1 00:00:00,265 --> 00:00:02,555 - This is Laura Dedo with the Becker's Healthcare Podcast. 2 00:00:03,175 --> 00:00:06,235 I'm thrilled today to be joined by Tom Ola, vice Chancellor 3 00:00:06,235 --> 00:00:07,235 of Information Technology 4 00:00:07,375 --> 00:00:10,395 and Data, as well as Chief Digital Officer for uc, Irvine. 5 00:00:10,735 --> 00:00:12,515 Tom, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast today, 6 00:00:13,125 --> 00:00:14,125 - Laura. 7 00:00:14,125 --> 00:00:15,155 It's wonderful to be back on the podcast. Thank you. 8 00:00:16,195 --> 00:00:17,795 - Absolutely. You know, and I'm always fascinated 9 00:00:17,795 --> 00:00:19,515 by our conversations, you know, we, 10 00:00:19,695 --> 00:00:22,315 we really dig into some media and interesting topics, 11 00:00:22,415 --> 00:00:24,515 and so I'm excited to do the same today as well. 12 00:00:24,655 --> 00:00:26,875 And first off, you know, I was wondering, 13 00:00:26,935 --> 00:00:28,915 how did you become interested in health tech 14 00:00:29,455 --> 00:00:30,475 for keeping people healthy? 15 00:00:30,815 --> 00:00:32,115 Is there a personal story here, 16 00:00:32,215 --> 00:00:34,275 or how does that connect to your career? 17 00:00:34,905 --> 00:00:37,075 - Yeah, there, there is a personal story, and, 18 00:00:37,175 --> 00:00:38,795 and exactly as you said, 19 00:00:38,975 --> 00:00:40,635 it connects, it connects to my career. 20 00:00:40,635 --> 00:00:42,475 It's like an intersection of your personal life 21 00:00:42,475 --> 00:00:43,875 and your professional life in a way 22 00:00:43,875 --> 00:00:45,835 that I wouldn't have anticipated. 23 00:00:46,655 --> 00:00:49,755 Uh, so, you know, as, as you know, 24 00:00:49,785 --> 00:00:51,075 I've been in the healthcare industry 25 00:00:51,075 --> 00:00:52,195 most of my professional career. 26 00:00:52,375 --> 00:00:53,435 You know, I've been involved in 27 00:00:53,435 --> 00:00:55,595 how technology has impacted healthcare. 28 00:00:55,855 --> 00:00:58,835 You know, over a couple of decades, uh, you know, 29 00:00:58,835 --> 00:01:02,275 when software became, uh, a very important part of the way 30 00:01:02,275 --> 00:01:03,915 that healthcare organizations work 31 00:01:03,935 --> 00:01:07,675 and patient care works, how the data from, you know, 32 00:01:07,695 --> 00:01:09,235 that's generated through technology 33 00:01:09,235 --> 00:01:11,195 and software became the value proposition. 34 00:01:11,435 --> 00:01:14,315 I always say it's like the MRI is tech, 35 00:01:14,975 --> 00:01:16,835 but the image is data 36 00:01:17,215 --> 00:01:19,795 and the diagnosis comes from the data, right? 37 00:01:19,795 --> 00:01:21,675 So the data value proposition started 38 00:01:21,675 --> 00:01:23,515 to become a much more important thing 39 00:01:23,515 --> 00:01:25,155 for anyone in the healthcare ecosystem. 40 00:01:25,535 --> 00:01:28,195 And then it's been about big data and multimodal data, 41 00:01:28,195 --> 00:01:29,915 and now we're talking about AI all the time. 42 00:01:30,415 --> 00:01:31,755 So, yeah, so I've been a part of that. 43 00:01:32,255 --> 00:01:35,675 But, you know, as, as we as, uh, you know, my, my colleague, 44 00:01:35,735 --> 00:01:38,035 uh, Jeff Margoles always says, when it comes 45 00:01:38,055 --> 00:01:41,755 to the health system, you are sometimes a patient, 46 00:01:42,015 --> 00:01:43,235 but you're also a consumer. 47 00:01:43,535 --> 00:01:45,715 And that's no different for me, right? 48 00:01:45,855 --> 00:01:48,435 So, you know, as I was getting older 49 00:01:48,435 --> 00:01:51,755 and I started seeing changes in my health situation, 50 00:01:52,555 --> 00:01:54,215 you know, I started to take more of an interest, 51 00:01:54,215 --> 00:01:56,015 like from a professional perspective. 52 00:01:56,295 --> 00:01:57,855 I know how this goes for patients, 53 00:01:57,855 --> 00:01:59,855 and I started to see some of those changes in my own life. 54 00:01:59,875 --> 00:02:03,015 And so, you know, trying to be an empowered health consumer, 55 00:02:03,215 --> 00:02:06,895 I started taking more active interest, uh, in, you know, 56 00:02:06,895 --> 00:02:08,735 I knew what the right decisions were, most of us do, 57 00:02:08,755 --> 00:02:12,175 but how do I know that I'm making the right decisions? 58 00:02:12,235 --> 00:02:15,935 And of course, since I'm a data person, how am I using data 59 00:02:16,115 --> 00:02:20,295 to inform my health decisions that I'm making going forward? 60 00:02:20,755 --> 00:02:24,615 And so that, you know, created this kind of educate myself, 61 00:02:24,755 --> 00:02:27,175 how do I find the evidence, you know, to know the things 62 00:02:27,175 --> 00:02:28,175 that I'm doing or working. 