- This is Laura Dedo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast.
I'm thrilled today to be joined by Tom Ola, vice Chancellor
of Information Technology
and Data, as well as Chief Digital Officer for uc, Irvine.
Tom, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today,
- Laura.
It's wonderful to be back on the podcast. Thank you.
- Absolutely. You know, and I'm always fascinated
by our conversations, you know, we,
we really dig into some media and interesting topics,
and so I'm excited to do the same today as well.
And first off, you know, I was wondering,
how did you become interested in health tech
for keeping people healthy?
Is there a personal story here,
or how does that connect to your career?
- Yeah, there, there is a personal story, and,
and exactly as you said,
it connects, it connects to my career.
It's like an intersection of your personal life
and your professional life in a way
that I wouldn't have anticipated.
Uh, so, you know, as, as you know,
I've been in the healthcare industry
most of my professional career.
You know, I've been involved in
how technology has impacted healthcare.
You know, over a couple of decades, uh, you know,
when software became, uh, a very important part of the way
that healthcare organizations work
and patient care works, how the data from, you know,
that's generated through technology
and software became the value proposition.
I always say it's like the MRI is tech,
but the image is data
and the diagnosis comes from the data, right?
So the data value proposition started
to become a much more important thing
for anyone in the healthcare ecosystem.
And then it's been about big data and multimodal data,
and now we're talking about AI all the time.
So, yeah, so I've been a part of that.
But, you know, as, as we as, uh, you know, my, my colleague,
uh, Jeff Margoles always says, when it comes
to the health system, you are sometimes a patient,
but you're also a consumer.
And that's no different for me, right?
So, you know, as I was getting older
and I started seeing changes in my health situation,
you know, I started to take more of an interest,
like from a professional perspective.
I know how this goes for patients,
and I started to see some of those changes in my own life.
And so, you know, trying to be an empowered health consumer,
I started taking more active interest, uh, in, you know,
I knew what the right decisions were, most of us do,
but how do I know that I'm making the right decisions?
And of course, since I'm a data person, how am I using data
to inform my health decisions that I'm making going forward?
And so that, you know, created this kind of educate myself,
how do I find the evidence, you know, to know the things
that I'm doing or working.
It led me to understand the difference
between really the sick care market
and the healthcare market
and concepts like the difference between lifespan
and healthspan, right?
So this journey, uh, of really going, uh,
deeper into understanding and to be very, very data driven
and asking questions like, well, how valuable is it
for my one annual visit
to see my primary care physician versus data
that I might collect on myself every day
and have 365 days worth of, of data
and trends to understand what's going on around am I
the healthiest person that I could be?
Do I own this data or is the health
system, uh, own this data?
Can I take that data and give it to another doctor
or to a research team?
And so that led me to do kind
of novel things like wave my HIPAA rights so I could
actually port my data more freely
and give it to whoever I wanted to.
And for example, research teams
around the country have my data sets
and are doing things with them.
I started participating in clinical trials,
but saying, look, I'll participate if you'll give the data
you collect on me back into me for my kind
of personal health data store.
And so, you know, kind
of what's happened over time is I've kind
of become this empowered health consumer.
And, you know, that's kind of a new thing in our society
through people who've bought
wearables and those types of things.
Uh, my wife thinks I take it a little bit
farther than normal, right?
Because, you know, it's the aura ring, it's the smart scale,
it's the blood blood pressure cuff, it's the nutrition app.
And so I've got about a hundred data points
every day about my health situations I've been collecting
for a number of years now
that really have informed my health journey in a very,
very data-driven way that I can talk about,
but I also can share with others
and give them kind of perspectives of what happened,
how do I know, um, in ways
that people find very interesting.
- That is definitely fascinating to hear.
And certainly, you know, what a,
a great opportunity you have to, um, collect all that data
and that information and,
and really see how it works together to, um,
build the picture of your health
and inform your decision making going forwards.
So, you know, in thinking about everything
that you take a look at every day and are measure
and tracking, what are some of the specific trends
that you're keeping your eye on right now and, and tracking?
- Yeah, so there's having data and then there's using data
and, and using data means, you know,
am I making more informed decisions?
And, you know, I'm a big fan of, uh, Peter Atia, you know,
and, and you know, he recently put out a book talking about
was book was called Outlive,
and it's the Science and Art of Longevity.
