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- Welcome to the Becker's Healthcare Podcast, made
for the people who power US healthcare.
I'm Molly Gamble with Becker's,
and today I am sitting down with Kevin Uric, CIO
of University of Mississippi Medical Center
to learn more about his role
and his top priorities as of late.
Kevin, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks so much for being my guest. How are you today?
And where does the podcast find you?
- Hey, Molly. Life is good.
I'm in Jackson, Mississippi today,
and the spring has sprung down here.
My kids are finishing up spring break
and looking forward to summer break. So all is well.
- That's great. You know, and,
and looking up University of Mississippi Medical Center,
Kevin, I was doing some more research
and I didn't realize Jackson Mississippi is on a volcano.
- Yeah, I didn't either until you just told me that.
No, actually I heard about
that about three or four years ago.
It's wild, isn't it? ?
I think our cols, our cosm was
actually built right on top of it. How wild is that?
- ? I was hoping your response.
I was hoping I got the right Jack
and you had me nervous for a
second , so, okay, .
Um, well, you know what, for, for listeners
who might be less familiar with the University
of Mississippi Medical Center, can,
can you share a few key facts about the hospital
and the organization just
to help us better reacquaint ourselves?
- You bet. We're in Jackson, we're about two
and a half hours, um, south of Ole Miss, which is in Oxford,
but Ole Miss is our mothership.
We are the only, uh, academic medical center in the state.
We are the only level one trauma center in the state,
and we have the only children's hospital in the state.
So it's, um, quite, quite a lot of onlys here for us.
And from a volume perspective,
we have about a million ambulatory visits a year
and about 285,000 inpatient days.
- So the, the, the one and only in a number of ways, as
as you just helped us understand as CIO of such the,
the state's sole academic medical center,
sole level one trauma center.
Kevin, do you feel a heightened sense of responsibility to,
to pioneer specific tech innovations
to the benefit of the state?
I I'm curious how your work might be accentuated being the
only in, in a number of ways, like you just said.
- Yeah, I, I, that is,
that's a convicting question, isn't it?
? Oh, you're the only and what are you doing?
Our, um, it's cool
because I think our leadership, um, here at UMMC, uh,
talks all the time about making a healthier Mississippi.
And so whether it's an internal message
or an external message, we're constantly reminding ourselves
about making it healthier here in Mississippi.
And, um, so our researcher, look, our researchers are kind
of looking for an edge all the time.
Our clinicians are sort of just wanting things to be easier
with fewer touchpoints,
and typically our administrators just want
to cut out expenses and maximize payments.
And so I feel like, you know,
I'm constantly battling this promise of some new technology
that's gonna fill out one of the things
that I've just mentioned that's normally in the hype cycle.
You know, it's in the news and,
and so I'm, I'm getting an email
or a text about it here or there.
And, and then what do I do?
You know, when we have razor thin margins here as one
of the poor states in the union, how do I pick,
how do I select and what should I do?
And, and there is that, that idea of, okay, well if,
if UMMC is not gonna do it, that kind of leads the way
for the rest of the state and, uh, healthcare in the state.
And so that is something that does
convict me on a regular basis.
And I would say where I land on this is sort of just,
you know, maximizing the potential
of the solutions that we've already purchased.
We've invested in an awesome EMR and an awesome ERP.
Can we utilize those bad boys to make the, make it better
for our clinicians or for our administrators?
And then, you know, thinking about like something specific,
how do we do things to make it healthier in Mississippi?
And, and some of what we're we're finding out is
if we can't keep our clinicians happy and they're,
and they're constantly, um, thinking about being burned out,
it takes away from that patient experience.
And so I would say one of the things
that we really are trying to do is,
whether it's on the nursing side
or on the physician side, how are we making it
so nurses are at the bedside more doing the things
that they like to do for the patients
and physicians are actually interacting with the patients,
uh, the patients and not doing quite
as much administrative overhead.
And so, so that's, those are some of the initiatives I'd say
that I, that, that we're taking, um, a bigger
and we're doing more towards those.
