1 00:00:00,235 --> 00:00:02,205 - Prepare to dive into the forefront 2 00:00:02,225 --> 00:00:05,525 of healthcare innovation at our 14th annual meeting coming 3 00:00:05,545 --> 00:00:06,645 up on April 8th 4 00:00:06,645 --> 00:00:10,765 through 11th at the Hyatt Regency in Chicago, with thousands 5 00:00:10,765 --> 00:00:13,965 of industry leaders converging over four dynamic days 6 00:00:13,985 --> 00:00:16,805 of discussions on crucial topics from health IT 7 00:00:17,185 --> 00:00:18,685 to executive leadership. 8 00:00:18,995 --> 00:00:21,325 It's where the future of healthcare takes shape. 9 00:00:21,865 --> 00:00:24,085 We can't wait to connect with you in person 10 00:00:24,305 --> 00:00:26,725 and engage in these important conversations. 11 00:00:27,795 --> 00:00:30,045 - Welcome to the Becker's Healthcare Podcast, made 12 00:00:30,045 --> 00:00:31,645 for the people who power US healthcare. 13 00:00:31,905 --> 00:00:33,205 I'm Molly Gamble at Becker's, 14 00:00:33,205 --> 00:00:34,725 and today I am sitting down with K Burke 15 00:00:34,725 --> 00:00:37,205 to learn more about the representation of nursing 16 00:00:37,425 --> 00:00:40,125 and informatics and leadership in the field. 17 00:00:40,825 --> 00:00:43,125 Kay is the Chief Nursing Informatics Officer 18 00:00:43,425 --> 00:00:45,725 for UCSF Health Informatics. 19 00:00:46,225 --> 00:00:47,685 Kay, welcome to the podcast. Thanks 20 00:00:47,685 --> 00:00:48,925 so much for being my guest. 21 00:00:49,185 --> 00:00:51,685 How are you today? And where does podcast find you? 22 00:00:53,095 --> 00:00:54,155 - Hi, Molly. Thanks so much 23 00:00:54,415 --> 00:00:56,035 for inviting me to be your guest. 24 00:00:56,515 --> 00:00:57,675 I am doing fabulous. 25 00:00:57,865 --> 00:01:01,195 It's, it's a rare 70 degree day in San Francisco, 26 00:01:01,375 --> 00:01:02,875 and so I am looking forward 27 00:01:02,875 --> 00:01:04,755 to a beautiful, relaxing weekend. 28 00:01:05,015 --> 00:01:06,015 How are you? 29 00:01:06,455 --> 00:01:07,555 - I'm doing well. Uh, 30 00:01:07,615 --> 00:01:09,795 we are about 30 degrees different here in Chicago. 31 00:01:10,455 --> 00:01:12,755 Um, but , you know, we've had a very mild winter, 32 00:01:12,815 --> 00:01:14,075 so I can't complain now. 33 00:01:14,255 --> 00:01:17,715 Do you know what I mean? Um, yeah, we've had it pretty good. 34 00:01:18,865 --> 00:01:20,445 You know, you mentioned San Francisco. 35 00:01:20,445 --> 00:01:22,365 For listeners who might be less familiar 36 00:01:22,635 --> 00:01:25,165 with UCSF Health Informatics, 37 00:01:25,265 --> 00:01:28,885 can you share a few key facts about the organization just 38 00:01:28,885 --> 00:01:31,365 to help our listeners better reacquaint themselves? 39 00:01:32,155 --> 00:01:33,155 Yeah, 40 00:01:34,255 --> 00:01:35,255 - Absolutely. 41 00:01:35,255 --> 00:01:38,375 So, I'll, I'll start with sort of UCSF as an organization, 42 00:01:38,435 --> 00:01:41,255 and then I'll delve into our informatics department. 43 00:01:41,475 --> 00:01:45,375 Um, so UCSF, which I always assume everyone knows, stands 44 00:01:45,475 --> 00:01:47,975 for the University of California San Francisco, 45 00:01:47,975 --> 00:01:50,255 but just in case, wanted to kind of spell that out. 46 00:01:50,395 --> 00:01:53,055 Um, so we're an academic health system. 47 00:01:53,195 --> 00:01:54,895 We serve the Greater Bay Area 48 00:01:55,355 --> 00:02:00,055 and, uh, UCSF has, uh, three core mission areas, um, 49 00:02:00,055 --> 00:02:01,175 that includes health 50 00:02:01,235 --> 00:02:03,255 or the clinical care delivery arm, which is 51 00:02:03,255 --> 00:02:06,535 where I'm housed, uh, as well as research and education. 52 00:02:06,635 --> 00:02:09,495 So we as an organization are really committed to ensuring 53 00:02:09,495 --> 00:02:12,495 that those are all interconnected and aligned. 54 00:02:12,525 --> 00:02:14,495 It's really part of who we are and what we do. 55 00:02:14,635 --> 00:02:18,575 And, uh, we have several campuses across, um, San Francisco, 56 00:02:18,675 --> 00:02:20,775 and we actually are expanding our 57 00:02:20,775 --> 00:02:22,055 footprint, which is really exciting. 58 00:02:22,155 --> 00:02:24,695 We just acquire two amazing community hospitals. 59 00:02:24,715 --> 00:02:26,895 So that's, that's a bit about UCSF 60 00:02:26,995 --> 00:02:30,495 and, uh, health informatics is, it's really kind 61 00:02:30,495 --> 00:02:33,295 of a key function, I think, within the health system. 62 00:02:33,635 --> 00:02:36,655 Um, we're actually part of information technology. 