63 00:02:29,115 --> 00:02:30,895 It led me to understand the difference 64 00:02:30,895 --> 00:02:33,535 between really the sick care market 65 00:02:33,635 --> 00:02:34,935 and the healthcare market 66 00:02:35,515 --> 00:02:38,295 and concepts like the difference between lifespan 67 00:02:38,315 --> 00:02:39,335 and healthspan, right? 68 00:02:39,355 --> 00:02:42,495 So this journey, uh, of really going, uh, 69 00:02:42,495 --> 00:02:45,535 deeper into understanding and to be very, very data driven 70 00:02:45,635 --> 00:02:49,415 and asking questions like, well, how valuable is it 71 00:02:49,435 --> 00:02:50,975 for my one annual visit 72 00:02:51,035 --> 00:02:54,295 to see my primary care physician versus data 73 00:02:54,295 --> 00:02:56,575 that I might collect on myself every day 74 00:02:56,595 --> 00:02:59,845 and have 365 days worth of, of data 75 00:03:00,025 --> 00:03:03,605 and trends to understand what's going on around am I 76 00:03:04,145 --> 00:03:05,645 the healthiest person that I could be? 77 00:03:06,865 --> 00:03:08,365 Do I own this data or is the health 78 00:03:08,365 --> 00:03:09,805 system, uh, own this data? 79 00:03:10,025 --> 00:03:12,525 Can I take that data and give it to another doctor 80 00:03:12,665 --> 00:03:13,845 or to a research team? 81 00:03:14,025 --> 00:03:15,605 And so that led me to do kind 82 00:03:15,605 --> 00:03:19,045 of novel things like wave my HIPAA rights so I could 83 00:03:19,685 --> 00:03:21,605 actually port my data more freely 84 00:03:21,605 --> 00:03:23,085 and give it to whoever I wanted to. 85 00:03:23,105 --> 00:03:24,485 And for example, research teams 86 00:03:24,485 --> 00:03:26,405 around the country have my data sets 87 00:03:26,705 --> 00:03:27,805 and are doing things with them. 88 00:03:28,405 --> 00:03:30,525 I started participating in clinical trials, 89 00:03:30,585 --> 00:03:33,245 but saying, look, I'll participate if you'll give the data 90 00:03:33,265 --> 00:03:35,765 you collect on me back into me for my kind 91 00:03:35,925 --> 00:03:37,445 of personal health data store. 92 00:03:38,145 --> 00:03:39,245 And so, you know, kind 93 00:03:39,245 --> 00:03:41,325 of what's happened over time is I've kind 94 00:03:41,325 --> 00:03:43,245 of become this empowered health consumer. 95 00:03:43,705 --> 00:03:45,765 And, you know, that's kind of a new thing in our society 96 00:03:45,765 --> 00:03:46,685 through people who've bought 97 00:03:46,685 --> 00:03:47,965 wearables and those types of things. 98 00:03:48,625 --> 00:03:50,285 Uh, my wife thinks I take it a little bit 99 00:03:50,285 --> 00:03:51,525 farther than normal, right? 100 00:03:51,525 --> 00:03:55,245 Because, you know, it's the aura ring, it's the smart scale, 101 00:03:55,315 --> 00:03:58,045 it's the blood blood pressure cuff, it's the nutrition app. 102 00:03:58,045 --> 00:03:59,725 And so I've got about a hundred data points 103 00:04:00,815 --> 00:04:03,685 every day about my health situations I've been collecting 104 00:04:03,705 --> 00:04:05,205 for a number of years now 105 00:04:05,475 --> 00:04:08,285 that really have informed my health journey in a very, 106 00:04:08,285 --> 00:04:10,285 very data-driven way that I can talk about, 107 00:04:10,585 --> 00:04:12,245 but I also can share with others 108 00:04:12,985 --> 00:04:16,005 and give them kind of perspectives of what happened, 109 00:04:16,145 --> 00:04:18,685 how do I know, um, in ways 110 00:04:18,715 --> 00:04:20,245 that people find very interesting. 111 00:04:22,145 --> 00:04:23,755 - That is definitely fascinating to hear. 112 00:04:23,855 --> 00:04:25,755 And certainly, you know, what a, 113 00:04:25,835 --> 00:04:28,475 a great opportunity you have to, um, collect all that data 114 00:04:28,475 --> 00:04:29,595 and that information and, 115 00:04:29,595 --> 00:04:32,235 and really see how it works together to, um, 116 00:04:32,245 --> 00:04:33,595 build the picture of your health 117 00:04:33,895 --> 00:04:35,915 and inform your decision making going forwards. 118 00:04:36,335 --> 00:04:38,555 So, you know, in thinking about everything 119 00:04:38,555 --> 00:04:40,555 that you take a look at every day and are measure 120 00:04:40,575 --> 00:04:43,435 and tracking, what are some of the specific trends 121 00:04:43,435 --> 00:04:45,595 that you're keeping your eye on right now and, and tracking? 122 00:04:46,145 --> 00:04:49,835 - Yeah, so there's having data and then there's using data 123 00:04:50,255 --> 00:04:52,275 and, and using data means, you know, 124 00:04:52,275 --> 00:04:54,395 am I making more informed decisions? 125 00:04:54,495 --> 00:04:57,715 And, you know, I'm a big fan of, uh, Peter Atia, you know, 126 00:04:57,815 --> 00:05:00,195 and, and you know, he recently put out a book talking about 127 00:05:00,455 --> 00:05:01,835 was book was called Outlive, 128 00:05:01,835 --> 00:05:03,515 and it's the Science and Art of Longevity. 