and understanding the business impact is not always 360 00:13:35,095 --> 00:13:37,495 an easy transition to make, but certainly a 361 00:13:37,495 --> 00:13:39,654 crucial one, especially in health care as the 362 00:13:39,654 --> 00:13:40,154 business 363 00:13:40,460 --> 00:13:42,799 margins are are getting tighter and others are, 364 00:13:43,179 --> 00:13:45,200 you know, really needing to 365 00:13:45,820 --> 00:13:48,779 find support, with technology for the broader health 366 00:13:48,779 --> 00:13:51,200 system. So it's fascinating to hear. 367 00:13:51,899 --> 00:13:54,320 From your perspective, in in along those lines, 368 00:13:54,379 --> 00:13:56,565 what are is one risk or investment that's 369 00:13:56,565 --> 00:13:58,264 still worth making this year, especially 370 00:13:58,804 --> 00:14:00,345 given, you know, those challenges 371 00:14:00,804 --> 00:14:02,904 in the idea that, you know, 372 00:14:03,605 --> 00:14:05,384 budgets and spending isn't unlimited? 373 00:14:06,725 --> 00:14:07,704 Yeah. So, 374 00:14:08,149 --> 00:14:10,410 you know, there is one risk, 375 00:14:11,190 --> 00:14:12,009 or investment 376 00:14:12,549 --> 00:14:14,970 that in from my perspective 377 00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:18,330 is always worth it, and and that is 378 00:14:19,029 --> 00:14:21,129 the investment that we make in our people. 379 00:14:21,914 --> 00:14:23,035 You know, the, 380 00:14:23,835 --> 00:14:26,315 the solutions that we deliver and all of 381 00:14:26,315 --> 00:14:27,855 the opportunities and problems 382 00:14:28,315 --> 00:14:29,855 that we face, 383 00:14:30,394 --> 00:14:32,575 all the stuff we talked about today, right, 384 00:14:32,955 --> 00:14:34,495 every single one of those 385 00:14:35,210 --> 00:14:36,429 are solved by people. 386 00:14:37,049 --> 00:14:39,370 So, so in my world, when I say 387 00:14:39,370 --> 00:14:42,009 people, I I'm not just specifically talking about, 388 00:14:42,009 --> 00:14:43,929 you know, Baylor Scott and White employees. You 389 00:14:43,929 --> 00:14:46,570 know, people that get a paycheck from the 390 00:14:46,570 --> 00:14:49,855 hospital system. That expands into all of our 391 00:14:49,855 --> 00:14:52,735 various partners, you know, whether it is, you 392 00:14:52,735 --> 00:14:55,774 know, you know, managed services that we have 393 00:14:55,774 --> 00:14:58,434 or technology professional services 394 00:14:59,375 --> 00:15:02,115 and and and beyond, frankly. And so, 395 00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:04,250 you know, if I'm going to take a 396 00:15:04,250 --> 00:15:07,209 risk and, you know, give something a chance, 397 00:15:07,209 --> 00:15:09,769 it's I'm gonna lean towards, you know, people. 398 00:15:09,769 --> 00:15:12,889 And, you know, technologies are are changing so 399 00:15:12,889 --> 00:15:15,230 fast. I I heard a statistic that 400 00:15:15,674 --> 00:15:17,534 now, like, if you were a specialist 401 00:15:17,835 --> 00:15:20,875 in technology so for example, I'll update myself. 402 00:15:20,875 --> 00:15:22,875 One of the very first platforms that I 403 00:15:22,875 --> 00:15:25,375 supported in an enterprise was Lotus Notes. 404 00:15:25,835 --> 00:15:28,394 And so I got really good at Lotus 405 00:15:28,394 --> 00:15:31,080 Notes. I, like, understood how the databases work. 406 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,179 I understood how the whole platform work. 407 00:15:33,559 --> 00:15:35,480 And who knows? Like, maybe I could still 408 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,240 be doing a job out there as a 409 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,100 Lotus Notes administrator somewhere. 