1 00:00:00,205 --> 00:00:02,495 - This is Laura Dedo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast. 2 00:00:03,075 --> 00:00:05,015 I'm thrilled today to be joined by Tahir Ali, 3 00:00:05,225 --> 00:00:06,495 chief Technology Officer, 4 00:00:06,555 --> 00:00:09,055 and Chief Information Security Officer at Montage Health. 5 00:00:09,785 --> 00:00:11,815 Tahir. It's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. 6 00:00:13,015 --> 00:00:14,465 - Same here. Thank you for having me. 7 00:00:15,645 --> 00:00:17,135 - Well, I'm really looking forward 8 00:00:17,135 --> 00:00:19,455 to our conversation in getting a sense of 9 00:00:19,565 --> 00:00:21,055 what you're doing at Montage Health 10 00:00:21,275 --> 00:00:22,655 and really on the technology side. 11 00:00:22,695 --> 00:00:24,895 I know there's so many exciting things happening, 12 00:00:24,915 --> 00:00:27,535 but also a lot of movement on the cybersecurity side 13 00:00:27,535 --> 00:00:29,295 and a lot to keep on top of. 14 00:00:29,355 --> 00:00:31,975 So I, I'm really excited to dive deeper into that with you. 15 00:00:31,995 --> 00:00:33,015 But before we do that, 16 00:00:33,155 --> 00:00:34,095 can you tell us a little bit more 17 00:00:34,095 --> 00:00:35,215 about yourself and your background? 18 00:00:36,655 --> 00:00:39,275 - Of course. Um, so, uh, my background 19 00:00:39,795 --> 00:00:43,275 starting from college, I, I did my undergraduate in computer 20 00:00:43,275 --> 00:00:46,035 and mathematical sciences, then took, um, uh, 21 00:00:46,395 --> 00:00:47,875 computer science, uh, master's classes. 22 00:00:48,775 --> 00:00:52,115 And then from there, i, I really, you know, started, um, 23 00:00:52,595 --> 00:00:56,195 honing in, um, uh, more and more computer science. 24 00:00:56,895 --> 00:01:01,755 So, um, started doing heavy Unix 25 00:01:01,935 --> 00:01:05,355 and system, uh, programming and administration. 26 00:01:05,815 --> 00:01:10,035 And then, um, from there became more of a storage person, 27 00:01:10,145 --> 00:01:13,275 then virtualization, then network and so on and so forth. 28 00:01:14,215 --> 00:01:18,395 Um, I was, um, at NYU Langone Medical Center, um, 29 00:01:18,485 --> 00:01:20,995 where my kind of boss told me, Hey, 30 00:01:21,015 --> 00:01:22,315 you know, so many different things. 31 00:01:22,335 --> 00:01:24,075 We want you to become an architect. 32 00:01:24,295 --> 00:01:26,755 And, um, a great, great person. 33 00:01:26,815 --> 00:01:31,555 His name is, uh, um, Jim Song, uh, um, so he, he said, Hey, 34 00:01:31,975 --> 00:01:34,915 see, what would it take for you to be an architect? 35 00:01:34,995 --> 00:01:37,195 And I was like, all right. So I started looking. 36 00:01:37,675 --> 00:01:39,115 A couple of months later, I go to him 37 00:01:39,115 --> 00:01:40,395 and I was like, I have really no 38 00:01:40,425 --> 00:01:41,715 idea what that really means. 39 00:01:42,335 --> 00:01:44,795 You know, I'm a keyboard person. Give me a keyboard. 40 00:01:44,975 --> 00:01:47,835 If you have a problem, I will try to, you know, fix 41 00:01:47,835 --> 00:01:48,835 that issue for you. 42 00:01:49,455 --> 00:01:51,395 So he goes, okay, take a look at things 43 00:01:51,535 --> 00:01:53,635 and see if you can, you can go to classes 44 00:01:53,815 --> 00:01:55,075 and become an architect. 45 00:01:55,575 --> 00:01:57,635 So I became an enterprise architect. 46 00:01:57,835 --> 00:01:59,995 I did this whole certification and, 47 00:02:00,135 --> 00:02:02,715 and took me six months to become an architect. 