- Mm-Hmm, . Kevin, do you know what
UMCs operating margin is as of late?
- It is thin. I think it's like one, one
to 3%, something along those lines. Okay.
- I mean, that's sensitivity the hype cycle.
I I understand what you mean.
What have you been seeing the hype cycle
around tool solutions tech?
Is there something that you feel like is really being
hammered home a lot that,
and maybe you're craving some other solutions
or your needs look a little different than
what the hype cycle is spitting out at you?
- Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one that's been speaking
of, you know, ai, but I I do feel like it's hit differently
today than a lot of the other, you know, the cloud and data
and all these things that we've, we've heard of in the past.
I feel like AI is, is here to stay and,
and generative AI specifically is one of those things
that the e our EMR is even looking at this and, and,
and taking it serious and they're developing.
I was chatting with someone from them,
from their company recently,
and they're like, we've never seen our company kind
of develop as fast as we are in this space.
And so, um, we are doing, um, we're, we are,
we're looking at something that we're looking at right now
for our physicians is this, um,
ambient listening for our providers.
So you, you have an app on your phone, you set it up,
you make sure the patients are aware and you start recording
and you, you know, have a normal interaction
with the patient and the app itself
and the AI in inside the app knows enough
to take away the ball game results
or the spring break trip that they took
and only inputs into the medical record
and just the discrete fields, um,
that which is relevant for them.
And that enables the physician to no longer have
to be typing in the medical record the entire time.
And that's, you know, gosh, this has been around
for a little bit, but the, the, um,
the major players in this space, that's come a long way.
And that's, to me, one
of the most promising things from our physician perspective.
- We'll talk a little bit more, Kevin, about some
of the initiatives or areas of your work lately
that are commanding most of your attention, your energy,
what are you putting the most into as of late?
- Yeah, that's it, that's another great question.
We, we have an awesome telehealth group here,
and our telehealth group has been working
with another company that is, um, I think they,
they would tout themselves as ai.
And um, what they're doing is they've got a video solution
that has AI built in
with some algorithms that are localized.
So it, it uses our patient demographics
and some of the things associated with
that patient through our EMR.
And they, through video, they are able
to predict if a patient's gonna fall out of bed
or get out of bed, I guess I should say.
Or if the patient hasn't been moved in a while,
they're using video and they're alerting the nurses
and the clinicians, um, Hey, be, be aware of this.
This person may have something that is, you know,
looking like they need to be rolled over
so that you don't get the bed source.
These are things that we have had predictive models
for a long time for our nurses,
but when you actually have a, a video and an
and a an audio alert that's gonna tell you when
that's gonna happen, it to us,
that seems like it's something that will really reduce all
of those, um, the, the indicators for that and,
and we're excited about that.
One of the other things that, that,
that may sound, I mean, that's cool.
I actually think that that's one of the things
that's revolutionary and could change the way that we do.
And this, and the, you know, the, uh,
from a clinical quality perspective, how great will that be?
It could also help with hand washing.
If you're just walk walking by, um, the room and they,
and the video captures you actually foaming
and foaming out, then you don't have to have these
witnesses across the, uh, hospital system that are,
you know, sort of spying on you.
I think that's really cool too. Same technology.
One, um, one additional thing that,
that I think is we constantly are talking about security
and, uh, I am reminded,
and I almost get a little bit of a chuckle now,
but we are seeing more
and more, um, events where a normal email
or a normal SMS message, you know, that comes through
that can't be blocked
because it's just coming from your typical mail provider.
But all it says is, Hey, I'm busy.
I can't talk on the phone. Can you reach, can you,
can you reply to me to me
and, um, I've got some actions for you.
And it gives the name of who it is
and, you know, typically it's a very important person.
And so naturally someone will just reply to that email,
and ultimately what's happening is gift cards are being
created for all of these bad guys out, um, out in the world,
and our folks are getting duped.
And there's really no technology way for us to solve
that other than just education.
But we're seeing that happen over and over and over.
And so I'm reminded on a regular basis that, um,
we can put in the most sophisticated tools
and techniques that that will,
you know, stop some of the bad guys.