129 00:05:03,715 --> 00:05:05,955 I, I was really a big fan of that book when it came out, 130 00:05:06,255 --> 00:05:08,355 you know, and he talks about the four horsemen and, 131 00:05:08,575 --> 00:05:10,875 and the horsemen are the four disease categories 132 00:05:10,875 --> 00:05:13,715 that usually kind of take away our health span, you know, 133 00:05:13,895 --> 00:05:17,195 uh, metabolic disease, cardiovascular disease, you know, uh, 134 00:05:17,335 --> 00:05:20,395 cancer and now neurodegenerative disease, 135 00:05:20,395 --> 00:05:21,475 you know, in that category. 136 00:05:21,535 --> 00:05:23,235 And so I really try to, you know, 137 00:05:23,235 --> 00:05:25,395 think about it from a risk management perspective in terms 138 00:05:25,395 --> 00:05:27,115 of, am I doing the things? 139 00:05:27,375 --> 00:05:29,875 Am I, the things that I'm tracking are kind of tied 140 00:05:29,895 --> 00:05:31,635 to keeping those things out, right? 141 00:05:31,695 --> 00:05:34,035 So food and nutrition, really making sure 142 00:05:34,035 --> 00:05:36,595 that from a metabolic health perspective, uh, 143 00:05:36,745 --> 00:05:38,675 I've got a pretty good view on what's going on. 144 00:05:38,675 --> 00:05:40,355 Cardiovascular, kind of, you know, 145 00:05:40,675 --> 00:05:41,755 exercise and those types of things. 146 00:05:41,935 --> 00:05:45,155 Neurogenerative disease, sleep, sleep is 147 00:05:45,175 --> 00:05:46,475 so important from the standpoint 148 00:05:46,475 --> 00:05:48,835 of giving your body a chance to clear out all those, 149 00:05:49,255 --> 00:05:51,715 you know, all those bad substances that are floating around 150 00:05:51,895 --> 00:05:53,035 and especially in the brain. 151 00:05:53,095 --> 00:05:55,915 And so, you know, I use kind of, you know, kind of these, 152 00:05:55,915 --> 00:05:58,285 these models, again, evidence-based models that 153 00:05:58,285 --> 00:05:59,525 that medical professionals come out. 154 00:05:59,525 --> 00:06:01,765 And I say, how can I incorporate that into way 155 00:06:01,765 --> 00:06:03,925 that I'm managing my personal health situation? 156 00:06:03,925 --> 00:06:05,365 And then how do I, can I collect data 157 00:06:05,465 --> 00:06:08,565 and look at that data over time to tell me, you know, 158 00:06:08,905 --> 00:06:10,005 are, are things changing? 159 00:06:10,095 --> 00:06:12,205 Right? Are things changing? 'cause as we, as we age, 160 00:06:12,385 --> 00:06:14,045 we start to see changes, 161 00:06:14,305 --> 00:06:17,125 but we can be surprised by them if we're not actually kind 162 00:06:17,125 --> 00:06:18,285 of monitoring them. 163 00:06:18,345 --> 00:06:21,445 And that's kind of how, you know, I've started then using, 164 00:06:21,745 --> 00:06:24,005 um, you know, kinda using the data myself 165 00:06:24,105 --> 00:06:27,245 and then also trying to use the, the, the medical, uh, 166 00:06:27,455 --> 00:06:30,125 profession to help inform my choices 167 00:06:30,185 --> 00:06:31,605 or the way that I think about problems. 168 00:06:32,085 --> 00:06:34,045 I, I, one of the jokes I like to tell people, 169 00:06:34,125 --> 00:06:36,205 I just like give people like, well, gimme an example Tom. 170 00:06:36,205 --> 00:06:37,725 It's like, well, you know, I am one 171 00:06:37,725 --> 00:06:39,245 of those annoying patients, you know, 172 00:06:39,265 --> 00:06:40,605 who might be sitting with their doctor. 173 00:06:40,705 --> 00:06:42,525 And the doctor says like, well, you know, you know, 174 00:06:42,525 --> 00:06:43,965 you should really worry about heart disease. 175 00:06:43,995 --> 00:06:45,565 It's like, how much red meat do you eat? 176 00:06:45,945 --> 00:06:47,645 You know, and the average patient will say it's like, oh, 177 00:06:47,645 --> 00:06:50,085 I don't know, maybe, you know, four or five times a month. 178 00:06:50,425 --> 00:06:51,885 And it's based on kind of, you know, 179 00:06:51,885 --> 00:06:54,005 recalling into your brain and thinking about it. 180 00:06:54,265 --> 00:06:55,485 You know, I'm the annoying patient 181 00:06:55,505 --> 00:06:56,565 who, who will say something. 182 00:06:56,565 --> 00:06:59,845 It's like, well, um, over the last two years, you know, 183 00:06:59,955 --> 00:07:00,965 I've averaged, you know, 184 00:07:00,965 --> 00:07:04,205 2.4 times per month eating red meat on an average 185 00:07:04,305 --> 00:07:06,045 of about three ounces per sitting. 186 00:07:06,985 --> 00:07:09,085 You know? And I'm like, I've got the data 187 00:07:09,145 --> 00:07:10,525 to back that number up. 188 00:07:10,695 --> 00:07:12,485 Right. You know, and it's kind of funny 189 00:07:12,715 --> 00:07:15,405 because for some people it's like way over the top. 190 00:07:15,625 --> 00:07:18,485 But for me it's just about being informed, uh, 191 00:07:18,485 --> 00:07:20,525 to make the best decisions that are right for me. 192 00:07:22,045 --> 00:07:23,135 - Well, that's fascinating. 