410 00:15:39,559 --> 00:15:42,039 But, but it changed. And so I had 411 00:15:42,039 --> 00:15:44,544 to evolve into Microsoft Exchange, and then I 412 00:15:44,544 --> 00:15:45,904 had you know, and I basically kinda went 413 00:15:45,904 --> 00:15:47,105 on to do the other things in my 414 00:15:47,105 --> 00:15:47,605 career. 415 00:15:47,985 --> 00:15:50,004 But, what I've heard is that that window 416 00:15:50,144 --> 00:15:53,105 is now, like, 18 months. You know? Whereas, 417 00:15:53,105 --> 00:15:54,865 you know, maybe when I started my career, 418 00:15:54,865 --> 00:15:56,625 I probably could have been a Lotus Notes 419 00:15:56,625 --> 00:15:59,105 administrator for maybe a decade. Right? You know, 420 00:15:59,105 --> 00:16:00,970 I would have probably been totally fine and 421 00:16:00,970 --> 00:16:03,129 not had any pressures. And so you think 422 00:16:03,129 --> 00:16:05,629 about that window shrinking more and more, 423 00:16:06,169 --> 00:16:09,709 and these technologies are ever evolving. They're bleeding 424 00:16:09,769 --> 00:16:12,169 into each other. You know? So if you're 425 00:16:12,169 --> 00:16:14,044 gonna have, like, a Genesys, 426 00:16:14,904 --> 00:16:17,945 contact center and you have ServiceNow and you 427 00:16:17,945 --> 00:16:20,105 have a platform like Epic or whatever, there's 428 00:16:20,105 --> 00:16:22,125 a lot of things that those three platforms 429 00:16:22,345 --> 00:16:25,404 do that bleed over into each other. 430 00:16:25,865 --> 00:16:26,845 And so 431 00:16:27,290 --> 00:16:28,889 how do I how do I solve that 432 00:16:28,889 --> 00:16:30,830 as as a, as a CTO 433 00:16:31,529 --> 00:16:33,610 is it doesn't make sense that I would 434 00:16:33,610 --> 00:16:35,370 constantly just go out there and try to 435 00:16:35,370 --> 00:16:36,809 find, oh, let me go get a a 436 00:16:36,809 --> 00:16:38,730 Genesis talent. Right? Well, let me go get, 437 00:16:38,730 --> 00:16:40,809 like, whatever top or whatever is going on. 438 00:16:40,809 --> 00:16:42,570 It's really better for me to invest in 439 00:16:42,570 --> 00:16:43,065 my people 440 00:16:43,705 --> 00:16:46,205 and trust that they're gonna have the ability 441 00:16:46,264 --> 00:16:49,225 to kinda learn and evolve as we evolve 442 00:16:49,225 --> 00:16:50,044 as an organization. 443 00:16:50,745 --> 00:16:52,585 And, you know, it it doesn't always pay 444 00:16:52,585 --> 00:16:54,345 out like any other investment. You know, some 445 00:16:54,345 --> 00:16:56,345 some folks, you know, just really enjoy what 446 00:16:56,345 --> 00:16:57,750 they're doing, and they may decide to go 447 00:16:57,750 --> 00:16:59,350 elsewhere. They may not want to learn a 448 00:16:59,350 --> 00:17:00,170 new technology. 449 00:17:00,629 --> 00:17:02,550 But what I found is is that more 450 00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:04,549 times than not, people are excited about that, 451 00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:05,690 and it's a well, 452 00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:08,250 a well, worth investment. 453 00:17:09,585 --> 00:17:11,585 That's really cool to hear. And definitely, you 454 00:17:11,585 --> 00:17:13,044 know, I I appreciate you 455 00:17:13,424 --> 00:17:15,505 digging a little bit deeper and and thinking 456 00:17:15,505 --> 00:17:17,904 about, the the people side because I think 457 00:17:17,904 --> 00:17:19,424 so much, you know, we hear that as 458 00:17:19,424 --> 00:17:21,585 a mission or a strategy is being able 459 00:17:21,585 --> 00:17:22,085 to, 460 00:17:22,779 --> 00:17:25,579 invest in, you know, the workforce and the 461 00:17:25,579 --> 00:17:27,500 talent and upskilling and all those kinds of 462 00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:29,660 things. But what that really looks like or 463 00:17:29,660 --> 00:17:31,200 the impact that it could make, 464 00:17:31,579 --> 00:17:33,500 you know, sometimes is a little bit more 465 