1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,580 Imagine this. You're in the heart of Chicago 2 00:00:02,639 --> 00:00:05,059 mingling with the brightest minds in health IT. 3 00:00:05,279 --> 00:00:07,839 You've arrived at the 9th annual Health IT 4 00:00:07,839 --> 00:00:11,439 plus Digital Health Plus RCM conference taking place 5 00:00:11,439 --> 00:00:14,424 October 1st through 4th at the luxurious Hyatt 6 00:00:14,424 --> 00:00:15,484 Regency Chicago. 7 00:00:15,945 --> 00:00:18,664 Picture the excitement as you collect countless business 8 00:00:18,664 --> 00:00:22,425 cards, forging invaluable connections with over 25 100 9 00:00:22,425 --> 00:00:23,884 executive level attendees. 10 00:00:24,425 --> 00:00:26,585 Feel the buzz of ideas flowing as you 11 00:00:26,585 --> 00:00:29,460 engage in meaningful conversations about the future of 12 00:00:29,460 --> 00:00:30,440 healthcare technology. 13 00:00:30,980 --> 00:00:34,200 Envision yourself attending sessions led by over 415 14 00:00:35,140 --> 00:00:36,039 elite speakers, 15 00:00:36,420 --> 00:00:39,000 gaining insights that could transform your organization. 16 00:00:39,539 --> 00:00:43,015 From digital transformation and telehealth to clinician burnout 17 00:00:43,015 --> 00:00:43,755 and cybersecurity, 18 00:00:44,615 --> 00:00:47,174 each topic is designed to spark new ideas 19 00:00:47,174 --> 00:00:49,895 and provide actionable takeaways, but it doesn't stop 20 00:00:49,895 --> 00:00:53,015 there. Imagine sitting in a packed auditorium listening 21 00:00:53,015 --> 00:00:55,210 to motivating keynotes from some of the biggest 22 00:00:55,210 --> 00:00:58,189 names in sports. Four time Super Bowl champion, 23 00:00:58,250 --> 00:00:58,990 Rob Gronkowski, 24 00:00:59,689 --> 00:01:00,189 WNBA 25 00:01:00,570 --> 00:01:02,509 champion, and author, Lisa Leslie, 26 00:01:02,890 --> 00:01:04,829 and NFL legend and ESPN 27 00:01:05,209 --> 00:01:05,709 analyst, 28 00:01:06,010 --> 00:01:08,564 Eli Manning, will be there sharing their stories 29 00:01:08,564 --> 00:01:11,525 and inspiring you to reach new heights. All 30 00:01:11,525 --> 00:01:14,244 around you, the future of health IT unfolds, 31 00:01:14,244 --> 00:01:15,784 and you're not just a spectator. 32 00:01:16,165 --> 00:01:17,784 You're an active participant. 33 00:01:18,244 --> 00:01:20,484 Don't wait. You can find the event website 34 00:01:20,484 --> 00:01:22,825 and get registered by visiting peckershospital 35 00:01:32,619 --> 00:01:34,780 Becker's Healthcare podcast made for the people who 36 00:01:34,780 --> 00:01:37,115 power US Healthcare. I am Molly Gamble with 37 00:01:37,115 --> 00:01:39,435 Becker's, and today delighted to spend time with 38 00:01:39,435 --> 00:01:40,255 Tim Callahan. 39 00:01:40,875 --> 00:01:43,594 Tim is the chief technology officer for University 40 00:01:43,594 --> 00:01:45,855 of Michigan Medicine or Michigan Medicine. 41 00:01:46,314 --> 00:01:48,555 Tim, welcome to the podcast. How are you 42 00:01:48,555 --> 00:01:50,094 and where do we find you today? 43 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,920 I'm doing absolutely great, and I'm working from 44 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,140 my home office today. 45 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:56,180 Terrific. 46 00:01:56,799 --> 00:01:58,879 Well, Tim, for listeners who might not be 47 00:01:58,879 --> 00:02:01,379 as familiar with Michigan Medicine as they otherwise 48 00:02:01,439 --> 00:02:04,179 could be, could you provide a brief overview 49 00:02:04,319 --> 00:02:06,159 just to help us get reacquainted with the 50 00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:06,659 organization? 51 00:02:08,544 --> 00:02:11,504 Yeah. So Michigan Medicine is really the the 52 00:02:11,504 --> 00:02:12,485 health care provider 53 00:02:12,865 --> 00:02:13,365 arm 54 00:02:13,824 --> 00:02:14,224 and, 55 00:02:14,625 --> 00:02:17,344 medical school to the University of Michigan. So 56 00:02:17,344 --> 00:02:19,905 most are very familiar with the University of 57 00:02:19,905 --> 00:02:23,639 Michigan, certainly with our national champion football team 58 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:24,620 of last year, 59 00:02:25,159 --> 00:02:27,400 and we're looking forward to repeating that again 60 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:28,139 this year. 61 00:02:28,599 --> 00:02:31,159 But, again, Michigan Medicine is really the health 62 00:02:31,159 --> 00:02:33,659 care providers of the hospital system associated 63 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,419 with the health care system, 64 00:02:36,905 --> 00:02:38,985 as well as as well as the medical 65 00:02:38,985 --> 00:02:39,485 school. 