48 00:02:03,385 --> 00:02:07,275 That really changed how I looked at technology, 49 00:02:07,895 --> 00:02:11,755 and that's where I realized how technology 50 00:02:12,455 --> 00:02:16,755 should be set up to provide business solutions, 51 00:02:17,335 --> 00:02:22,075 how we can expedite everything that a business does, how 52 00:02:22,695 --> 00:02:27,155 we can provide more financial stability to the business and, 53 00:02:27,155 --> 00:02:30,875 and how is technology really the, 54 00:02:31,495 --> 00:02:35,355 the underpinning of everything that a business needs. 55 00:02:36,015 --> 00:02:39,755 Now, as the time really passed, I became more 56 00:02:39,895 --> 00:02:43,835 and more, um, healthcare technology 57 00:02:44,605 --> 00:02:45,915 aware, and, 58 00:02:46,215 --> 00:02:50,715 and as the time passed, I became more 59 00:02:50,855 --> 00:02:54,195 and more aware that more technology, 60 00:02:55,095 --> 00:02:58,315 better technology, simpler technology 61 00:02:58,985 --> 00:03:00,845 can really change healthcare. 62 00:03:01,225 --> 00:03:05,485 So I really fell in love with, with that idea of how 63 00:03:06,255 --> 00:03:08,645 technology can provide better healthcare. 64 00:03:09,185 --> 00:03:12,285 And I have done that for last maybe decade 65 00:03:12,465 --> 00:03:14,325 and a half doing nothing 66 00:03:14,945 --> 00:03:18,125 but trying to improve healthcare through technology. 67 00:03:19,345 --> 00:03:21,755 - Well, that's an amazing journey, um, to really be 68 00:03:21,755 --> 00:03:22,955 where you're at today 69 00:03:23,095 --> 00:03:25,795 and truly to see it as you have done, um, 70 00:03:26,315 --> 00:03:27,995 leverage technology to make healthcare better, 71 00:03:27,995 --> 00:03:31,075 healthcare delivery, healthcare operations, just every part 72 00:03:31,075 --> 00:03:33,715 of it, um, really seems like it can benefit from the 73 00:03:33,715 --> 00:03:34,795 technology side of things. 74 00:03:34,935 --> 00:03:37,675 So that's really cool to hear how you, uh, 75 00:03:37,675 --> 00:03:38,795 came into your current role 76 00:03:38,935 --> 00:03:41,235 and now, you know, what are some of the biggest issues 77 00:03:41,235 --> 00:03:42,355 that you're following today? 78 00:03:42,355 --> 00:03:43,595 What's top of mind for you? 79 00:03:45,175 --> 00:03:46,795 - So, um, couple of things. 80 00:03:46,975 --> 00:03:50,875 Number one, um, um, I'm both the chief technology officer 81 00:03:51,095 --> 00:03:53,915 and, uh, chief Information Security officer. 82 00:03:54,855 --> 00:03:56,675 Um, things are that, that, 83 00:03:56,675 --> 00:03:58,955 that are really prevalent these days is 84 00:03:59,105 --> 00:04:01,675 cybersecurity for healthcare. 85 00:04:02,105 --> 00:04:04,435 Cybersecurity is paramount. 86 00:04:04,575 --> 00:04:09,435 We are, we are under attack from different nations from 87 00:04:09,585 --> 00:04:11,115 different organizations. 88 00:04:11,695 --> 00:04:15,035 So that, that is something that, that we look forward 89 00:04:15,255 --> 00:04:16,355 to defending. 90 00:04:17,055 --> 00:04:19,515 Now, uh, on the other side, um, 91 00:04:19,725 --> 00:04:23,235 being a chief technology officer, we are, we are looking at, 92 00:04:23,695 --> 00:04:28,115 um, more of a machine learning, more of ai, um, 93 00:04:28,495 --> 00:04:32,795 making sure that data is pristine so we can do a lot 94 00:04:32,795 --> 00:04:34,275 of the machine learning and, 95 00:04:34,375 --> 00:04:38,195 and AI individually for, for our healthcare, 96 00:04:38,815 --> 00:04:41,795 and then also both of them bridging together. 97 00:04:42,695 --> 00:04:46,995 How can we use newer technology to defend ourselves? 98 00:04:47,375 --> 00:04:52,235 So we are looking at more AI driven, uh, security tools 99 00:04:52,425 --> 00:04:55,475 that can automate the defense mechanism 100 00:04:56,015 --> 00:04:57,515 as much as possible. 