193 00:07:23,155 --> 00:07:25,775 And, you know, truly, truly amazing that you can collect 194 00:07:25,775 --> 00:07:28,455 that information, as you said, have the data to back that up 195 00:07:28,595 --> 00:07:31,495 and really, um, be precise about what you're doing 196 00:07:31,495 --> 00:07:33,495 and what you're, um, you know, talking through 197 00:07:33,495 --> 00:07:35,175 with your clinicians, Laura, 198 00:07:35,235 --> 00:07:37,375 - On per, you know, that, that kind of precise, you know, 199 00:07:37,375 --> 00:07:38,655 sometimes people say it's like, Tom, 200 00:07:38,655 --> 00:07:40,175 I could never be that disciplined . 201 00:07:40,175 --> 00:07:42,215 And I, and I, and I said, well, what if I told you 202 00:07:42,215 --> 00:07:45,815 that you could kind of, you know, to the 90% level, 203 00:07:46,185 --> 00:07:49,135 track your day, track what you eat for Nutri. 204 00:07:49,215 --> 00:07:51,335 I I don't track food or calories. 205 00:07:51,455 --> 00:07:53,535 I, I I track for nutrition achievement. 206 00:07:53,795 --> 00:07:56,095 I'm like, what if I said you could do that in five 207 00:07:56,115 --> 00:07:57,535 to seven minutes per day? 208 00:07:57,685 --> 00:07:59,095 Does that sound like an overly 209 00:07:59,095 --> 00:08:00,615 disciplined thing to ask of you? 210 00:08:01,155 --> 00:08:03,055 And people are like, no, that doesn't sound bad at all. 211 00:08:03,115 --> 00:08:04,975 I'm like, well, that's really all it takes, right? 212 00:08:04,975 --> 00:08:06,775 It's little, it's little things. 213 00:08:06,845 --> 00:08:09,295 It's not, you know, we're not talking about something 214 00:08:09,295 --> 00:08:12,015 that is gonna change your entire lifestyle to be able to do. 215 00:08:12,355 --> 00:08:14,815 And I think that's the balance I've found, is it's 216 00:08:14,815 --> 00:08:18,775 so incorporated in that it's almost happening just as part 217 00:08:18,775 --> 00:08:21,975 of life rather than it looks like I'm doing something overly 218 00:08:21,975 --> 00:08:23,415 disciplined that's not sustainable. 219 00:08:24,675 --> 00:08:26,115 - Absolutely. That makes a ton of sense. 220 00:08:26,315 --> 00:08:28,475 You know, and certainly, um, is easy 221 00:08:28,475 --> 00:08:31,115 to devote just a few minutes a day to really, um, 222 00:08:31,555 --> 00:08:34,195 becoming more conscientious about how, uh, 223 00:08:34,245 --> 00:08:36,635 we're treating our bodies, what we're putting in, and, 224 00:08:36,655 --> 00:08:38,795 and how we really are looking at our health. 225 00:08:39,295 --> 00:08:41,675 And, you know, I, I understand that you're also working 226 00:08:41,675 --> 00:08:44,475 with some companies, um, along these lines. 227 00:08:44,585 --> 00:08:46,435 What are the companies that you're working with 228 00:08:46,495 --> 00:08:49,035 and how are they leaning into the consumer wellness market? 229 00:08:49,585 --> 00:08:51,915 - Yeah, certainly this market has gotten huge, right? 230 00:08:51,915 --> 00:08:53,395 Certainly the wearable movement 231 00:08:53,415 --> 00:08:55,555 and, you know, apple Watch and Fitbits. 232 00:08:55,555 --> 00:08:57,235 And so, you know, there are, there are millions 233 00:08:57,235 --> 00:08:59,155 of people now walking around with these, and, and, 234 00:08:59,175 --> 00:09:00,235 and some of those, you know, 235 00:09:00,235 --> 00:09:01,395 some of those things I work with. 236 00:09:01,695 --> 00:09:04,955 The other thing I'll say about kind of this space is not 237 00:09:04,955 --> 00:09:06,435 that I'm in this category, right? 238 00:09:06,435 --> 00:09:08,555 But if you had the money and you bought a Lamborghini, 239 00:09:08,555 --> 00:09:10,715 then all of a sudden you kind of find the other people 240 00:09:10,775 --> 00:09:12,435 who also own Lamborghinis, 241 00:09:12,435 --> 00:09:13,795 and you find these things in common. 242 00:09:13,855 --> 00:09:16,755 And so, you know, you find individuals who are kind 243 00:09:16,755 --> 00:09:17,795 of into this space. 244 00:09:18,175 --> 00:09:20,595 Um, you know, people like Larry Smar who used 245 00:09:20,595 --> 00:09:23,675 to be a professor at uc, San Diego, who might be the most, 246 00:09:23,975 --> 00:09:27,115 you know, the most measured, you know, individual in terms 247 00:09:27,135 --> 00:09:29,115 of some of the data that he has around himself. 248 00:09:29,415 --> 00:09:32,715 Uh, I think of Mike Snyder, who's at Stanford, you know, 249 00:09:32,765 --> 00:09:34,315 who's done research on this, 250 00:09:34,315 --> 00:09:36,875 but is also kind of a personal, uh, you know, 251 00:09:37,075 --> 00:09:38,555 personal health and personal measurement person. 