66 00:02:39,944 --> 00:02:41,564 We also have affiliates 67 00:02:42,025 --> 00:02:44,105 on the western side of the state and 68 00:02:44,105 --> 00:02:44,605 also 69 00:02:44,985 --> 00:02:47,805 in the central western part of the state. 70 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,860 So the reach expands quite a bit beyond 71 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:52,379 Ann Arbor and is, 72 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,300 continuing to expand 73 00:02:54,599 --> 00:02:55,099 statewide 74 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,340 as we look out into our future. 75 00:02:57,960 --> 00:02:58,460 Right. 76 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,254 And then over the past quarter, Tim, where 77 00:03:01,254 --> 00:03:03,495 have you been focusing most of your your 78 00:03:03,495 --> 00:03:04,474 time and energy 79 00:03:04,935 --> 00:03:06,395 within Michigan Medicine 80 00:03:06,694 --> 00:03:09,754 as chief technology officer? What's been really core? 81 00:03:10,775 --> 00:03:12,935 Yeah. So I'm about 2 years into the 82 00:03:12,935 --> 00:03:15,495 role, and I accepted the role because Michigan 83 00:03:15,495 --> 00:03:15,870 Medicine 84 00:03:16,349 --> 00:03:18,989 had a very strong desire to modernize their 85 00:03:18,989 --> 00:03:21,469 infrastructure. And really what that meant to them 86 00:03:21,469 --> 00:03:23,310 was they wanna move a lot of their 87 00:03:23,310 --> 00:03:25,789 workloads to the cloud. So we've been spending 88 00:03:25,789 --> 00:03:27,489 a lot of time issuing RFPs 89 00:03:27,789 --> 00:03:30,049 and getting ready for that cloud migration. 90 00:03:30,509 --> 00:03:32,944 We're moving Epic to the cloud. We're moving 91 00:03:32,944 --> 00:03:34,545 sector to the cloud. We're moving all of 92 00:03:34,545 --> 00:03:37,525 our general purpose workloads to the cloud. So, 93 00:03:37,985 --> 00:03:40,224 but because we're a public institution, because we're 94 00:03:40,224 --> 00:03:42,165 part of, the University of Michigan, 95 00:03:42,625 --> 00:03:44,064 we need to issue a whole bunch of 96 00:03:44,064 --> 00:03:45,905 RFPs, and we need to get ready for 97 00:03:45,905 --> 00:03:46,564 that migration. 98 00:03:47,769 --> 00:03:49,549 In the midst of all of that, 99 00:03:49,849 --> 00:03:53,150 there was also an acquisition with Sparrow Health. 100 00:03:53,449 --> 00:03:55,069 So we've also been deeply, 101 00:03:56,489 --> 00:03:56,989 engaged 102 00:03:57,289 --> 00:03:58,269 in integration 103 00:03:58,569 --> 00:03:59,389 and consolidation, 104 00:04:00,545 --> 00:04:01,685 collaboration with, 105 00:04:02,224 --> 00:04:04,885 with affiliates. So I mentioned that we have 106 00:04:05,105 --> 00:04:07,444 UMH West and and, Sparrow. 107 00:04:07,905 --> 00:04:09,905 So we are working with them to understand 108 00:04:09,905 --> 00:04:12,724 how our cloud strategy could impact them, 109 00:04:13,419 --> 00:04:15,599 as well as what can we do together. 110 00:04:16,139 --> 00:04:18,319 How do we share common best practices? 111 00:04:18,939 --> 00:04:19,680 How do we, 112 00:04:20,699 --> 00:04:23,020 look at the applications that we have within 113 00:04:23,020 --> 00:04:24,160 the broader ecosystem, 114 00:04:25,020 --> 00:04:27,420 and how do we achieve synergies between those 115 00:04:27,420 --> 00:04:28,480 3 different organizations? 