63 00:02:37,115 --> 00:02:39,015 Um, that's our division though we work really, 64 00:02:39,015 --> 00:02:41,175 really closely with, with operations 65 00:02:41,235 --> 00:02:42,575 and the clinical departments. 66 00:02:42,955 --> 00:02:45,575 And our portfolio has several verticals, one of which, 67 00:02:45,675 --> 00:02:48,375 of course is nursing informatics, which is what I oversee. 68 00:02:49,115 --> 00:02:51,975 Uh, we have a, an incredible team of informaticists. 69 00:02:52,315 --> 00:02:56,215 We, uh, work very closely with the technical analysts, uh, 70 00:02:56,235 --> 00:02:58,335 as well as, as I mentioned, our clinical colleagues 71 00:02:58,355 --> 00:03:00,005 and, you know, not just nurses, 72 00:03:00,265 --> 00:03:02,845 but, uh, nursing informatics supports, 73 00:03:03,325 --> 00:03:05,965 advanced practice providers, including nurse practitioners 74 00:03:06,705 --> 00:03:09,845 as well as allied health professionals such as pt, ot, 75 00:03:09,945 --> 00:03:13,045 you know, speech register, registered dieticians, 76 00:03:13,045 --> 00:03:14,205 social workers, and the like. 77 00:03:14,425 --> 00:03:17,165 Um, and, you know, given that all 78 00:03:17,325 --> 00:03:19,005 of these roles use digital tools 79 00:03:19,185 --> 00:03:21,645 and information systems to do their daily jobs 80 00:03:21,825 --> 00:03:24,005 and carry out their, you know, 81 00:03:24,245 --> 00:03:26,285 respective professional practice, they, 82 00:03:26,435 --> 00:03:28,405 they really require the support 83 00:03:28,985 --> 00:03:31,325 and service of informatics professionals. 84 00:03:31,385 --> 00:03:33,325 And we do a lot, you know, some, 85 00:03:33,755 --> 00:03:36,005 some describe informatics kind of as the bridge 86 00:03:36,075 --> 00:03:37,565 between clinicians and it, 87 00:03:37,825 --> 00:03:40,565 and we, we have a, a leg in both worlds. 88 00:03:40,745 --> 00:03:42,045 And, um, and 89 00:03:42,045 --> 00:03:44,725 because of this, we understand the clinical workflows 90 00:03:44,725 --> 00:03:47,645 and the problems that need, need solving, you know, whether 91 00:03:47,645 --> 00:03:50,045 that's an electronic health record design solution 92 00:03:50,065 --> 00:03:52,125 or, you know, user adoption 93 00:03:52,185 --> 00:03:55,445 or the implementation of, of large scale projects. 94 00:03:56,185 --> 00:03:57,885 And what we do is we help ensure that the, 95 00:03:57,945 --> 00:04:00,965 the IT application experts really have the requirements 96 00:04:00,965 --> 00:04:03,205 needed to, to build said solution. 97 00:04:03,585 --> 00:04:06,045 And so everyone on my team is an rn, you know, 98 00:04:06,045 --> 00:04:08,485 most are board certified in nursing informatics. 99 00:04:08,545 --> 00:04:10,885 And, uh, so yeah, that's, uh, that's our story. 100 00:04:12,215 --> 00:04:15,065 - Okay. I, you just covered that very concisely, 101 00:04:15,085 --> 00:04:18,105 but UCSF, I mean, when you talked about some of the, 102 00:04:19,045 --> 00:04:22,185 the three arms and then research being one of them, um, 103 00:04:22,725 --> 00:04:26,265 the research coming out of UCSF is, is such a long list 104 00:04:26,365 --> 00:04:28,145 of big milestones and discoveries. 105 00:04:28,265 --> 00:04:32,705 I, I think chronic pain is a condition stems from UCSF 106 00:04:33,025 --> 00:04:37,065 research, uh, so much advancements toward, uh, AIDS 107 00:04:37,125 --> 00:04:39,505 and treatment and identifying symptoms of aids. 108 00:04:39,925 --> 00:04:42,185 So, I mean, I encourage listeners if they're less familiar 109 00:04:42,405 --> 00:04:44,705 to, to check in, look into that 110 00:04:44,705 --> 00:04:47,345 because, um, you summarized it really well. 111 00:04:47,405 --> 00:04:50,145 Kay. But behind the scenes, I know that it's a, 112 00:04:50,145 --> 00:04:52,465 it's a really long roster of different achievements 113 00:04:52,465 --> 00:04:53,905 and milestones from your research. 114 00:04:55,865 --> 00:04:57,315 - Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. 115 00:04:57,635 --> 00:05:01,915 I, um, I myself am incredibly impressed by, 116 00:05:01,975 --> 00:05:06,035 and humbled by the body of research that comes out of UCSF, 117 00:05:06,615 --> 00:05:09,355 the funding that we have been able to achieve to 118 00:05:10,085 --> 00:05:11,955 perpetuate incredible research. 119 00:05:12,235 --> 00:05:13,635 I always say that, you know, 120 00:05:14,175 --> 00:05:16,635 it always feels like we're sort, you know, uh, 121 00:05:16,775 --> 00:05:18,115 curing cancer in the backyard. 