But really what's happening is just a simple SMS message
from your air quotes boss that from a, from a number
that you don't recognize is what's actually getting
through and hurting us. Right?
- Right. I am, you know, not
that long ago was emails looked like, you know,
I'm a I'm a prince, or I'm a king
from this country. Do you remember those
- ?
Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course.
- I mean, they've gotten a lot more, to your point, a lot,
uh, more subtle and and tougher to detect.
And the nature of a lot
of these ransomware incidents too has just gotten in some
ways so much more cruel.
Like it feels more personal in some ways. Mm-Hmm.
, whether it's attackers revealing hospital
employee information or photos of patients, it feels like
it's really become like an intimate act where in
what time there was a level of anonymity to it
where it didn't feel as, as personal.
- Yeah, you're right. And for, you know, for those
that get duped, there's an embarrassment component to it.
And there's, you know, from the company perspective,
what do they do if everybody's getting duped?
Are we supposed to refund, you know, everybody?
And so it becomes challenging
because that personal aspect is nobody wants to feel shame.
You know, we talk about leadership all the time about the,
the, the, that concept of shame
and how damaging it could be.
And yet what are, you know, how do we, how do we remedy
that when, when the reality is we've been
duped, you know? Mm-Hmm.
- . Mm-Hmm. - one other thing
as it as it relates to security,
and I, you know, this is somewhat of a boring topic,
but I have had my eyes opened recently about
this, you know, change healthcare.
I don't know how familiar you are with that,
but you know, they have had to take themselves offline
for a significant number of their services.
And while we're not intimately partners with them,
and so I wouldn't even say that we have had, you know,
material impacts to it, um, where I do get
to listen into some of the calls that they're having
and the amount of,
of impact across the United States from them.
Um, having some difficulties is a challenge.
And the arch, you know, the arch technical architecture
of our healthcare system, they're, they're,
they're vital, it seems like.
And so not thinking through, you know, some of these things
that we think about from a DR perspective
or business continuity, I would not have factored them in
to, you know, something that's happening to the, to us.
'cause we don't really use them all that often,
and yet they are impacting.
And so these are eye-opening things that we need
to make sure, and I think the government is, is, you know,
gonna be helping out with figuring out what is vital
and how do we get our, how do we make sure that we have, uh,
proper controls in place or,
or alternative methods to do the things that these, these
critical components are, um, you know,
that are impacted. Mm-Hmm.
- , did it feel a little bit like there's some
checkers being played and then in other ways the attackers
or nation states or who are these groups are playing chess?
- You got it. You got it. Yeah.
It's, it's, um, what is that?
The, the, the old adage, you know, you're only as strong
as your weakest link and the reality is that, you know, the,
the bad guys are, are able
to better a attack your weakest link
far more than we thought they could. Mm-Hmm.
- , you know, Kevin, going back
to your point too about telehealth and working with AI
and the ability for video to predict if patients may fall,
for instance, how, what, what types of brick
and mortar changes come up when those projects are pursued?
Because I'm, you know, there's the
obvious, the camera installation.
I'm, I, that seems like relatively simple,
but are you having to adjust brick, brick
and mortar strategy or expansion plans at all around
what you're able to do now with this technology?
- Yeah, that's a, that's a great question.
And, and it it draws me to, you know,
what do we do in the actual room
that we're gonna put this in?
Because it, there is an infrastructure cost.
You've got cabling
and you've gotta make sure
that from a a network perspective, you can handle it,
but you also have the TV component.
And I think a lot of like, where,
where these vendors are going, um, they are fully aware
that most organizations are doing patient care on the
television that exists in the room.
And so they're adapting and being
able to use that infrastructure.
I think that's amazing. The, you know, what else do we need
to have in order to make this a, um, um, a product
that's use useful?
I, I think setting up cameras in rooms maybe seemed scary
for organizations a while ago,
but it almost seems like it's, it's, it's a, it's gonna have
to be something of the future if you're gonna be able to,
um, attack some of these quality problems.