116 00:04:29,154 --> 00:04:29,654 Mhmm. 117 00:04:30,274 --> 00:04:32,995 And that work of migrating workflows to the 118 00:04:32,995 --> 00:04:33,495 cloud, 119 00:04:33,875 --> 00:04:35,175 what's the most taxing 120 00:04:35,555 --> 00:04:37,475 aspect of that work for for you as 121 00:04:37,475 --> 00:04:39,714 the leader of those efforts? You mentioned a 122 00:04:39,714 --> 00:04:40,535 lot of RFPs. 123 00:04:41,235 --> 00:04:43,875 Michigan Medicine is a public institution like you 124 00:04:43,875 --> 00:04:45,919 said. Is there something that you didn't hint 125 00:04:45,919 --> 00:04:48,000 at, Tim, that has been especially demanding on 126 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,459 your time or your team? 127 00:04:50,639 --> 00:04:53,779 Well, I think, with with all IT projects, 128 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:55,220 probably 129 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:56,339 the preparation, 130 00:04:57,975 --> 00:04:59,354 is super important 131 00:04:59,735 --> 00:05:03,115 in that journey. There's preparation work, there's foundational 132 00:05:03,334 --> 00:05:03,834 work, 133 00:05:04,454 --> 00:05:06,134 that needs to be done that's really behind 134 00:05:06,134 --> 00:05:06,794 the scenes, 135 00:05:07,095 --> 00:05:09,894 that doesn't get, seen a lot throughout the 136 00:05:09,894 --> 00:05:11,975 organization. So they're kinda wondering, hey. What are 137 00:05:11,975 --> 00:05:12,634 you doing? 138 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,899 But those foundational pieces are really critically important. 139 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,240 The other aspect that's really critically important in 140 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:20,139 a health care 141 00:05:20,439 --> 00:05:22,620 migration to the cloud or a health organization 142 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,399 moving to the cloud is this aspect of 143 00:05:25,399 --> 00:05:26,459 business disruption. 144 00:05:27,175 --> 00:05:29,334 So when you move a workload from an 145 00:05:29,334 --> 00:05:29,995 on prem 146 00:05:30,454 --> 00:05:30,954 environment 147 00:05:31,415 --> 00:05:33,654 to a cloud location, you wanna do that 148 00:05:33,654 --> 00:05:34,714 very, very seamlessly. 149 00:05:35,735 --> 00:05:38,235 You don't wanna impact the end user community. 150 00:05:38,294 --> 00:05:40,214 So I I mentioned, you know, we're gonna 151 00:05:40,214 --> 00:05:42,850 be moving Epic to the cloud. We wanna 152 00:05:42,910 --> 00:05:43,810 have users 153 00:05:44,430 --> 00:05:46,930 using the on prem system, you know, Sunday 154 00:05:46,990 --> 00:05:49,089 during the day, and then we wanna use, 155 00:05:49,629 --> 00:05:52,210 those same users to wake up on Monday 156 00:05:52,270 --> 00:05:54,910 and access the cloud based solution. They should 157 00:05:54,910 --> 00:05:55,410 not 158 00:05:55,824 --> 00:05:57,985 notice anything different other than the fact that 159 00:05:57,985 --> 00:06:00,544 everything's working better and faster than it was 160 00:06:00,544 --> 00:06:01,284 on Sunday. 161 00:06:01,664 --> 00:06:04,064 So being able to move these things without 162 00:06:04,064 --> 00:06:07,024 having any end user disruption is the real 163 00:06:07,024 --> 00:06:08,245 trick of the trade 164 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,019 and something that we're, 165 00:06:10,479 --> 00:06:13,300 and the team are very good at implementing 166 00:06:13,519 --> 00:06:16,160 both on the epic side of the journey 167 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,839 as well as sector and the general purpose 168 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,899 workload. So we've developed a very comprehensive strategy 169 00:06:21,475 --> 00:06:23,074 in terms of how we're gonna move these 170 00:06:23,074 --> 00:06:24,935 really critically important workloads 171 00:06:25,314 --> 00:06:27,014 and how to do that in a nondisruptive 172 00:06:27,314 --> 00:06:29,235 manner, which is super important in a health 173 00:06:29,235 --> 00:06:30,774 care setting. Mhmm. 174 00:06:31,394 --> 00:06:33,154 And it's also I mean, that's a distinct 175 00:06:33,154 --> 00:06:35,020 need for a leader too because you mentioned 176 00:06:35,020 --> 00:06:37,100 this work, the prep for that migration behind 177 00:06:37,100 --> 00:06:37,840 the scenes. 178 00:06:38,220 --> 00:06:39,759 Also, the seamless transition 179 00:06:40,379 --> 00:06:42,460 where it's almost as though people don't even 180 00:06:42,460 --> 00:06:45,520 detect it. I mean, success being 181 00:06:45,980 --> 00:06:49,334 defined in part by being hard to distinguish 182 00:06:49,334 --> 00:06:50,074 or notice 183 00:06:50,454 --> 00:06:51,654 and fitting right in, 184 00:06:52,294 --> 00:06:53,514 that can sometimes be 185 00:06:54,294 --> 00:06:56,134 a unique challenge as a leader when when 186 00:06:56,134 --> 00:06:58,534 the goal isn't necessarily more visibility or attention 187 00:06:58,534 --> 00:07:00,314 to what's being being done. Right? 