252 00:09:39,015 --> 00:09:40,915 But some of the companies that, you know, worked with, 253 00:09:40,915 --> 00:09:43,235 you know, kind of beyond kind of the device companies. 254 00:09:43,455 --> 00:09:44,995 Um, and, you know, thinking about Apple, 255 00:09:45,015 --> 00:09:46,835 and you've got the Apple, apple Health app is, 256 00:09:47,055 --> 00:09:48,075 you know, this is a great one. 257 00:09:48,075 --> 00:09:49,315 It's called Measured Wellness. 258 00:09:49,455 --> 00:09:51,115 And it's a very, very early stage company. 259 00:09:51,255 --> 00:09:54,075 But think of it as, you know, um, a, 260 00:09:54,235 --> 00:09:57,475 a data science consultation around your data in the same way 261 00:09:57,475 --> 00:10:00,315 that your medical image is sent to a radiologist 262 00:10:00,495 --> 00:10:01,875 for a read and a report. 263 00:10:02,175 --> 00:10:05,755 So think about your wearable data going to a specialist, 264 00:10:05,915 --> 00:10:08,275 a combination of medical profession 265 00:10:08,295 --> 00:10:12,835 and data scientist, uh, service that basically says, 266 00:10:13,225 --> 00:10:15,715 well, you know, you know, looking at your data over time, 267 00:10:15,785 --> 00:10:17,235 your cardiovascular patient, 268 00:10:17,515 --> 00:10:19,355 'cause they might be working with the patient directly 269 00:10:19,375 --> 00:10:22,075 or they might be working with the primary care physician 270 00:10:22,075 --> 00:10:23,915 who ordered the quote unquote consultation. 271 00:10:24,385 --> 00:10:25,515 It's like, you know, here's some things 272 00:10:25,515 --> 00:10:26,795 that we see in their data 273 00:10:26,905 --> 00:10:29,555 that might be valuable when you kind of sit down with them 274 00:10:29,575 --> 00:10:31,795 and help them manage their cardiovascular state. 275 00:10:32,615 --> 00:10:35,515 Um, also, you know, uh, the, the doctors 276 00:10:35,585 --> 00:10:38,555 that measure wellness also work directly 277 00:10:38,555 --> 00:10:40,435 with patients in a primary care fashion 278 00:10:40,615 --> 00:10:43,755 and use that data as a conversation piece 279 00:10:43,975 --> 00:10:47,915 to change the nature of the doctor patient discussion. 280 00:10:48,435 --> 00:10:50,635 'cause you're now just not just talking about generalities 281 00:10:50,775 --> 00:10:53,155 or what do you recall, but you're saying, look, we, 282 00:10:53,155 --> 00:10:55,675 you know, we've been looking at your data over the last six 283 00:10:55,675 --> 00:10:59,275 months, you know, there are things going on in your life. 284 00:10:59,555 --> 00:11:02,155 'cause your, your, your quote unquote, your stress levels 285 00:11:02,155 --> 00:11:05,275 and your resiliency factors look 286 00:11:05,415 --> 00:11:07,315 to have changed over the last six months. 287 00:11:07,455 --> 00:11:09,035 Is there something that we should talk about? 288 00:11:09,655 --> 00:11:11,715 And so, measured Wellness is one of those companies. 289 00:11:11,855 --> 00:11:14,835 Um, uh, there's a company called Engage Three I work 290 00:11:14,835 --> 00:11:16,275 with in, in a new initiative. 291 00:11:16,275 --> 00:11:19,235 It's kind of a spinoff of their core business, uh, working 292 00:11:19,235 --> 00:11:21,115 with retailers called Project Health, 293 00:11:21,485 --> 00:11:24,595 where they've had a very successful business working 294 00:11:24,595 --> 00:11:27,435 with retailers, really driving price optimization 295 00:11:27,455 --> 00:11:29,995 to help retailers to price their products, 296 00:11:30,815 --> 00:11:34,995 to optimize the balance between price, margin, and volume. 297 00:11:35,045 --> 00:11:37,155 Right? Because, you know, when you're a retailer like a 298 00:11:37,155 --> 00:11:39,355 grocer, it's all about volume of, of churn 299 00:11:39,375 --> 00:11:42,515 and how much revenue you get for a shelf space. 300 00:11:43,015 --> 00:11:44,995 But now they're saying, look, we could take this model, 301 00:11:45,095 --> 00:11:48,435 we could apply it to help people make better food choices. 302 00:11:49,135 --> 00:11:51,355 And if you think about what, you know, the Walmarts 303 00:11:51,355 --> 00:11:54,565 of the world and the CVSs of the world are doing in terms 304 00:11:54,565 --> 00:11:57,405 of, you know, generating a a, a place 305 00:11:57,415 --> 00:12:01,685 where the health consumer is gonna interact, you know, 306 00:12:01,685 --> 00:12:04,525 and that concept of you, you know, prime, uh, 307 00:12:04,555 --> 00:12:06,645 Walmart's become your primary care physician 308 00:12:07,265 --> 00:12:09,085 and they might write your prescription, 309 00:12:09,145 --> 00:12:13,245 but they also might be able to point you towards food 310 00:12:13,245 --> 00:12:14,285 that's in that store 311 00:12:14,315 --> 00:12:18,005 that quote unquote might be the equivalent healthy decisions 312 00:12:18,065 --> 00:12:20,765 to manage, let's say high blood pressure. 