101 00:04:58,105 --> 00:05:02,955 That said, there's always advancement on both sides, so 102 00:05:03,615 --> 00:05:07,115 bad actors are always, you know, already using ai. 103 00:05:07,135 --> 00:05:09,075 So we have to kind of catch up 104 00:05:09,095 --> 00:05:13,795 and figure out what we can do to defend our, our, um, 105 00:05:14,215 --> 00:05:17,555 uh, um, healthcare records for our patients. 106 00:05:17,855 --> 00:05:20,795 So that is really something that we are really 107 00:05:21,315 --> 00:05:23,115 concentrating on both sides. 108 00:05:23,615 --> 00:05:24,835 One side is security, 109 00:05:24,975 --> 00:05:28,835 the other side is more automation orchestration, um, 110 00:05:29,225 --> 00:05:32,675 performance enhancement end of the day, we wanna make sure 111 00:05:32,675 --> 00:05:35,875 that we can provide really superior, um, 112 00:05:35,875 --> 00:05:37,395 healthcare to our patients. 113 00:05:37,495 --> 00:05:42,395 So it all revolves around that, keeping it secure and fast 114 00:05:43,095 --> 00:05:46,635 and the delivery of, of, um, EMR when, 115 00:05:47,115 --> 00:05:49,235 whenever we need it, are the two things 116 00:05:49,235 --> 00:05:51,435 that I am really balancing in 2024. 117 00:05:53,135 --> 00:05:54,145 - That makes a lot of sense. 118 00:05:54,205 --> 00:05:57,285 And certainly as you mentioned, you know, I think having 119 00:05:57,315 --> 00:06:00,285 that artificial intelligence, machine learning strategy, 120 00:06:00,505 --> 00:06:03,325 trying to, um, really keep data clean 121 00:06:03,465 --> 00:06:05,165 and get it organized in a way that's going 122 00:06:05,165 --> 00:06:06,485 to produce the best results, 123 00:06:07,125 --> 00:06:08,685 I think is a huge, huge undertaking. 124 00:06:08,705 --> 00:06:11,085 And then too, as you talked about cybersecurity 125 00:06:11,085 --> 00:06:14,485 and the ever evolving, um, landscape and, 126 00:06:14,545 --> 00:06:18,005 and threat actors that we're seeing out there, I can, um, 127 00:06:18,035 --> 00:06:20,485 just imagine how big of a task that is to try 128 00:06:20,485 --> 00:06:21,565 to stay ahead of it. 129 00:06:21,585 --> 00:06:23,525 And so, you know, when you look at those dual role, 130 00:06:23,555 --> 00:06:26,845 dual roles and, and really how much is changing 131 00:06:26,905 --> 00:06:29,245 and how quickly, how do you stay on top 132 00:06:29,245 --> 00:06:31,845 of all the different things happening in the space, what 133 00:06:32,385 --> 00:06:34,725 are you really, um, doing, I guess, to make sure 134 00:06:34,725 --> 00:06:36,765 that you know, your organization 135 00:06:37,065 --> 00:06:40,925 and, um, your teams really, um, are secure as well 136 00:06:40,925 --> 00:06:43,645 as leveraging technology in the best way possible? 137 00:06:45,155 --> 00:06:47,255 - So, so there, there, there are a couple of things. 138 00:06:47,255 --> 00:06:49,775 One, one of the biggest things is education. 139 00:06:50,455 --> 00:06:53,975 I think providing enough education for people to understand 140 00:06:55,155 --> 00:06:57,175 why we do what we do, 141 00:06:57,565 --> 00:07:01,815 because what we do in, in IT is very different than 142 00:07:01,875 --> 00:07:05,895 how it feels and looks like on, on the clinician side. 143 00:07:06,355 --> 00:07:09,815 So, so we want to educate everyone who is part 144 00:07:09,815 --> 00:07:13,695 of Montage Health so they can understand why certain things 145 00:07:13,805 --> 00:07:18,655 work a certain way, why we block certain things, um, why we, 146 00:07:19,075 --> 00:07:20,775 um, allow certain things. 