188 00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:02,079 Right. No doubt. 189 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,079 When when success is that you've that nobody 190 00:07:06,079 --> 00:07:08,160 notices anything that you're doing, you know, it's 191 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:09,540 hard to, you know, 192 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,079 really highlight yourself as a leader, but that 193 00:07:12,079 --> 00:07:14,100 really is success in the cloud migration 194 00:07:15,185 --> 00:07:17,904 or a migration or a consolidation. We we 195 00:07:17,904 --> 00:07:20,485 wanna make sure that we're being nondisruptive, 196 00:07:21,264 --> 00:07:23,504 to the business, but yet delivering a lot 197 00:07:23,504 --> 00:07:24,165 of value, 198 00:07:24,865 --> 00:07:26,964 in in performing that move. 199 00:07:27,379 --> 00:07:29,459 So we have all the confidence in the 200 00:07:29,459 --> 00:07:31,399 world that once the move is created, 201 00:07:31,779 --> 00:07:33,620 we'll be able to deliver all sorts of 202 00:07:33,620 --> 00:07:36,500 tools and technologies to our energy community they 203 00:07:36,500 --> 00:07:38,839 simply didn't have in the on prem environment. 204 00:07:39,404 --> 00:07:41,004 We'll be able to deliver that in the 205 00:07:41,004 --> 00:07:43,004 cloud. So that's really the goal and the 206 00:07:43,004 --> 00:07:43,504 anticipation 207 00:07:43,964 --> 00:07:46,045 and really the excitement around some of these 208 00:07:46,045 --> 00:07:47,185 projects. Mhmm. 209 00:07:47,884 --> 00:07:50,285 Well, zooming out from Michigan Medicine, I I 210 00:07:50,285 --> 00:07:52,125 wanted to talk to you about something more 211 00:07:52,125 --> 00:07:54,865 broadly, and this really spans industry wide. But 212 00:07:54,979 --> 00:07:56,660 there was an interesting stat that came out 213 00:07:56,660 --> 00:07:58,979 this week from an IBM report. It caught 214 00:07:58,979 --> 00:08:01,560 my eye. And this report uncovered 215 00:08:01,939 --> 00:08:03,779 a paradox in which you've got a lot 216 00:08:03,779 --> 00:08:04,439 of CEOs 217 00:08:05,060 --> 00:08:08,120 saying how much they value collaboration between technology 218 00:08:08,259 --> 00:08:09,639 leaders and their CFOs. 219 00:08:10,245 --> 00:08:11,925 And then it turns out that only a 220 00:08:11,925 --> 00:08:15,285 small fraction of tech c level leaders are 221 00:08:15,285 --> 00:08:17,865 actually working closely with finance to 222 00:08:18,245 --> 00:08:20,645 align their tech metrics with the business goals. 223 00:08:20,645 --> 00:08:22,964 And this, again, not health care specific. This 224 00:08:22,964 --> 00:08:23,944 report spanned 225 00:08:24,449 --> 00:08:24,949 26 226 00:08:25,569 --> 00:08:27,410 industries. But, Tim, I I wanted to bring 227 00:08:27,410 --> 00:08:29,329 it to your attention and see what you 228 00:08:29,329 --> 00:08:30,289 think about this. 229 00:08:30,689 --> 00:08:31,589 As a CTO, 230 00:08:32,209 --> 00:08:34,230 what do you think contributes to that disconnect 231 00:08:34,450 --> 00:08:36,929 where CEOs are saying they really want the 232 00:08:36,929 --> 00:08:38,629 technology and finance leaders 233 00:08:39,035 --> 00:08:41,595 to work closely together and collaborate, and then 234 00:08:41,595 --> 00:08:44,075 it turns out it's not happening as much 235 00:08:44,075 --> 00:08:45,295 as one might think. 236 00:08:46,875 --> 00:08:47,774 Yeah. Those, 237 00:08:48,875 --> 00:08:49,615 those numbers 238 00:08:50,394 --> 00:08:52,175 somewhat surprised me. 239 00:08:52,715 --> 00:08:55,220 I I know that in at least the 240 00:08:55,220 --> 00:08:57,159 last decade of my career, 241 00:08:57,860 --> 00:08:58,759 I've worked 242 00:08:59,139 --> 00:08:59,799 for organizations, 243 00:09:01,379 --> 00:09:03,559 that have a lot of rigor and maturity 244 00:09:04,019 --> 00:09:04,519 around, 245 00:09:04,899 --> 00:09:07,940 you know, product development life cycles and business 246 00:09:07,940 --> 00:09:09,080 case use cases, 247 00:09:09,934 --> 00:09:12,095 to where really any of the types of 248 00:09:12,095 --> 00:09:14,575 things that I might want to do, whether 249 00:09:14,575 --> 00:09:17,134 