122 00:05:18,695 --> 00:05:20,795 Uh, there are people that come from around the world 123 00:05:21,375 --> 00:05:24,635 to be part of clinical trials and receive treatment at UCSF. 124 00:05:24,655 --> 00:05:27,875 So I appreciate that, um, emphatic point that you made, 125 00:05:27,875 --> 00:05:29,435 because sometimes I, 126 00:05:29,555 --> 00:05:32,475 I undersell the research endeavors at UCSF, 127 00:05:32,495 --> 00:05:34,035 and, um, I do think it's, uh, 128 00:05:34,065 --> 00:05:35,875 it's worth noting. So thank you for saying that. 129 00:05:36,305 --> 00:05:38,715 - Yeah, and I, I wasn't implying underselling at all. 130 00:05:38,735 --> 00:05:40,675 It was more in recent conversations, 131 00:05:40,975 --> 00:05:42,315 and I, I even undersell just now. 132 00:05:42,315 --> 00:05:44,315 I mean, when I said advancements around treatment of aids, 133 00:05:44,395 --> 00:05:47,795 I mean, UCSF co-discovered aids, so, um, 134 00:05:47,865 --> 00:05:49,715 some landmark developments there. 135 00:05:49,815 --> 00:05:52,555 But, um, you know, Kay, I wanted to dig into 136 00:05:52,555 --> 00:05:55,555 and double click on your role with nursing and informatics. 137 00:05:55,745 --> 00:05:59,125 Nursing long been underrepresented in the field 138 00:05:59,185 --> 00:06:00,525 of healthcare informatics. 139 00:06:00,865 --> 00:06:02,685 And then you have nurses playing such a crucial 140 00:06:02,755 --> 00:06:03,805 role in patient care. 141 00:06:03,915 --> 00:06:06,125 They have so many valuable insights into healthcare 142 00:06:06,195 --> 00:06:09,605 processes that can go overlooked quite often in, 143 00:06:09,605 --> 00:06:10,765 in the development 144 00:06:10,765 --> 00:06:13,165 and implementation of informatics solutions. 145 00:06:14,185 --> 00:06:18,005 How have you seen this change, either at UCSF specifically, 146 00:06:18,185 --> 00:06:21,205 or if you take a step back in the industry at large? 147 00:06:23,645 --> 00:06:27,215 - Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a very interesting observation. 148 00:06:27,475 --> 00:06:29,255 Um, I certainly share it. 149 00:06:29,335 --> 00:06:31,015 I, I have seen this change over the years 150 00:06:31,755 --> 00:06:34,695 and, um, I mean, I'll share with you a little bit about my 151 00:06:35,255 --> 00:06:37,495 personal, um, journey in the field. 152 00:06:37,835 --> 00:06:42,055 Uh, so when I first got into informatics back in 2009, 153 00:06:42,785 --> 00:06:44,575 often there were CMIO roles, 154 00:06:44,995 --> 00:06:46,495 and in some cases, you know, 155 00:06:46,495 --> 00:06:49,255 additional medical informatics leaders like associates, 156 00:06:49,625 --> 00:06:52,295 CMIOs and directors of medical informatics, 157 00:06:52,555 --> 00:06:55,255 but rarely, if ever A-C-N-I-O. 158 00:06:55,315 --> 00:06:56,735 And this was the case when I started. 159 00:06:56,955 --> 00:06:59,055 And, uh, while I was on 160 00:06:59,715 --> 00:07:01,535 an incredible nursing informatics team, 161 00:07:01,585 --> 00:07:05,855 there was not A-C-N-I-O at the organization, uh, you know, 162 00:07:05,855 --> 00:07:08,375 doctors, nurses, pharmacists, we all worked 163 00:07:08,915 --> 00:07:11,655 on EHR implementation projects together, 164 00:07:12,435 --> 00:07:16,015 but the leaders were almost always positioned. 165 00:07:16,815 --> 00:07:18,675 So when I first became A-C-N-I-O myself, 166 00:07:18,695 --> 00:07:22,315 and this was in 2014, I was excited. 167 00:07:22,595 --> 00:07:25,075 I was glad that the organization had A-C-N-I-O role. 168 00:07:25,275 --> 00:07:26,875 I was thrilled to be afforded the 169 00:07:26,875 --> 00:07:28,235 opportunity to be in the role. 170 00:07:29,255 --> 00:07:31,835 Um, my role reported to the CMIO, 171 00:07:32,555 --> 00:07:35,695 and, you know, while he was an incredible partner, the, 172 00:07:35,715 --> 00:07:38,335 the org chart illustrated who's driving the 173 00:07:38,335 --> 00:07:39,375 bus, so to speak. 174 00:07:39,755 --> 00:07:41,215 And so therefore, to your point, 175 00:07:41,565 --> 00:07:44,535 nursing was underrepresented, not just in the field 176 00:07:44,555 --> 00:07:45,735 of healthcare informatics, 177 00:07:45,735 --> 00:07:48,815 but in decision making that impacted nurses themselves 178 00:07:49,425 --> 00:07:51,215 since there were not as many, if any, 179 00:07:51,215 --> 00:07:53,735 at all seats at the leadership table for nurses. 