00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:36,045 nebulous. So it's cool to think about it 466 00:17:36,045 --> 00:17:38,704 and hear you talk from the technology perspective, 467 00:17:38,765 --> 00:17:40,144 the different ways you can, 468 00:17:40,605 --> 00:17:43,244 really make a difference along those lines and 469 00:17:43,244 --> 00:17:43,644 and, 470 00:17:44,045 --> 00:17:46,684 moving forward. So, that's cool to hear. Now 471 00:17:46,684 --> 00:17:48,525 before we wrap up our conversation, I was 472 00:17:48,525 --> 00:17:50,045 wondering if you could talk about, 473 00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:52,259 some of the best opportunities for growth and 474 00:17:52,259 --> 00:17:54,419 development in the future. Where do you see 475 00:17:54,419 --> 00:17:56,419 some of the ways that, growth is gonna 476 00:17:56,419 --> 00:17:57,940 be happening for you as well as Baylor 477 00:17:57,940 --> 00:17:58,759 Scott and White? 478 00:18:00,019 --> 00:18:02,339 Absolutely. So I I would say, you know, 479 00:18:02,339 --> 00:18:04,039 health care as a whole, 480 00:18:04,375 --> 00:18:04,875 any 481 00:18:05,255 --> 00:18:07,734 any any well, any business, frankly, but but 482 00:18:07,734 --> 00:18:10,054 I'll just speak specifically to health care. It, 483 00:18:10,454 --> 00:18:12,634 any business that evolves will grow, 484 00:18:13,255 --> 00:18:14,714 and we are, 485 00:18:15,335 --> 00:18:16,954 going through a significant 486 00:18:17,255 --> 00:18:17,755 evolution, 487 00:18:18,214 --> 00:18:19,275 in health care, 488 00:18:20,289 --> 00:18:21,890 much like a lot of industries that are 489 00:18:21,890 --> 00:18:24,529 being disrupted and and so forth. But, you 490 00:18:24,529 --> 00:18:26,450 know, we kind of went through a period 491 00:18:26,450 --> 00:18:28,369 of consolidation, and some of that is still 492 00:18:28,369 --> 00:18:30,869 happening where hospital systems are going through acquisitions 493 00:18:30,930 --> 00:18:32,769 and things like that, and they're kinda kinda 494 00:18:32,769 --> 00:18:34,390 growing that way. But 495 00:18:34,690 --> 00:18:37,464 but, really, it's it's now shifting, and we're 496 00:18:37,464 --> 00:18:40,904 shifting more towards things like the experience and 497 00:18:40,904 --> 00:18:42,605 kind of empowering people, 498 00:18:43,545 --> 00:18:44,045 to, 499 00:18:45,305 --> 00:18:47,640 you know, control their own health care outcomes. 500 00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:49,720 And that's a big thing for us at 501 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,559 Baylor Scott and White is to focus on 502 00:18:51,559 --> 00:18:54,039 the patient, the patient experience, but but, more 503 00:18:54,039 --> 00:18:56,059 importantly, kind of empowering the patient, 504 00:18:57,079 --> 00:18:58,299 to be a part of, 505 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,079 their their own outcomes and stuff like that, 506 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:02,924 in partnership with us. Yeah. 507 00:19:03,644 --> 00:19:05,805 You know? The the point of care is 508 00:19:05,805 --> 00:19:08,045 changing at a rapid pace. You know? It's 509 00:19:08,045 --> 00:19:11,005 it's, no longer kind of exclusively to brick 510 00:19:11,005 --> 00:19:13,485 and mortar facilities. You know? My my grandparents, 511 00:19:13,485 --> 00:19:15,005 when they went to the doctor, they went 512 00:19:15,005 --> 00:19:17,230 to the doctor's office, which was a building, 513 00:19:17,230 --> 00:19:19,150 and that's what they did. They would have 514 00:19:19,150 --> 00:19:20,130 never even imagined, 515 00:19:20,990 --> 00:19:22,829 a virtual care. Like, they might have talked 516 00:19:22,829 --> 00:19:24,269 to a doctor over the phone or something 517 00:19:24,269 --> 00:19:26,990 like that, but but virtual visits, as they 518 00:19:26,990 --> 00:19:29,089 are, are kind of no longer an experiment. 