it be, cloud migration, whether it be an 250 00:09:17,134 --> 00:09:17,634 integration, 251 00:09:18,095 --> 00:09:19,154 whether it be a consolidation, 252 00:09:20,095 --> 00:09:22,595 at any IT type of initiative, 253 00:09:23,210 --> 00:09:25,529 we need to develop some element of a 254 00:09:25,529 --> 00:09:27,769 business case to understand how much we're gonna 255 00:09:27,769 --> 00:09:28,269 spend, 256 00:09:29,129 --> 00:09:29,629 and 257 00:09:30,009 --> 00:09:31,629 what the budget's gonna be, 258 00:09:32,169 --> 00:09:34,669 both from a product perspective, from an infrastructure 259 00:09:34,809 --> 00:09:36,889 perspective, as well as from a a people 260 00:09:36,889 --> 00:09:38,509 perspective or even a consulting 261 00:09:39,345 --> 00:09:41,824 effort perspective. All of those elements need to 262 00:09:41,824 --> 00:09:44,485 be brought in so that we can clearly 263 00:09:44,625 --> 00:09:45,764 define to the organization 264 00:09:46,065 --> 00:09:47,125 what we anticipate, 265 00:09:48,304 --> 00:09:51,105 expending on that effort. So I've been maybe 266 00:09:51,105 --> 00:09:51,605 blessed, 267 00:09:52,730 --> 00:09:55,049 that to be a part of organizations that 268 00:09:55,049 --> 00:09:56,429 have that type of 269 00:09:56,889 --> 00:10:00,409 rigor. But what one of the interesting things 270 00:10:00,409 --> 00:10:00,909 about, 271 00:10:01,929 --> 00:10:02,750 this particular, 272 00:10:03,450 --> 00:10:06,509 topic is you specifically called out CFOs. 273 00:10:08,024 --> 00:10:10,745 And what I what I found interesting to 274 00:10:10,745 --> 00:10:11,725 that distinction 275 00:10:12,105 --> 00:10:12,605 is 276 00:10:13,225 --> 00:10:16,264 there's a lot of financial metrics that are 277 00:10:16,264 --> 00:10:17,404 important to businesses. 278 00:10:18,105 --> 00:10:20,424 But in a health care system, sometimes you 279 00:10:20,424 --> 00:10:21,164 do things 280 00:10:22,169 --> 00:10:25,230 not because it makes financial sense, but because 281 00:10:25,289 --> 00:10:27,850 it's gonna better patient care or better, 282 00:10:28,250 --> 00:10:31,370 or create a better patient experience. So you 283 00:10:31,370 --> 00:10:34,830 may do something that financially doesn't make sense, 284 00:10:35,235 --> 00:10:38,195 but you'd you're going to embark on that 285 00:10:38,195 --> 00:10:40,674 project or that initiative because it's gonna save 286 00:10:40,674 --> 00:10:43,075 lives or you're going to create a better 287 00:10:43,075 --> 00:10:44,134 customer experience, 288 00:10:45,235 --> 00:10:45,975 which will, 289 00:10:46,995 --> 00:10:49,315 which will better the community. So there there 290 00:10:49,315 --> 00:10:50,534 are these aspects 291 00:10:51,809 --> 00:10:53,990 of certainly within health care of 292 00:10:54,929 --> 00:10:58,149 broadening your discussion, not just for the CFOs, 293 00:10:58,289 --> 00:11:01,009 but broadening to the to the entire c 294 00:11:01,009 --> 00:11:03,490 suite to make sure that we're capturing all 295 00:11:03,490 --> 00:11:05,345 of the needs and wants of the organization 296 00:11:05,485 --> 00:11:06,784 and make sure everyone's 297 00:11:07,404 --> 00:11:09,904 voice is being reflective as we move forward. 298 00:11:10,605 --> 00:11:11,105 So 299 00:11:11,725 --> 00:11:13,804 so I was surprised by the metrics. I 300 00:11:13,804 --> 00:11:15,964 think it's super important. I think it's important 301 00:11:15,964 --> 00:11:17,725 to work with the CFO. I think it's 302 00:11:17,725 --> 00:11:19,884 important to work with a broader c suite. 303 00:11:19,884 --> 00:11:21,790 I think it's important to have good governance 304 00:11:22,250 --> 00:11:24,169 in really anything that you do from a 305 00:11:24,169 --> 00:11:25,389 technology perspective. 306 00:11:26,730 --> 00:11:27,790 So I would encourage 307 00:11:28,250 --> 00:11:30,110 those that are operating in a vacuum, 308 00:11:31,210 --> 00:11:33,210 you know, to to maybe broaden their, 309 00:11:33,954 --> 00:11:36,034 their scope and and broaden their, 310 00:11:36,434 --> 00:11:37,334 their communication, 311 00:11:38,195 --> 00:11:38,695 channels, 312 00:11:39,075 --> 00:11:40,214 aspects of the business. 