180 00:07:54,715 --> 00:07:58,735 Uh, so when I started here at UCSF, which was in 2017, 181 00:07:59,375 --> 00:08:01,895 I was hired as the inaugural CNIO. 182 00:08:02,155 --> 00:08:03,935 So there had never been A-C-N-I-O before. 183 00:08:04,635 --> 00:08:07,295 Um, and subsequently no recognized, you know, 184 00:08:07,295 --> 00:08:08,615 nursing informatics team. 185 00:08:09,475 --> 00:08:11,655 And it took a lot as it as it does, right, 186 00:08:11,675 --> 00:08:14,575 to build a program and a team, especially while also 187 00:08:15,455 --> 00:08:18,145 educating the organization about the value 188 00:08:18,165 --> 00:08:19,345 of nursing informatics. 189 00:08:20,125 --> 00:08:24,105 And it is tough to constantly try to demonstrate value 190 00:08:24,105 --> 00:08:26,545 of your role and your team's role 191 00:08:26,885 --> 00:08:30,025 and building business cases for additional positions 192 00:08:30,205 --> 00:08:32,185 and, you know, upskilling new hires 193 00:08:32,365 --> 00:08:34,585 and delivering on key priorities. 194 00:08:34,845 --> 00:08:36,705 Um, but I will say 195 00:08:37,285 --> 00:08:39,625 now we are well positioned in the organization 196 00:08:39,965 --> 00:08:40,985 to be at the table, right? 197 00:08:40,985 --> 00:08:44,105 To help formulate decisions and best practices 198 00:08:44,165 --> 00:08:45,905 and technology design 199 00:08:46,045 --> 00:08:48,465 and partner with nurse executives to ensure 200 00:08:48,495 --> 00:08:50,825 that our clinicians are well supported 201 00:08:50,825 --> 00:08:53,545 and have the right tools and workflows to, to do their jobs. 202 00:08:53,965 --> 00:08:55,605 Um, but I will say, 203 00:08:55,745 --> 00:08:58,285 I'm gonna just say a quick story, if that's okay, . 204 00:08:58,435 --> 00:09:01,245 Yeah, absolutely. It's actually, it's this torch 205 00:09:01,275 --> 00:09:03,765 that I carry often, um, externally. 206 00:09:04,025 --> 00:09:06,885 And, uh, so recently at a, at a conference, I spoke 207 00:09:06,885 --> 00:09:10,805 to an audience of about a hundred plus or minus, uh, CNOs 208 00:09:10,825 --> 00:09:13,325 and, and CE Chief nurse executive. 209 00:09:13,905 --> 00:09:17,235 And at one point I asked for a show of hands, I said, 210 00:09:17,335 --> 00:09:21,115 how many of you have A-C-M-I-O at your organization? 211 00:09:21,845 --> 00:09:23,905 And most raised their hands. Mm-Hmm, . 212 00:09:24,085 --> 00:09:26,785 And then I asked, you know, of you who raised your hands? 213 00:09:27,635 --> 00:09:30,575 How many of you also have A-C-N-I-O? 214 00:09:31,505 --> 00:09:34,765 And honestly, Molly most hands dropped. Mm. 215 00:09:34,905 --> 00:09:37,085 And then I charged them all. 216 00:09:37,285 --> 00:09:38,885 I said, it is very important 217 00:09:39,355 --> 00:09:41,045 that you advocate for this role. 218 00:09:41,605 --> 00:09:44,785 I mean, it is a matter of, of inequity at this point. 219 00:09:44,865 --> 00:09:47,225 I mean, at any organization, there are more nurses 220 00:09:47,325 --> 00:09:50,435 and allied health professionals than doctors, right? 221 00:09:50,655 --> 00:09:53,795 So then I said, inequitable representation, 222 00:09:54,455 --> 00:09:58,095 if not challenged by you, is perpetuated by you. 223 00:09:58,195 --> 00:09:59,535 Mm-Hmm, . Mm-hmm. . And there was 224 00:09:59,535 --> 00:10:01,095 like, certainly discomfort . 225 00:10:01,555 --> 00:10:03,535 But, you know, at the end of, at the end of the conference, 226 00:10:03,535 --> 00:10:05,975 there was a line out the door, you know, of CNEs 227 00:10:05,975 --> 00:10:08,735 and CNOs who were, you know, wanting to talk to me about, 228 00:10:09,605 --> 00:10:12,255 like how to justify the, you know, 229 00:10:12,515 --> 00:10:14,695 how do you build the business case of, you know, 230 00:10:14,695 --> 00:10:16,495 having A-C-N-I-O at your organization? 231 00:10:16,675 --> 00:10:18,095 Mm-Hmm, . So, um, 232 00:10:18,875 --> 00:10:21,215 and I actually did this one other quick, quick story. 233 00:10:21,735 --> 00:10:23,615 I was actually a summit hosted by a vendor. 234 00:10:23,915 --> 00:10:26,615 And, you know, the, the opening keynote was a CEO. 235 00:10:26,675 --> 00:10:31,455 And he said he proudly introduced the first new ever CMIO. 236 00:10:31,915 --> 00:10:33,675 So imagine what I did. 237 00:10:33,995 --> 00:10:35,195 I caught him at the coffee break, 238 00:10:35,255 --> 00:10:39,355 and I was like, congratulations for hiring A-C-M-I-O. 239 00:10:39,355 --> 00:10:42,075 That's great. And I was like, so where's your CNIO? 240 00:10:43,335 --> 00:10:46,515 And yes, rhetorical for sure, our little, little flippant, 241 00:10:46,515 --> 00:10:48,715 but catch my draft. 