519 00:19:29,174 --> 00:19:31,335 You know? You just, you know, pre COVID, 520 00:19:31,335 --> 00:19:33,255 they were kind of this experiment that people 521 00:19:33,255 --> 00:19:34,934 were trying to, you know, figure out whether 522 00:19:34,934 --> 00:19:36,615 they work or not. They're they're here to 523 00:19:36,615 --> 00:19:38,955 stay. And so that is an opportunity 524 00:19:39,335 --> 00:19:41,115 of of of growth for sure. 525 00:19:42,009 --> 00:19:43,690 I think we're gonna see more and more 526 00:19:43,690 --> 00:19:45,470 care to be given at the home. 527 00:19:45,849 --> 00:19:48,170 And from a technology perspective, we really need 528 00:19:48,170 --> 00:19:50,190 to think about how we're going to support 529 00:19:50,329 --> 00:19:52,970 that model, you know, you know, patients in 530 00:19:52,970 --> 00:19:55,529 the home, hospital at home initiatives, and things 531 00:19:55,529 --> 00:19:57,575 like that, and making sure that, 532 00:19:58,035 --> 00:19:59,954 we're able to meet the standards of care, 533 00:19:59,954 --> 00:20:02,115 which puts a lot more pressure on the 534 00:20:02,115 --> 00:20:03,974 technology, frankly. Right? Because, 535 00:20:04,275 --> 00:20:06,454 if a patient is in the hospital, 536 00:20:07,394 --> 00:20:08,694 the, caregivers 537 00:20:08,994 --> 00:20:11,549 have downtime procedures and stuff like that, and 538 00:20:11,630 --> 00:20:12,529 so, you know, technologies 539 00:20:13,390 --> 00:20:15,390 have issues, they're able to kinda make up 540 00:20:15,390 --> 00:20:18,029 the difference. If we have a technology issue 541 00:20:18,029 --> 00:20:19,890 with a patient at home, 542 00:20:20,590 --> 00:20:24,289 then we've now completely isolated that patient, and 543 00:20:24,350 --> 00:20:26,350 and that is that is, kind of an 544 00:20:26,350 --> 00:20:26,850 unacceptable, 545 00:20:27,924 --> 00:20:29,525 outcome for us, and so we really have 546 00:20:29,525 --> 00:20:31,525 to to think about that. I also think 547 00:20:31,525 --> 00:20:33,045 that you're gonna see a lot of growth 548 00:20:33,045 --> 00:20:34,585 in medical devices 549 00:20:34,964 --> 00:20:36,744 merging with consumer devices. 550 00:20:37,365 --> 00:20:39,285 You know, it's kinda funny. I think the 551 00:20:39,285 --> 00:20:41,525 Apple Watch is only the tip of the 552 00:20:41,525 --> 00:20:44,119 iceberg, but it's kind of amazing what is 553 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:45,980 happening with, you know, wearables 554 00:20:46,599 --> 00:20:48,859 and, how that is really benefiting, 555 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,160 the benefiting society, frankly, but but, benefiting, you 556 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,825 know, outcomes with a a lot of solid 557 00:20:55,825 --> 00:20:58,065 data. You know, if you think about your 558 00:20:58,065 --> 00:21:00,965 interaction with family members that have wearables, 559 00:21:01,745 --> 00:21:04,705 you like, common phrases today are, like, oh, 560 00:21:04,705 --> 00:21:06,384 I, you know, I I I got my 561 00:21:06,384 --> 00:21:08,705 steps in, or, you know, gosh. You know, 562 00:21:08,705 --> 00:21:10,065 my you know, I I guess my heart 563 00:21:10,065 --> 00:21:11,579 rate's up up or whatever. So you kinda 564 00:21:11,579 --> 00:21:13,819 hear these things that are that are happening 565 00:21:13,819 --> 00:21:15,420 and are normal in society, so I think 566 00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:17,440 that that's gonna continue to be, 567 00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:20,779 to to be a growth opportunity. But I 568 00:21:20,779 --> 00:21:23,440 think what it ultimately comes down to is 569 00:21:23,660 --> 00:21:25,764 in health care, we need to think about 570 00:21:25,904 --> 00:21:28,244 how other industries have been disrupted. 