313 00:11:40,834 --> 00:11:41,334 Mhmm. 314 00:11:41,954 --> 00:11:44,034 Well, thanks, Tim. And for listeners, this was 315 00:11:44,034 --> 00:11:46,834 the report out of IBM August 2024 across 316 00:11:46,834 --> 00:11:48,695 26 industries. Those stats, 317 00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:52,980 66% of CEOs emphasizing the importance of collaboration, 318 00:11:53,199 --> 00:11:56,500 and then only 39% of technology leaders 319 00:11:56,959 --> 00:11:57,939 working with finance. 320 00:11:58,559 --> 00:11:59,839 So I think, Tim, your point is well 321 00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:02,399 received. CFOs, that's one role. There can be 322 00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:04,730 a lot of other ways, whether it's operationally, 323 00:12:04,730 --> 00:12:07,457 customer experience, patient care, that technology needs to 324 00:12:07,457 --> 00:12:10,184 be integrated into a health system like Michigan 325 00:12:10,184 --> 00:12:13,252 Medicine. Shifting gears just a little bit, you 326 00:12:13,252 --> 00:12:15,979 know, speaking of C level executives and and 327 00:12:15,979 --> 00:12:18,500 leaders, can you share, Tim, an important leadership 328 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:21,940 lesson that you learned firsthand throughout your career? 329 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,320 What is the lesson? And then I think 330 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,799 more importantly, what's the story behind it? How 331 00:12:26,799 --> 00:12:28,179 did you arrive at it? 332 00:12:30,365 --> 00:12:32,545 Well, I've learned within IT 333 00:12:33,085 --> 00:12:35,485 that there are a a 1000000 and one 334 00:12:35,485 --> 00:12:38,225 ways to accomplish a given objective. 335 00:12:39,004 --> 00:12:40,764 And the way that I would go about 336 00:12:40,764 --> 00:12:43,600 accomplishing a particular task may be different than 337 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,220 someone else on my team. 338 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,639 And it's important to reflect on that. I 339 00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:49,779 think as leaders, 340 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:53,120 it's our job to set the vision. It's 341 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:54,340 our job to, 342 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:55,700 define 343 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,980 where we're going and why we're going there. 344 00:12:59,495 --> 00:13:02,695 But to loosen the reins or give our 345 00:13:02,695 --> 00:13:03,195 teams, 346 00:13:04,455 --> 00:13:06,554 lots of rope and lots of latitude 347 00:13:06,934 --> 00:13:08,075 in order to develop 348 00:13:08,855 --> 00:13:11,414 the way that we would accomplish that vision 349 00:13:11,414 --> 00:13:13,330 or the way that we would accomplish those 350 00:13:13,330 --> 00:13:15,509 goals because there are very different ways, 351 00:13:16,210 --> 00:13:18,289 that we can do that. And for those 352 00:13:18,289 --> 00:13:20,549 of us who have been in IT 353 00:13:21,009 --> 00:13:22,470 for a long, long time, 354 00:13:23,490 --> 00:13:25,750 at some point in time, your teams 355 00:13:26,205 --> 00:13:28,925 take away your username and password or take 356 00:13:28,925 --> 00:13:31,105 away your access to certain systems 357 00:13:31,485 --> 00:13:33,884 because they don't want you meddling in routers 358 00:13:33,884 --> 00:13:36,925 or switches or or or databases or things 359 00:13:36,925 --> 00:13:38,445 of that nature. And the reason that they're 360 00:13:38,445 --> 00:13:41,085 doing that is because they're telling you, hey. 361 00:13:41,820 --> 00:13:43,419 There's better ways to do it, or we 362 00:13:43,419 --> 00:13:45,419 don't want you doing that stuff. We want 363 00:13:45,419 --> 00:13:46,879 you doing these other things. 364 00:13:47,740 --> 00:13:50,379 So it's a humbling experience when those things 365 00:13:50,379 --> 00:13:50,879 happen, 366 00:13:51,340 --> 00:13:53,519 as an IT leader that your team says, 367 00:13:53,980 --> 00:13:56,059 maybe you shouldn't have access to that, or 368 00:13:56,059 --> 00:13:58,245 maybe we don't want you doing those particular 369 00:13:58,245 --> 00:13:58,745 things. 