242 00:10:48,735 --> 00:10:51,555 It just, it doesn't, just doesn't make sense to me. 243 00:10:51,775 --> 00:10:55,885 You know? So, you know, it's, it's an ongoing, um, 244 00:10:57,365 --> 00:11:00,205 advocacy, I won't say battle 'cause 'cause it's not a fight. 245 00:11:00,405 --> 00:11:04,015 I mean, I, I will say that, you know, partnerships 246 00:11:04,015 --> 00:11:06,895 with medical informatics professionals, it's very key. 247 00:11:06,965 --> 00:11:08,855 It's not an us and them, it's not Mm-Hmm. 248 00:11:08,895 --> 00:11:11,215 binary, um, you know, 249 00:11:11,215 --> 00:11:12,415 effective informatics teams, 250 00:11:12,785 --> 00:11:15,855 teams rely on collaborative work and, and relationships. 251 00:11:16,115 --> 00:11:20,055 Um, it just, uh, continues to be, um, 252 00:11:21,325 --> 00:11:25,775 this journey that does not yet have, 253 00:11:26,275 --> 00:11:27,735 uh, an end point. 254 00:11:28,315 --> 00:11:31,335 But I think we c nios, nursing informatics professionals, 255 00:11:31,515 --> 00:11:33,415 nurses themselves are all kind 256 00:11:33,415 --> 00:11:34,855 of continuing to march the march. 257 00:11:34,995 --> 00:11:36,895 So we'll get there. . 258 00:11:38,165 --> 00:11:39,925 - I think that's such an important perspective. Kay. 259 00:11:39,985 --> 00:11:41,485 You know, I think health systems 260 00:11:41,505 --> 00:11:44,645 and hospitals, you saw, I mean, decades ago, 261 00:11:44,785 --> 00:11:47,805 it was typically a hospital administrator right at the 262 00:11:47,805 --> 00:11:48,845 top of the organization. 263 00:11:49,205 --> 00:11:50,565 A lot of this has changed. Now, 264 00:11:50,905 --> 00:11:54,205 the organizational structures and titles and positions, 265 00:11:54,785 --> 00:11:56,845 and there's some that are fixtures, I think they're out, 266 00:11:56,845 --> 00:11:59,045 they're, they're given at most organizations, 267 00:11:59,075 --> 00:12:01,565 what I've always been more intrigued by is, 268 00:12:01,565 --> 00:12:04,005 what you just touched on, is these roles that are emerging. 269 00:12:04,625 --> 00:12:07,325 Um, some organizations, it starts off with just a few 270 00:12:07,825 --> 00:12:09,245 and what, whatever the title may be, 271 00:12:09,825 --> 00:12:13,805 but it's this sweet spot of time where it's not yet a given, 272 00:12:13,915 --> 00:12:15,125 it's not yet widespread. 273 00:12:15,505 --> 00:12:17,805 And I think, like you just indicated, there's a lot 274 00:12:17,805 --> 00:12:19,725 of hard work there, um, in terms 275 00:12:19,825 --> 00:12:24,245 of helping organizations move forward, progress and, 276 00:12:24,245 --> 00:12:26,605 and better have representation for some really, 277 00:12:26,665 --> 00:12:29,405 really key professionals in their organizations. 278 00:12:30,025 --> 00:12:31,685 Um, and it also, like you said, it takes, 279 00:12:31,995 --> 00:12:34,605 there's soft skills there that come up, whether it's, 280 00:12:34,605 --> 00:12:36,005 you know, trying to help people 281 00:12:36,065 --> 00:12:38,805 and bring them along in a way that isn't shaming them 282 00:12:38,865 --> 00:12:40,285 or isn't, you know, tt 283 00:12:40,425 --> 00:12:43,565 but helping them see that congratulations, 284 00:12:43,625 --> 00:12:45,565 you have established the CMIO role. 285 00:12:45,565 --> 00:12:48,845 That is a huge accomplishment now , 286 00:12:49,385 --> 00:12:50,405 you know, and keep it moving. 287 00:12:50,415 --> 00:12:51,445 Right, . Yeah. 288 00:12:51,625 --> 00:12:53,965 So I think it, it's really helpful that you touched on that. 289 00:12:54,895 --> 00:12:57,165 Let's talk about leadership in, in your position. 290 00:12:57,825 --> 00:13:01,845 I'm curious what you consider the special sauce, so to say. 291 00:13:01,905 --> 00:13:05,085 Uh, I use that term because sometimes when I ask about 292 00:13:05,085 --> 00:13:08,445 leadership, I, I'm striving to understand the traits 293 00:13:08,445 --> 00:13:10,525 beyond those universally important ones. 294 00:13:10,665 --> 00:13:12,925 You know, communication skills, listening, integrity. 295 00:13:13,585 --> 00:13:15,325 Um, what leadership traits 296 00:13:15,325 --> 00:13:19,005 or qualifications do you, are you really craving 297 00:13:19,065 --> 00:13:22,165 and do you think really hold exceptional significance in 298 00:13:22,165 --> 00:13:23,565 this position as CNIO? 299 00:13:25,685 --> 00:13:28,695 - Yeah, I mean, I, I love the special sauce term 300 00:13:29,075 --> 00:13:31,935 as an aside, despite being an SF for about six years, 301 00:13:32,135 --> 00:13:34,135 I am a newly minted in and out fan, 302 00:13:34,275 --> 00:13:36,735 and their special sauce is really worth pipe . 