I, I was really a big fan of that book when it came out,
you know, and he talks about the four horsemen and,
and the horsemen are the four disease categories
that usually kind of take away our health span, you know,
uh, metabolic disease, cardiovascular disease, you know, uh,
cancer and now neurodegenerative disease,
you know, in that category.
And so I really try to, you know,
think about it from a risk management perspective in terms
of, am I doing the things?
Am I, the things that I'm tracking are kind of tied
to keeping those things out, right?
So food and nutrition, really making sure
that from a metabolic health perspective, uh,
I've got a pretty good view on what's going on.
Cardiovascular, kind of, you know,
exercise and those types of things.
Neurogenerative disease, sleep, sleep is
so important from the standpoint
of giving your body a chance to clear out all those,
you know, all those bad substances that are floating around
and especially in the brain.
And so, you know, I use kind of, you know, kind of these,
these models, again, evidence-based models that
that medical professionals come out.
And I say, how can I incorporate that into way
that I'm managing my personal health situation?
And then how do I, can I collect data
and look at that data over time to tell me, you know,
are, are things changing?
Right? Are things changing? 'cause as we, as we age,
we start to see changes,
but we can be surprised by them if we're not actually kind
of monitoring them.
And that's kind of how, you know, I've started then using,
um, you know, kinda using the data myself
and then also trying to use the, the, the medical, uh,
profession to help inform my choices
or the way that I think about problems.
I, I, one of the jokes I like to tell people,
I just like give people like, well, gimme an example Tom.
It's like, well, you know, I am one
of those annoying patients, you know,
who might be sitting with their doctor.
And the doctor says like, well, you know, you know,
you should really worry about heart disease.
It's like, how much red meat do you eat?
You know, and the average patient will say it's like, oh,
I don't know, maybe, you know, four or five times a month.
And it's based on kind of, you know,
recalling into your brain and thinking about it.
You know, I'm the annoying patient
who, who will say something.
It's like, well, um, over the last two years, you know,
I've averaged, you know,
2.4 times per month eating red meat on an average
of about three ounces per sitting.
You know? And I'm like, I've got the data
to back that number up.
Right. You know, and it's kind of funny
because for some people it's like way over the top.
But for me it's just about being informed, uh,
to make the best decisions that are right for me.
- Well, that's fascinating.
And, you know, truly, truly amazing that you can collect
that information, as you said, have the data to back that up
and really, um, be precise about what you're doing
and what you're, um, you know, talking through
with your clinicians, Laura,
- On per, you know, that, that kind of precise, you know,
sometimes people say it's like, Tom,
I could never be that disciplined .
And I, and I, and I said, well, what if I told you
that you could kind of, you know, to the 90% level,
track your day, track what you eat for Nutri.
I I don't track food or calories.
I, I I track for nutrition achievement.
I'm like, what if I said you could do that in five
to seven minutes per day?
Does that sound like an overly
disciplined thing to ask of you?
And people are like, no, that doesn't sound bad at all.
I'm like, well, that's really all it takes, right?
It's little, it's little things.
It's not, you know, we're not talking about something
that is gonna change your entire lifestyle to be able to do.
And I think that's the balance I've found, is it's
so incorporated in that it's almost happening just as part
of life rather than it looks like I'm doing something overly
disciplined that's not sustainable.
- Absolutely. That makes a ton of sense.
You know, and certainly, um, is easy
to devote just a few minutes a day to really, um,
becoming more conscientious about how, uh,
we're treating our bodies, what we're putting in, and,
and how we really are looking at our health.
And, you know, I, I understand that you're also working
with some companies, um, along these lines.
What are the companies that you're working with
and how are they leaning into the consumer wellness market?
- Yeah, certainly this market has gotten huge, right?
Certainly the wearable movement
and, you know, apple Watch and Fitbits.
And so, you know, there are, there are millions
of people now walking around with these, and, and,
and some of those, you know,
some of those things I work with.
The other thing I'll say about kind of this space is not
that I'm in this category, right?
But if you had the money and you bought a Lamborghini,
then all of a sudden you kind of find the other people
who also own Lamborghinis,
and you find these things in common.
And so, you know, you find individuals who are kind
of into this space.
Um, you know, people like Larry Smar who used
to be a professor at uc, San Diego, who might be the most,
you know, the most measured, you know, individual in terms
of some of the data that he has around himself.