370 00:13:59,445 --> 00:14:01,445 And I crossed that bridge many, many moons 371 00:14:01,445 --> 00:14:01,945 ago. 372 00:14:02,644 --> 00:14:04,485 But it is fun to reflect, and it 373 00:14:04,485 --> 00:14:06,965 is important to say, here's the vision. Here's 374 00:14:06,965 --> 00:14:08,804 what we're trying to do. Here's why we're 375 00:14:08,804 --> 00:14:09,809 trying to do that, 376 00:14:10,289 --> 00:14:12,529 and allow the teams to develop thoughts and 377 00:14:12,529 --> 00:14:15,190 strategies about how they're going to accomplish that. 378 00:14:15,570 --> 00:14:16,070 Mhmm. 379 00:14:16,529 --> 00:14:19,009 And where does the the skill and the 380 00:14:19,009 --> 00:14:19,509 leadership 381 00:14:19,889 --> 00:14:22,690 trait of asking good questions come in here? 382 00:14:22,690 --> 00:14:23,190 Because 383 00:14:23,504 --> 00:14:26,065 like you said, Tim, if you're trusting the 384 00:14:26,065 --> 00:14:27,745 team to come up with the plan, you 385 00:14:27,745 --> 00:14:29,264 lay out the vision, but they're the ones 386 00:14:29,264 --> 00:14:30,965 really owning and developing the plan. 387 00:14:31,985 --> 00:14:34,705 How does your ability to ask questions? Maybe 388 00:14:34,705 --> 00:14:36,779 if you spot something that's a bit fuzzy 389 00:14:36,779 --> 00:14:38,639 or it could be a potential pitfall 390 00:14:39,179 --> 00:14:41,899 rather than rolling out your plan, Tim's version. 391 00:14:41,899 --> 00:14:43,899 Do you find yourself just trying to probe 392 00:14:43,899 --> 00:14:46,459 more and help them identify those things themselves? 393 00:14:46,459 --> 00:14:47,679 What does that look like? 394 00:14:48,475 --> 00:14:50,414 You know, I I think developing 395 00:14:50,875 --> 00:14:51,375 or, 396 00:14:52,394 --> 00:14:55,695 getting really good at the Socratic method of 397 00:14:56,154 --> 00:14:57,534 painting that picture 398 00:14:58,235 --> 00:15:00,075 is really important. And what I mean by 399 00:15:00,075 --> 00:15:02,254 the Socratic method is Socrates, 400 00:15:02,715 --> 00:15:03,855 asked a lot of questions, 401 00:15:04,269 --> 00:15:04,929 in his, 402 00:15:05,389 --> 00:15:05,889 teachings. 403 00:15:06,909 --> 00:15:09,490 And in asking those questions, he helps provide 404 00:15:09,549 --> 00:15:12,429 illustrations and help help the teams, you know, 405 00:15:12,429 --> 00:15:12,929 see, 406 00:15:13,389 --> 00:15:14,769 the goal at the end of, 407 00:15:15,230 --> 00:15:17,950 you know, his objective or what his vision 408 00:15:17,950 --> 00:15:20,174 was. And I think that's really important in 409 00:15:20,174 --> 00:15:21,554 IT. A lot of times, 410 00:15:22,174 --> 00:15:23,855 when you've been in IT as long as 411 00:15:23,855 --> 00:15:25,774 I have, you've seen what works and you've 412 00:15:25,774 --> 00:15:27,315 seen what hasn't worked. 413 00:15:27,695 --> 00:15:28,835 But you don't necessarily 414 00:15:29,214 --> 00:15:31,534 want to impress or tell the teams this 415 00:15:31,534 --> 00:15:33,054 is the way that we're gonna do it, 416 00:15:33,054 --> 00:15:34,759 as I said in the past. 417 00:15:35,220 --> 00:15:37,139 What you wanna do is you wanna kinda 418 00:15:37,139 --> 00:15:38,820 show them these are the different ways that 419 00:15:38,820 --> 00:15:41,300 you can do it. And then while you're 420 00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:43,220 showing them the different ways that they can 421 00:15:43,220 --> 00:15:44,440 achieve those objective, 422 00:15:45,139 --> 00:15:46,120 ask questions. 423 00:15:46,975 --> 00:15:50,095 And and asking of those questions, you should 424 00:15:50,095 --> 00:15:52,034 be showing your teams 425 00:15:52,815 --> 00:15:55,375 the pitfalls or the advantages of one way 426 00:15:55,375 --> 00:15:57,695 over another way. And I do a lot 427 00:15:57,695 --> 00:16:00,575 of that when I'm when I'm scheduling meetings 428 00:16:00,575 --> 00:16:01,394 with vendors, 429 00:16:01,799 --> 00:16:04,120 when I'm trying to educate the teams on 430 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,519 what works and what doesn't work, I ask 431 00:16:06,519 --> 00:16:07,580 a lot of questions 432 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,080 not because I don't know the answer, but 433 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,320 because I want the teams to understand what 434 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,884 the answer to those questions are and why 435 00:16:15,884 --> 00:16:17,985 it's important to the overall vision, 436 00:16:18,605 --> 00:16:20,065 that we're trying to achieve. 