571 00:21:28,625 --> 00:21:29,764 So think about 572 00:21:30,144 --> 00:21:33,365 the music industry and how they were disrupted 573 00:21:33,424 --> 00:21:34,644 by digital downloads. 574 00:21:34,944 --> 00:21:36,384 They used to make a lot of money, 575 00:21:36,384 --> 00:21:39,904 you know, making in, CDs and albums and 576 00:21:39,904 --> 00:21:42,299 things like that, and their whole world got 577 00:21:42,299 --> 00:21:44,319 shifted to digital. Think about 578 00:21:44,779 --> 00:21:46,640 the the taxi driver 579 00:21:47,339 --> 00:21:48,240 pre Uber 580 00:21:48,619 --> 00:21:51,420 versus now. And and and then, of course, 581 00:21:51,420 --> 00:21:54,299 the biggest one, is Amazon and what it 582 00:21:54,299 --> 00:21:55,039 has done, 583 00:21:55,575 --> 00:21:58,934 to retail. It really has changed how we 584 00:21:58,934 --> 00:22:00,394 as a world consume 585 00:22:01,174 --> 00:22:01,674 products. 586 00:22:01,974 --> 00:22:02,474 And, 587 00:22:02,775 --> 00:22:03,835 you know, so 588 00:22:04,294 --> 00:22:06,454 think about those examples and what do they 589 00:22:06,454 --> 00:22:08,454 all have in common. Well, what they did 590 00:22:08,454 --> 00:22:10,615 was is they met their consumer where they 591 00:22:10,615 --> 00:22:11,069 were, 592 00:22:11,549 --> 00:22:13,950 every one of them. And so they kinda 593 00:22:13,950 --> 00:22:14,450 removed, 594 00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:17,549 the either, hey. I have to go to 595 00:22:17,549 --> 00:22:19,789 the music store at the mall, or I 596 00:22:19,789 --> 00:22:21,889 have to go to the mall to 597 00:22:22,269 --> 00:22:23,009 buy something, 598 00:22:23,470 --> 00:22:24,210 you know, 599 00:22:24,964 --> 00:22:26,724 tennis shoes that I can now order on 600 00:22:26,724 --> 00:22:27,464 on Amazon, 601 00:22:28,085 --> 00:22:30,805 or, like, I gotta, you know, wait or 602 00:22:30,805 --> 00:22:33,945 go find a taxi versus that taxi coming 603 00:22:34,005 --> 00:22:35,625 directly to me where I am. 604 00:22:36,164 --> 00:22:38,005 So each one of these disruptors are meeting 605 00:22:38,005 --> 00:22:40,309 consumers where they were, and we have to 606 00:22:40,309 --> 00:22:42,869 think about the fact that patients don't live 607 00:22:42,869 --> 00:22:45,529 in our brick and mortar clinics. They don't. 608 00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:47,589 And so I think the disruption is gonna 609 00:22:47,589 --> 00:22:49,509 happen with us having to move care to 610 00:22:49,509 --> 00:22:50,730 where the patients are. 611 00:22:51,715 --> 00:22:54,195 Fascinating. And and, you know, really just interesting 612 00:22:54,195 --> 00:22:56,434 to think about all those different industries that 613 00:22:56,434 --> 00:22:58,035 have been disrupted over the years, and then 614 00:22:58,035 --> 00:22:59,394 to see it happening right now in health 615 00:22:59,394 --> 00:22:59,894 care, 616 00:23:00,595 --> 00:23:03,555 is just really a lesson in, adapting and 617 00:23:03,555 --> 00:23:06,170 adjusting. And then, like you said, figuring out 618 00:23:06,170 --> 00:23:07,930 what patients want and need and and being 619 00:23:07,930 --> 00:23:10,009 able to deliver it. This is a really 620 00:23:10,009 --> 00:23:12,190 exciting time, to be in health care. 621 00:23:12,890 --> 00:23:14,570 Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining 622 00:23:14,570 --> 00:23:16,730 us today. It's been, a pleasure speaking with 623 00:23:16,730 --> 00:23:17,869 you. I've really appreciated 624 00:23:18,339 --> 00:23:20,019 hearing your perspective, and I look forward to 625 00:23:20,019 --> 00:23:21,399 connecting with you again soon. 626 00:23:22,179 --> 00:23:24,359 Absolutely. We'll see you in Chicago soon.