And so maybe, maybe if, if, if I'm answering your question,
um, or interpreting your question the right way,
I just think it's not that hard for us to put cameras in.
Um, but there could be some, uh,
underlying infrastructure issues that you'll want to,
you want to address and, and we're having to do that too.
And you know, the alternative is to just wa
to roll in a cart.
There are, uh, solutions that are, you know, cart based,
but that doesn't, it, it, it almost seems like it,
the harder you make it for the clinician to order
and then roll in, the harder to the,
the less likely it is that they're gonna use it. Mm-Hmm.
- . Well, Kevin, we've covered a lot in the
time you've already spent together today.
Are there any closing thoughts for our listeners
or message you'd like to leave them with as we wind down?
- Yeah, I, um, I was meeting with a group
of physicians just this, this week actually.
And, um, amazing interaction, just, they were
that I was chatting with them
to pick their brains on a few things,
but also they were, they wanted me in the room
to give my perspective on where the world is heading and,
and you know, what we're doing at the U for technology
and how we can make their lives easier.
All that's great. We have those interactions on,
on the regular, but I was struck by just
how smart they are on technology today
and how, um, many of them, if you recall,
15 years ago when we were all doing our EMR implementations
and you had a few physician champions,
but you just, you didn't get a lot of buy-in
and it was really hard for you to do workflow changes
because not everybody wanted to do things differently.
And I was struck by, you know, everybody's adopted this now
and it's just part of their daily life
and they've accepted it,
and now more than ever, they are aware
of technology in the world
and they're aware of things
that would make their life easier,
much more than you are aware of it,
or at least I am, I shouldn't speak for everyone.
And so it is, it is cool
because we're farther along than we were 15 years ago,
and at the same time, it's hard
because they now have more intel than we do in some cases.
I think as it relates to, um, to ai,
AI is the biggest buzzword nowadays,
but I think it's going to be massive for us.
Um, as it relates to that, I got a kick out of it
because they're, they're concerned about the same things
that we're concerned about.
They don't want their jobs to be taken.
They don't believe that, you know,
the critical thinking component
of AI is going to replace them.
And yet they were told that three
or four years ago, they worked alongside the AI components,
you know, radiology and some of these specialties,
and they were chuckling
and they're like, I was so afraid of this before,
and now I laugh because it's not gonna replace us
right now in the current state.
My goodness. They would be done without us if we didn't have
our, you know, our brains working with, um,
the visual components of this.
And I got a, I got a a kick out of that too, in that many
of the same feelings
that we have about someone taking our job
or something, taking our job
or the cloud or all these types of things.
And the reason that we don't get adopt adoption,
many times when we do it, it's like,
oh yeah, that's complimentary.
That's not actually gonna, that's not gonna hurt us.
So I just wanted to give that as a little anecdote to it.
It does seem as though most folks are way better off than
they were from a technical perspective 10,
15 years ago, obviously.
Right. But it's helpful for us in the IT world to interact,
um, with the business and to see that
and to recognize that, my goodness, if we don't take them,
um, if they don't, we, if we don't listen to their advice,
then we're gonna be falling behind ourselves.
- Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm, ,
I remember not around the same timeframe you're talking
about 10, 15 years ago.
I remember there were these stories
and about rolling out new tech in organizations
and change management around that.
And one of the biggest action items
or recommendations was always find your physician champion,
sometimes singular Kevin. Yeah. So I think,
- Yeah, yeah, - Your point.
I mean, that's a whole class of employees
and people now in organizations,
you know, it's not one person.
These people, their technology
and their literacy around it has leveled up in so many ways.
Um, so I think to just point that out, it, it's kind
of an observation that it's very real,
but it doesn't always go noticed.
So, so thank you for ending with that note.
- You bet. You bet.
- Well, this has been Kevin Ric, CIO of University
of Mississippi Medical Center, the state's only a MC
with more than 800 beds.
Kevin, thank you so much for visiting with me,
catching me up on your work as of late.
I hope we can do so again soon.
- Sounds good, Molly. Thanks a lot.