437 00:16:20,365 --> 00:16:20,865 So 438 00:16:21,325 --> 00:16:24,365 asking questions is super, super important even if 439 00:16:24,365 --> 00:16:26,524 you know the answer to it. As a 440 00:16:26,524 --> 00:16:28,305 leader, asking those questions 441 00:16:28,845 --> 00:16:29,904 to really highlight 442 00:16:30,679 --> 00:16:31,980 significance and importance, 443 00:16:32,759 --> 00:16:35,740 to your teams is really important and understanding 444 00:16:36,039 --> 00:16:38,200 why you would go down one path as 445 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:39,259 opposed to another. 446 00:16:39,879 --> 00:16:40,379 Mhmm. 447 00:16:40,839 --> 00:16:42,839 Mhmm. Great. And and, Tim, as we wind 448 00:16:42,839 --> 00:16:44,600 down here, is there anything else you'd like 449 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,425 to share with our listeners? We kinda danced 450 00:16:46,425 --> 00:16:48,745 around a few different topics today. Anything we 451 00:16:48,745 --> 00:16:50,184 didn't get to that they should know or 452 00:16:50,184 --> 00:16:51,004 keep in mind? 453 00:16:52,904 --> 00:16:53,965 Yeah. No. I, 454 00:16:54,825 --> 00:16:57,545 you know, first off, you know, thanks for 455 00:16:57,545 --> 00:16:59,305 having me, and and thanks for, 456 00:17:00,105 --> 00:17:01,165 thanks for the time today. 457 00:17:01,519 --> 00:17:02,740 But as as we conclude, 458 00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:04,960 you know, IT is a lot of fun. 459 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:05,859 And 460 00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:08,960 and I got into IT because I really 461 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,440 thought of it as a big giant, you 462 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:12,099 know, puzzle. 463 00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:14,319 And it was fun to put those different 464 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:15,380 pieces together. 465 00:17:16,065 --> 00:17:17,444 And at the end of the day, 466 00:17:18,065 --> 00:17:20,065 as I said, there's lots of different ways 467 00:17:20,065 --> 00:17:22,085 to achieve a different IT objective. 468 00:17:22,384 --> 00:17:25,024 It's also super important to have fun along 469 00:17:25,024 --> 00:17:26,865 the way, and I think that you can 470 00:17:26,865 --> 00:17:27,524 do that. 471 00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:31,119 You can do really complicated things. You can 472 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,599 do very innovative things. And I think at 473 00:17:33,599 --> 00:17:35,200 the end of the day, when those things 474 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:35,940 are accomplished, 475 00:17:36,399 --> 00:17:37,139 when those, 476 00:17:38,319 --> 00:17:41,039 objectives are met, that it's fun to reflect 477 00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:43,139 back on it. And, hopefully, it's fun. 478 00:17:43,644 --> 00:17:45,884 It was it was fun to accomplish it, 479 00:17:46,285 --> 00:17:47,744 along the road. So 480 00:17:48,045 --> 00:17:50,684 have fun while you're going about doing your 481 00:17:50,684 --> 00:17:52,304 your IT goals and objectives. 482 00:17:53,164 --> 00:17:55,164 And if we're gonna wrap up, you know, 483 00:17:55,164 --> 00:17:57,244 it is important to have fun during these 484 00:17:57,244 --> 00:17:58,065 IT projects. 485 00:17:58,589 --> 00:17:59,089 Absolutely. 486 00:17:59,630 --> 00:18:02,509 Well, Tim Callahan, chief technology officer with Michigan 487 00:18:02,509 --> 00:18:04,669 Medicine, thank you again for being our guest 488 00:18:04,669 --> 00:18:06,429 today. Just a real pleasure to catch up 489 00:18:06,429 --> 00:18:07,329 with you and 490 00:18:07,789 --> 00:18:09,390 hear your take on a number of different 491 00:18:09,390 --> 00:18:11,654 topics, Tim. So I hope it's a a 492 00:18:11,654 --> 00:18:13,994 great fall for you and your team and 493 00:18:14,215 --> 00:18:15,275 Michigan football. 494 00:18:16,295 --> 00:18:16,795 Absolutely. 495 00:18:17,414 --> 00:18:19,174 Thank you so much again for having me, 496 00:18:19,174 --> 00:18:20,455 and and you have a great rest of 497 00:18:20,455 --> 00:18:22,475 the day. You too. Thanks, Tim.