- This is Laura Dedo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast.
I'm thrilled today to be joined by Jeff Ney,
senior Vice President and Chief Information Officer at Rush
University System for Health.
Jeff, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today.
- Great to be on. Laura, thanks for inviting me.
- Absolutely. Anytime. I know we're excited to have you on
and, and for this conversation,
because I know Rush is doing
so much in the digital health space
and certainly on the forefront of
how transformation is happening in the healthcare.
But before we dive into our broader discussion,
can you tell us a little bit more
about yourself and your background?
- Uh, sure. Yeah. I am, uh, CIO here at Rush.
I've been for the past three years.
Um, prior to that I was a managing director at Deloitte
and a partner at Ernst and Young,
and sandwiched in between those two was a stented,
Northwell Health for about eight years
running IT operations.
So I've had a, you know, a chance
to sit in the vendor chair, a chance to
sit in the professional services chair
and as chance to sit in the operations chair.
And I think it kind of gives you a unique perspective.
So, uh, three years of rush and joining just
after Covid is definitely an interesting, um,
was definitely an interesting experience.
I, I did an orientation session this morning
for new employees at Rush,
and of course when I joined, none
of those things were in person.
In fact, my whole department was remote, so I showed up
and it was like a totally empty floor in an office building.
, which was the laptop sitting on my desk .
It was sort of like the matrix, like,
open this up and join us.
So it was, uh, it was fun.
- Oh, that's great to hear.
And certainly, you know, when you think about all, um,
the different experiences you've had throughout your career,
I can imagine bringing that into now, you know,
how you're running things at Rush, um,
and through the pandemic as well.
It can just, should just be a unique experience.
What are some of your top priorities right now
and what are you spending most of your time on?
- Yeah, you know, I think, um,
I think probably the same things
that many people are spending their time on.
There's a certain amount of sort of legacy.
You know, it, it's kind of like anytime you own something,
whether it's a house or a car
or an IT apartment, there's always some sort of erosion
and decrepitude that's that, uh, sneaks in.
So we, we've spent a lot
of the last two years trying to fix that.
'cause it had been somewhat neglected.
There was a lot of infrastructure
and continues to be a decent amount of infrastructure
and cyber, um, investments that had to be made to sort
of bring the whole place up to code.
We're getting much closer to that.
Um, the last big thing on the application side is an ERP
project, which we've just launched, um, past month.
And so we'll be replacing our ERP solution
and that'll really get us to the place that we need to be
as far as being very current with our systems
and our infrastructure.
Um, so there's that.
There's, um, always cyber
and, you know, never more so than the last few months.
And unfortunately here in Chicagoland, we have one
of our close partners that was attacked with Lurie children.
So that's put everyone on, you know, super high alert, um,
and made us all rethink our
architectures and our protections.
Are they adequate? Uh,
and I would say, you know,
they're never completely adequate.
You're never really completely safe.
And so we've taken , you know, taken a posture
that every outage
or every incident that occurs is a cyber incident
until it's proven not to be that.
So that's consuming an awful lot of, it's, its a lot
of resources to remain that vigilant
and sort of always be, uh, you know, waiting
for the fire bill to ring.
And then on the positive side, you know, looking
beyond those two things, we're carving out a lot of time
and a lot of resource towards improving our digital
health presence and reimagining our business models
with digital as kind
of a digital first view, um, of things.
And that's taken, you know, all kinds of different, um,
forms, whether it be improving our text, text, um,
capabilities to engage with patients so, uh, via text
and allow them to do, um, self-serve in a lot
of different ways using just text to, um,
co-developing a new application with a, a startup company
to adding in features like the ability to, uh,
let people know about wait times
and deflect them to other places.
We have a very nice Starbucks here on campus,
and we know there's a 15 or 20 minute wait at the campus.
You may get an alert from us to go grab a cup
of coffee on us at Starbucks while, while we clear the,
the queue, and then we'll let you know when
it's time to come back up.
So we're focusing a lot on sort of low tech features
and the digital experience that have, that are real patient
and, and, and, uh, customer satisfiers.
And then of course, AI is, you know,
a very large priority for us.
And again, I think trying to, what I call kind
of lunch pail ai.
So, you know, using AI
and kind of simple ways to improve our effectiveness
as opposed to vast, you know, deep ai, um,
projects we're trying to do, small ones
that have real payback and um,
and are integrated, most importantly,
integrated with the workflow.
And we never want service of AI to force people
to step out of what they're doing.
It should make them more efficient
and more effective than, than less so.
So those, those things legacy that cyber, digital
and ai, they are probably taking up 90% of my
- That's fascinating to hear.
And certainly I can imagine, as you were talking
through all this, I mean,
obviously cybersecurity is a huge challenge in, in trying
to figure out how to manage the resources there
to the most effectiveness possible.