313 00:12:21,395 --> 00:12:24,445 This type of optimization engine could become very valuable 314 00:12:24,465 --> 00:12:27,845 to quote unquote manage the, the incentives associated 315 00:12:27,845 --> 00:12:31,965 with getting, um, patients to make better decisions 316 00:12:31,965 --> 00:12:33,245 for themselves through food, 317 00:12:33,495 --> 00:12:35,205 which they're gonna go by anyway. 318 00:12:35,985 --> 00:12:38,645 Um, and then I've got a couple of research teams that, 319 00:12:38,645 --> 00:12:39,845 you know, are working on things 320 00:12:39,845 --> 00:12:43,725 that might become spin out opportunities, uh, you know, 321 00:12:43,785 --> 00:12:45,565 in things like personal health navigators 322 00:12:45,565 --> 00:12:48,765 that really look at personalization and proactive care 323 00:12:48,865 --> 00:12:51,365 and pulling your data together, allowing you 324 00:12:51,365 --> 00:12:54,645 to put multimodal data together, right? 325 00:12:54,645 --> 00:12:56,565 Because it's, you know, you've got waveforms, 326 00:12:56,565 --> 00:12:58,045 you've got alphanumeric data, 327 00:12:58,185 --> 00:13:02,165 you might have medical imaging, uh, lab test results. 328 00:13:02,225 --> 00:13:05,445 And so, you know, how do you start to get that data together 329 00:13:05,505 --> 00:13:07,925 and find insights across different data types 330 00:13:07,955 --> 00:13:10,565 through different types of, uh, AI techniques? 331 00:13:11,675 --> 00:13:13,935 And then, you know, this company's also, these, 332 00:13:14,005 --> 00:13:15,975 this team is also now pivoting with kind 333 00:13:15,975 --> 00:13:17,135 of generative AI tools 334 00:13:17,155 --> 00:13:19,415 and the concept of health agents, right? 335 00:13:19,415 --> 00:13:21,655 So you may have read some things recently about people 336 00:13:21,655 --> 00:13:23,815 talking about, you know, generative AI 337 00:13:23,875 --> 00:13:26,975 and evolving to agents, so, you know, not just 338 00:13:27,505 --> 00:13:28,575 generating content, 339 00:13:28,875 --> 00:13:33,205 but actually helping in decision making, 340 00:13:33,755 --> 00:13:35,885 task completion and those types of things. 341 00:13:35,985 --> 00:13:40,045 And so, uh, uh, open CHA, uh, which stands 342 00:13:40,045 --> 00:13:43,525 for Conversational Health Agents is a personalized l large 343 00:13:43,805 --> 00:13:46,525 language model, um, age, uh, agent platform 344 00:13:46,775 --> 00:13:48,805 where it's not just how you're having a conversation 345 00:13:49,395 --> 00:13:52,085 with you about your data and the right decisions, 346 00:13:52,185 --> 00:13:55,005 but it's also looking to connect you to the right resources. 347 00:13:55,145 --> 00:13:58,045 And, you know, today as an example, 348 00:13:58,805 --> 00:14:00,965 I look at my nutrition achievement maybe 349 00:14:00,965 --> 00:14:04,325 before I go to dinner, and it might inform what I plan 350 00:14:04,345 --> 00:14:07,285 to eat if I'm, my wife and I are eating out that night, 351 00:14:07,745 --> 00:14:10,605 but what if the agent were to actually be, 352 00:14:11,195 --> 00:14:12,845 here are the best places for you 353 00:14:12,845 --> 00:14:15,165 to eat given the nutritional achievement 354 00:14:15,315 --> 00:14:16,925 that you still haven't gotten today. 355 00:14:17,625 --> 00:14:20,285 And so it's kind of, you know, given me the recommendation 356 00:14:20,345 --> 00:14:23,405 and someday might even make that, you know, if I click yes, 357 00:14:23,405 --> 00:14:25,565 makes that, uh, you know, that reservation for us. 358 00:14:26,385 --> 00:14:29,165 So, you know, there's lots of things in this new world 359 00:14:29,185 --> 00:14:31,405 that's gonna be powered through ai. 360 00:14:31,635 --> 00:14:34,125 It's not just gonna be about analyzing data, 361 00:14:34,305 --> 00:14:37,645 but it's gonna be about connecting what comes out of that, 362 00:14:37,815 --> 00:14:41,565 those insights and helping you take the next step 363 00:14:41,625 --> 00:14:42,885 or get to the right step. 364 00:14:43,425 --> 00:14:45,285 And so these companies I think are very exciting. 365 00:14:45,285 --> 00:14:46,685 They're very early stage, 366 00:14:46,785 --> 00:14:48,805 but I think these are the types of companies 367 00:14:48,805 --> 00:14:50,685 that you're gonna read about, you know, 368 00:14:50,865 --> 00:14:54,565 1, 2, 3 years from now that are going to impact the, 369 00:14:54,745 --> 00:14:58,965 the healthcare, uh, um, the healthcare space. 