Uh, I think of Mike Snyder, who's at Stanford, you know,
who's done research on this,
but is also kind of a personal, uh, you know,
personal health and personal measurement person.
But some of the companies that, you know, worked with,
you know, kind of beyond kind of the device companies.
Um, and, you know, thinking about Apple,
and you've got the Apple, apple Health app is,
you know, this is a great one.
It's called Measured Wellness.
And it's a very, very early stage company.
But think of it as, you know, um, a,
a data science consultation around your data in the same way
that your medical image is sent to a radiologist
for a read and a report.
So think about your wearable data going to a specialist,
a combination of medical profession
and data scientist, uh, service that basically says,
well, you know, you know, looking at your data over time,
your cardiovascular patient,
'cause they might be working with the patient directly
or they might be working with the primary care physician
who ordered the quote unquote consultation.
It's like, you know, here's some things
that we see in their data
that might be valuable when you kind of sit down with them
and help them manage their cardiovascular state.
Um, also, you know, uh, the, the doctors
that measure wellness also work directly
with patients in a primary care fashion
and use that data as a conversation piece
to change the nature of the doctor patient discussion.
'cause you're now just not just talking about generalities
or what do you recall, but you're saying, look, we,
you know, we've been looking at your data over the last six
months, you know, there are things going on in your life.
'cause your, your, your quote unquote, your stress levels
and your resiliency factors look
to have changed over the last six months.
Is there something that we should talk about?
And so, measured Wellness is one of those companies.
Um, uh, there's a company called Engage Three I work
with in, in a new initiative.
It's kind of a spinoff of their core business, uh, working
with retailers called Project Health,
where they've had a very successful business working
with retailers, really driving price optimization
to help retailers to price their products,
to optimize the balance between price, margin, and volume.
Right? Because, you know, when you're a retailer like a
grocer, it's all about volume of, of churn
and how much revenue you get for a shelf space.
But now they're saying, look, we could take this model,
we could apply it to help people make better food choices.
And if you think about what, you know, the Walmarts
of the world and the CVSs of the world are doing in terms
of, you know, generating a a, a place
where the health consumer is gonna interact, you know,
and that concept of you, you know, prime, uh,
Walmart's become your primary care physician
and they might write your prescription,
but they also might be able to point you towards food
that's in that store
that quote unquote might be the equivalent healthy decisions
to manage, let's say high blood pressure.
This type of optimization engine could become very valuable
to quote unquote manage the, the incentives associated
with getting, um, patients to make better decisions
for themselves through food,
which they're gonna go by anyway.
Um, and then I've got a couple of research teams that,
you know, are working on things
that might become spin out opportunities, uh, you know,
in things like personal health navigators
that really look at personalization and proactive care
and pulling your data together, allowing you
to put multimodal data together, right?
Because it's, you know, you've got waveforms,
you've got alphanumeric data,
you might have medical imaging, uh, lab test results.
And so, you know, how do you start to get that data together
and find insights across different data types
through different types of, uh, AI techniques?
And then, you know, this company's also, these,
this team is also now pivoting with kind
of generative AI tools
and the concept of health agents, right?
So you may have read some things recently about people
talking about, you know, generative AI
and evolving to agents, so, you know, not just
generating content,
but actually helping in decision making,
task completion and those types of things.
And so, uh, uh, open CHA, uh, which stands
for Conversational Health Agents is a personalized l large
language model, um, age, uh, agent platform
where it's not just how you're having a conversation
with you about your data and the right decisions,
but it's also looking to connect you to the right resources.
And, you know, today as an example,
I look at my nutrition achievement maybe
before I go to dinner, and it might inform what I plan
to eat if I'm, my wife and I are eating out that night,
but what if the agent were to actually be,
here are the best places for you
to eat given the nutritional achievement
that you still haven't gotten today.
And so it's kind of, you know, given me the recommendation
and someday might even make that, you know, if I click yes,
makes that, uh, you know, that reservation for us.
So, you know, there's lots of things in this new world
that's gonna be powered through ai.
It's not just gonna be about analyzing data,
but it's gonna be about connecting what comes out of that,
those insights and helping you take the next step
or get to the right step.
And so these companies I think are very exciting.
They're very early stage,
but I think these are the types of companies
that you're gonna read about, you know,
1, 2, 3 years from now that are going to impact the,
the healthcare, uh, um, the healthcare space.