Um, is is great.
And then, you know, when you look at, um,
as you were just mentioning AI
and, um, some of the simple ways that you're able
to apply it, um, into the organization
and operational efficiencies.
I mean, can you share one
or two examples of ways that you've really been able
to use artificial intelligence, um, in, in some of those,
um, aspects, I guess, of the health systems
to improve effectiveness?
- Yeah, we, and we take a pretty broad definition of ai.
So I know Gen AI is sort of the darling in the moment,
but, um, you know, we've been using AI in, for instance,
diagnostic radiology for a long time.
And what we've done just recently is, um,
established a partnership with Bayer Klan
to which really offers a framework
for using artificial intelligence protocols.
Many of them, you know, from multiple vendors in the care
of a, of a patient, um, that sort
of lets you click those modules in
and provides a consistent interface for the radiologist
and data interface for the AI module.
Um, and we think that's gonna have a big impact on,
you know, both quality as well as speed
and effectiveness of our, um, diagnos diagnostic,
uh, radiologists.
We were an early adopter of nuance for ambient listening,
and we're intrigued by the idea
of using ambient listening in a lot of other settings,
not just in the clinic and not just for clinician notes.
How could it be used in nursing?
How could it be used in, um, other diagnostic areas?
How could it be used potentially with patients?
We have a AI enabled integrated voice
and response system that sits in front of our access center
so that patients are able to use their voice to self-serve,
um, a bunch of different functions.
And we've had some success with that.
So how do we extend that when it comes to ambient listening?
Uh, and then on the gen AI front, say we're,
we've been working pretty closely with, um, epic
and ServiceNow,
and, uh, we'll be working pretty closely with Salesforce
around their Einstein tool set to apply some
of those technologies to our stack, big stack vendors,
big box vendors, um,
and then standing up our own AI chat, GDT
and, you know, large language model
environment later this year.
So we can begin to experiment in a more structured way
with some of those tools.
We're currently prototyping copilot, um, Microsoft's copilot
for Office 365.
Also let people, you know, try out the tech
and get a better understanding
and adjust their expectations of what it can do
and what it isn't so good at.
Because, uh, regardless of what you may read,
it's not not gonna solve all problems .
So, although I sure absolutely would,
but it's not, not likely to. Yeah.
- Yeah. Wouldn't that be nice just
to have a button you can press, um,
and AI will deal with everything that comes up.
,
- I think the button exists
and I think it will deal with it,
but it doesn't mean that it'll deal with it correctly.
. And that's what we're, you know, that's
what we have to be cautious about is
'cause I do think, unfortunately there is a button
and unfortunately it will deal,
but, uh, making sure it does it safely and ethically
and doesn't create, you know, more inequities, uh,
and health access and so forth, there are all the things
that we worry about and spend time on, you know,
to make sure that it's, it's a useful tool
and not one that potentially causes other issues.
- Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. Um, well, perfect.
Well, you know, in, in given,
whether it's artificial intelligence, digital health or,
or some of the other areas that are really, um, emerging,
um, for patient self service
and the patient experience,
how do you see Rush evolving over the next
two to three years or so?
What areas are you continuing to zero in on
or are there any, uh, new spaces
that you expect to get into?
- Yeah, I think our, our strategy, our,
our digital strategy really has these three
major pillars to it.
There's one that's very focused on the consumer,
and I say consumer
because in addition to being a healthcare organization,
we're also a university.
We have students, we have applicants, um,
and then we have employees, you know, that also want
to interact and need to interact with us.
So it's a, it's a consumer focused strategy.
And then there's another pillar that's
around care transformation.
So how do we change, how do we change how we deliver care,
either in augmenting it
or in supporting completely different models
for delivering care using digital technology.
And then the third pillar is really
around operations efficiency.
How do you use this technology to become more efficient
and find ways of either, um, accelerating steps
through like robotic process automation as an example,
or removing steps entirely from the work flow, um, like, uh,
automated chart reviews is there.
Um, so they have, we have these three pillars.
And then within the con the consumer strategy, there's sort
of two parts to that.
One is making ourselves very easy to access.
So streamlining the process
and letting people choose their, their journey.
And, um, you know, having a multi-channel view of that so
that people can engage with us through an app,
through the web, through a phone call, text message,
through any different which way, whatever,
whatever their preferred way of communicating.
And then the second part that supports
that is creating a very personalized experience, folks so
that they, not just a generic one them, but,
but actually somebody who's engaged with them on a trusted,
uh, source of information
and advisor to them as they plan their care
or plan their student experience.
- That makes a lot of sense.
And, you know, really, um, sounds like it'll be exciting
to see how all of that evolves and grows and,
and, um, you know, can, can lead to that better experience
for patients and healthcare consumers as well as, you know,
the, the team within the health system at large.