303 00:13:37,015 --> 00:13:39,175 - I, I, you put that together. Funny 304 00:13:39,895 --> 00:13:40,895 - . 305 00:13:40,895 --> 00:13:42,215 Um, but leadership is special sauce. 306 00:13:42,245 --> 00:13:44,695 It's, it is, I mean, all the things that you mentioned, it's 307 00:13:45,375 --> 00:13:48,375 communication and, you know, integrity, authenticity. 308 00:13:49,075 --> 00:13:51,415 Um, but I feel like a key characteristic 309 00:13:51,415 --> 00:13:55,055 of a successful informatics executive is really change 310 00:13:55,055 --> 00:13:57,135 management and relationship building. 311 00:13:57,795 --> 00:14:01,055 You know, like there's this proliferation of technology 312 00:14:01,235 --> 00:14:03,815 and digital tools in the clinical environment, 313 00:14:04,075 --> 00:14:05,975 and there's often resistance, 314 00:14:05,995 --> 00:14:08,055 or in some cases, fear, to be honest with you. 315 00:14:08,155 --> 00:14:10,815 And nurses in particular don't want 316 00:14:10,835 --> 00:14:12,295 to be technology experts. 317 00:14:12,605 --> 00:14:14,255 It's not what they went to nursing school for. 318 00:14:14,645 --> 00:14:17,775 They wanna take care of patients and new ways 319 00:14:17,875 --> 00:14:21,135 or different ways of using technology or innovating to do. 320 00:14:21,135 --> 00:14:25,095 So. It's, it's not always popular, right? 321 00:14:25,285 --> 00:14:27,935 It's, it's, it's really incredibly important 322 00:14:27,935 --> 00:14:28,975 to like empower nurses 323 00:14:29,075 --> 00:14:31,975 and nurse leaders to be part of, of change. 324 00:14:32,835 --> 00:14:35,495 And, um, so trust is, I think of, you know, 325 00:14:35,495 --> 00:14:37,095 paramount importance 326 00:14:37,095 --> 00:14:39,535 and building those trusting relationships is not 327 00:14:39,535 --> 00:14:41,055 always an easy feat. 328 00:14:41,595 --> 00:14:44,535 Um, it's funny, I know it sounds cheesy, 329 00:14:44,955 --> 00:14:47,975 but I often start presentations with this quote from, 330 00:14:48,315 --> 00:14:49,655 you know, Angela McBride. 331 00:14:49,675 --> 00:14:52,485 And it's, it talks about, it says something like, 332 00:14:52,915 --> 00:14:55,725 there's no aspect of nursing that will be untouched 333 00:14:55,785 --> 00:14:59,325 by the informatics revolution that is in progress. 334 00:14:59,905 --> 00:15:02,125 But I like it because people need 335 00:15:02,125 --> 00:15:03,525 to be part of a revolution. 336 00:15:03,785 --> 00:15:06,125 You know, they need to have avenues to contribute 337 00:15:06,545 --> 00:15:08,325 to digital transformation. 338 00:15:08,385 --> 00:15:10,125 And if you're, if you're A-C-N-I-O 339 00:15:10,125 --> 00:15:13,045 or a nursing informatics, you know, professional, you need 340 00:15:13,045 --> 00:15:16,285 to, you need to help create those inroads. 341 00:15:16,945 --> 00:15:19,885 And so that's why I think number one is change management 342 00:15:19,905 --> 00:15:21,085 and that relationship building 343 00:15:21,385 --> 00:15:23,045 and being trustworthy, that's 344 00:15:23,565 --> 00:15:26,205 probably the most critical secret sauce. 345 00:15:26,585 --> 00:15:29,245 Um, for CNI os, I'd say on the heels of 346 00:15:29,245 --> 00:15:30,925 that is, is strategy. 347 00:15:31,465 --> 00:15:35,285 So like, I'm also, often in my role, I'm one step ahead 348 00:15:35,285 --> 00:15:39,325 of the conversation, so I'm thinking proactively about the 349 00:15:39,325 --> 00:15:41,445 problems I'm hearing and the solutions 350 00:15:41,445 --> 00:15:42,685 that I can anticipate. 351 00:15:43,305 --> 00:15:46,285 You know, so like this informatics is a bridge, right? 352 00:15:46,285 --> 00:15:47,285 Between clinicians 353 00:15:47,465 --> 00:15:51,355 and it, so when we hear from clinicians 354 00:15:51,355 --> 00:15:53,645 or operations that, you know, 355 00:15:53,755 --> 00:15:55,445 fill in the blank is an issue, right? 356 00:15:55,585 --> 00:15:58,565 Uh, let's say an unfavorable quality trend 357 00:15:58,745 --> 00:16:01,005 or a patient safety issue, 358 00:16:01,105 --> 00:16:03,565 or throughput, bottleneck, 359 00:16:03,925 --> 00:16:06,285 whatever you're hearing in different committees and councils 360 00:16:06,365 --> 00:16:09,845 and forums, and then we can start to think through potential 361 00:16:10,765 --> 00:16:14,005 interventions that might be needed to solve for, you know, 362 00:16:14,905 --> 00:16:16,105 X problem that you just heard. 