147 00:07:21,275 --> 00:07:23,335 So that, that, that is one of, 148 00:07:23,435 --> 00:07:25,535 of the main things that we are working on. 149 00:07:26,295 --> 00:07:29,535 Secondly, training our IT staff 150 00:07:30,075 --> 00:07:31,655 to understand the bigger picture 151 00:07:31,755 --> 00:07:34,575 and see what is coming, um, in, in, 152 00:07:34,795 --> 00:07:37,255 in maybe next three months, six months 153 00:07:37,355 --> 00:07:42,335 and 12 months, um, in the technology, uh, realm of things. 154 00:07:43,205 --> 00:07:47,455 With those two, training our HIT, our IT staff 155 00:07:48,155 --> 00:07:51,535 and making sure the education we provide 156 00:07:51,635 --> 00:07:53,415 to the entire enterprise 157 00:07:53,755 --> 00:07:56,655 so they understand why things work the way they work, 158 00:07:57,065 --> 00:08:01,575 which is more streamlined, which we cannot change the things 159 00:08:01,575 --> 00:08:03,775 that we block is why we block 'em. 160 00:08:04,055 --> 00:08:07,855 I think that is a challenge that, that we are, we are kind 161 00:08:07,855 --> 00:08:08,855 of looking forward to, 162 00:08:09,005 --> 00:08:12,335 because at the end of the day, when you explain things right 163 00:08:12,515 --> 00:08:15,055 to anyone and they understand it, 164 00:08:15,445 --> 00:08:17,455 then it makes your life much easier 165 00:08:17,555 --> 00:08:20,775 and your job much easier to do what is the right thing 166 00:08:20,775 --> 00:08:22,375 to do for your enterprise. 167 00:08:22,595 --> 00:08:24,055 So that's where we really stand today. 168 00:08:25,495 --> 00:08:26,955 - Got it. That makes a lot of sense. 169 00:08:27,015 --> 00:08:29,555 You know, it, it is such a valuable skill in order 170 00:08:29,555 --> 00:08:32,155 to have translating and communicating effectively. 171 00:08:32,495 --> 00:08:34,075 Um, and then thinking through, you know, 172 00:08:34,075 --> 00:08:36,515 that big picture item to look down the line. 173 00:08:36,795 --> 00:08:39,835 I, I know that's, um, such an important part of, of teams 174 00:08:39,835 --> 00:08:42,275 that are forward looking and really operating at the best, 175 00:08:42,455 --> 00:08:44,555 um, position they can be in. 176 00:08:44,655 --> 00:08:45,675 It can be really easy 177 00:08:45,775 --> 00:08:48,995 to get stuck into the day-to-day minutiae of tasks and, 178 00:08:48,995 --> 00:08:51,555 and details, but then to have that ability to look forward 179 00:08:51,615 --> 00:08:53,875 and understand the industry as a whole, um, 180 00:08:54,255 --> 00:08:55,925 it just seems like that would be really valuable. 181 00:08:57,325 --> 00:09:00,335 - Absolutely. - Now, you know, in looking ahead, 182 00:09:00,725 --> 00:09:02,055 what are you most excited about 183 00:09:02,055 --> 00:09:03,335 right now and what makes you nervous? 184 00:09:04,925 --> 00:09:09,265 - So, so what I'm excited about really is, is figuring out 185 00:09:10,505 --> 00:09:14,925 how we can deliver an palm of, you know, 186 00:09:15,245 --> 00:09:17,765 somebody's hand, uh, um, healthcare. 187 00:09:18,785 --> 00:09:23,365 Um, what I mean is everyone has a cell phone 188 00:09:23,385 --> 00:09:28,365 or a smartphone the way a baby boomer uses, uh, 189 00:09:28,485 --> 00:09:33,005 a smartphone versus Gen X uses a smartphone versus a 190 00:09:33,285 --> 00:09:36,965 millennial uses a smartphone versus Gen Z 191 00:09:37,345 --> 00:09:39,405 or even now generation alpha. 192 00:09:40,445 --> 00:09:42,445 I think that is really challenging. 193 00:09:42,905 --> 00:09:45,205 You know, they all use, um, 194 00:09:45,685 --> 00:09:50,485 a technology on a very different, you know, sphere. 