370 00:15:01,995 --> 00:15:03,005 - Well, that's great to hear 371 00:15:03,025 --> 00:15:04,445 and just fascinating to see 372 00:15:04,445 --> 00:15:07,445 how quickly these things are evolving in, you know, uh, 373 00:15:07,445 --> 00:15:09,725 just really as you were talking through the different ways 374 00:15:09,725 --> 00:15:13,285 that AI is playing a part in this, the different, um, 375 00:15:13,285 --> 00:15:15,045 opportunities to really connect people 376 00:15:15,045 --> 00:15:16,245 with the right resources 377 00:15:16,425 --> 00:15:19,605 and, um, develop a deeper understanding 378 00:15:19,745 --> 00:15:20,965 is, is really so cool. 379 00:15:21,335 --> 00:15:22,925 Where do you see some of the big opportunities 380 00:15:22,985 --> 00:15:25,045 for physicians and health systems to use this data 381 00:15:25,185 --> 00:15:27,685 for more targeted wellness plans as well? Yeah, 382 00:15:27,765 --> 00:15:29,685 - I, I, I think this movement, uh, 383 00:15:30,105 --> 00:15:31,965 really provides an opportunity, 384 00:15:31,985 --> 00:15:34,085 and I've learned this from, uh, Dr. 385 00:15:34,115 --> 00:15:37,645 Mike car, uh, Carrizo, who, you know, who's the CEO 386 00:15:37,665 --> 00:15:39,445 and really founder of, of measured wellness. 387 00:15:40,065 --> 00:15:42,725 It provides this opportunity to really change the nature 388 00:15:42,785 --> 00:15:45,045 of the conversation between the patient and, and the, 389 00:15:45,045 --> 00:15:46,405 and the medical professional. 390 00:15:46,465 --> 00:15:47,565 Let, let, let's, in this case, 391 00:15:47,565 --> 00:15:49,085 let's just call it the doctor, your primary 392 00:15:49,085 --> 00:15:50,285 care physician, right? 393 00:15:50,285 --> 00:15:53,285 Because, uh, instead of this kind of searching to try 394 00:15:53,285 --> 00:15:54,765 to find the right question, find the right answer, 395 00:15:54,765 --> 00:15:57,045 you're now talking, you're looking at an evidence based 396 00:15:57,045 --> 00:15:59,885 through data, and you can actually target the conversations 397 00:15:59,905 --> 00:16:01,845 and have a different type of conversation. 398 00:16:02,545 --> 00:16:03,725 You know, I've always said, 399 00:16:03,725 --> 00:16:05,685 or at least I've been on this journey, you know, I, 400 00:16:05,715 --> 00:16:08,005 I've started to think about, it's like, you know, um, 401 00:16:08,645 --> 00:16:12,645 I have a, um, a financial person who I talk 402 00:16:12,645 --> 00:16:15,925 through my long-term financial goals for have 403 00:16:15,985 --> 00:16:18,645 for my adult life, whether it's what, you know, they have 404 00:16:18,645 --> 00:16:20,565 for my family to send my kids to college, 405 00:16:21,185 --> 00:16:23,445 why isn't my primary care physician 406 00:16:23,555 --> 00:16:24,965 interaction similar to that? 407 00:16:25,925 --> 00:16:27,245 I want to be a healthy person. 408 00:16:27,605 --> 00:16:29,125 I wanna live into my later years 409 00:16:29,145 --> 00:16:31,525 and to be able to do the things that I wanna do 410 00:16:32,105 --> 00:16:34,325 to climb a flight of stairs, to be able 411 00:16:34,325 --> 00:16:36,685 to go on a five mile hike to run around 412 00:16:36,685 --> 00:16:38,645 with my grandkids someday, right? 413 00:16:38,745 --> 00:16:41,445 Why is my conversation about not about what are the things 414 00:16:41,445 --> 00:16:42,645 that I need to do? 415 00:16:42,785 --> 00:16:46,085 Why is it not a consultation rather than this kind 416 00:16:46,085 --> 00:16:47,645 of just kind of back 417 00:16:47,645 --> 00:16:49,685 and forth where I don't really feel a lot 418 00:16:49,685 --> 00:16:51,645 of value other than it's been a touch point 419 00:16:51,645 --> 00:16:52,685 that happens once a year. 420 00:16:53,145 --> 00:16:54,965 Why can't it be a different conversation? 421 00:16:55,105 --> 00:16:57,045 Why can't it be an ongoing conversation 422 00:16:57,095 --> 00:16:59,405 where technology is touching base 423 00:16:59,405 --> 00:17:00,645 with me on a very regular basis, 424 00:17:01,045 --> 00:17:02,285 nudging me in the right direction? 425 00:17:02,985 --> 00:17:06,085 And then, you know, the, the, the conversation 426 00:17:06,085 --> 00:17:08,485 that we have once a year is a much more informed 427 00:17:08,485 --> 00:17:10,965 conversation about, I can see the decisions 428 00:17:10,965 --> 00:17:15,125 that you're making for the other 6,364 days of your life, 429 00:17:15,305 --> 00:17:16,805 and I think you need to really think about 430 00:17:16,805 --> 00:17:18,085 some additional changes here. 431 00:17:18,225 --> 00:17:19,485 You gotta get up from that chair 432 00:17:19,485 --> 00:17:21,045 and out from that computer more. 433 00:17:21,465 --> 00:17:24,885 Why don't you take more zoom calls via walks, right? 