363 00:16:16,205 --> 00:16:19,985 And, and so I think being strategic, it, it's not unique to 364 00:16:20,625 --> 00:16:21,815 successful leaders right? 365 00:16:21,815 --> 00:16:22,975 Outside of informatics, 366 00:16:22,975 --> 00:16:25,535 but I do think it's particularly 367 00:16:26,125 --> 00:16:28,415 important in A-C-N-I-O role. 368 00:16:28,515 --> 00:16:30,705 So I would say two secret sauces. 369 00:16:31,205 --> 00:16:32,985 One, the change management and relationship building, 370 00:16:33,005 --> 00:16:35,585 and then probably, you know, being proactive 371 00:16:35,585 --> 00:16:36,945 and strategic. Mm-Hmm. 372 00:16:36,985 --> 00:16:39,105 - , what I'm also hearing there is when you 373 00:16:39,105 --> 00:16:40,425 talked about the, the, 374 00:16:40,425 --> 00:16:43,385 that great quote about the revolution, helping, 375 00:16:43,655 --> 00:16:48,545 helping your team be proactive in how technology can fit in. 376 00:16:48,545 --> 00:16:51,585 And they are more in the driver's seat of making those calls 377 00:16:51,725 --> 00:16:54,785 and connecting those dots versus simply reacting, right? 378 00:16:55,465 --> 00:16:58,345 I think so much of the anxiety around AI is 379 00:16:58,345 --> 00:17:02,305 that it's gonna be put to use in ways that will surprise us, 380 00:17:02,485 --> 00:17:05,425 or stun us or disappoint us, and we'll have to go back and, 381 00:17:06,365 --> 00:17:08,785 and fix it and admit we might have been wrong. 382 00:17:08,925 --> 00:17:10,985 But I think, Kay, what I'm picking up on you saying is 383 00:17:10,985 --> 00:17:13,185 that if people are follow along with you 384 00:17:13,685 --> 00:17:16,905 and thinking ahead in a similar way, they might be able 385 00:17:16,905 --> 00:17:20,305 to better have ideas about how technology and informatics 386 00:17:20,305 --> 00:17:24,345 and tools and AI can be adopted versus 387 00:17:24,345 --> 00:17:26,185 simply reacting to them after the fact. 388 00:17:26,285 --> 00:17:27,785 Is that, is that a fair read on things? 389 00:17:29,375 --> 00:17:31,855 - Absolutely. I mean, I love how you said dot connecting 390 00:17:31,855 --> 00:17:33,055 because, uh, I, I've heard 391 00:17:33,055 --> 00:17:36,015 that informaticists are expert dot connectors. 392 00:17:36,515 --> 00:17:39,935 Um, in fact, my CMIO, um, colleague 393 00:17:40,235 --> 00:17:44,335 and very, very close trusted partner, uh, at UCSF, 394 00:17:44,335 --> 00:17:46,895 he always says that we pour the coffee , 395 00:17:47,355 --> 00:17:49,175 so dot connecting coffee pours. 396 00:17:49,445 --> 00:17:53,405 I think, um, it's also no one in a forum of 397 00:17:55,475 --> 00:17:58,635 clinical or operational leaders are asking 398 00:17:58,735 --> 00:18:00,435 for something like ai, right? 399 00:18:00,625 --> 00:18:03,395 There's, there's a need to demystify 400 00:18:04,355 --> 00:18:06,275 a capability such as ai. 401 00:18:06,415 --> 00:18:07,995 So when you're, as I was saying, 402 00:18:08,075 --> 00:18:09,235 you're hearing these problems 403 00:18:10,135 --> 00:18:12,555 and then you try to think about 404 00:18:12,775 --> 00:18:17,565 how you deliver solutions using, you know, a myriad 405 00:18:17,565 --> 00:18:19,205 of capabilities including ai. 406 00:18:19,545 --> 00:18:22,765 And so then when you come back with a suggested 407 00:18:22,765 --> 00:18:23,845 or recommended solution, 408 00:18:23,845 --> 00:18:25,285 and it happens to be ai, 409 00:18:26,875 --> 00:18:29,135 you get the buy-in, right? 410 00:18:29,135 --> 00:18:32,175 Because it's not like, okay, I'm gonna push AI 411 00:18:32,175 --> 00:18:33,375 or deliver AI on you. 412 00:18:33,635 --> 00:18:34,895 Mm. It's more I heard you 413 00:18:35,075 --> 00:18:36,415 mm-Hmm, , I heard what you said. 414 00:18:36,575 --> 00:18:39,975 I know this is a problem. This is a possible tool in the 415 00:18:39,975 --> 00:18:40,975 toolkit to solve your problem. 416 00:18:41,195 --> 00:18:43,455 It happens to be ai, you know what I mean? 417 00:18:43,595 --> 00:18:46,175 We, we ensure that there is, you know, 418 00:18:46,175 --> 00:18:48,615 ethical trustworthiness when we deliver ai. 419 00:18:48,675 --> 00:18:52,535 And it's sort of like just being able to help bring along 420 00:18:53,125 --> 00:18:57,555 your, um, your leaders at a healthcare institution, 421 00:18:58,095 --> 00:18:59,235 uh, and, and kind 422 00:18:59,235 --> 00:19:01,075 of essentially educating them along 423 00:19:01,095 --> 00:19:02,275 the way. Mm-Hmm. . 