195 00:09:51,105 --> 00:09:54,725 And I think, I think figuring out how we can satisfy 196 00:09:55,625 --> 00:09:58,445 85 to 90% of everyone 197 00:09:58,625 --> 00:10:02,125 who holds a smartphone is a challenge, 198 00:10:02,505 --> 00:10:05,005 and I look forward to that every single day I wake up 199 00:10:05,005 --> 00:10:07,125 and I, you know, I gotta figure out how I use it, 200 00:10:07,225 --> 00:10:10,325 how my parents use it, how my nieces use it, 201 00:10:10,505 --> 00:10:13,285 and then figure out what would be the best way to provide 202 00:10:14,445 --> 00:10:16,485 sufficient technology or, 203 00:10:16,585 --> 00:10:21,325 or application that can help them be well, 204 00:10:22,065 --> 00:10:24,765 um, can help them be secure 205 00:10:25,465 --> 00:10:28,085 and also help them, uh, uh, 206 00:10:28,875 --> 00:10:31,445 help us provide them healthcare. 207 00:10:31,925 --> 00:10:33,445 I think that is the most challenging 208 00:10:33,445 --> 00:10:36,045 and it really excites me every single day. 209 00:10:36,405 --> 00:10:39,885 I, I wake up, what scares me is, 210 00:10:40,585 --> 00:10:42,845 is almost the same thing. 211 00:10:43,485 --> 00:10:47,325 I think, um, um, the, the, the baby boomers 212 00:10:48,195 --> 00:10:49,565 with, with how they, 213 00:10:49,565 --> 00:10:52,365 they manage the technology is slightly different. 214 00:10:52,745 --> 00:10:55,885 So, so having a phishing attack, having, having something 215 00:10:55,885 --> 00:11:00,685 that is insecure, uh, bad actors, it, it's, it's different 216 00:11:00,835 --> 00:11:02,165 with every single generation 217 00:11:02,165 --> 00:11:04,445 because, you know, their mentality is different. 218 00:11:04,865 --> 00:11:09,285 So managing that part on the security side is 219 00:11:09,555 --> 00:11:11,525 what keeps me up every single night. 220 00:11:11,825 --> 00:11:16,045 So I'm excited, and at the same time I worry about 221 00:11:16,345 --> 00:11:19,005 how it's going to, to to turn out. 222 00:11:19,265 --> 00:11:23,645 So it's kind of, you know, uh, like a bipolar kind of, uh, 223 00:11:23,645 --> 00:11:26,405 personality where I have to kind of manage both sides of it, 224 00:11:26,405 --> 00:11:27,765 the technology piece, and then 225 00:11:28,025 --> 00:11:29,645 of course the security piece of it. 226 00:11:30,795 --> 00:11:32,605 - Yeah, that's such an interesting point, 227 00:11:32,605 --> 00:11:35,325 especially thinking about how, um, as you mentioned, 228 00:11:35,355 --> 00:11:37,845 different employees, different, um, generations 229 00:11:37,845 --> 00:11:40,645 and different mindsets when it comes to, um, the, 230 00:11:40,885 --> 00:11:43,845 I I can imagine, um, technology hygiene and, 231 00:11:43,845 --> 00:11:46,125 and how you manage and use those different devices. 232 00:11:46,865 --> 00:11:50,325 Um, and you know, from your perspective, especially seeing 233 00:11:50,385 --> 00:11:53,445 as how much the healthcare environment is changing, 234 00:11:53,755 --> 00:11:55,285 what do you see as being essential 235 00:11:55,285 --> 00:11:57,605 for the most effective healthcare leaders in order 236 00:11:57,605 --> 00:12:00,005 to be successful in the next two to three years or so? 237 00:12:01,655 --> 00:12:05,015 - I think, um, I think for, for, for a leader 238 00:12:05,075 --> 00:12:09,815 to be a true leader, um, I think you have to, you have 239 00:12:09,815 --> 00:12:11,455 to figure out 240 00:12:12,515 --> 00:12:17,055 and then have some, some, uh, intelligent guesswork 241 00:12:17,715 --> 00:12:19,615 in where the trends are going. 242 00:12:19,995 --> 00:12:24,055 Of course, there's always, um, uh, uh, something 243 00:12:24,085 --> 00:12:26,215 that comes in and there's a disruptor, 244 00:12:26,215 --> 00:12:27,935 and then you have to reset yourself. 