434 00:17:24,945 --> 00:17:27,085 Why are we not talking about those things through data? 435 00:17:27,345 --> 00:17:29,525 And so I think the doctor patient, um, 436 00:17:29,565 --> 00:17:33,925 conversation has an opportunity to really deepen a change 437 00:17:34,105 --> 00:17:36,405 and deepen, uh, through what we see coming 438 00:17:36,405 --> 00:17:37,645 through technology and data. 439 00:17:40,735 --> 00:17:42,585 - That definitely makes a lot of sense, you know, 440 00:17:42,685 --> 00:17:45,265 and certainly is a reality that you can imagine in terms 441 00:17:45,265 --> 00:17:48,385 of having those, um, really intelligent conversations, 442 00:17:48,455 --> 00:17:51,125 data-driven, um, talking points and, 443 00:17:51,305 --> 00:17:53,725 and really action items that you can take back. 444 00:17:53,825 --> 00:17:56,405 And patients really are able to then be empowered 445 00:17:56,425 --> 00:17:58,405 to stay healthy and live healthier lives. 446 00:17:59,025 --> 00:18:01,085 How do you see this work evolving over the next 447 00:18:01,105 --> 00:18:02,125 two to three years or so? 448 00:18:02,945 --> 00:18:05,355 - Yeah, I, I, I think like we're seeing in a lot 449 00:18:05,355 --> 00:18:09,155 of ways in our society right now through this, you know, 450 00:18:09,635 --> 00:18:13,555 phenomenon of ai, I think it's gonna move very fast, right? 451 00:18:13,595 --> 00:18:16,355 I mean, I think we're gonna see new types of services 452 00:18:16,815 --> 00:18:21,315 and touch points become available to us, uh, you know, 453 00:18:21,315 --> 00:18:22,795 at rapid paces, uh, 454 00:18:22,795 --> 00:18:24,835 faster than we bought, probably able to consume it. 455 00:18:25,575 --> 00:18:27,355 Um, you know, one of the, you know, one 456 00:18:27,355 --> 00:18:29,075 of my mentors once taught me it's like, look, 457 00:18:29,075 --> 00:18:30,155 the future's already here. 458 00:18:30,625 --> 00:18:32,475 It's just unevenly distributed. 459 00:18:32,775 --> 00:18:34,955 He used to say, and I think that's exactly 460 00:18:34,955 --> 00:18:36,435 what we're seeing now, is that, you know, 461 00:18:36,435 --> 00:18:37,955 these advances are happening very fast. 462 00:18:37,955 --> 00:18:40,875 They're becoming available certain, you know, uh, 463 00:18:41,145 --> 00:18:43,915 certain people who, you know, you know, who can, 464 00:18:44,025 --> 00:18:46,195 like myself, I get a chance to kind of follow the space. 465 00:18:46,215 --> 00:18:48,915 So I see things earlier than let's say the, you know, the, 466 00:18:49,015 --> 00:18:50,755 you know, the large population does. 467 00:18:51,255 --> 00:18:53,115 So I think we're gonna see these things, um, 468 00:18:54,225 --> 00:18:55,315 come about very fast. 469 00:18:55,555 --> 00:18:56,715 I think the adoption of them 470 00:18:56,895 --> 00:18:59,435 and then the equity around the adoption of them is the thing 471 00:18:59,435 --> 00:19:00,675 that we really need to come back 472 00:19:00,675 --> 00:19:04,595 and think, uh, think, uh, um, broadly about, 473 00:19:04,945 --> 00:19:08,115 because, you know, these things also are advances 474 00:19:08,115 --> 00:19:09,555 and they, they benefit people, 475 00:19:09,695 --> 00:19:13,395 but if they benefit only small parts of the population, 476 00:19:13,575 --> 00:19:17,475 or let's say, um, pa parts of the population who, um, 477 00:19:17,935 --> 00:19:19,995 who are more privileged, it doesn't 478 00:19:20,545 --> 00:19:23,435 address the larger challenges that we have 479 00:19:23,495 --> 00:19:24,755 as a society, right? 480 00:19:24,855 --> 00:19:27,035 So I think we're gonna see fast evolution. 481 00:19:27,515 --> 00:19:30,195 I think the focus point needs to, how do we bring this to 482 00:19:30,845 --> 00:19:32,835 large percentages of our population, 483 00:19:33,015 --> 00:19:36,795 or as is becoming more popular, how do we bring AI to all 484 00:19:37,295 --> 00:19:38,795 and not just a select few? 485 00:19:38,935 --> 00:19:41,835 So that's my hope for the next two to three years. 486 00:19:43,535 --> 00:19:44,555 - That's amazing to hear. 487 00:19:44,615 --> 00:19:47,075 And, and certainly, you know, so important to keep those, 488 00:19:47,175 --> 00:19:48,275 uh, gaps in mind. 489 00:19:48,815 --> 00:19:51,115 Tom, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. 490 00:19:51,115 --> 00:19:52,995 This has been a fascinating discussion. 491 00:19:53,055 --> 00:19:54,635 It really, you know, cutting edge things 492 00:19:54,635 --> 00:19:57,155 that we're talking about today that are a reality 493 00:19:57,375 --> 00:20:00,235 and continue, will continue to grow and develop and evolve. 494 00:20:00,635 --> 00:20:01,715 I appreciate your time here 495 00:20:01,715 --> 00:20:04,075 and look forward to connecting with you again very soon, 496 00:20:04,645 --> 00:20:05,645 - Laura. 497 00:20:05,645 --> 00:20:05,835 Thanks for having me.