Um, I, I'm wondering
before we wrap up here, could you talk about one change
that you or your team has made recently
that yielded great results?
- Um, sure. I, I, I think maybe two changes, um,
uh, if you don't mind kind of related to one another.
Um, first is we just recently completed implementation
of a new customer, kind of 360 architecture.
So the idea that we have all of this information
and puddles of data all across the health system, each one
of which you may have some of your data
and maybe you were a student,
maybe you've given money to us before.
Maybe you were part of our, one of our community programs.
Maybe you've been a patient, maybe a family member's,
been a patient, really all of those encounters
lived in different databases until very recent.
Just put in this infrastructure to connect all of that,
to give us a much more holistic view of
who our customers are, what their preferences are,
what their experiences have been, so that at that point
of contact, we're able to bring all of that knowledge
to bear and sort of suggest
what the next best action could be.
And that could be very kind of subtle.
For instance, a person
who called into the call center the other day was calling in
for one particular thing,
but they had three referrals
that they had never followed up on.
And we were able to surface that information.
And so the agent was able to actually help them schedule all
of the care so close that care gap
know in, in one phone call.
So it, it could be subtle, but it could be major.
And then what's related to that is really taking
how our staff is organized
and how they think about what they do
and turning it on its side.
Which is to say, you know, traditionally, like most other
epic shops in particular are,
are folks have been primarily in swim lanes.
They're, you know, experts atomos module
or they're experts at Epic,
but they're not generally thinking about things
outside of that swim lane.
Have to really turn that on its side
and say, no, no, let's think about the whole workflow.
'cause it's not just an epic workflow anymore.
Now there's half a dozen other things that light up that
and make that work.
You have to think about those tools
and think about how they enable the workflow different way.
And that's, you know, it's been a challenge
because like I said, we have trained people to be really,
really good in their swim lanes
and now we're asking them to think about the whole pool.
And sometimes that's, uh, that's a challenging transition,
but I think that's the one that'll bear the greatest fruit
for us as we go forward.
'cause I think that's the reality, you know,
particularly in digital
and AI, is you really do have to think across those silos.
- That makes a lot of sense.
And, you know, it is just fascinating to kind of think
through how the technology is now
enabling so much more to happen.
But you know, really truly now, um, knocking down some
of those silos that we've been talking about for years,
needing to, um, be more integrated between teams.
When you go about that process, um, of trying to change
how people are thinking about their day-to-day
responsibilities and what growth looks like,
and, um, really truly, you know, uh, get them, um,
thinking differently about how the organization runs in,
in the connective tissue there, is there anything
that you have found particularly effective in communicating
that and really, um, uh, inspiring change?
- Um, I think the, probably the thing
that's been most effective is to make people aware that
that's how it's going to be going forward.
And inviting them to be part of the planning
and design process so that folks feel invested in,
they don't feel left behind.
So I think a lot of communication,
of course, that's a challenge.
We're a hybrid, um, workforce, largely remote.
We have folks part of our workforce
that work in more than 20 different states.
So in the old days of pulling people together in a room
and then kind of whiteboarding things out
are very different today.
So how we engage with people
and how we inspire them had
to adapt from the last three years significantly.
So over communicating is, um, definitely part of it.
And then I would say, you know, some formal training
and some assignments, the projects that are stretch projects
where they may not know everything going in, um,
but learn on the job, the old, you know,
toy people into the deep end of the pool, most
of them do learn to swim.
Few do sink .
So we want to save them because,
because we need, we need the whole,
we need everybody in the village,
not just some people in the village.
Yeah. Um, but, uh,
but for the most part, you know, I think this,
there's the training you can do,
there's the communication you can do,
but there's no real remedy for real experience.
So we try to put people into safe spots
where they can participate in projects and grow.
Um, and that's been so far pretty successful.
There's lots more room to continue to do that,
but I, I think it also signifies to the rest of the staff
that we have a commitment to continually investing
and continually growing them.
And I want us to be thought of as a place
where people can come and grow their career
and not just, you know, do the one thing
that they're really well known for over and over again,
but can branch out and, and learn new things
and participate, you know, in, in, uh, change.
Because our, that's the one constant right in our health.
It is, uh, is change.
- Absolutely. That's such a great philosophy
and way to approach things.
Jeff, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today.
This has been a fascinating discussion.
I, you know, really learned a lot.
It made me think a lot about
how technology is really evolving in the healthcare space.
Look forward to, um, having you back again soon
and it'll be great to see you, um,
speaking at our live events as well upcoming here.
- Thanks Laura. Really looking forward to it.
And I, thanks again for the opportunity.
I really appreciate it. Always enjoy, uh, working
with Becker, so thank you.