424 00:19:02,695 --> 00:19:03,695 - Mm-Hmm. - . 425 00:19:04,305 --> 00:19:07,475 - Okay. It's been so interesting catching up with you. 426 00:19:07,535 --> 00:19:09,235 And I, I really appreciate these glimpses 427 00:19:09,235 --> 00:19:10,355 into your work and your role. 428 00:19:10,855 --> 00:19:12,795 Do you have any closing thoughts for our listeners 429 00:19:12,795 --> 00:19:15,035 or a message you'd like to leave them with as we wind down? 430 00:19:17,795 --> 00:19:19,575 - Uh, yes. I just wanna say one thing. 431 00:19:19,695 --> 00:19:22,295 'cause I, I often share this at the closing of, 432 00:19:22,395 --> 00:19:25,575 of various kind of presentations with, certainly 433 00:19:25,795 --> 00:19:28,935 as I mentioned, informatics, the way 434 00:19:28,935 --> 00:19:31,575 that healthcare is digitally transforming 435 00:19:32,285 --> 00:19:33,455 this environment requires 436 00:19:33,455 --> 00:19:35,935 that we have nursing informatics professionals and teams 437 00:19:36,115 --> 00:19:38,575 and structures and roles like mine. 438 00:19:39,075 --> 00:19:40,695 But it also means that in addition 439 00:19:40,695 --> 00:19:42,815 to having nursing informatics leaders 440 00:19:43,075 --> 00:19:45,655 and specialists, we really need 441 00:19:45,655 --> 00:19:48,415 to start thinking about building out informatics 442 00:19:48,415 --> 00:19:52,895 competencies at the bedside to the professional nurse. 443 00:19:53,165 --> 00:19:56,055 Like, we need to embed informatics principles in 444 00:19:56,445 --> 00:19:59,135 undergraduate programs and graduate education. 445 00:19:59,325 --> 00:20:02,895 Like we need to create fellowships or champion programs, 446 00:20:02,915 --> 00:20:05,455 or whatever you call it, you know, communities of practice 447 00:20:05,595 --> 00:20:09,655 and development opportunities to understand informatics. 448 00:20:09,655 --> 00:20:11,375 Like it's not just about checking me, 449 00:20:11,855 --> 00:20:14,215 I have A-C-N-I-O at my institution box. 450 00:20:15,085 --> 00:20:16,575 It's, it's really about educating 451 00:20:16,575 --> 00:20:18,495 and enculturating every single clinician 452 00:20:18,555 --> 00:20:21,415 who touches a patient to be part of this sort of, 453 00:20:21,955 --> 00:20:24,345 you know, new world order. 454 00:20:24,685 --> 00:20:26,665 Mm-Hmm. of, you know, the future of healthcare 455 00:20:26,885 --> 00:20:28,305 and, um, the revolution, 456 00:20:28,405 --> 00:20:29,945 if you will, Mm-Hmm, . 457 00:20:29,945 --> 00:20:32,785 So I do think it's more than just having nursing informatics 458 00:20:32,785 --> 00:20:35,705 as a team or as you know, as roles, it's really kind 459 00:20:35,705 --> 00:20:38,465 of infusing informatics competencies at all levels 460 00:20:38,485 --> 00:20:40,105 of professional practice. 461 00:20:41,335 --> 00:20:43,195 - That's a, that's a great note to add end on. 462 00:20:43,495 --> 00:20:45,115 And I know that'll take the cooperation 463 00:20:45,115 --> 00:20:47,115 and collaboration of numerous stakeholders. 464 00:20:47,225 --> 00:20:49,885 You just hit on a few of them with higher education and, 465 00:20:49,885 --> 00:20:51,165 and different training programs, 466 00:20:51,265 --> 00:20:54,405 but a, a really important idea to close with. 467 00:20:54,935 --> 00:20:58,765 - Great. - Kay, thank you so much for being our guest. 468 00:20:58,885 --> 00:21:00,325 I hope we can catch up again soon. 469 00:21:00,595 --> 00:21:03,845 This has been Kay Burke, CNIO 470 00:21:03,845 --> 00:21:06,205 with UCSF health informatics. 471 00:21:06,265 --> 00:21:08,325 Kay. I just wish you continued success in your role 472 00:21:08,985 --> 00:21:11,845 and keep up the good fight with expanding 473 00:21:12,475 --> 00:21:14,485 CNIs at health systems across the us. 474 00:21:14,645 --> 00:21:15,805 I know it sounds like you're putting 475 00:21:15,845 --> 00:21:16,965 a lot of effort into that. 476 00:21:17,105 --> 00:21:18,925 And, uh, I hope you will continue 477 00:21:18,925 --> 00:21:20,125 and others will join you in that effort too. 478 00:21:20,915 --> 00:21:23,045 - Well, thanks, Molly. This has been super enjoyable. 479 00:21:23,125 --> 00:21:25,845 I really appreciate the invitation to join you this morning. 480 00:21:26,205 --> 00:21:27,685 - Likewise. Thank you so much. Kay. 481 00:21:28,185 --> 00:21:29,725 - Thanks. Have a great day. Bye.