- Well, that's great to hear
and just fascinating to see
how quickly these things are evolving in, you know, uh,
just really as you were talking through the different ways
that AI is playing a part in this, the different, um,
opportunities to really connect people
with the right resources
and, um, develop a deeper understanding
is, is really so cool.
Where do you see some of the big opportunities
for physicians and health systems to use this data
for more targeted wellness plans as well? Yeah,
- I, I, I think this movement, uh,
really provides an opportunity,
and I've learned this from, uh, Dr.
Mike car, uh, Carrizo, who, you know, who's the CEO
and really founder of, of measured wellness.
It provides this opportunity to really change the nature
of the conversation between the patient and, and the,
and the medical professional.
Let, let, let's, in this case,
let's just call it the doctor, your primary
care physician, right?
Because, uh, instead of this kind of searching to try
to find the right question, find the right answer,
you're now talking, you're looking at an evidence based
through data, and you can actually target the conversations
and have a different type of conversation.
You know, I've always said,
or at least I've been on this journey, you know, I,
I've started to think about, it's like, you know, um,
I have a, um, a financial person who I talk
through my long-term financial goals for have
for my adult life, whether it's what, you know, they have
for my family to send my kids to college,
why isn't my primary care physician
interaction similar to that?
I want to be a healthy person.
I wanna live into my later years
and to be able to do the things that I wanna do
to climb a flight of stairs, to be able
to go on a five mile hike to run around
with my grandkids someday, right?
Why is my conversation about not about what are the things
that I need to do?
Why is it not a consultation rather than this kind
of just kind of back
and forth where I don't really feel a lot
of value other than it's been a touch point
that happens once a year.
Why can't it be a different conversation?
Why can't it be an ongoing conversation
where technology is touching base
with me on a very regular basis,
nudging me in the right direction?
And then, you know, the, the, the conversation
that we have once a year is a much more informed
conversation about, I can see the decisions
that you're making for the other 6,364 days of your life,
and I think you need to really think about
some additional changes here.
You gotta get up from that chair
and out from that computer more.
Why don't you take more zoom calls via walks, right?
Why are we not talking about those things through data?
And so I think the doctor patient, um,
conversation has an opportunity to really deepen a change
and deepen, uh, through what we see coming
through technology and data.
- That definitely makes a lot of sense, you know,
and certainly is a reality that you can imagine in terms
of having those, um, really intelligent conversations,
data-driven, um, talking points and,
and really action items that you can take back.
And patients really are able to then be empowered
to stay healthy and live healthier lives.
How do you see this work evolving over the next
two to three years or so?
- Yeah, I, I, I think like we're seeing in a lot
of ways in our society right now through this, you know,
phenomenon of ai, I think it's gonna move very fast, right?
I mean, I think we're gonna see new types of services
and touch points become available to us, uh, you know,
at rapid paces, uh,
faster than we bought, probably able to consume it.
Um, you know, one of the, you know, one
of my mentors once taught me it's like, look,
the future's already here.
It's just unevenly distributed.
He used to say, and I think that's exactly
what we're seeing now, is that, you know,
these advances are happening very fast.
They're becoming available certain, you know, uh,
certain people who, you know, you know, who can,
like myself, I get a chance to kind of follow the space.
So I see things earlier than let's say the, you know, the,
you know, the large population does.
So I think we're gonna see these things, um,
come about very fast.
I think the adoption of them
and then the equity around the adoption of them is the thing
that we really need to come back
and think, uh, think, uh, um, broadly about,
because, you know, these things also are advances
and they, they benefit people,
but if they benefit only small parts of the population,
or let's say, um, pa parts of the population who, um,
who are more privileged, it doesn't
address the larger challenges that we have
as a society, right?
So I think we're gonna see fast evolution.
I think the focus point needs to, how do we bring this to
large percentages of our population,
or as is becoming more popular, how do we bring AI to all
and not just a select few?
So that's my hope for the next two to three years.
- That's amazing to hear.
And, and certainly, you know, so important to keep those,
uh, gaps in mind.
Tom, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today.
This has been a fascinating discussion.
It really, you know, cutting edge things
that we're talking about today that are a reality
and continue, will continue to grow and develop and evolve.
I appreciate your time here
and look forward to connecting with you again very soon,
- Laura.
Thanks for having me.