245 00:12:28,635 --> 00:12:33,295 Um, if, if you take those out, you, you, you have 246 00:12:33,295 --> 00:12:36,055 to manage how would it look like in the 247 00:12:36,055 --> 00:12:37,255 next two to three years? 248 00:12:37,605 --> 00:12:41,665 Because certain people in your group 249 00:12:42,485 --> 00:12:43,865 are baby boomers. 250 00:12:43,865 --> 00:12:46,265 There are certain group, uh, people in your group 251 00:12:46,615 --> 00:12:49,105 that are Gen X and then so on and so forth, 252 00:12:49,165 --> 00:12:52,345 and you have to manage them in a very different way 253 00:12:52,685 --> 00:12:54,105 to be a successful leader. 254 00:12:54,565 --> 00:12:57,385 Of course, there are, there's some core values of a, 255 00:12:57,385 --> 00:13:01,185 of a leader who can be successful by listening, 256 00:13:01,205 --> 00:13:05,585 by always being curious, by always, um, asking questions 257 00:13:06,165 --> 00:13:08,625 and, and figuring out what is really required. 258 00:13:09,405 --> 00:13:13,025 Now on the other side, understanding 259 00:13:14,335 --> 00:13:17,385 more about the business of healthcare 260 00:13:18,485 --> 00:13:22,955 would really help a lot of the leaders formulate their 261 00:13:23,475 --> 00:13:27,355 roadmaps from security all the way to technology, 262 00:13:27,815 --> 00:13:32,075 to having ML ai, having um, um, the data, 263 00:13:32,455 --> 00:13:35,795 making sure the security is in place, making sure 264 00:13:36,105 --> 00:13:40,435 that we can reach to your home to provide your 265 00:13:40,975 --> 00:13:42,075 you health, healthcare. 266 00:13:42,815 --> 00:13:44,235 Um, we also want 267 00:13:44,235 --> 00:13:46,635 to make sure there's preventative healthcare 268 00:13:46,705 --> 00:13:50,555 that is available to you in the palm of your hand, uh, 269 00:13:50,555 --> 00:13:54,475 making sure that you, you look beyond 270 00:13:54,985 --> 00:13:56,435 what is right in front of you 271 00:13:56,975 --> 00:14:01,715 and kind of take, take the right steps and, 272 00:14:01,855 --> 00:14:05,635 and, and better guess how it's going to look like, 273 00:14:06,515 --> 00:14:09,615 and then formulate your, your, uh, roadmap. 274 00:14:09,815 --> 00:14:13,335 I think that would be really a recipe for success. 275 00:14:13,885 --> 00:14:17,415 Barring that, no, no other, um, um, 276 00:14:17,705 --> 00:14:21,615 disruptors just like chat GPT or, or something kind of comes 277 00:14:22,115 --> 00:14:24,815 and takes things, you know, to a, a different level. 278 00:14:25,335 --> 00:14:27,655 I think that is what I personally think is 279 00:14:27,935 --> 00:14:29,615 required on both sides. 280 00:14:29,615 --> 00:14:33,775 Having a, a great IT team and managing that as a leader 281 00:14:34,035 --> 00:14:37,095 and then also providing great value to the business 282 00:14:37,595 --> 00:14:42,095 by formulating a great roadmap that, you know, 283 00:14:42,185 --> 00:14:44,055 keeps the business intact 284 00:14:44,275 --> 00:14:46,135 and your understanding of, 285 00:14:46,355 --> 00:14:48,815 of healthcare business is extremely important. 286 00:14:50,165 --> 00:14:51,355 - That's fantastic to hear, 287 00:14:51,375 --> 00:14:53,515 and you know, really sums things up very well to hear. 288 00:14:53,565 --> 00:14:55,715 Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. 289 00:14:55,715 --> 00:14:57,395 This has been such a fun conversation 290 00:14:57,415 --> 00:14:59,275 and I look forward to connecting with you again soon. 291 00:15:00,575 --> 00:15:02,575 - Absolutely, same here. Have a wonderful rest of your day.